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dcajet
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UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:19 pm

The US-Argentina market goes from strength to strength. Following the upgauges announced by AA and DL, plus the recenlty introduced COR-MIA on AR, UA announced it is upgauging the IAH-EZE-IAH route to the 772, sCO config, 50J/217Y+/Y, effective Sept 7. Currently the route is flown with the 789, March-May on the 763, May-Sept on the 788 and then the 772 with no end date.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Malayil
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:59 pm

Would definitely like to see UA back to EZE from EWR.
 
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ua900
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:06 pm

Nice move on UAs part.
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jasoncrh
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:07 pm

I remember back in the day when they had 777 to ORD and MIA and a 763 to JFK...... plus the daily tag to MVD. This was in 1999. Memories...
 
dcajet
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:15 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 3):
I remember back in the day when they had 777 to ORD and MIA and a 763 to JFK...... plus the daily tag to MVD. This was in 1999. Memories...

Those were the days when UA reigned supreme @ EZE - the 90s. Having inherited PA's huge frequent flyer base in Argentina, they were the #1 carrier between the two countries. Bankruptcy and a lack of focus in the region did away with their leadership and AA is now the undisputed leader - followed by AR and DL, leaving UA last. Better times ahead!
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:08 pm

Its more seats yes, but its a product downgrade.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
dcajet
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:44 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
Its more seats yes, but its a product downgrade.

How so? The biz class seats are exactly the same, and the back of the bus is, well, United. If you refer to the 777 being an older plane, well yes, but UA's 787s are nothing to write home about. Their innovation factor in the cabins is close to zero, save for the windows and cabin pressure, but that is not something United had anything to do with.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
AF022
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:36 am

How is the economy of Argentina doing? Things are very bad in Bresil but i haven't heard much about Argentina. I would have thought currency devaluation would have hurt traffic.
 
tpaewr
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:15 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 6):
787s are nothing to write home about. Their innovation factor in the cabins is close to zero, save for the windows and cabin pressure, but that is not something United had anything to do with.

We all know a new lay out is in the works. Would you rather have the even worse cabin premerger UA was still installing only a few years ago? Cause for everyone but the few in F this even in a vintage CO 777 is vastly better experience.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:42 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 7):
How is the economy of Argentina doing? Things are very bad in Bresil but i haven't heard much about Argentina. I would have thought currency devaluation would have hurt traffic.

Slowly but surely improving as the government seems to be serious about its economic policies and relationship with the rest of the world.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:36 am

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 3):

I remember back in the day when they had 777 to ORD and MIA and a 763 to JFK...... plus the daily tag to MVD. This was in 1999. Memories...

UA was flying ORD-EZE well into the 2000s as well. I remember it being flown around 2005 or so.
 
jasoncrh
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:04 pm

They started and stopped it for awhile, before ultimately terminating it completely.

It first went away in the fall after 9/11.

They brought it back sometime in late 2004 and it was intended then to go daily nonstop year round.

By June/ July 2005 they stopped it again and said they were just goint to fly it seasonally - during the southern hemisphere summer/ northern
hemisphere winter.

They started it again sometime in December 2005.

It was gone for good and never came back by June/ July 2006.

AA tried ORD - EZE during the winter 2007-2008 and tried it for one season. It never came back.

There's sadly something to be learned here.

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 10):
UA was flying ORD-EZE well into the 2000s as well. I remember it being flown around 2005 or so.
 
jasoncrh
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:07 pm

Not really.

I lived in Buenos Aires then. even though UA had those three flights, AA still was supreme - 2x daily to MIA and a JFK flight.
People knew about UA, but it always played second fiddle. UA in MIA was a shadow of what AA was, so UA's flight did not
have the breadth of connections available in MIA that the AA flights did. and AA had a bigger network at JFK for connections
(though UA did try with mainline connections at JFK briefly to PHL and to BOS, both of which were duds).
The ORD flight was an interesting choice, and I remember when they upgauged to a 777 from a 767. Empty - I took it many
times and definitely enjoyed many rows to myself.

