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C010T3
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AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:19 am

It seems that AA's MIA-REC and MIA-SSA flights have been zeroed out effective the beginning of May.
Does anyone know if the plans are for a permanent pull-out of these markets or if they are going seasonal?

[Edited 2016-03-30 00:19:58]
 
SCQ83
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:07 am

How many routes to Brazil have been already cut?
 
jfk777
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:12 am

AA's system in Brazil from Miami goes to every major city, it s only logical some of the regional routes get cut with the current economic and political situation in Brazil. AA is huge into Sao Paulo and strong into Rio de Janiero, connections with LATAM are available over GRU to about 100 cities there.
 
MCOGVADCA
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
How many routes to Brazil have been already cut?

Orlando has lost a bunch. Azul cut CNF and opted not to start GRU. DL briefly had MCO-BSB, but that's gone. TAM is cutting BSB-MCO as of June. Not surprising, given the state of the economy.
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winginit
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:51 pm

MIA-SSA has been cancelled and MIA-REC will become seasonal. Announced yesterday.
 
FSDan
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:30 pm

Sales from the Brazil side are probably hurting because of the Brazilian economy, and sales from the U.S. side may be hurting because of the Zika scare...
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a380787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:33 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 5):
Sales from the Brazil side are probably hurting because of the Brazilian economy, and sales from the U.S. side may be hurting because of the Zika scare...

How much south-bound tourism is there to have Zika be a major factor ? I thought this route is mostly northbound tourism/commerce plus southbound VFR, no ?
 
jetsetter629
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:41 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
How much south-bound tourism is there to have Zika be a major factor ? I thought this route is mostly northbound tourism/commerce plus southbound VFR, no ?

It's a shame as my wife and I wanted to visit NE Brazil this year, but given we would like to start a family soon, Zika caused us to change those plans.

While there is connectivity through GRU / GIG, it quite a backtrack in the opposite direction!
 
winGl3t
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:09 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 4):
MIA-SSA has been cancelled and MIA-REC will become seasonal. Announced yesterday.

Where was it announced? I couldn't find it anywhere on AA website. Would you mind sharing a link?
 
jfkgig
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:15 pm

Really disappointing that this couldn't work. The economy might have crippled travel originating in Brazil, but I just can't believe that there isn't untapped demand from North America to what is truly one of the world's greatest beach resort areas. North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando do Noronha. The Miami flight made these areas much more accessible than forcing passengers through GIG or GRU.
 
a380787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 9):

Really disappointing that this couldn't work. The economy might have crippled travel originating in Brazil, but I just can't believe that there isn't untapped demand from North America to what is truly one of the world's greatest beach resort areas. North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando do Noronha. The Miami flight made these areas much more accessible than forcing passengers through GIG or GRU.

If you're referring to BKK and Thai beaches, people who go there have "ulterior motives" that's nothing related to the beach at all.
 
rwsea
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:29 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 9):

Really disappointing that this couldn't work. The economy might have crippled travel originating in Brazil, but I just can't believe that there isn't untapped demand from North America to what is truly one of the world's greatest beach resort areas. North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando do Noronha. The Miami flight made these areas much more accessible than forcing passengers through GIG or GRU.

The visa requirements for US travellers certainly don't help. You can say what you want about US Visa policy (yes it's completely broken, the process is unfair and onerous, and is expensive), but Brazil's reciprocity policy certainly hurts US tourism to Brazil. I'd love to visit Brazil but having to apply for and wait for a Visa is a major hassle. Colombia and Peru are much simpler alternatives at the moment. I'd apply for a Brazilian visa for an extended trip throughout the country, but am unlikely to incur the time and expense of getting a visa for a shorter jaunt to the beach.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:30 pm

Whoa, this just leaves AA serving BSB, CNF, GIG, GRU and MAO. As recently as 2008 AA's Brazilian ops were limited to just GIG and GRU - looks like they aren't very far from retrenching all the way back to those 2 markets.
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SCQ83
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:30 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 10):
If you're referring to BKK and Thai beaches, people who go there have "ulterior motives" that's nothing related to the beach at all.

