Southwest LGB Service

airliner371 · Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:24 pm

Southwest will announce on Thursday what routes it plans to add from LGB.

http://www.presstelegram.com/busines...will-fly-out-of-long-beach-airport

a380787 · Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:27 pm

So what's the guess? 2 LAS 1 OAK 1 PHX ?

airliner371 · Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:27 pm

My guess is 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Apparently they plan on starting flights to LGB before the summer. http://www.gazettes.com/news/southwe...0-f5e9-11e5-a22d-83f99713728a.html

[Edited 2016-03-29 13:37:00]

wnflyguy · Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:52 pm

I'm predicting a July 4 th start date! Giving LGB the Freedom from bag fees , change fees and the freedom to connect to more than 80 WN destination.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):

I agree I see OAK,DEN and LAS or lose DEN and add a MDW.

.............................06:50 am OAK

OAK 10:20 am 11:15 am DEN

LAS 12:20 pm 01:15 pm LAS

DEN 05:30 pm 06:15 pm OAK

OAK 09:40 pm .......................

Flyguy

ouboy79 · Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:24 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 3):
I'm predicting a July 4 th start date! Giving LGB the Freedom from bag fees , change fees and the freedom to connect to more than 80 WN destination.

Guess you should hope the press is wrong otherwise your July 4th date is DOA.

DeltaXNA · Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:18 am

Any chance of PHX from LGB?

BeachBoy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:32 am

My predictions:
DAL, HOU, DEN, MDW

Maximizes "connections" and doesn't compete w/ B6.

avi8 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:56 am

But that wouldn't allow many west coast connections (going all the way to Denver isn't really convenient). At least one west coast "hub" like OAK, PHX or LAS seems logical.

wnflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 4):

May 8th 1971 was the first day the Queen Mary opened to the public in the port of long beach.

So I can see opening service to on MAY 8th 2016 giving the Air Port of Long Beach connection to 71 southwest destinations.

Flyguy

ASFlyer · Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:18 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 3):
I'm predicting a July 4 th start date! Giving LGB the Freedom from bag fees , change fees and the freedom to connect to more than 80 WN destination.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8):
May 8th 1971 was the first day the Queen Mary opened to the public in the port of long beach.

So I can see opening service to on MAY 8th 2016 giving the Air Port of Long Beach connection to 71 southwest destinations.

You're just guessing at this stuff, aren't you?

ouboy79 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:23 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9):
You're just guessing at this stuff, aren't you?

Hasn't it been this way for like 5 years now?

usflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8):
May 8th 1971 was the first day the Queen Mary opened to the public in the port of long beach.

So I can see opening service to on MAY 8th 2016 giving the Air Port of Long Beach connection to 71 southwest destinations.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9):
You're just guessing at this stuff, aren't you?

From the article, "The Dallas-based airline plans to make those details public during a Thursday morning media conference at the Queen Mary."

This guess could be a good guess since the press event is at the Queen Mary.

usflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:06 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8):
May 8th 1971 was the first day the Queen Mary opened to the public in the port of long beach.

and $71 launch fares?

BeachBoy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:38 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 7):
But that wouldn't allow many west coast connections (going all the way to Denver isn't really convenient). At least one west coast "hub" like OAK, PHX or LAS seems logical

But with only 4 slots they are not gonna be able to compete w/ B6 on frequency up and down the West Coast so I think they're gonna start by going after the Rockies/Midwest/South/East Coast markets via DEN/MDW/DAL and international via HOU all of which don't have service to LGB.

mtnwest1979 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:18 am

I say 1 DAL, 1 MDW, 2x DEN.

wnflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:08 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9):

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 10):

Hahahahaha yes!

I went with July 4 with 4 flights with freedom overtones WN loves to market things with.

Then it was mentioned in the press release service would start before summer.

So With the historical Date of May 8 1971 the day the ship opened up for tourists in Long Beach and the News conference at the Queen Mary.
This will give WN just over 30 days of Sale time for the new Market. They could start with $19 fares on the nonstops and offer $71 to connecting destinations.

WN has a history of doing a play on words and dates when it comes to marketing stuff.

Either way it's Awesome to see a childhood dream come to life.

Flyguy

[Edited 2016-03-30 07:27:38]

enilria · Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:55 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):
My guess is 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 3):
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):

I agree I see OAK,DEN and LAS or lose DEN and add a MDW.

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 6):
My predictions:
DAL, HOU, DEN, MDW

Maximizes "connections" and doesn't compete w/ B6.

