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lightsaber
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Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:53 am

Continue discussion from here:
Two Explosions At BRU (by sibille Mar 22 2016 in Civil Aviation)



Please keep discussion civil and on topic.
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SoJo
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:57 am

Quoting lightsaber (Thread starter):
Please keep discussion civil and on topic.

Thanks lightsaber. Part one was getting very messy very quick
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77west
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:57 am

Apologies, moderators. I felt it would come to that.

Back on topic: I see up to 23 dead now.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/...d-at-brussels-airport-reports.html

This is an abysmally tragic event.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:59 am

Got cut off...


Quoting ltbewr (Reply 78):
This is the first time in maybe a decade that we have seen a terror attack inside a European airline terminal. This is most disturbing. I suspect many airline terminals in Europe and even in the USA, may have to put in security to enter them, at least short term, to try to prevent more potential terrorist attacks

Was the one in Glasgow that long ago? Honest question, I remember it, but have no idea when that was, and my internet connection is jittery today.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:00 am

BRU will remain closed until tomorrow (at least): http://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/712212276569382912

Have all SN long-haul flights returned before the attack or were some diverted?
 
aloges
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:02 am

Quoting BubbleFrog (Reply 3):
Was the one in Glasgow that long ago?

30 June 2007... if only the terrorists in Brussels had been as "successful" as those two in Glasgow.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 2):
Back on topic: I see up to 23 dead now.

But this means Metro and Airport, right? (Not to say one is less severe than the other). Besides, sorry for the o/t.

Trains from Germany to Brussels have stopped. No other info yet in Germany on increased security measures.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 am

Northwestern Europe is getting understandably jumpy: a Dutch railway station was evacuated this morning due to an unattended backpack. False alarm.
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77west
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:05 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6):
But this means Metro and Airport, right? (Not to say one is less severe than the other). Besides, sorry for the o/t.

Well, the event as a whole. Yes, some are at metro stations, but I feel this whole incident should be looked at as one event, similar to 9-11.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:05 am

///Quoting 77west (Reply 139):

If I was Obama et al, what would I do? I don't know. I really don't. This world sucks.///

I'd take a selfie in front of a mural of a mass murderer.

I find it the opposite, countries that have an open immigration policy are seaming to suffer from more incidents as of late. I think it is civilizational weakness. You can have mass immigration as long as you have a strict policy of integration too:
1) mandatory language and cultural learning
2) schooling that promotes the greatness of the place (in Belgium, the schools should unapologetically teach Belgian greatness and not belittle western civilization)--otherwise why would the newcomers side with the country of their nominal homeland???

The recent wave is a different story, as most of the immigrants/ refugees now are young adult males and outside the scope of the cultural and behavior learning mechanisms, except enforcement authorities.
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blueflyer
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:07 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 2):
Back on topic: I see up to 23 dead now.

28
13 casualties at the airport, 15 in the subway station. Wounded are 35 and 55 respectively, including 10 in critical condition.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:08 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):
30 June 2007... if only the terrorists in Brussels had been as "successful" as those two in Glasgow.

Many thanks. And total agreement with your sentiment.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:08 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 9):

If I was Obama et al, what would I do? I don't know. I really don't. This world sucks.///

I'd take a selfie in front of a mural of a mass murderer.

I find it the opposite, countries that have an open immigration policy are seaming to suffer from more incidents as of late. I think it is civilizational weakness. You can have mass immigration as long as you have a strict policy of integration too:
1) mandatory language and cultural learning
2) schooling that promotes the greatness of the place (in Belgium, the schools should unapologetically teach Belgian greatness and not belittle western civilization)--otherwise why would the newcomers side with the country of their nominal homeland???

The recent wave is a different story, as most of the immigrants/ refugees now are young adult males and outside the scope of the cultural and behavior learning mechanisms, except enforcement authorities.

I think this line of discussion should go over to non-av, as it would be more appropriate there, and will keep the mods happy.

See here: Terrorist Attacks In Brussels (by KiwiRob Mar 22 2016 in Non Aviation)
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NH203
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:11 am

4 flights remain enroute to BRU, let's see where they'll divert.

TB CUN-BRU (probably AMS?)
EK DXB-BRU (no idea about that one, most likely AMS too?)
FR AGP-BRU (the flight actually departed after BRU was closed, so let's see what their plans are)
NH NRT-BRU (still several hours away, I'd expect they go to FRA, where their JV partner can handle connections).
 
PanHAM
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:11 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6):
No other info yet in Germany on increased security measures.