Thailand is cheap, hotels, airports and malls are are good, it is exotic, food is great and it is very safe... how can Brazil compete with that?
 
a380787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:33 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 13):

Thailand is cheap, hotels, airports and malls are are good, it is exotic, food is great and it is very safe... how can Brazil compete with that?

Right now, it's all about the cheap BRL, quoting at 1 USD to 3.61 BRL / 1 EUR to 4.09 BRL. Can't imagine going out of my way to visit Brazilian beaches when it was 1 USD to like 1.6 BRL.
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:35 pm

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 7):
While there is connectivity through GRU / GIG, it quite a backtrack in the opposite direction!

That's what makes it real unfortunate. The same goes for Northern Brazil-EU.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
a380787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:36 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 15):

That's what makes it real unfortunate. The same goes for Northern Brazil-EU.

Doesn't TP still fly to multiple airports in NE Brazil ?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 12):
Whoa, this just leaves AA serving BSB, CNF, GIG, GRU and MAO. As recently as 2008 AA's Brazilian ops were limited to just GIG and GRU - looks like they aren't very far from retrenching all the way back to those 2 markets.

AA will still serve REC seasonally. But, then again, VCP was suspended "seasonally" and I doubt it is coming back. CNF and BSB are still at 100,000+ annual passengers and I would say are likely safe. BSB is almost as large a local market as GIG. MAO is just as close to Los Angeles and an A319, so cheap to operate, and has a much stronger U.S.-originating component due to Manaus position as a gateway to Amazon tourism, so it's more reliant on how healthy American tourism to the region is doing.
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winginit
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:38 pm

Quoting winGl3t (Reply 8):
Where was it announced? I couldn't find it anywhere on AA website. Would you mind sharing a link?

I can't put my hand on the link, the below is a screenshot from the comm:

 
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LAXintl
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:10 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 9):
Really disappointing that this couldn't work. The economy might have crippled travel originating in Brazil, but I just can't believe that there isn't untapped demand from North America to what is truly one of the world's greatest beach resort areas. North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando do Noronha. The Miami flight made these areas much more accessible than forcing passengers through GIG or GRU.

Brazil unfortunately is not a welcoming country for Americans. It does very little to market itself and attract American visitors, and instead puts of roadblocks like the reciprocity fee. Even when one arrives its tourism sector is not set up well for Americans with minimal English spoken at even hotels let alone out and about in restaurants and stores.

As result doubt Brazil is hardly on many peoples mind when looking at vacations as it simply is not a destination market well known. And these days what is known about Brazil is all negatives - zika, demonstrations, economic mess, political mess, corruption, unsafe etc.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SCQ83
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:19 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 14):
Right now, it's all about the cheap BRL, quoting at 1 USD to 3.61 BRL / 1 EUR to 4.09 BRL. Can't imagine going out of my way to visit Brazilian beaches when it was 1 USD to like 1.6 BRL.

Still, infrastructure is not well suited for Western tourists and safety is a major issue. I would have expected that tourism in Rio would increase (specially with the Olympics "effect") but I don't have that impression.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Even when one arrives its tourism sector is not set up well for Americans with minimal English spoken at even hotels let alone out and about in restaurants and stores.

This is especially true in northeast Brazil. I encountered enough English-speakers in Rio and Sao Paulo to get by, but went for days without hearing English in Salvador, Recife and Fortaleza. I don't speak Portuguese, so had to fall back in Spanish, which meant I was usually understood (but had no clue what people were saying in reply; the two languages really only cognate in one direction.)

A shame as northeast Brazil is really breathtaking. Fernando de Noronha's beaches are some of the most spectacular in the world, Recife's Boa Viagem is an outstanding urban beach, and Salvador - despite some unseemliness - is a fascinating city. Sorry to see AA retrenching from these markets - the routes lasted quite awhile, though, so hopefully if/as things improve in Brazil they'll be restored quickly.
 
OB1504
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:20 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 11):
The visa requirements for US travellers certainly don't help. You can say what you want about US Visa policy (yes it's completely broken, the process is unfair and onerous, and is expensive), but Brazil's reciprocity policy certainly hurts US tourism to Brazil. I'd love to visit Brazil but having to apply for and wait for a Visa is a major hassle. Colombia and Peru are much simpler alternatives at the moment. I'd apply for a Brazilian visa for an extended trip throughout the country, but am unlikely to incur the time and expense of getting a visa for a shorter jaunt to the beach.

