mastermis
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:48 pm

These pics just showed up on my Facebook feed. I have NOT seen anything official yet.
According to the comments this is off-airport.

Looks like a small bizjet.

 
mastermis
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:05 pm

First news.

(French)

http://www.cfim.ca/accueil/-/pub/jSA...ve?_101_INSTANCE_jSA4_redirect=%2F

Quick translation:

- A small jet crashed around 12:30
- Its a small twin-engine turbo-prop registered in the USA. An eight seater
- The plane is badly damaged
- The police confirm that there are injured individuals
- Commercial flights are cancelled due to fog

[Edited 2016-03-29 11:05:59]
 
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Moose135
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:18 pm

It clearly looks like a US-registered aircraft. From what I can see of the registration, I think it might be an MU-2, but I'll refrain from speculating until more is known.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
bennett123
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:22 pm

Is that reg N2 or NZ?.
 
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Moose135
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:31 pm

Looks like N2xxx to me.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
mastermis
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:34 pm

Looks like N2***6W to me. (the last 2 numbers can be seen in the second picture)

[Edited 2016-03-29 11:34:36]
 
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Moose135
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:36 pm

Quoting mastermis (Reply 5):

Same here - as I mentioned, I think I know what it is (it's in the database) but I want to wait for something official before I post about a specific airplane crashing...
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
flightsimer
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:55 pm

N24_6W or N24_5W

Looks to be N246W, a MU-2B-60 built in 1982.

[Edited 2016-03-29 12:02:56]
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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Spacepope
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:56 pm

Edit: nevermind, Mitsubishi MU-2 N246W Hope everyone makes it.



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Durning



[Edited 2016-03-29 11:58:02]

[Edited 2016-03-29 11:59:02]
The last of the famous international playboys
 
mastermis
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:42 pm

English media now.
Seems like a former politician and now prominent media personality *may* have been on board.  http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...ly-crashes-on-iles-de-la-madeleine
 
FDH
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:55 pm

 
FDH
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:39 pm

According to CTV news, 7 fatalities, including former MP Jean Lapierre.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/

FDH
 
ghYHZ
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:52 pm

The Iles de la Madeleine..... A beautiful place in the summer but windswept islands in the winter and more bleak looking today after this tragedy. Condolences to all.

Magdalen Islands –Iles De La Madeleine (by ghYHZ Sep 16 2015 in Trip Reports)
 
Thenoflyzone
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:21 am

What a sad turn of events.

Mr. Lapierre and his family where heading to YGR for the funeral of his father. They all perished.

Condolences to anyone close to their family.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Thenoflyzone
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:19 am

....bad weather at destination, coupled with the fact that the plane involved, the MU-2, has a dismal safety record, due mostly to its high performance handling characteristics. Not exactly stacking the odds in your favor.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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Vio
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:29 am

There's already a topic on this and I think the mods should edit the subject line. It was an MU-2, not a jet.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:34 am

Quoting vio (Reply 15):

This thread was started first.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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Vio
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:14 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):
This thread was started first.

Roger,

Here's the plane in question:

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...ly-crashes-on-iles-de-la-madeleine

http://wpmedia.montrealgazette.com/2016/03/the-wreckage-of-an-airplane-lies-in-a-field-tuesday-march-2.jpeg?quality=55&strip=all
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:35 am

From what I heard on the news...

YGR ceiling was at 300ft, Winds gusting to 40 kts.

Lack of alternate nearby.....

Air Canada Jazz had canceled their flights to YGR for the entire day. This pilot, who recently acquired the MU-2, decided to go ahead nonetheless. He was experienced (several thousand hours in total) but hadn't flown regularly lately. He asked to be accompanied by an instructor.

All I see are swiss cheeses lined up.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
cyeg66
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:38 am

Indeed, lots of holes lined up pretty firmly in that fromage.... What awful circumstances for the surviving family members. A family wiped out just like that. RIP.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
peanuts
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:50 am

The MU-2 is a very capable, yet tricky aircraft. It has to be mastered.
For me to set foot on one, I'd want to know who is flying it and their MU-2 experience.

Good article: http://www.flyingmag.com/safety/trai...rous-airplanes-or-dangerous-pilots
 
AirFiero
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:07 am

The copilot was a member of an aviation forum to which I belong. We've been discussing it there. This was very sad news.
 
JRadier
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Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 18):
He was experienced (several thousand hours in total) but hadn't flown regularly lately. He asked to be accompanied by an instructor.

While they all lined up in the end, I have to applaud his choice to be accompanied by an instructor. That's a move that many a pilot would not do, thinking 'I've got this'.
 
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FlyingJhawk
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:00 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 22):
While they all lined up in the end, I have to applaud his choice to be accompanied by an instructor. That's a move that many a pilot would not do, thinking 'I've got this'.

I'm not sure we'll ever know, but what was the instructor thinking that this was a good idea to fly to that airport yesterday given weather and the Jazz cancellations?
 
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Vio
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:43 am

One needs to know his or her limits as a pilot. Of course it's too premature to comment on the cause or to start pointing fingers.

I'm faced with similar decisions now as a new B200 captain. It's the hardest part. "Is this legal? Can I do this? Am I comfortable with this? Is my physical and mental state okay to do this?" I wonder what type of external pressure (or internal for that matter) he faced. The "get-er done" mentality is still floating around with certain operators / pilots.

Also, I'd be very curious to find out the regulations regarding rest for someone operating this "N" registered aircraft doing this type of "Air Taxi" operations. I also would like to know what this individual did in the last 24-48 hrs.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
MANYUL
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:11 pm

What is the normal procedure for the air investigation, US plane crashing on Canadian soil? I have been reliably informed that Transport Canada will be sending one of the engines back to the USA for testing in the next day or 2. Is because they were manufactured in the USA?
 