UA tried hard for many years in Argentina and still has a presence. But AA always reigned supreme. At least when I was there from
1999-2001.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 4):
Those were the days when UA reigned supreme @ EZE - the 90s. Having inherited PA's huge frequent flyer base in Argentina, they were the #1 carrier between the two countries. Bankruptcy and a lack of focus in the region did away with their leadership and AA is now the undisputed leader - followed by AR and DL, leaving UA last. Better times ahead!
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:09 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 7):
I would have thought currency devaluation would have hurt traffic.

It is probably mostly US point of sale so perhaps the devalued currency is driving more US tourism southbound.
 
klwright69
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:35 pm

Will this plane be a CO plane with business first, or a legacy UA plane with global first?
I wish they would bring back EWR-EZE. Isn't Aerolineas Argentinas dropping JFK-EZE?
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:51 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):
Isn't Aerolineas Argentinas dropping JFK-EZE?

I'll be having dinner tonight with a good friend of mine who is an AR A330 FO. I was planning on asking him about the cuts that had recently been announced.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:52 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):

Will this plane be a CO plane with business first, or a legacy UA plane with global first?

Answer is already in the first post.
 
VC10er
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:19 pm

I recall the tag to Montevideo from EZE. I did it once. Those were better days. United from JFK to GRU, stay on board then hop over to GIG, then JFK to EZE, stay on plane then hop over to Montevideo. I read that there were never many aboard that took that hop, but it was a nice dot on legacy United's route map!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 17):
I recall the tag to Montevideo from EZE. I did it once. Those were better days. United from JFK to GRU, stay on board then hop over to GIG, then JFK to EZE, stay on plane then hop over to Montevideo. I read that there were never many aboard that took that hop, but it was a nice dot on legacy United's route map!

Now you can arrive at GRU then hop onto Azul and land directly at SDU, avoiding most of that horrific traffic that plagues BR-101 highway. I'd consider that a plus.

The new route approach of UA seems to suggest that a 3-4x weekly IAH-MVD on 2-class 763 is't totally out of the question (but that's heavily dependent on whether there's any demand at all outside MIA)
 
Freshside3
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:00 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):
The new route approach of UA seems to suggest that a 3-4x weekly IAH-MVD on 2-class 763 is't totally out of the question (but that's heavily dependent on whether there's any demand at all outside MIA)

Good question. NYC probably has some demand for Uruguay.....but where else in the US?? I don't think there's any local market from IAH.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:04 pm

MVD is a tiny market so I don't expect either a tag-on or a non-stop from IAH in the foreseeable future.
 
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AA777223
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:11 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):

Its more seats yes, but its a product downgrade.

I would respectfully disagree. The J product is the same, and Y product is the same. The difference is the tight nine abreast will now be replaced by the roomy nine abreast on the 777. I see this as nothing but good.
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a380787
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 19):

Good question. NYC probably has some demand for Uruguay.....but where else in the US?? I don't think there's any local market from IAH.
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 20):

MVD is a tiny market so I don't expect either a tag-on or a non-stop from IAH in the foreseeable future.

There's really no IAH to any real deep south american local market, sans GIG. UA simply has to deal with the assets they have - IAH and EWR, neither of which can remotely rival MIA/ATL.

For the foreseeable future, the deep LatAm routes will all come from IAH, no matter how yucky that sounds. Short of a management change, I don't feel that UA wants to launch tag routes ever again.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:43 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 22):
Short of a management change, I don't feel that UA wants to launch tag routes ever again.


International tags are a dying breed, no management change is going to alter that course.

*This includes NRT beyond flights which arguably not tags, if we take those out the number of tags remaining drops considerably.

[Edited 2016-03-22 08:44:15]
 
a380787
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:04 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 23):

Thanks for the list. I have trouble coming up with the 9 in your list. How many of those are part of Air Mike ?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 24):
Thanks for the list. I have trouble coming up with the 9 in your list. How many of those are part of Air Mike ?

