wnflyguy
Topic Author
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Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:06 am

Just got a email from a friend showing the finished rehabilitation WN did on the 3 international gates E29,31&33.

I can see some international flying on WN coming in 2017.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
stlgph
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:22 am

if Cancun, Montego Bay or Punta Cana are added ... no one should be surprised.

edit: p.s.: share the pictures. would be curious to see (if you can). thanks

[Edited 2016-03-26 21:24:09]
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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adamblang
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:52 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Just got a email from a friend showing the finished rehabilitation WN did on the 3 international gates E29,31&33.

Care to share?
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av8orwalk
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:12 am

I saw this on Instagram today. Not a lot of detail, but looks nice! No digital screens installed yet. Looks like they are using the old school boarding signs for the time being.

http://i.imgur.com/rwoqPPO.jpg

Cheers!
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ericm2031
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:36 am

Wow quite a bit of LUV for STL lately. Guess this partially explains the pretty quick pace of new cities being added lately.
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:18 pm

Not a huge surprise. WN was already using E29 exclusively for at least a year now. I figured WN would eventually grow into E31-33 as well. It wouldn't surprise me to see STL unmothball D Concourse a.k,a. the old Ozark Airplex to give WN access to those gates as well. I think WN sees a lot of potential for STL as a mid continent connecting hub similar to DEN in size and scope. With MDW being maxed out, look for continued WN growth in bothMKE and STL over the next few years.

[Edited 2016-03-27 06:20:28]

[Edited 2016-03-27 06:21:36]
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
usflyguy
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:40 pm

Quoting av8orwalk (Reply 3):
No digital screens installed yet. Looks like they are using the old school boarding signs for the time being.

But those new screens are coming, as you can tell with the white cone at the bottom with the wires coming out of it.

If I remember correctly, F9, AA, and UA or DL already have all of the CUN route authorities for STL though? Maybe we'll see MBJ and PUJ until the bilateral is finalized by the Mexican senate?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:03 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 5):
I think WN sees a lot of potential for STL as a mid continent connecting hub similar to DEN in size and scope. With MDW being maxed out, look for continued WN growth in bothMKE and STL over the next few years.

Why didnt they ramp up post AA hub? I was always surprised by that.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:19 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
Why didnt they ramp up post AA hub? I was always surprised by that.

I think they did, but there wasn't really that much low-hanging fruit (which probably tells us something about the quality of AA's hub). They added and added to NYC and WAS as AA pulled those down and added a number of bigger cities after AA cut them (e.g. BNA and PIT, which AA cut and WN added much more recently). It's just that stuff like CID or IND wasn't that interesting to WN.
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LambertMan
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:49 pm

The sad part is the purple carpeting appears to be gone. I was there in the spring and it was still up on the walls in all its 1984 glory.

I wonder if an international carrier would sub-lease a gate from WN when / if a Europe flight was started? I tend to think something like Condor, Icelandair, or British Airways will happen within the next few years. The customs facilities are pretty nice down there after the refurbishment, too.


Quoting SWADawg (Reply 5):

Not a huge surprise. WN was already using E29 exclusively for at least a year now. I figured WN would eventually grow into E31-33 as well. It wouldn't surprise me to see STL unmothball D Concourse a.k,a. the old Ozark Airplex to give WN access to those gates as well. I think WN sees a lot of potential for STL as a mid continent connecting hub similar to DEN in size and scope. With MDW being maxed out, look for continued WN growth in bothMKE and STL over the next few years.

I really doubt it. These three gates will give an extra 20 to 30 flights worth of capacity and I just don't see STL growing beyond 110 flights. I've also heard Concourse D is an operational nightmare due to the long, narrow corridors, so I'm not sure its an option even if they wanted it to be.
 
GSP psgr
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:12 pm

Wasn't STL-JAX a big route for AA due to Anheuiser Busch traffic? A bit surprised WN hasn't added that one if true. I seem to recall AA sticking on STL-ORF a longish time too. Beyond those two, there's not a ton of stuff that jumps out; CLT, SLC, and maybe PBI seasonally as well as STL-MEM/IND as WN's doing really short stage lengths again.
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 9):
I really doubt it. These three gates will give an extra 20 to 30 flights worth of capacity and I just don't see STL growing beyond 110 flights. I've also heard Concourse D is an operational nightmare due to the long, narrow corridors, so I'm not sure its an option even if they wanted it to be.