Federal Police officers control cars on the entry ramps at FRA, heightend security at the termianl. Let's face it, the terminals are soft Targets, like subway stations of Shopping centres.-. You cannot Close off These Areas just because some religious morons blow themselves up.
The answer is Observation, intelligence and Screening of potential suspects.
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SKAirbus
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:14 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 9):
The recent wave is a different story, as most of the immigrants/ refugees now are young adult males and outside the scope of the cultural and behavior learning mechanisms, except enforcement authorities.

Come on dude, you are better than pulling out the xenophobia card... This is a tragedy of epic proportions, people are dead, we don't know if there will be more attacks. Of course, it's easy to point at a brown person and blame them but that is what the terrorists want. They want us to turn against our fellow human beings, just like they are doing.

In the UK we saw IRA bombings regularly in the 80s and 90s, performed by white Irish/British men and women. In 2011 in Norway a blond-haired Norwegian fascist murdered 77 people. Yes, we are seeing several Islamist fundamentalists who are attacking anyone who disagrees with them but they are in the minority. The majority of refugees/migrants are good, law abiding citizens whose sole aim is to make a better life for themselves and their families. Whatever your politics can we just focus on what has happened and not resort to racist, xenophobic finger-pointing because it is not helpful.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:14 am

Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
EK DXB-BRU (no idea about that one, most likely AMS too?)

Probably, still a couple of hours away though.
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SKAirbus
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:17 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Federal Police officers control cars on the entry ramps at FRA, heightend security at the termianl. Let's face it, the terminals are soft Targets, like subway stations of Shopping centres.-. You cannot Close off These Areas just because some religious morons blow themselves up.
The answer is Observation, intelligence and Screening of potential suspects.

In London there is a more visible police presence today as a result of the attack. The authorities do not believe the city to be under any increased threat and have stated that this "step-up" is in order to provide reassurance to the public who are understandable quite jittery and affected by what has happened in Brussels. I think this increased presence includes at airports, railway stations, and any other large transport interchange.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:17 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 15):
The majority of refugees/migrants are good, law abiding citizens whose sole aim is to make a better life for themselves and their families.

The state police of ZRH just released some numbers saying that the crime rate among all refugees has dropped as more and more Iraqi and Syrian refugees come in.

Terrible tragedy. Brussels is a city I still have to visit.    


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blueflyer
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:18 am

Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
TB CUN-BRU (probably AMS?)

Yes

Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
EK DXB-BRU
Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
NH NRT-BRU.

DUS.
More O/D than connections on both flights, so picking the nearest suitable airport to BRU makes sense.

Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
FR AGP-BRU

No confirmation but most likely CRL.
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NH203
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:19 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 16):
Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
EK DXB-BRU (no idea about that one, most likely AMS too?)

Probably, still a couple of hours away though.

The flight is already over Germany should only be an hour to BRU/AMS.
 
bralo20
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:20 am

Official numbers about Brussels Airport (given by Maggie De Block, Health minister):

11 killed
31 in critical condition
23 severely injured
27 light injured

These are official, preliminary, numbers. No official numbers about the metro attack yet, these numbers go from 15 to 30 dead and numerous injured)
 
NH203
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:21 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 19):
More O/D than connections on both flights, so picking the nearest suitable airport to BRU makes sense.

I'm not sure about NH. Lufthansa has not many employees in DUS anymore, plus connections and passengers who might wish to return to Japan can be better handeld from FRA (3 daily FRA-HND vs 1 daily DUS-NRT.

EK to DUS makes sense though.

[Edited 2016-03-22 04:23:10]
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:21 am

Very sad to hear.

I think it's important not to forget, that back in the 70's and 80's there were far more frequent terror attacks than we' have seen in the last 15 years. A lot of people have forgotten that I think, because the 90's were fairly quiet. We must not allow these things to rule our lives and the way we live.
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:21 am

Quoting NH203 (Reply 20):
The flight is already over Germany should only be an hour to BRU/AMS.

I knew someone would get me on that lol. I though the same thing just after posting. They wont be landing at BRU though...
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:23 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 15):

Thank you. You seem to be one of the very people here who can keep calm in such tragic situations.


Knee-jerk reactions are worthless and don't lead to better security anyway. It's time to think about the dead and injured people and their relatives. And time to improve our secret services. But not more senseless security features which are a just show of safety.


Just thinking about the fact the the police organiations from Europe don't use one database for these criminals saddens me. And if they share data, there is no contract about how to translate the Arabic names into latin words. Every country does it differently. There is a lot of room of improvement in these areas which are not seen by the public eye.