Brazil is waiving the visa requirement for the Olympics this summer and that doesn't seem to have been enough to save the routes.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Brazil unfortunately is not a welcoming country for Americans. It does very little to market itself and attract American visitors, and instead puts of roadblocks like the reciprocity fee.

The reciprocity fee was for Argentina and has since been rescinded. Brazil requires Americans to get a full visa.
 
guyanam
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:21 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 21):

I agree, and with Cartagena becoming increasingly popular Brazil is becoming even less of interest.

In addition the bad PR with the various protests in Rio doesn't help, nor does the fact that apparently drug dealers have shut down part of the city in times past.

Pity as Brazil is a fascinating country. The visa issue could be surmounted if they had a visa on entry system as do other countries, but the reality is that Brazil isn't so unique to allow people to jump through hoops to go there.
 
winginit
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:23 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 22):
Brazil is waiving the visa requirement for the Olympics this summer and that doesn't seem to have been enough to save the routes.

These routes would be in trouble even if the visa and reciprocity requirements had been waived a year or more ago. Listening to the US3's earnings calls it's clear that Brazil is an absolute bloodbath (YoY yields down something to the tune of 30%+), and the fares show as much.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:34 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 22):
The reciprocity fee was for Argentina and has since been rescinded. Brazil requires Americans to get a full visa.

Which cost $160 USD !

Imagine the added cost for a family to vacation in Brazil? They could take that money and put it towards another more welcoming destination.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:42 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 23):
Pity as Brazil is a fascinating country. The visa issue could be surmounted if they had a visa on entry system as do other countries, but the reality is that Brazil isn't so unique to allow people to jump through hoops to go there.

My biggest concern about Brazil is safety. I've been to the likes of Ecuador, Nepal, South Africa, Bolivia, Peru, etc in the last ten years. Despite being an experienced traveler in challenging countries, Brazil concerns me a bit. I talked to one traveler who got mugged on a crowded beach in Salvador and no-one came to his assist, despite being in broad daylight in front of masses of people. I do agree it sounds like a fascinating country.
 
OB1504
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:44 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
How many routes to Brazil have been already cut?

These will be the fourth and fifth for AA out of MIA alone, joining MIA-VCP, MIA-CWB, and MIA-POA.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Which cost $160 USD !

Imagine the added cost for a family to vacation in Brazil? They could take that money and put it towards another more welcoming destination.

Agreed. I meant to highlight that getting a visa is much more difficult and time-consuming than a simple reciprocity fee.
 
Freshside3
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:46 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 10):
If you're referring to BKK and Thai beaches, people who go there have "ulterior motives" that's nothing related to the beach at all.
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 13):
Thailand is cheap, hotels, airports and malls are are good, it is exotic, food is great and it is very safe... how can Brazil compete with that?

Sex tourism also exists in Brazil, too.
 
rwsea
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:51 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 23):
The visa issue could be surmounted if they had a visa on entry system as do other countries, but the reality is that Brazil isn't so unique to allow people to jump through hoops to go there.


Brazil's policy is strictly applied to American tourists as retribution for our government requiring Brazilians to get visas (Europeans don't need a visa, for example). Argentina and Chile had the "reciprocity fee" which was annoying, but you paid it and that was that. Brazil purposely makes US citizens go through all the hoops simply because the US government does it to them. I understand the logic because US visas are expensive and time-consuming to get, but seems like the Brazilian government is shooting themselves in the foot. And until Brazil changes this "cutting off our nose to spite our face" policy, I don't see any reason why they'd simplify the process to visa on arrival.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Which cost $160 USD !

And involves a lot of forms, gathering and sending in documentation, mailing your passport to the embassy, etc. etc. If it was just the fee, at least you could make a spontaneous visit to Brazil or plan ahead without the visa. The visa really makes things a lot harder and turns off a lot of people.