I excluded 737s to get rid of the GUM operation and island hopper. The 9 is really "4.5" since this is departures and not round trips so the ones I can think of that operated were:

KWI-BAH
NRT-SIN
HKG-SIN (moved back to 777)

Then I forgot to exclude the Guam 777 that does HNL-GUM-NRT so those are the extras. In reality then there are just the 3 not 5ish as indicated.
 
airplanedaj
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 23):

What are AA's two routes? I'm guessing its a single tag that turns around (USA-ABC-DEF-ABC-USA)
 
a380787
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Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:59 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 25):
I excluded 737s to get rid of the GUM operation and island hopper. The 9 is really "4.5" since this is departures and not round trips so the ones I can think of that operated were:

KWI-BAH
NRT-SIN
HKG-SIN (moved back to 777)

Then I forgot to exclude the Guam 777 that does HNL-GUM-NRT so those are the extras. In reality then there are just the 3 not 5ish as indicated.

So if I'm reading your list correctly, the only WB thing left after all announced changes will be HKG-SIN ?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:13 pm

Quoting airplanedaj (Reply 26):
What are AA's two routes? I'm guessing its a single tag that turns around (USA-ABC-DEF-ABC-USA)

VVI-LPB

Quoting a380787 (Reply 27):
So if I'm reading your list correctly, the only WB thing left after all announced changes will be HKG-SIN ?

Yes, at this point that looks correct.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4708
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:04 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 12):

Not really.

I lived in Buenos Aires then. even though UA had those three flights, AA still was supreme - 2x daily to MIA and a JFK flight.
People knew about UA, but it always played second fiddle. UA in MIA was a shadow of what AA was, so UA's flight did not
have the breadth of connections available in MIA that the AA flights did. and AA had a bigger network at JFK for connections
(though UA did try with mainline connections at JFK briefly to PHL and to BOS, both of which were duds).
The ORD flight was an interesting choice, and I remember when they upgauged to a 777 from a 767. Empty - I took it many
times and definitely enjoyed many rows to myself.

UA tried hard for many years in Argentina and still has a presence. But AA always reigned supreme. At least when I was there from
1999-2001.

UA's golden years in Argentina were 1992-1997. It was in 1996 when AA really started its push to be #1.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
UA444
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 8):
with.

We all know a new lay out is in the works. Would you rather have the even worse cabin premerger UA was still installing only a few years ago? Cause for everyone but the few in F this even in a vintage CO 777 is vastly better experience

More delusion. The IPTE C class seats are better than the ex-CO seats for taller people and its a lot easier to sleep in the rear facing configuration.

And the Y seats are more comfortable and the AVOD performance is better on the 3-class birds.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:19 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 13):

Quoting AF022 (Reply 7):
I would have thought currency devaluation would have hurt traffic.

It is probably mostly US point of sale so perhaps the devalued currency is driving more US tourism southbound.

I'd say it is 50/50; depending on the airline. US airlines tend to carry a more diverse load of paxs, while AR caters to locals with their promotions and FF base. Though with DL codesharing on most of AR's flights to the US, this may be changing. That being said, AA is extremely popular in Argentina, with a huge AAdvantage base, locally hired flight crews (cabin) and the best connections to ALL North America, DL & UA play second fiddle.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):
Isn't Aerolineas Argentinas dropping JFK-EZE?

There was a rumor, published by CH Aviation, but thus far the airline has said no long haul cuts yet. I suspect BCN and FCO may be more at risk. i really don't see JFK being dropped. Cuts so far were on some Brazilian destinations (CWB and BSB - no surprises there) and a one domestic tag from CRD to RGL. GRU and GIG have seen frequency increases both from AEP and EZE as demand to those cities continues to hold and increase, mostly from the Argentina POS.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
codc10
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:32 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 30):

It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but the two-cabin 777s (and 787s) actually score higher on internal CS metrics, through the surveys, than three-cabin 777s.
 
UA444
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:33 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 32):

It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but the two-cabin 777s (and 787s) actually score higher on internal CS metrics, through the surveys, than three-cabin 777s.

Yes indeed, and for me being 5"10 180 lbs on a good day either C seat works for me. The -224 C seats are noticeably wider for bigger people while the -222 is a bit longer. Hopefully the new one combines both of those attributes.

Why does the ex-CO score higher though? And what's the scores for everything else?

