Nordic Aviation Part 3

qf789 · Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:55 am

Continue discussion here

Nordic Aviation Part 2 (by KarelXWB Jan 6 2016 in Civil Aviation)

ilari · Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:51 am

As I mentioned in the previous discussion, FR is back at TMP, BUD and BRE both 2x weekly during summer season. Knowing how quick they are on decicions, we can only hope they will have at least something from TMP in the winter.

ceo@afg · Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:55 pm

DY inagural flight OSL-BOS is enroute. Currently over western Greenland for an ontime arrival in BOS.

http://www.flightradar24.com/NAX7141/9498f3f

florens · Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:59 pm

Avies has been grounded

http://ch-aviation.com/portal/news/4...grounds-avies-over-safety-concerns

I flew them back in 2011 from TLL to KDL and back.

[Edited 2016-04-02 13:02:09]

http://s19.postimg.org/66qc8d9pf/193359_10150143804443257_2204386_o.jpg

[Edited 2016-04-02 13:02:44]

Thunderboltdrgn · Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:24 am

The Danish supreme court, Højesteret, today ruled that Primera Air are to compensate 11 passengers
who were delayed due to a "technical error" on one of Primera's aircraft.
The compensation was set to €400 per passenger which is about 3000 Danish Kroner.

There are also another 1300 passengers who have filed similar claims,as these 11 passengers,
passengers who now also might be entitled to a compensation of the same size.

http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/hoe...betale-kompensation-flyforsinkelse

[Edited 2016-04-04 03:28:16]

TUGMASTER · Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:52 pm

The DAT Mad Dog is flying BLL-ARN for SK until 15th Apr.
Also a ARN-SVG rotation on Sunday 10th.

SAS A340 · Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:13 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 4):
Primera Air are to compensate 11 passengers
who were delayed due to a "technical error" on one of Primera's aircraft.

Seems like 80 swedes are stuck in Dubai since sunday with Norwegian due to technical problems. They are to be compensated according to Norwegian.

Swedish only:
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/80-svenskar...dade-pa-flygplats-sedan-i-sondags/

Thunderboltdrgn · Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:42 am

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 6):
Seems like 80 swedes are stuck in Dubai since sunday
with Norwegian due to technical problems

Doesn't Norwegian have any spare aircraft?

kelvin933 · Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:38 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 7):
Doesn't Norwegian have any spare aircraft?

They probably do have spare aircraft, but not sitting on the ramp in DXB.

SAS A340 · Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:27 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 7):
Doesn't Norwegian have any spare aircraft?

It´s not there way to solve these type of problems

According to Norwegian hopefully they can fly home passengers at 7 pm tonight .... some passengers complain that they cannot access their baggage with Medecine that some apparently need...

[Edited 2016-04-05 08:48:32]

Mortyman · Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:52 pm

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 9):
they cannot access their baggage with Medecine that some apparently need...

They are fairly stupid if they have packed their medicine in checked in luggage. Medicines for the journey and for your stay should be in handluggage, with extra in checked in luggage.

SAS A340 · Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:25 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 10):
They are fairly stupid

I agree,i would say that ALL of them are stupd in some degree,but hopefully they learned a thing or two by the nxt time they book a flight.

HELyes · Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:31 pm

Finnair opened 1x daily (E170/190) Billund service, the route has been operated by BA Sun-Air before. Finns to Legoland, Danes to Asia...

http://twitter.com/FinAmbKob/status/717673511142162432

In Danish:
http://www.bll.dk/om-lufthavnen/nyhe...r-ny-rute-fra-billund-til-helsinki

B747forever · Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
I agree,i would say that ALL of them are stupd in some degree,but hopefully they learned a thing or two by the nxt time they book a flight.

You mean stupid like those 2,2 millions that choose to fly with DY during March?

http://media.norwegian.com/se/#/pres...passagerartillvaext-i-mars-1363425

You might not like DY, but there is no doubt that DY is gaining more traction in Scandinavia and rest of Europe. Even the best of carriers have snafus.

prebennorholm · Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:31 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
Even the best of carriers have snafus.

