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Noise
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NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:06 pm

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/discount-...rate-without-air-licence-1.2837542

The Canadian Transport Agency has ruled that NewLeaf Travel can operate without an air licence, so long as it does not fly any air craft.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Congrats to NewLeaf. They were working hard to get in the air and remained active on social media in the meantime.
 
jimbo737
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:43 pm

Has anyone bothered to ask Jim Rogers at Flair Air if they are still in the deal?

They should, because they aren't. They pulled the rip cord in early January, which was the real reason New Leaf fell apart.

Unless New Leaf have found replacement equity and another supplier of lift, they remain DOA.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:38 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 2):
They pulled the rip cord in early January, which was the real reason New Leaf fell apart.

Do you have a source for that?
 
jimbo737
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:11 pm

Insider knowledge. Kelowna is a small town.
 
ACDC8
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:22 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 4):
Insider knowledge. Kelowna is a small town.

You'll have to leave it at insider knowledge because I haven't heard any of those rumours in this small town of Kelowna, nor does anyone I've talked to in the area or at the airport itself.

[Edited 2016-03-30 14:28:47]

[Edited 2016-03-30 14:29:12]

[Edited 2016-03-30 14:29:36]
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YVRLTN
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:05 am

With the crash in the oil patch, Im pretty sure Flair would jump at any business as soon as it is possible to do it. They might want some cash advances though.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
ACDC8
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:42 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):
With the crash in the oil patch, Im pretty sure Flair would jump at any business as soon as it is possible to do it. They might want some cash advances though.

I'm not doubting or disagreeing with the poster but he makes it sound like its the talk of the town.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
fly_yhm
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:51 am

I guess time will tell if Flair is still a partner as far as I can tell they are. I hope they still are as this makes thing challenging.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
robsaw
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:20 pm

Quoting Noise (Thread starter):
The Canadian Transport Agency has ruled that NewLeaf Travel can operate without an air licence, so long as it does not fly any air craft.

More accurately, the CTA has determined that as a reseller NewLeaf does not require a license. So long as they don't represent themselves as an "air carrier" in any way and make it clear that a licensed carrier (Flair) is the actual license holder.
 
jimbo737
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:33 am

assuming Flair is still in the deal, which they aren't.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:12 am

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 4):
Insider knowledge. Kelowna is a small town. [/quot

Sorry, but that's not enough.

[quote=jimbo737,reply=10]assuming Flair is still in the deal, which they aren't.

1. Posting in the Discussion Forums

h. When stating facts, statistics or newsworthy bulletins, please be sure to include an HTML link or reference to a publication. If you are merely providing an opinion, please MENTION THIS in your post. It is each member's responsibility to avoid arguments based on rumors or misinformation.

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/rules.main?confirm=no
 
jimbo737
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:22 pm

Let's call it an unreported fact from well placed sources who know all the key players, then.

Consider:

1. No mention of Flair Air's involvement on New Leaf's website.

2. No mention of Flair Air's involvement on Flair Air's website.

3. Flair Air never made a single comment to the media when New Leaf shut down. Nothing about their "being disappointed and looking forward to having the issue resolved". Nada. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

4. CTA gave New Leaf the green light 5 days ago. If all New Leaf were waiting for to relaunch was CTA approval, they'd have had all their ducks in a row, relaunch pres releases written, website tuned up, ready to go, news conference and boom, go! Summer is fast approaching and the longer the lead time available to generate advance bookings, the better. Yet nothing.

Put it another way. The day WS had approval to relaunch in 1996 after the Transport Canada nonsense, ( which, after a 17 day shut down, amounted to less than $2,500 in paper work fines, none more than $150 each), WS immediately relaunched. They were ready to go with no delay.

New Leaf claims they are ready to go. What are they waiting for?

Lift. They don't have any. Until they find it, from a source that meets CTA ownership rules, they are not in business.

It won't be easy to source a narrow body operator that meets CTA requirements in Canada.

New Leaf tried to short circuit the natural startup process by avoiding the work and expense of bringing in their own fleet, probably because their plan was so anemic, it would have been impossible to sell the concept to investors, and its biting them in the rear end now.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it t.
 
A346Dude
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:02 pm

I tend to believe the "rumour" that Flair has pulled out. The reason given for suspending sales, the CTA review, was ongoing before they launched and never made any sense. If they were concerned about the review two weeks after the launch, they should have been just as concerned on launch day because nothing changed in the interim.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
robsaw
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:17 am

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 12):
1. No mention of Flair Air's involvement on New Leaf's website.

Not quite:

From the full press release link on NewLeaf's website:

"This backing shows that Canadian travellers truly desire an ultra low-cost air service option which NewLeaf, in conjunction with Flair Airlines, will provide."

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 12):
3. Flair Air never made a single comment to the media when New Leaf shut down. Nothing about their "being disappointed and looking forward to having the issue resolved". Nada. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Incorrect. From the Capital News (Central Okanagan newspaper):

""We think this is a good decision at this point in time," said Chris Lapointe, Flair's vice president of commercial operations. "The barriers to entry in the commercial travel business are huge. I think it was pragmatic of them to say 'let's get this in order now.' It's not good news but it's by no means bad news. We would rather have them get their regulatory issues resolved and clean now rather than starting something and having to stop it partway down the road."