I don't disagree at all. I think WN will have plenty of available gate capacity with these new gates for quite awhile. I was just stating that they DO have options to grow into a MUCH bigger operation over the long term if they so choose. Either way, it's nice to see STL continue to grow. It's been a remarkably good city for WN over the years.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:27 pm

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 10):
Wasn't STL-JAX a big route for AA due to Anheuiser Busch traffic? A bit surprised WN hasn't added that one if true. I seem to recall AA sticking on STL-ORF a longish time too. Beyond those two, there's not a ton of stuff that jumps out; CLT, SLC, and maybe PBI seasonally as well as STL-MEM/IND as WN's doing really short stage lengths again.

I'm surprised JAX & ORF havent been started from STL. Those were longstanding routes until the end of the AA hub. Maybe in time now with some more gates coming online.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 9):
I really doubt it. These three gates will give an extra 20 to 30 flights worth of capacity and I just don't see STL growing beyond 110 flights. I've also heard Concourse D is an operational nightmare due to the long, narrow corridors, so I'm not sure its an option even if they wanted it to be.

Even at 110 flights thats a pretty healthy and good sized "hub" as far as WN goes. It would really be nice if they did something with D whether it be to turn it into a corridor that connects it back with the main terminal that they could fill up with stores/restaurants, relaxation space, etc. Either that or totally just raze it and eliminate to get rid of wasted space they will never use again like MEM is doing with their terminal. There is still plenty of spare gate space at the end of C and also on B should they need growth.
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:37 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):

Even at 110 flights thats a pretty healthy and good sized "hub" as far as WN goes. It would really be nice if they did something with D whether it be to turn it into a corridor that connects it back with the main terminal that they could fill up with stores/restaurants, relaxation space, etc. Either that or totally just raze it and eliminate to get rid of wasted space they will never use again like MEM is doing with their terminal. There is still plenty of spare gate space at the end of C and also on B should they need growth.

I wouldn't get rid of D Concourse until STL finds out what WN's long term growth needs are. Like you said, D Concourse is the only thing connecting the East Terminal with the rest of the Airport. The only thing razing D does is isolate the East Terminal from the rest of the Concourses. The only other thing that would make that workable would be to put an inter terminal train in where D Concourse is currently to connect E with C and B Concourses. I think that would be a lot more expensive than to just keep D Concourse in tact and eventually renovating it for future growth.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
bigb
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:24 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):
Even at 110 flights thats a pretty healthy and good sized "hub" as far as WN goes. It would really be nice if they did something with D whether it be to turn it into a corridor that connects it back with the main terminal that they could fill up with stores/restaurants, relaxation space, etc. Either that or totally just raze it and eliminate to get rid of wasted space they will never use again like MEM is doing with their terminal. There is still plenty of spare gate space at the end of C and also on B should they need growth.

For awhile, I really thought UA/DL moving over to that concourse would have worked out perfectly for the airport and shut the A concourse down...... But STL already invested money into that concourse.
 
chrisair
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:16 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 5):
It wouldn't surprise me to see STL unmothball D Concourse a.k,a. the old Ozark Airplex to give WN access to those gates as well.

Should they open up D to WN, there would need to be a major expansion of the security area at E. It's been a few years since I've been to STL, but that checkpoint was pretty small back then. Can't imagine what it'd be like with 150-200 WN flights.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 9):
The sad part is the purple carpeting appears to be gone. I was there in the spring and it was still up on the walls in all its 1984 glory.

Booooo. The red carpeting on the walls in D is also quite the throwback.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:19 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):
I'm surprised JAX & ORF havent been started from STL. Those were longstanding routes until the end of the AA hub.

For whatever reason, WN seems to like to funnel many JAX connections through BNA; note the significant loss of frequency on ATL-JAX post-merger. I am certainly not saying there is no hope for STL-JAX, but it's generally a 250 mile longer flight to serve the same flows.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 9):
I wonder if an international carrier would sub-lease a gate from WN when / if a Europe flight was started? I tend to think something like Condor, Icelandair, or British Airways will happen within the next few years. The customs facilities are pretty nice down there after the refurbishment, too.

It seems to me that the only issue at Terminal 2 could be ticket counter space. D has gobs of space for a lounge if the carrier wants one and customs/bag claim facilities are obviously fine.
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mtnwest1979
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:37 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
It seems to me that the only issue at Terminal 2 could be ticket counter space. D has gobs of space for a lounge if the carrier wants one and customs/bag claim facilities are obviously fine.

Only hal;f of the ticket counter space is used in terminal 2, so no issue there.

As for checkpoint , they have a second checkpoint on western end that seems to handle excess pax well enough I think.
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stlgph
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):
I'm surprised JAX & ORF havent been started from STL
Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 10):
Wasn't STL-JAX a big route for AA due to Anheuiser Busch traffic?