If you think about it, the only reason to fly to LGB is to take share back from B6. So, it would make sense only for them to fly only where B6 operates. I think that pushes them toward OAK/SFO and LAS. Maybe 3 to OAK/SFO and 1 to LAS. That would give them a competitive schedule as B6 has about 3 flights to OAK and 3 to SFO. The 1 LAS would be poor for schedule competitiveness, but one well timed mid-day LAS is enough in a market like that with limited loyalty.

travelin man · Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:59 pm

I will guess 2x OAK 1x DEN and 1x DAL.

wnflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:09 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):

I could see 2 OAK and 2 LAS.

Easily done with 1 and 1/2 aircraft flow.

LGB-OAK 6:50-8:20 OAK-LGB 9:05-10:25 LGB-LAS 11:10-12:20 LAS-LGB 13:05-14:15
LGB-LAS 15:00-16:10 LAS-LGB 17:05-18:15 LGB-OAK 19:00-20:20 a/c RONs in OAK

Early term a/c in OAK at 19:30 now turns out to LGB at 20:25-21:45.

I'm doing my guessing using all 737-800 aircraft getting the most bang for the buck out of 4 daily flights.

Flyguy

enilria · Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:12 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Reply 16):

I could see 2 OAK and 2 LAS.

The problem is that WN tends to only outperform the competition when they have a frequency advantage and 2 OAK's would give them a weaker schedule. I don't think frequency is as important to LAS as it is a leisure market.

LAXintl · Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:29 pm

As head of network at another airline once told me, with limited schedule you really need to decide who you want to sell the flights to, which part of O&D you want as primary point of sale.

If Southwest wants to market to LB residents then it needs a strong solid business schedule to a destination with good frequency to lure them away from current LAX or SNA flights. Having a few random flights to different destinations wont do much to move the needle.
But if Southwest however instead simply wants to show LGB as another destination option for those coming to SoCal then it can offer a lower frequency option to multiple markets that connect across the larger network.

a380787 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):

If Southwest wants to market to LB residents then it needs a strong solid business schedule to a destination with good frequency to lure them away from current LAX or SNA flights. Having a few random flights to different destinations wont do much to move the needle.
But if Southwest however instead simply wants to show LGB as another destination option for those coming to SoCal then it can offer a lower frequency option to multiple markets that connect across the larger network.

With only 4 slots allocated for WN, it seems that the latter scenario you've presented is far more likely. There's no way to win business mind-share with 4 slots, even if they were 100% dedicated to a single destination, e.g. SF Bay Area.

cageyjames · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:23 pm

Honestly I see 4x OAK. SNA/LAX/BUR/ONT all can handle trips to the east.

INFINITI329 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:31 pm

LAS or PHX has to be in the mix

a380787 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 6):
My predictions:
DAL, HOU, DEN, MDW

For an airline that specializes in p2p high-RASM 1 hour hops, those 4 routes will be very far from their corporate strategy, even if they're all large "stations" / "focus cities".

At least 3 out of 4 slots would be allocated to airports within CA+NV+AZ. If they want connections out east, LAS+PHX has plenty already.

wnflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):

They could easily do 3 OAK with a daily MDW or DEN.

I'm also hearing start date of the first week of June.

Flyguy

cschleic · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:42 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
If Southwest wants to market to LB residents then it needs a strong solid business schedule to a destination with good frequency to lure them away from current LAX or SNA flights. Having a few random flights to different destinations wont do much to move the needle.
But if Southwest however instead simply wants to show LGB as another destination option for those coming to SoCal then it can offer a lower frequency option to multiple markets that connect across the larger network.

The only problem with the latter scenario is, travelers from other parts of the country may not know about LGB and may not look for it or find it. True, there are packages, etc., But I've run into regular travelers from the east coast who've never heard of SNA, for example, and didn't know about its location and volume of flights. Maybe it would work better for the originating side of the L.A. basin connecting throughout the WN system.

Coronado990 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:45 pm

My guess is that they will serve two markets without any current non-stops...2 flights to DEN and 2 flights to SJC.

ScottB · Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
If Southwest wants to market to LB residents then it needs a strong solid business schedule to a destination with good frequency to lure them away from current LAX or SNA flights. Having a few random flights to different destinations wont do much to move the needle.

I don't see LGB as having enough mind share outside of California, and more specifically the Southland, to drive passenger preference for the airport, especially when better schedule choices are offered to LAX, SNA, & BUR.