Correct. But that's not the main issue here.

What separates good and bad carriers is the way they handle problems, especially:
- correct and timely information to affected passengers.
- the way problems are solved and how long time it lasts.

SAS A340 · Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
You might not like DY,

I have nothing against DY, i just don´t like DY,s trackrecord regarding how to handle there customers when things get wrong!

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 14):
- the way problems are solved and how long time it lasts

Spot on,thank you

[Edited 2016-04-06 18:32:37]

Thunderboltdrgn · Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:09 am

Luftfartsverket and Swedavia have signed a letter of intent to launch a study of the possibilities to install
remote tower services (rts) on another five Swedish airports. The five airports that will be included in
the study are Malmö (MMX), Visby (VBY), Östersund (OSD), Umeå (UME) and Kiruna (KRN).

If rts are installed on these airports, they would be controlled from a new rts control center located
at LFV's current control center at ARN.

http://news.cision.com/se/lfv/r/lfv-...g---remote-tower-services,c9951778

Thunderboltdrgn · Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:26 am

Several aircraft have picked up an emergency beacon signal somewhere in Sweden. The emergency signal
is of the type that is used by aviation emergency beacons. Tthe Police and the Swedish Post
and Telecom Authority (PTS) are attempting to trace the signal.

http://www.sjofartsverket.se/sv/Sjof...ine/Oklara-nodsignaler-uppfattade/

[Edited 2016-04-08 02:28:01]

[Edited 2016-04-08 02:28:37]

Someone83 · Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:25 pm

EI-FPD, the 4th CRJ-900 for Cityjet/SAS is being delivered today. AFAIK it will go directly to ARN, where it will start flying out from in some days

Someone83 · Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:54 pm

Seems like Adria has closed down their LJU-ARN flight

okobjorn · Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:54 pm

SK had their fourth A333E (LN-RKU Helge Viking) delivered yesterday. See pictures on SAS' Facebook page.

Thunderboltdrgn · Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:23 pm

Does anyone know anything about the runway overrun at Gällivare (GEV) three days ago (April 6th)?
According to HavKom, a Fokker 100 with the registration YR-FZA had a runway overrun
after landing on Rwy 30.

http://www.havkom.se/utredningar/civ...gplanet-yr-fza-av-typen-fokker-100

*edit found article at Avherald:

Quoting Avherald:

On Apr 8th 2016 Sweden's Statens Haverikommission (SHK) reported the aircraft made an
instrument approach to runway 30 but went off the runway coming to a stop with both nose and
main gear off the runway. The occupants disembarked via stairs. The occurrence is being
investigated by the SHK.

Gallivare features a runway 12/30 of 1714 meters/5622 feet length, no approach lights and no
instrument procedures exist for runway 12, runway 30 features an ILS approach and approach lights

[Edited 2016-04-09 12:29:35]

prebennorholm · Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:43 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 21):
Gallivare features a runway 12/30 of 1714 meters/5622 feet length, no approach lights and no
instrument procedures exist for runway 12, runway 30 features an ILS approach and approach lights

ESNG 061950Z 05007KT 1100 R30/P1500N -SN VV007 00/M00 Q0993
ESNG 061920Z 05008KT 1300 R30/P1500N SNRA VV008 00/M00 Q0994

So they made a tailwind landing with a Fokker 100 on 5622 ft runway in snowy weather in the dark.

Emerging from the bankruptsy two years ago Carpatair left their turboprop ATRs and Saabs with the lessors and only has three F100 left. They need a better plane for this type of ops.

Good thing that nothing happened.

And good thing that I am not the Carpatair manager to join the next meeting with their insurance company.

