doulasc
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:29 am

When United bought Capital Airlines in 1961 Capital had Lockheed Constellation,Vickers Viscounts,Douglas DC-6B
(leased from Pan Am),some Douglas DC-3s and DC-4s.Capital had on order Convair 880s and Lockheed Prop Jet Electras.
At the time of the merger United only inherited the Vickers Viscount from Capital.The Lockheed Constllations were retired,
The DC-6Bs were returned to Pan Am.United felt they had no use for the DC-3 or 4, The Convair 880 and Lockheed Electra
order was not taken up by United.
On the routes to Florida after the Merger United never operated their DC-7s down there I heard.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4284
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:51 am

I met some of the Capital Airlines Guys when I got hired in 1984. What a bunch of Characters!!
They knew their Businessbut retired shortly after I got hired.
Most all of them were gone by the time I finished Probation in 1985.
And most of the mechanics I trained with were gone in 1986,
Some of those guys had April 1951 seniority.
Hell !! I wasn't BORN until Dec. 1951. So needless to say, I was their "Boy wonder" on the Terminal at SFO
I worked all day with no break for lunch because the foreman on the terminal growled and snarled so much??
I never thought about asking him FOR lunch between his growling and Snarling about firing the 3 "probies" every 15 minutes..
We must have been OK though We're all still HERE after 36 years.
And now?? We're Old and Cranky ourselves..
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:15 am

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
On the routes to Florida after the merger United never operated their DC-7s down there I heard.

1963/1966/1969 timetables show the following UA types on the former-Capital routes to points in Florida:

August 1963 - B720, Caravelle, Viscount, DC-6.
April 1964 - B727-100.
April 1969 - B727-100 and -200.
 
doulasc
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:10 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):

In the late 1960s-70s didn't United operate the DC-8 to Florida.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:19 am

The ex Capital Florida routes were 727 territory for as far back as I can remember (1970 or so). My family used to take them quite often from PIT when I was young.
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:27 am

I know this may sound stupid, but was there a CAPITOL Airlines that was still operating in the 80s? When I was working in DL ops at SHV , we worked a DC-8 for Baylor University's football team (probably for the independence bowl. I could swear it was a Capitol aircraft.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
sparky35805
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:08 pm

Capital merged with United in 1961.Capitol was a non-sked or supplemental based in Nashville.They operated charters until deregulation when they started some scheduled service before going out of business in the mid 1980s.
As for Capitals fleet after the merger,The Viscounts were kept on the east coast operating mostly former Capital routes.The Constellations had been retired before the merger and the DC-4s were parked with the merger.Three DC-3s were used by United until early 1962 on former Capital routes in New York and Pennsylvania with airports that could nt handle the Viscount or DC-6.They were in full Capital colors.Unlike mergers now there was not an interim paint scheme.The mentioned DC-3s and viscounts operated in full Capital colors until the last Viscount was painted in United colors in the spring of 1962.
Capital had been operating leased United 720s on routes from the northeast to Florida and New Orleans starting in late 1960.Caravelles were used over many of the former Capital routes starting in the fall of 1961.United also used DC-6 and DC-6Bs on former Capital routes.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1995
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:17 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):

I know this may sound stupid, but was there a CAPITOL Airlines that was still operating in the 80s? When I was working in DL ops at SHV , we worked a DC-8 for Baylor University's football team (probably for the independence bowl. I could swear it was a Capitol aircraft.

Your memory serves you well.

Do a Google search for "Capital Airlines DC-8" and you'll find some photos.

IOW, there was more than one Capital Airlines.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 660
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:01 pm

Here is the route map for George Batchelor's short lived Capitol International Airways scheduled operations. Note the different spelling. It was folded into Batchelor's other holding...Arrow Air.

http://www.departedflights.com/CL110581.html
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 7):
Your memory serves you well.

I don't hear that much anymore and with good reason.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting sparky35805 (Reply 6):
.Capitol was a non-sked or supplemental based in Nashville.They operated charters until deregulation when they started some scheduled service before going out of business in the mid 1980s.

Better do a recheck of the facts...that was Capitol International, completely unrelated to Capital Airlines, when I hired in at UAL at ORD in 1997 there were a couple Capital mechanics, they had been hired shortly before the merger, good guys, a lot of stories about when there was a mass exodus of Red Birds after the base at DCA was shut down and the struggles that followed, Blue Bird vs Red Bird as one UAL old timer said "some guys will be carrying this one until ther're dead".