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 22):
Honestly I see 4x OAK. SNA/LAX/BUR/ONT all can handle trips to the east.

It doesn't hurt that WN can offer connections to about a dozen other markets at OAK.

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:17 pm

its so funny for Southwest to want LGB given they will never have many slots. The southwest model is usually to only serve cities they can have a minimum number of flights and LGB will never be that.

They are an airline that sees opportunity and pounces and LGB is definitely a very limited opportunity. They cant serve high enough number but i guess are just going for it while a decent number of slots are possible. I think its no risk for Southwest they can fill those planes they have so many fans in the LA area. Its just another airport and a chance to get slots while they can. I will personally take advantage of this new service as i LOVE LGB airport, so insanely convenient and easy to get in/out of.

AAlaxfan · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:18 pm

2x PHX, 2x LAS

Do all catering in PHX and LAS

Arrivals Departures

9:00 - 10:30 LAS-LGB 11:00 - 12:30 LGB-LAS
2:00 - 3:30 LAS-LGB 4:00 - 5:30 LGB-LAS

10:00 -11:30 PHX-LGB 12:00 - 1:30 LGB-PHX
3:00 - 4:30 PHX -LGB 5:00 - 6:30 LGB-PHX

Workforce arrives at 8:45 and leaves at 5:45 one shift.

My

airliner371 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 29):
The southwest model is usually to only serve cities they can have a minimum number of flights and LGB will never be that.

You're talking about the old Southwest. Southwest now operates service to many airports with just a few flights a day and LGB will be just another. Plus LGB will certainly be contracted out on the ground which will help a lot.

[Edited 2016-03-30 12:25:12]

SWADawg · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:33 pm

It's not like WN will be stuck with just 4 slots in perpetuity. Eventually LGB will reevaluate and release more slots that WN and other Airlines will be able to bid on. How do you think WN gradually acquired their impressive portfolio of SNA slots. Patience grasshopper.

jmc1975 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting aalaxfan (Reply 30):
2x PHX, 2x LAS

Do all catering in PHX and LAS

AA is already at PHX, and WN is starting to feel the pressure there. AA has been keeping WN's growth at PHX in check, similar to what WN experienced at PHL, and CLT to a lesser extent.

mercure1 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:40 pm

Is Los Angeles the only market where any airline service so many airports?

[Edited 2016-03-30 12:40:35]

LAXintl · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:41 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 26):
The only problem with the latter scenario is, travelers from other parts of the country may not know about LGB and may not look for it or find it. True, there are packages, etc., But I've run into regular travelers from the east coast who've never heard of SNA, for example, and didn't know about its location and volume of flights. Maybe it would work better for the originating side of the L.A. basin connecting throughout the WN system.

Well the way the southwest.com works is that that unless you specifiy only a single airport, the current 4 LA basin airports are listed under "Los Angeles" banner which gives the consumer visibility and choice.

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 32):

It's not like WN will be stuck with just 4 slots in perpetuity. Eventually LGB will reevaluate and release more slots that WN and other Airlines will be able to bid on.

Actually keep in mind the number of slots might decrease at LGB once the next noise budget is analyzed.

All airlines being issued slots this year have been told, these slots are the first ones to be withdrawn should airport noise increase pushing cumulative noise above the allowed maximum.

a380787 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:45 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):

Well the way the southwest.com works is that that unless you specifiy only a single airport, the current 4 LA basin airports are listed under "Los Angeles" banner which gives the consumer visibility and choice.

How can one get that done for WAS or NYC or SF regions ? It seems that southwest.com wants me to search LGA EWR ISP or DCA BWI or SFO OAK SJC all separately.

SurfandSnow · Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:54 pm

WN publicly stated that it considered the Bay Area to be "underserved" from LGB. As such I've been expecting something like a 3x daily OAK service all along, likely complemented by DEN for network connectivity purposes (not to mention the benefit of being a niche route free of direct competition).

INFINITI329 · Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:07 pm

Quoting aalaxfan (Reply 30):
Workforce arrives at 8:45 and leaves at 5:45 one shift.

it will contracted out more than likely, so WN really wouldn't care about that

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 32):
It's not like WN will be stuck with just 4 slots in perpetuity. Eventually LGB will reevaluate and release more slots that WN and other Airlines will be able to bid on. How do you think WN gradually acquired their impressive portfolio of SNA slots. Patience grasshopper.