When InBev took over AB they cut down on a lot of corporate travel instead focusing on conference calls and the internet.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 9):
I've also heard Concourse D is an operational nightmare due to the long, narrow corridors, so I'm not sure its an option even if they wanted it to be.

Concourse D worked just fine for the jets of TWA. If they can make LGA's Concourse B work, they could make Concourse D work.

The problem with Concourse D is the work that needs to be done to it. There is a significant gap between E33 to the first gates which would be available on the Concourse. What is needed - new flooring, new lighting, probably a significant re-working of the gate area and probably the jet bridges themselves. It's not impossible but 1) can the work be done on an as needed basis or does it require the entire concourse to be done all at once and 2) the important question - does STL airport pick up the tab or does Southwest pick up the tab.
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jsnww81
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 18):
When InBev took over AB they cut down on a lot of corporate travel instead focusing on conference calls and the internet.

I'll second this. I interned for AB InBev a few years ago when I was in grad school and they were very, very strict about corporate travel. Every major office location got a telepresence system and use of that was heavily encouraged in lieu of travel. The company was big on "zero-based budgeting" and any/all travel expenses were carefully reviewed and had to be vigorously defended. I was based in New York, and in three months made just one business trip to St. Louis.

From what I could gather, it was quite a shock for the legacy AB employees, for whom first-class travel, fancy hotels and generous expense budgets had been a big part of the culture.
 
NolaMD88fan
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:11 am

Nice to see WN growing at my former home airport. A few years back, I often walked from C to D to E and back while waiting on my AA flight to MSY. Now I'm usually stuck in E while waiting for the WN flight to MSY.

As far as Concourse D is concerned, I think any modernization should be picked up by the airport board. WN will obvously want to tailor the gates to fit their needs with the queue system and seats they like to use, but the overall renovation should probably be more in line with what occurred in A and C. I also agree that the check in situation in Terminal 2 can be quite congested at times currently. The 2nd security area has helped with the backlog at the checkpoint, but it is somewhat convoluted if you aren't familiar with where to go. Baggage claim is quite small and very hectic, and if more flights are going to be added another baggage belt is probably needed.
 
stlgph
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:36 am

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 19):

Oh yes, I remember living in STL and hearing the AB tell their tales of traveling here there and everywhere. Hell even the tour guides were sent to other breweries across the country to be trained on "processes" and "the system" so they could answer the 1 or 2 odd questions they'd get a year from those on tours wanting to know about beer being made at their other locations.

There was a big story about this when InBev took over AB and how the ceo of InBev, Carlos Brito flies coach. When executive teams would come to St. Louis to work out the purchase deal, they wouldn't be at the Ritz in Clayton, they once were reported to have stayed at the Holiday Inn on Hampton & I-44.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FlyBoy84
Posts: 331
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 4:17 am

RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:44 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 13):
I wouldn't get rid of D Concourse until STL finds out what WN's long term growth needs are. Like you said, D Concourse is the only thing connecting the East Terminal with the rest of the Airport. The only thing razing D does is isolate the East Terminal from the rest of the Concourses. The only other thing that would make that workable would be to put an inter terminal train in where D Concourse is currently to connect E with C and B Concourses. I think that would be a lot more expensive than to just keep D Concourse in tact and eventually renovating it for future growth.

I believe the local Metrolink line already handles travel back-and-forth between the terminals for free...or at least it did at one time.
 
steex
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting FlyBoy84 (Reply 22):
I believe the local Metrolink line already handles travel back-and-forth between the terminals for free...or at least it did at one time.

The Metrolink free zone between the terminals was discontinued a few years ago, the airport now runs shuttle buses instead.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Southwest And STL!

Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:13 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 21):
There was a big story about this when InBev took over AB and how the ceo of InBev, Carlos Brito flies coach. When executive teams would come to St. Louis to work out the purchase deal, they wouldn't be at the Ritz in Clayton, they once were reported to have stayed at the Holiday Inn on Hampton & I-44.

I met Carlos Brito several times during my internship. When he worked in the New York HQ he would take the Metro North railroad to work from his home in Connecticut - no town cars, no helicopters. The InBev culture was very egalitarian and that's been applied on all of their acquisitions. I heard stories about the "glory years" of the old AB, where half of the executives didn't even come into the office, preferring to take meetings from their country clubs, or on their boats in the summer. It was about as antiquated of an executive culture as you could find anywhere and it was place as recently as 2009; very hard to believe.

We stayed at the Hyatt in downtown St. Louis during my business trip, so some of the hotel restrictions had been relaxed by then, but they also had a sweetheart rate set up there, and it was very convenient to the brewery/North American HQ in Soulard.

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