Pilot group had problems, completely different cockpit policies and management procedures.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
Archer
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:07 am

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:25 pm

My first jet ride was on a Capitol DC-8 fanjet. Courtesy of the US Army from Philadelphia to Augusta
Georgia.
N4904C on 11/1/64. Saw it again in June or July of 1966 at Frankfurt.
 
cubastar
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:48 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:32 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
I don't hear that much anymore and with good reason.

Just wait until you catch up with me!
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 3):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):

In the late 1960s-70s didn't United operate the DC-8 to Florida.

UA operated DC-8s to Florida in the 1970s and later. There are quite a few A.net photos. Can't find any schedules in the 1960s showing DC-8s on those routes.
 
sparky35805
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:21 am

We saw Capitol Super Connies here in HSV often in the 60s.They operated charters for the military and NASA.The Von Braun group would charter one to go to Germany for Vacation.
Capital started here in 1944 when the were still PCA.We even had a Super DC-3 through here for about a year.
 
charlienorth
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:21 am

Quoting Archer (Reply 11):

My first jet ride was on a Capitol DC-8 fanjet. Courtesy of the US Army from Philadelphia to Augusta
Georgia.
N4904C on 11/1/64. Saw it again in June or July of 1966 at Frankfurt.

And again COMPLETELY DIFFERENT airline -ol -al
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:27 am

Quoting cubastar (Reply 12):

Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
I don't hear that much anymore and with good reason.

Just wait until you catch up with me!

Well, that would mean that you quit getting older and I don't wish that on anyone.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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rj968
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:57 am

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:23 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
United felt they had no use for the DC-3
Quoting sparky35805 (Reply 6):
Three DC-3s were used by United until early 1962 on former Capital routes in New York and Pennsylvania with airports that could nt handle the Viscount or DC-6.They were in full Capital colors.Unlike mergers now there was not an interim paint scheme.

Glad someone else remembered the United operated DC-3's after the Capital merger.

Here's a picture I took at BAL Friendship gate C-2 in Nov 61 showing the DC-3 (note United bag cart). They used to park between gates, between two UA 720's. I was hoping to find a picture with the UA 720 included, but no luck. I knew that picture would come in handy in 55 years!

I can't find a timetable from that post merger period, but from memory the flight was Rochester-Elmira-Williamsburg-Harrisburg-BAL-DCA (or something close).

UAL DC-3 (Capital Colors) BAL Nov 61 RJ Wilmoth photo


RJ
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting rj968 (Reply 17):
I can't find a timetable from that post merger period, but from memory the flight was Rochester-Elmira-Williamsburg-Harrisburg-BAL-DCA (or something close).

See flight 564 on page 8 of Capital's June 1, 1961 timetable (possibly their last timetable since that was the effective date of the UA merger). 500-series flights were DC-3s, 400-series were DC-4s and 600-series were DC-6s.
http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/ca2/ca61/

Routing of flight 564:
Pittsburgh-Buffalo-Rochester-Elmira-Williamsport-Harrisburg-Washington-Newport News
Originated BUF on Sunday.
 
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rj968
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:57 am

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
See flight 564 on page 8 of Capital's June 1, 1961 timetable (possibly their last timetable since that was the effective date of the UA merger). 500-series flights were DC-3s, 400-series were DC-4s and 600-series were DC-6s.
http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/...ca61/

HA!, I was looking for UA schedules, didn't think about looking for CA! Well, at least I remembered the (partial) routing for a flight 55 years ago. At the time it was really strange to see UA operating a DC-3 in 1961. I should have hopped on that one BAL-DCA. I used to do BAL-DCA-BAL all the time for fun. The fare was 6.30 OW. Many airlines flew between the two, I guess part of the old Air Mail routing. I still have my ticket stub for my first flight, Lake Central flt422. The flight whet from BAL to ORD with 8 or 9 stops. Even in those days airlines geeks were buying tickets on that trip.

RJ
 
sparky35805
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Capital Airlines Fleet With United Merger

Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:53 pm

It was strange to see a United flight listed as a DC-3 Mainliner in a late 1961 timetable.

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