----------------

Back to the topic at hand, it is a shame that these flights are being cut as they made it much easier to reach Northern Brazil. Hopefully they come back when the economic situation improves.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:18 am

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 9):
North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando do Noronha.

They surely don´t compare. Urban beaches in Brazil are polluted and virtually every tourist in a major city in the NE must wake up a 6AM and jump on an excursion, just to be trapped on a resort far from the city if they actually want to have a dip in the ocean.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 16):
Doesn't TP still fly to multiple airports in NE Brazil ?

But unlike MIA´s extensive network in North America, LIS offers relatively limited connection opportunities to Europe.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:45 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 27):
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
How many routes to Brazil have been already cut?

These will be the fourth and fifth for AA out of MIA alone, joining MIA-VCP, MIA-CWB, and MIA-POA.

AA cut DFW-GIG too.
 
LHLX
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:08 am

Sao Paulo gets a lot of premium traffic. LH fly there with the 747-800, BA use their premium heavy 744 (with the v large C-class), AF use a 4-class plane and LX's 343 is also configured premium heavy. The last two times I was in Brazil I flew LH back from GRU. C was 3/4 full, F was totally full....but Y had 120 free seats....this was the case in July 2013 and November 2015. Of course these could be just coincidences but I heard many cases (flight attendant friends at LH, LX, AF and BA) where the GRU flights are full up front but not full in the back. AA and UA also have F-class on some of their GRU flights.

With Rio (with the exception of BA and LH) it's a slightly different story. I think the key to make Brazil flights (other than GRU) work at the moment appears to be using planes that are not premium heavy. AF uses its 777-300 without F class to GIG (and their 332s), TP has only a small C-class in its planes that fly to places all over Brazil including "secondary destinations" in the North and even far South, IB also uses planes with a relatively small amount of C-class seats, and I think AA and UA also don't have F-class on their GIG flights anymore, and those flights seem to work for them.

The "other airports" in Brazil (everything not GRU and GIG) have even less premium traffic. TAP can make it work cause their flights from Viracopos/Campinas, Brasilia, Fortaleza, Manaus, Natal, Salvador, Porto Alegre, Belo Horizonte and Recife connect in LIS to their European network. Again, their 343s and 332s are not configured premium-heavy. And Condor seems to be successful also. Granted, they have very little flights to Brazil, but their 767s operations with a small c-class and to tourist destinations seems to work for them. They started with SSA, added REC....some years later FOR and now even GIG.

The reciprocal visa policy of Brazil vv USA is probably one of them main negative effects that caused AA to suspend or make seasonal their non-premium destinations in Brazil (with some other factors that were mentioned here before)
However, I think secondary destinations in Brazil can be served with the right plane, especially if they are not flown daily and if they offer good connections.
I could see LH downgrading their daily GIG flights from 747-800 to 747-400 or 343 and start 3-4 weekly flights to campinas/viracopos and/or Brasilia and connect with flights of Azul and/or Avianca Brazil.
Brasilia flights seem to work for Air France and TAP ...

But time and the economic crisis will tell us more...
 
commavia
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:45 pm

Very sad, indeed.

Brazil is a nice country with friendly people and a fascinating history and culture. But that being said, the economic conditions there have clearly become untenable for AA outside of some of the largest "core" markets. And as said, between Zika, safety concerns and the reciprocity fee, it's also not the easiest place on earth for U.S. tourists, which is quite unfortunate given how much it has to offer.

I do also wonder how the AA network to Brazil will evolve in the context of an ATI/JV with TAM.
 
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United787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:17 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 9):
North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando do Noronha.

I have been to Brazil (including Fernando) and Thailand and much preferred Brazil's beaches. Most American's are travelling to Florida, Mexico and the Caribbean, not Asia.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 10):
If you're referring to BKK and Thai beaches, people who go there have "ulterior motives" that's nothing related to the beach at all.

This is a bizarre statement... sure some that goto Thailand, but most go for the normal tourist reasons. I also din't find Thailand's beaches to be particularly clean.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 11):
The visa requirements for US travellers certainly don't help. You can say what you want about US Visa policy (yes it's completely broken, the process is unfair and onerous, and is expensive), but Brazil's reciprocity policy certainly hurts US tourism to Brazil.