I do think in terms of Y the 3 class 777 has the best combination in terms of seat padding, AVOD, and legroom in the entire Widebody fleet. Which is why I'm dreading seeing the 3-class A models being stripped of PTVs that aren't old in favor of streaming, especially if they get used on trunk routes to Europe and Latin America.

[Edited 2016-03-22 15:33:58]
 
tjh8402
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:07 am

Quoting dcajet (Thread starter):
The US-Argentina market goes from strength to strength. Following the upgauges announced by AA and DL, plus the recenlty introduced COR-MIA on AR, UA announced it is upgauging the IAH-EZE-IAH route to the 772, sCO config, 50J/217Y+/Y, effective Sept 7. Currently the route is flown with the 789, March-May on the 763, May-Sept on the 788 and then the 772 with no end date.

It's not much of an upgrade. A sCO 772 only has 2 more J and 13 more Y seats on a far thirstier airframe. Demand would have to be really high. Could this be for cargo? Is the 77E better at that? Or is this about freeing up a 789 for a different route?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
Its more seats yes, but its a product downgrade.

barely more seats. As I said, a total of 21 more - 4 J and 13 more Y.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 6):
How so? The biz class seats are exactly the same, and the back of the bus is, well, United. If you refer to the 777 being an older plane, well yes, but UA's 787s are nothing to write home about. Their innovation factor in the cabins is close to zero, save for the windows and cabin pressure, but that is not something United had anything to do with.

If you listen to all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments on here, this represents a huge upgrade in Y since this is the beloved 9 across 777 replacing the hated 9 across 787
 
VC10er
Posts: 4268
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):

Once UA takes the 787-9 off GIG, I will start the UA 767-4 to GRU, and then SDU.

I AM DYING TO TRY IT! Imagine, in and out of Rio from SDU to the USA. Do other carriers offer the same?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 35):
Once UA takes the 787-9 off GIG, I will start the UA 767-4 to GRU, and then SDU.

I AM DYING TO TRY IT! Imagine, in and out of Rio from SDU to the USA. Do other carriers offer the same?

Not going to happen. Even the 737-800 needs some tweaks to operate there, so even an empty 767-400 is a pipe dream. Hoping you like GIG as it is the only option for wide body ops in Rio.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
winGl3t
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm

RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:24 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 35):
Do other carriers offer the same?

Yes, GOL offers 10 daily departures on GRU-SDU to connect to its own international flights and to its code-share and interline partner.
OceanAir and Webjet flew the route also, but had no intl feed
 
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prchan
Posts: 125
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RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:15 pm

Quoting dcajet (Reply 36):
Not going to happen. Even the 737-800 needs some tweaks to operate there, so even an empty 767-400 is a pipe dream. Hoping you like GIG as it is the only option for wide body ops in Rio.

The option available is connecting on an AD flight operated by E190. UA is codesharing with them.
The highlight of this is arriving in downtown Rio (SDU).
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 33):
Why does the ex-CO score higher though?

IPTE has two true middle seats. There's also no useable storage space what so ever. The lack of privacy is also a factor. It's not always comfortable being face to face with someone across the asile.

Hopefully the new configuration solves these issues
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:14 pm

Before this thread got sidetracked into a debate on the merits of sUA vs. sCO 77E's, it should have been noted that this is not really what I'd call an upguage. During the northern winter of 2014-2015 IAH-EZE was flown with a 77E. This past winter it was flown with a 789. That is because UA had decided to base several 789's at IAH to use for deep South America routes. That thinking changed around the end of the year, and those frames will be shifting to SFO to ply East Asian routes now. Anyway, flying to EZE on a 77E during northern winter is not new, and been done several years in the past. IAH-EZE has seen 762, 764, 77E, 788. 789, and 763 equipment over the years.
 
codc10
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA Upgauges EZE

Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:09 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 33):
Why does the ex-CO score higher though? And what's the scores for everything else?

The middle seats and lack of storage space in IPTE J negatively impact the survey results. The rear-facing seats are controversial insofar as there are some unsuspecting passengers who end up in one, but don't want to be there. For others (like me), the rear-facing seats are preferable. Again, all a matter of opinion.

Y scores are comparable across the WB fleet, but the -400 is a notorious laggard for obvious reasons.

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