Perhaps we get security checks before entering the terminal now. But how usefull is this? Then the next bomber detonates his bomb outside the terminal at the waiting queue of pax and staff. There will never be 100% safety...
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:25 am

Quoting NH203 (Reply 22):
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 19):
More O/D than connections on both flights, so picking the nearest suitable airport to BRU makes sense.

I'm not sure about NH. Lufthansa has not many employees in DUS anymore, plus connections and passengers who might wish to return to Japan can be better handeld from FRA (3 daily FRA-HND vs 1 daily DUS-NRT.

But it seems you were right   NH just updated their system indicating a diversion to DUS.
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:31 am

EK DXB-BRU will go to DUS too.
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 am

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/...75247/live-brussels-airport-blasts

Showing up to 28 Dead now with many injured.

So sad.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:35 am

Some folks in the previous thread were wondering if preliminary screening to enter the airport is the new norm now? I thought the same thing after flying in and out of Turkey 18 months ago...that made sense. Do a quick scan of the bags and persons coming into the terminal for check-in...then another secondary screening to access the gates. I think this might be happening across the globe in our future if crap like this continues.
 
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77west
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:41 am

Quoting NH203 (Reply 27):
EK DXB-BRU will go to DUS too.

Yip I was wrong thinking AMS looks like DUS.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:45 am

The other problems from this attack at BRU is that trains and mass transit are shut down in the region, making it impossible to travel, even to a hotel to wait out when the airport will be opened with limited service or go home. Airlines have to move crews around, make arrangements for pax to move to/from alternative airports, perhaps operate from other airports with limited staff support for maybe weeks until BRU is operational. That also means additional costs, less revenues from perhaps fewer travelers out of fear of further terror attacks in European cities.

I suspect as others and I have previously noted that we will see at many airports, if don't have the already, security checkpoints to enter terminals, only letting in staff and ticketed passengers, strict checkpoints or made to use remote pickup/drop-off points for private and taxi/livery vehicles, It is going to be a 'new normal'.
 
starrymarkb
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:45 am

Quoting BubbleFrog (Reply 3):
Was the one in Glasgow that long ago? Honest question, I remember it, but have no idea when that was, and my internet connection is jittery today.

And this is why you can't drive right up to the terminal of UK airports in private cars. Buses are allowed closer but have to be admitted into the forecourt individually by security.

Problem with checking before entering the terminal is that you've just created another soft target with the queues to enter the building.

How would it work somewhere like Amsterdam, where the airport railway station (integrated into the terminal) is a major interchange for the rail network as well as for Rail-Air passengers?
 
teahan
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:47 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 29):

Some folks in the previous thread were wondering if preliminary screening to enter the airport is the new norm now? I thought the same thing after flying in and out of Turkey 18 months ago...that made sense. Do a quick scan of the bags and persons coming into the terminal for check-in...then another secondary screening to access the gates. I think this might be happening across the globe in our future if crap like this continues.

And terrorists can simply blow themselves up in the queue outside instead of inside the terminal. And when they can't do it in the queue outside, they'll just do it somewhere on the street. Where do you draw the line?
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theaviator380
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:51 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 29):
Some folks in the previous thread were wondering if preliminary screening to enter the airport is the new norm now? I thought the same thing after flying in and out of Turkey 18 months ago...that made sense. Do a quick scan of the bags and persons coming into the terminal for check-in...then another secondary screening to access the gates. I think this might be happening across the globe in our future if crap like this continues.

It's a common practice at few airports around the globe but not in EU. I can't believe some people on this forum mentioning it will be practically difficult whilst other countries can manage it. Always safe than sorry...worst come worst, it might increase the overall time required to jump on plane but it's def worth than facing security issues imho. Instead of 1.5 hrs, people might need to travel 2.5-3 hrs early before their departure.
 
teahan
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:51 am

Ryanair have stated that BRU is closed until 06:00 tomorrow. It's not clear if this is based on information they have or if it's an assumption:

“Brussels Zaventem Airport is closed until 6am tomorrow and as a result, all of our remaining Brussels Zaventem flights have been cancelled. Flights to/from Brussels Charleroi are running, although with some delays at the airport. Customers due to travel to/from Brussels Zaventem today should check the Ryanair.com website for the latest information. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the victims.”
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aloges
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:02 pm

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 32):
Problem with checking before entering the terminal is that you've just created another soft target with the queues to enter the building.