That is very true, Brazil is only hurting itself with this...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Brazil unfortunately is not a welcoming country for Americans. It does very little to market itself and attract American visitors, and instead puts of roadblocks like the reciprocity fee. Even when one arrives its tourism sector is not set up well for Americans with minimal English spoken at even hotels let alone out and about in restaurants and stores.



Agreed, Brazil doesn't seem to market here at all, but I wouldn't say they are unwelcoming to Americans. In fact, I found just the opposite. I found the Brazilian people to be some of the most genuinely warm and hospitable people I have met. Since they don't get a ton of Americans there, they seemed to more genuinely happy we were there, almost a novelty. Although Thai people are very warm and friendly, I didn't get the impression it was genuine, more of their cultural norm. No, English isn't as widely spoken as many other countries, but I wouldn't expect it to be from such a large country. I don't expect everyone around the world to speak my language. . Spanish is a much more familiar language for Americans so even those that don't speak it can get by easier in Spanish speaking countries. That said, I got by just fine and I don't speak Spanish.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 21):
A shame as northeast Brazil is really breathtaking. Fernando de Noronha's beaches are some of the most spectacular in the world, Recife's Boa Viagem is an outstanding urban beach, and Salvador - despite some unseemliness - is a fascinating city.



I wouldn't swim at Rio's beaches but I did at a beautiful beach in a small rustic town north of Salvador and it was amazing. I also went scuba diving in Fernando in the clearest water I have ever been in. I swear I could see a couple of hundred yards...
 
a380787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 34):

This is a bizarre statement... sure some that goto Thailand, but most go for the normal tourist reasons. I also din't find Thailand's beaches to be particularly clean.

But you do realize that Thailand has one of the highest "tryst tourism" numbers globally ?
 
usflyer msp
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Brazil unfortunately is not a welcoming country for Americans. It does very little to market itself and attract American visitors, and instead puts of roadblocks like the reciprocity fee. Even when one arrives its tourism sector is not set up well for Americans with minimal English spoken at even hotels let alone out and about in restaurants and stores.

As result doubt Brazil is hardly on many peoples mind when looking at vacations as it simply is not a destination market well known. And these days what is known about Brazil is all negatives - zika, demonstrations, economic mess, political mess, corruption, unsafe etc.

My brother lives in Recife and most of the American tourists he sees there (or especially in SSA) are usually 50+ year-old black men. Northeastern Brazil is to old African-American sex tourists what Thailand or Vietnam is to old white sex tourists. They love it - its like a giant 5 for 1 sale compared to American hookers and they will even clean your house, cook, and wash your underwear for that price. He has become friends with a few of them that come every year...
 
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United787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 35):
But you do realize that Thailand has one of the highest "tryst tourism" numbers globally ?

That may be so, but that doesn't mean that is why a majority of tourists travel to Thailand... Have you been there? I was in Railay Beach, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai & Bangkok. Most of the tourists I saw were couples and families. Of course I didn't go to the areas that are known for that.

BTW, the reason most people goto Amsterdam is NOT for the red light districts and coffee shops...sure a lot go for those reasons but not nearly most.
 
a380787
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 37):

That may be so, but that doesn't mean that is why a majority of tourists travel to Thailand... Have you been there? I was in Railay Beach, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai & Bangkok. Most of the tourists I saw were couples and families. Of course I didn't go to the areas that are known for that.

Yea I've been to BKK a few years back, and has rather low interest to repeat. Maybe visit CNX or USM in the future, but not really into BKK.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:30 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
My biggest concern about Brazil is safety. I've been to the likes of Ecuador, Nepal, South Africa, Bolivia, Peru, etc in the last ten years. Despite being an experienced traveler in challenging countries, Brazil concerns me a bit

If you can handle those places, you can handle most of Brazil. In Rio, Sao Paulo and points south, it's a matter of knowing enough to stay out of the wrong neighborhoods. There's areas of Paris, London and Los Angeles I wouldn't go into, and it's the same in Brazil.