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Vio
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:56 am

Quoting MANYUL (Reply 25):

What is the normal procedure for the air investigation, US plane crashing on Canadian soil? I have been reliably informed that Transport Canada will be sending one of the engines back to the USA for testing in the next day or 2. Is because they were manufactured in the USA?

I don't think Transport Canada has anything to do with the investigation (for now). This will fall with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada (Canadian version of the NTSB). "Transport Canada" is like the FAA. I hope I'm not speaking out of my @$$.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:19 am

Quoting vio (Reply 26):
Quoting MANYUL (Reply 25):

What is the normal procedure for the air investigation, US plane crashing on Canadian soil? I have been reliably informed that Transport Canada will be sending one of the engines back to the USA for testing in the next day or 2. Is because they were manufactured in the USA?

I don't think Transport Canada has anything to do with the investigation (for now). This will fall with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada (Canadian version of the NTSB). "Transport Canada" is like the FAA. I hope I'm not speaking out of my @$$.

Correct.

Latest TSB update. The aircraft had no CVR or FDR and neither was required. That will probably complicate the investigation.
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/co...viation/2016/a16a0032-20160330.asp

Another lengthy article a few years ago on the MU-2 safety issues:
http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safet...AA_Inaction/whatswrongwithMU2.html

I'm curious what rules permit a U.S.-registered aircraft to carry paying passengers (I assume they chartered the aircraft) between points in Canada? Was it leased by a Canadian operator? I know that's permitted under Canadian rules subject to certain restrictions on the percentage of the total fleet that's foreign-registered and there are time limits for use of a leased aircraft that isn't registered in Canada.
 
MANYUL
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting vio (Reply 26):
I don't think Transport Canada has anything to do with the investigation (for now). This will fall with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada (Canadian version of the NTSB). "Transport Canada" is like the FAA. I hope I'm not speaking out of my @$$.

Thanks for clarifying. I must have misheard the agency name when discussing with a colleague. Anyway engine crates are being sent out to the island so the engines can be repatriated.

Aero Teknic, company owned by the pilot, were operating the flight.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:41 am

Interesting ... I see the alitimeter setting was 28.84. I would be curious what was set on the altimeters. 28.84 is very low and very rare.

If they had set the more usual 29.84 out of habit, then they would be flying 1000' lower than they think they are ... and where would they hit the ground? About 3 1/2 miles on final.

And where did they hit the ground ....
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
golfradio
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:10 am

From the TSB release

Quote:
The weather at the time of the accident was light rain and mist, with a visibility of 4 km, and a cloud ceiling of 61 m. The temperature was 0°C and the winds were from the ENE at 37 KPH gusting to 56 KPH.

Approach in icing conditions. ICTS? Colgan 3407?
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 29):
Interesting ... I see the alitimeter setting was 28.84. I would be curious what was set on the altimeters. 28.84 is very low and very rare.

If they had set the more usual 29.84 out of habit, then they would be flying 1000' lower than they think they are ... and where would they hit the ground? About 3 1/2 miles on final.

And where did they hit the ground ....

I think there is definitely more to it than just a possible wrong altimeter setting. An eyewitness said the plane was sideways (one wing above the other). Plus the crash happened more like 1.5 nm final.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
Latest TSB update. The aircraft had no CVR or FDR and neither was required. That will probably complicate the investigation.
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/co...0.asp

The TSB seems to have made a mistake in one of their statements: ''The aircraft struck terrain approximately 2 km north of Îles-de-la-Madeleine Airport at approximately 11:40 a.m. local time (Atlantic Daylight Time).''

They clearly meant to say west or southwest, not north. The plane was on final for runway 07. There is nothing north of the airport, and the plane clearly crashed in a residential area.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2016-03-31 08:15:44]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
AirFiero
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:52 pm

Quoting golfradio (Reply 30):
Approach in icing conditions. ICTS? Colgan 3407?

Is the MU2 FIKI certified?
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:19 pm

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 32):
Is the MU2 FIKI certified?

Yes, but ...
See the iasa article cited in reply 27.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
beechnut
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:06 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
I'm curious what rules permit a U.S.-registered aircraft to carry paying passengers (I assume they chartered the aircraft) between points in Canada? Was it leased by a Canadian operator? I know that's permitted under Canadian rules subject to certain restrictions on the percentage of the total fleet that's foreign-registered and there are time limits for use of a leased aircraft that isn't registered in Canada.

It is possible to use US-registered aircraft to carry pax in Canada. After all CP Air did it for many years with 3 leased United DC-10-10s (CP sent 3 DC-10-30s to United as they did not need the extended range on all routes, and United needed some -30s for longer routes). I knew CP Air DC-10 captain many years ago when this occurred and he mentioned he had to get his American licence to be able to fly an N-reg aircraft, but that it was just a formality, obtained on the basis of his Canadian licence.

That said it has come out in the local news that the pilot and owner of the aircraft was a personal friend of Mr. Lapierre who was flying with his family out to the funeral of his father. The pilot offered to fly them out. I don't know how much money changed hands, but it could be just on a cost-sharing basis. Pilot gets to build time on the machine, and pax get to their destination quickly.

There's also a local skydiving club (Farnham, Quebec) that fly an N-registered Twin Otter as their main drop aircraft, and they also had N-registered Shorts and other aircraft at various times.

As in all investigations for sure they will look closely at the paperwork for this aircraft and flight.

Beech
 
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longhauler
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RE: Private Plane Crash In The Magdalen Islands (YGR)

Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:32 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
An eyewitness said the plane was sideways (one wing above the other).

No, it was in level flight, with both engines running.

The (almost) entirely intact cockpit and instrument panels are being shipped to Ottawa presently for investigation. The aircraft was not equipped with a GPWS.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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