Both Lapointe and Ballingall expect the service to at some point receive proper licensing and the previously announced discount flights to be available to the flying public. It's just a matter of when and if the NewLeaf model will be one that emerges from a few different proposals that are currently out there."

However, GlobalBC news reports that Flair and NewLeaf still negotiating:

http://globalnews.ca/video/2609413/u...ir-still-negotiating-with-new-leaf

Put it another way. The day WS had approval to relaunch in 1996 after the Transport Canada nonsense, ( which, after a 17

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 12):
Put it another way. The day WS had approval to relaunch in 1996 after the Transport Canada nonsense, ( which, after a 17 day shut down, amounted to less than $2,500 in paper work fines, none more than $150 each), WS immediately relaunched. They were ready to go with no delay.

Not really the same, Westjet was an Air Carrier with aircraft and was already flying prior.

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 13):
I tend to believe the "rumour" that Flair has pulled out. The reason given for suspending sales, the CTA review, was ongoing before they launched and never made any sense. If they were concerned about the review two weeks after the launch, they should have been just as concerned on launch day because nothing changed in the interim.

Perhaps, but the review after they announced their initial agreement with Flair and I assume they anticipated the review would be complete by their launch date.
 
mpsrent
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:43 pm

There is a report (without a source) indicating that Flair will be providing aircraft to Air Transat for the summer of 2016.

http://airlineroute.net/2016/04/05/ts-734-s16/
 
jimbo737
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:26 pm

Still waiting for the big relaunch announcement......

The largest source of cash for an underfunded startup, which is precisely what New Leaf is, is unearned revenue, namely, advance bookings.

If they had their ducks in a row, which, according to their story, was simply CTA approval, which they have now had for over a week, why the hold up? Why not launch now with a solid 45 days of advance bookings prior to the Canadian May long weekend, the kick off to the summer travel season?

Consider also the guy who makes all the decisions for this new "airline" has been in Hawaii for 3 months.

I'm pretty sure no one involved in WS's launch spent the three months prior to launch on a beach in Hawaii.....

Flair have committed to operate the following this Spring.


airtransat Adds Flair Airlines 737-400 Service in S16
Posted: 04 Apr 2016 08:30 PM PDT
Posted at 0330GMT 05APR16

Canadian carrier airtransat in summer 2016 season is leasing Flair Airlines’ Boeing 737-400 aircraft for its operation in Western Canada, which sees the 737-400 operating on following routes. These routes will be operating under flight number range TS5200 – 5699, operating on Saturdays (Sundays for Cancun).

eff 06MAY16 Calgary – Vancouver Fridays from Calgary, Saturdays from Vancouver
eff 07MAY16 Edmonton – Calgary – Puerto Vallarta
eff 07MAY16 Vancouver – Puerto Vallarta
eff 07MAY16 Calgary – Vancouver – San Jose/Los Cabos until 14MAY16
eff 22MAY16 Edmonton – Cancun until 05JUN16
eff 22MAY16 Calgary – Cancun until 05JUN16
eff 12JUN16 Edmonton – Calgary – Cancun

When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and and poops like a duck, it's probably a duck.

[Edited 2016-04-05 08:29:17]
 
ACDC8
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:06 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 16):
Consider also the guy who makes all the decisions for this new "airline" has been in Hawaii for 3 months.

I'm pretty sure no one involved in WS's launch spent the three months prior to launch on a beach in Hawaii.....

Telephone and video conferencing has come a long way since 1996  

2 of Flair's B734s were being worked on Sunday afternoon - one in the hanger and the other just in front.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
fly_yhm
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:17 pm

This is a short twitter conversation regards Newleaf and flair


Ray love ‏@ray_love · Apr 5

@newleaftravel I've read that Flair is no longer a partner which I feel has some weight as they will be flying 4
Air Trasat can you clarify?


NewLeaf Travel
‏@newleaftravel
@ray_love our apologies for the delay. That is not the case - Flair still remains one of our partners.
Hope that helps clarify your question
7:51 AM - 11 Apr 2016
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
Whiteguy
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:30 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 16):
Consider also the guy who makes all the decisions for this new "airline" has been in Hawaii for 3 months.

I'm pretty sure no one involved in WS's launch spent the three months prior to launch on a beach in Hawaii.....

Telephone and video conferencing has come a long way since 1996  

2 of Flair's B734s were being worked on Sunday afternoon - one in the hanger and the other just in front.

They've been there almost a week, saw them parked there when I was in and out of YLW a few times over the weekend before....
 
diverted
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RE: NewLeaf Allowed To Operate Without Air Licence

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 19):
They've been there almost a week, saw them parked there when I was in and out of YLW a few times over the weekend before....

I know GoSarvaq stated they were launching May 20 using a Flair 734, that could explain one of them. Between operating for them, and TS this summer, I can't imagine they'll have slack in the fleet to operate the planned Newleaf services, though admittedly the Sarvaq flying appears to only be Monday's and Fridays.

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