Fares out of MIA, IAH and NYC to Brazil have been in the gutter the last 6 months. I can't see how airlines are making a profit on these routes. Sad to see service to the NE go, but it's a wise business decision I'm sure.
 
airDFW
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:44 pm

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 11):
The visa requirements for US travellers certainly don't help. You can say what you want about US Visa policy (yes it's completely broken, the process is unfair and onerous, and is expensive), but Brazil's reciprocity policy certainly hurts US tourism to Brazil. I'd love to visit Brazil but having to apply for and wait for a Visa is a major hassle. Colombia and Peru are much simpler alternatives at the moment. I'd apply for a Brazilian visa for an extended trip throughout the country, but am unlikely to incur the time and expense of getting a visa for a shorter jaunt to the beach.


BR is shooting themselves. When you are hurting, you do everything to make money, get people employed. Tourism is one of the mass employment generator.

BR congress wake up, open up the visa policy to the "el Norte" (?) to make it easier for US and Canadians to visit.
 
jfkgig
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:59 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 30):

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 9):
North Americans will travel all the way to Asia to sit on beaches that don't compare to those in Northeastern Brazil, not to mention Fernando de Noronha.

They surely don´t compare. Urban beaches in Brazil are polluted and virtually every tourist in a major city in the NE must wake up a 6AM and jump on an excursion, just to be trapped on a resort far from the city if they actually want to have a dip in the ocean.

I couldn't disagree more. I searched all over Asia for the beaches I finally found in Brazil. The beaches of Transcoso, Ileus, Pipa, Jericoacoara, Fernando de Noronha are far nicer (and cleaner) than anything North Americans have access to, even at twice the distance. Even one hour from Rio, at Ilha Grande, are world-beating beaches.

[Edited 2016-03-31 20:01:12]
 
jfkgig
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:07 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 23):
Pity as Brazil is a fascinating country. The visa issue could be surmounted if they had a visa on entry system as do other countries, but the reality is that Brazil isn't so unique to allow people to jump through hoops to go there.

My biggest concern about Brazil is safety. I've been to the likes of Ecuador, Nepal, South Africa, Bolivia, Peru, etc in the last ten years. Despite being an experienced traveler in challenging countries, Brazil concerns me a bit. I talked to one traveler who got mugged on a crowded beach in Salvador and no-one came to his assist, despite being in broad daylight in front of masses of people. I do agree it sounds like a fascinating country.

If you can handle Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans, Detroit, Philadelphia, or Milwaukee, you can easily handle much safer Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:12 am

.

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 42):
If you can handle Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans, Detroit, Philadelphia, or Milwaukee, you can easily handle much safer Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.

It's not the same when you're a foreign visitor and don't speak the language.
 
dellatorre
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:00 am

Haven't seen a thread so full of stereotype and miss informed opinions like this one in a while.....I guess it's not surprising that my motivation to even reply these days is long gone...
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5831
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:27 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
It's not the same when you're a foreign visitor and don't speak the language.

It has nothing to do with language. Crime in Brazil is all over the place

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-new...tabbed-in-robbery-in-rios-centro/#

Quote:
German Tourist Stabbed in Robbery in Rio’s Centro

The Carnival tourists were attacked with a knife in the Uruguaiana region of Rio's Centro by two assailants.

RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL – A German tourist died after he had been stabbed by robbers when returning to his hotel in Rio de Janeiro’s Centro with his wife on Tuesday afternoon, February 17th. The visitors were in town to enjoy the city’s Carnival celebrations.
http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/en/g...ist-stabbed-death-copacabana-beach


Quote:
Argentine tourist stabbed to death on Copacabana beach

An Argentine tourist died after being stabbed in the early hours on Wednesday (Feb. 17), on Copacabana beach, south Rio de Janeiro, while she was being robbed. According to the Military Police, the victim was still alive when she was found by officers, who helped her and took her to Miguel Couto Municipal Hospital.

The tourist was admitted to the hospital, but succumbed to the wounds shortly afterwards. Also according to the Military Police, the agents searched the area and arrested two people suspected of murdering the Argentine woman.

So nothing to do with Chicago or Philadelphia. Foreign tourists are not targeted, assaulted and killed on Michigan Avenue or in Dilworth Park on a regular basis.