It would be a far quicker check though, so the queues would be much shorter. What you do in that kind of setup is put all your bags on the belt as well as any heavy clothing you are wearing, walk through a metal detector and pick up your things. Unless the airport has too few checkpoints, it's a quick and almost hassle-free process.
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:06 pm

Quoting teahan (Reply 33):
And terrorists can simply blow themselves up in the queue outside instead of inside the terminal. And when they can't do it in the queue outside, they'll just do it somewhere on the street. Where do you draw the line?

During the troubles in NI we were screened before entering the terminal building and also the RUC had check points before entering the airport itself with ID checks and mirrors under the cars to see if there were car bombs. Of course BFS being a lot smaller than Europe's major airports this caused less disruption. It would be a huge task to bring this in at BRU CDG LHR etc..
 
mrv85
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:11 pm

Quoting NH203 (Reply 13):
TB CUN-BRU

Seem as if this one landed at OST a little while ago.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:12 pm

Quoting teahan (Reply 33):
Where do you draw the line?

When every last one of these ****tard radicals is burning in hell with their 72 demon virgins. Unfortunately, they control the pace of security measures now.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:13 pm

I haven't been to BRU for about a year, but used recently CRL a few times (after the Paris attacks) and the army presence there was surprisingly heavy (for a secondary airport). Even if it is a bad taste, I had thought when at CRL that if a terrorist attack would happen, BRU would be more likely because of the "main" airport effect.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
During the troubles in NI we were screened before entering the terminal building and also the RUC had check points before entering the airport itself with ID checks and mirrors under the cars to see if there were car bombs. Of course BFS being a lot smaller than Europe's major airports this caused less disruption. It would be a huge task to bring this in at BRU CDG LHR etc..

IST has control access to the terminal. TLV or JED have road check-points and those are relatively large airports.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:24 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 39):
When every last one of these ****tard radicals is burning in hell with their 72 demon virgins. Unfortunately, they control the pace of security measures now.

I'm sorry, but it's fairly naive to think that terrorism can be eradicated ... ever ...
 
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OA260
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:26 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 40):

IST has control access to the terminal.

I know that fully well I have used IST on a regular basis over the years and just a few months ago. I was standing in a line for 20 mins to get in. There are a number of entry points including coming off the train. TLV is a different story and having been through there a few times also the check in times also reflect this. So for many airports of a large scale this would mean major changes both in man power and equip. and changes to check in times.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:29 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 42):

Yes TLV is a bit particular.

But I was talking about road check-points to access the airport area. Airports like JED or BEY have this and it is not much different than a motorway toll.
 
teahan
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:32 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
During the troubles in NI we were screened before entering the terminal building and also the RUC had check points before entering the airport itself with ID checks and mirrors under the cars to see if there were car bombs. Of course BFS being a lot smaller than Europe's major airports this caused less disruption. It would be a huge task to bring this in at BRU CDG LHR etc..

DUB also had a terminal entry inspection well into the 1990s.
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apfpilot
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:35 pm

In regards to those who were looking for KSA to condemn terrorism, specifically Skydrol: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...re-in-wake-of-french-a6739001.html

Saudi King Salman sent a cable of condolence to French President Francoise Hollande. “We learned about the pain and the sadness of the terrorist attacks in Paris…we express our condemnation for this repugnant terrorist act and offer our condolences to your excellency, the French people and the families of the victims,” said the king, who is currently in Turkey for the G20 Summit.

While there are many things about KSA that I am not a big fan of, credit must be given where credit is due.
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OA260
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:41 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 43):
BEY have this and it is not much different than a motorway toll.

Indeed been through there a number of times too   Didnt stop Hezbollah coming in and taking over the terminal on one occasion. !

Quoting teahan (Reply 44):
DUB also had a terminal entry inspection well into the 1990s.

Indeed but DUB was on a much less scale than BFS. I used both in the 90s and BFS was far more extensive for obvious reasons. In DUB it was far more of a random nature too.
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:42 pm

So reports are showing that damage is limited in BRU to the entrance halls itself and not to the check in areas or the gates. I wonder how quickly they can cordon off the damaged part of the terminal and get BRU back up and running.
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OA260
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:47 pm

A Sky News reporter was flying BRU-TLV and was in duty free and caught up in the blast. He was able to report live from the scene. Some content on news.sky.com
 
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RE: Two Explosions At BRU Pt 2.

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:09 pm

I don't advocate any changes at the airports or in public. There's no sense at all in overreacting to an event that, once started, is unavoidable. All you're changing is the location of what happens.
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