If B6 succeeds in acquiring VX, Im pretty sure a draw down at LGB would be coming and WN would be first in line to ask for those slots from B6.

usflyguy · Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:07 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
How can one get that done for WAS or NYC or SF regions ? It seems that southwest.com wants me to search LGA EWR ISP or DCA BWI or SFO OAK SJC all separately.

southwest.com does do that for "New York Area Airports" when you type in New York, New Jersey, Jersey, Manhattan, Long Island, etc., etc., etc. or if you type in any one of the three new york area airports all three (EWR, LGA, ISP) will pop up.

same thing for SFO, OAK, SJC. If you type in any one of those cities, all three will pop up as "San Francisco Area Airports".

Washington, D.C. Area Airports (IAD, DCA, BWI) all pop up when you type in any one of the three codes for IAD, DCA, BWI, or if you type in Washington, Maryland, Baltimore, Dulles, Reagan, National.

CalTex · Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:20 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 34):
Is Los Angeles the only market where any airline service so many airports?

The only two examples that come to mind are JetBlue in New York City (JFK, LGA, EWR, SWF, HPN) and EasyJet in London if they can ever get some Heathrow slots (LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, SEN). Of course, there's always the debate whether SWF, HPN, and SEN truly deserve to be called "New York" or "London" airports...

PlanesNTrains · Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:28 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 25):
They could easily do 3 OAK with a daily MDW or DEN.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 37):
I've been expecting something like a 3x daily OAK service all along, likely complemented by DEN for network connectivity purposes (not to mention the benefit of being a niche route free of direct competition).

Ya, OAK x 3 and DEN x 1 seems pretty solid to me.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
All airlines being issued slots this year have been told, these slots are the first ones to be withdrawn should airport noise increase pushing cumulative noise above the allowed maximum.

I guess B6 needs to get a couple 737 classics and start running them through LGB - that'll flush WN out in about a year.

-Dave

icebird757 · Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:44 am

I was told by Southwest employee that the station will be contracted out for both above and below the wing.

flyiguy · Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:55 am

Quoting icebird757 (Reply 42):
I was told by Southwest employee that the station will be contracted out for both above and below the wing.

Yes, most that have less than 12 flights a day WN uses contract employees unless they were already staffed with WN staff prior to going below the 12 flight a day mark. Some exceptions are out there though.

FLY

wnflyguy · Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:07 pm

Start date. June 5 th
LGB-OAK 7:00am- 8:20 am
10:30am -11:50am
2:15pm - 3:35pm
5:00pm- 6:20pm

OAK-LGB. 8:35am-10:00am
12:20pm-1:45pm
3:05pm-4:30pm
7:35pm-9:00pm
Flyguy

SWADawg · Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:15 pm

Went all in on OAK. I think that's the right decision with the limited number of slots they were awarded. I'm sure other cities will be announced if WN is able to secure any more slots in the future.

a380787 · Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:06 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 44):

Start date. June 5 th
LGB-OAK 7:00am- 8:20 am
10:30am -11:50am
2:15pm - 3:35pm
5:00pm- 6:20pm

OAK-LGB. 8:35am-10:00am
12:20pm-1:45pm
3:05pm-4:30pm
7:35pm-9:00pm
Flyguy

So pretty much everyone up thread guessed incorrectly =)

cageyjames · Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:25 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 46):
So pretty much everyone up thread guessed incorrectly =)

A couple of us were on the point that this makes the most sense given WN's coverage of the southland. LAS/PHX/DEN all can be handled by LAX, BUR, ONT and SNA.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:33 pm

I think this makes sense. WN is trying to target the bay area with their limited number of slots. OAK offers a pretty extensive list of connections options as well. Makes sense to me to stick to one airport. Much like how an airport like ISP they focus mostly on BWI . I think this makes sense for LGB and the best to compete with Jetblue. If i were jetblue i might consider San Jose now from LGB even if you have to reduce a OAK frequency so you have something unique. They already serve San Jose.

enilria · Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:36 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 46):
So pretty much everyone up thread guessed incorrectly =)

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
The problem is that WN tends to only outperform the competition when they have a frequency advantage and 2 OAK's would give them a weaker schedule. I don't think frequency is as important to LAS as it is a leisure market.

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
If you think about it, the only reason to fly to LGB is to take share back from B6. So, it would make sense only for them to fly only where B6 operates. I think that pushes them toward OAK/SFO and LAS. Maybe 3 to OAK/SFO and 1 to LAS.

I was very close. It would have been dumb to run 1 flight to four places as people were saying. This was about protecting their position intra-California.

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