But Brazilian posters here seem in denial.
 
jfkgig
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:18 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 45):
So nothing to do with Chicago or Philadelphia. Foreign tourists are not targeted, assaulted and killed on Michigan Avenue or in Dilworth Park on a regular basis.

But Brazilian posters here seem in denial.

I think that your viewpoint is really naive. To whatever extent there are few tourists killed in Chicago and Philadelphia (and I'm not at all sure that is accurate given the sky high murder rates of these cities) it is a function of the fact that these cities are not exactly world tourism capitals (Philadelphia in particular). These sorts of things make the news in Rio because they are so out of the ordinary -- I remember it being a huge event when an Italian tourist was killed after being hit by a bus after running from a pickpocket around 10 years ago. The fact is that one is much more likely to be killed by random violence in centers of either Chicago or Philadelphia (or New Orleans, Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis, etc.) than one is to be killed by random violence in Rio de Janeiro -- yet the perceptions of North Americans are vastly different from the reality. Like New York, Rio has become a much safer city than it used to be, and even then most of the violence was in favela areas that most tourists would never be exposed to). Crime is not a good reason to avoid Rio, and unless you are coming from Switzerland, Japan, or Singapore, you are probably safer here than where you are now sitting.

I think the Zika thing is another case in point. Zika is certainly not a good thing, but -- putting aside the possible affects on unborn children which are scary but far from proven -- you would rather get it than Lyme's disease (which is endemic in the Northeastern United States) or West Nile Virus (which kills and/or paralyzes several hundred people in the United States every year). I have however yet to hear anybody canceling a trip to New York due to West Nile Virus, or a New Yorker cancel a weekend trip to the Hamptons due to Lyme's Disease, but these same people will avoid Brazil due to Zika. That is objectively ridiculous.

This is all ok with me by the way. Most places as beautiful and interesting as Rio have been inundated and ruined by tourists, and Rio has not been . . . yet. But the hypocrisy is still ridiculous.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 46):

Folks behave based on perception. The perception that Rio is a dangerous city. Whether more tourists are killed is beside the point.

I don't think that PHL is a huge destination for leisure travel, and much of the violence in CHI occurs in parts of the city less frequented by tourists.

If Brazil wishes to attract more US tourists, they need to make entry easier and deal with the perception that tourist areas have crime.

FYI New Orleans also suffers from that perception within the USA, so attracts far less tourists than it has the potential to.
 
jfkgig
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:37 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 47):
Folks behave based on perception. The perception that Rio is a dangerous city. Whether more tourists are killed is beside the point.

I don't think that PHL is a huge destination for leisure travel, and much of the violence in CHI occurs in parts of the city less frequented by tourists.

If Brazil wishes to attract more US tourists, they need to make entry easier and deal with the perception that tourist areas have crime.

FYI New Orleans also suffers from that perception within the USA, so attracts far less tourists than it has the potential to.

We don't disagree about the perception. I'm just making the point that the perception is not based upon reality. I also don't disagree that many of the hurdles to increased tourism in Brazil were needlessly placed there as a result of government mismanagement and foolishness, and represent an "own-goal' situation.

There are lots of good valid reasons not to come to Rio to see the Olympics -- the traffic, the crowds, and also that the Olympic Committee is a vulgar gang that sucks up taxpayer money, and that most of the Olympic games are absolutely boring -- but crime and health are not really valid concerns. If you are inclined to see the Olympic games, I can't imagine a better place to see them than Rio.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: AA: MIA-REC/SSA Zeroed Out

Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:47 pm

Brazil is the country with the highest homicide rate in the WORLD

almost 60,000 REPORTED homicides in 2014, up 3.8% from the previous year, considerably less actually than the average increase of over 20% annually over the last decade
Most violent State: Sao Paulo / 17 homicides A DAY
2nd most violent State: Bahia / 16 homicides A DAY, most of them in its capital Rio (15 a day)
http://www.rttnews.com/2628211/brazi...de-rates-highest-in-the-world.aspx

never mind assault, robbery, etc., the kind of crime tourists are more likely to be a victim of and often go unreported, like my brothers assault with knives in broad daylight on Copacabana

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