Thunderboltdrgn · Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:00 am

The Swedish government's study, made by Anders Sundström, about the future of air traffic and
residential construction in the Stockholm region was presented today. The conclusion is that ARN
capacity need to be expanded and that BMA does not have a future beyond 2038 when the current
deal with Stockholm city expires, since he does not expect that deal to be renewed.

Before that, Sundström says that ARN needs a 4th runway (3rd parallel rwy) and that planning for
that needs to start right away. The study was originally intended as a study about the closing of BMA
but a the conservative opposition in the parliament + the Sweden Democrats stopped that which meant
that the government had to re-phrase the purpose of the study.

The The key points if the study:

*30'000 new residences (apartments small houses) are more important for the
Stockholm growth then keeping BMA as an operational airport.
*ARN capacity need to be expanded.
*BMA have no future past 2038
*Extensive expansions of ARN and connections to ARN is required.
*The government needs to take on a "collective responsibility" .

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/uppsala/bromma-bort-och-arlanda-till
http://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddel...och-bostader-i-stockholmsregionen/
http://www.regeringen.se/rapporter/2016/04/mer-flyg-och-bostader/
http://www.regeringen.se/contentasse...27b560ab/mer-flyg-och-bostader.pdf (4MB size).

JetBuddy · Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:33 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 23):
Before that, Sundström says that ARN needs a 4th runway (3rd parallel rwy) and that planning for
that needs to start right away.

Why is it ARN needs a 4th runway? Is the current 3rd diagonal runway not that useful?

SKAirbus · Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:00 pm

I think closing BMA is sensible. It is much closer to the city but with the Arlanda Express, ARN isn't much further away time-wise.

Thunderboltdrgn · Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:26 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 24):
Why is it ARN needs a 4th runway? Is the current 3rd diagonal runway not that useful?

No it is not. I am no expert but from what I understand there are only a few runway combination scenarios
that allows all three runways to be operated simultaneously. According to available information (7.1.1) it seems
that a take off/landing runway combination that includes rwy 08/26 is only used during off peak hours.

So I assume that a 3rd parallel runway would means allot more flexibility then trying to squeeze
from more traffic from the 08/26. Rwy 08 is also not allowed to be used during darkness.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 25):
I think closing BMA is sensible. It is much closer to the city but
with the Arlanda Express, ARN isn't much further away time-wise.

Agree. ARN also have commuter trains and regular trains that stops there. BMA was initially
kept open to function as a combined general aviation / scheduled passenger traffic airport but
now when Swedavia have banned ga traffic at BMA there is no longer any need to keep it open.

kruiseri · Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:29 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 24):
Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 23):
Before that, Sundström says that ARN needs a 4th runway (3rd parallel rwy) and that planning for
that needs to start right away.

Why is it ARN needs a 4th runway? Is the current 3rd diagonal runway not that useful?

I looked at the report,and pretty interesting locations for the new runway.

The reports says, that options 2 and 3 are to be studied further. However isn't it quite obvious, that option 3 is the only one that makes sense as only then can all three runways be operated simultaneusly.

JetBuddy · Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:49 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 26):
So I assume that a 3rd parallel runway would means allot more flexibility then trying to squeeze
from more traffic from the 08/26. Rwy 08 is also not allowed to be used during darkness.

Quoting kruiseri (Reply 27):
The reports says, that options 2 and 3 are to be studied further. However isn't it quite obvious, that option 3 is the only one that makes sense as only then can all three runways be operated simultaneusly.

Okay that's what I thought. It's the same thing at OSL, the 3rd runway is in planning stages and will most likely be east of 01R and running parallel with it.

Tristarsteve · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:26 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 26):
Rwy 08 is also not allowed to be used during darkness.

Runway 08 has no approach aids so is not used for landing at night. In fact British Airways will not use it in daylight either.
But 08 is used for departures all the time. Likewise 26 is used for arrivals but very rarely used for departures. ( Because it is so far from the terminal).
I have travelled out of ARN for 45 years and only taken off from 26 once.

Edit I remember that departure well. It was in 1998 and the other runway was closed for maintenance, (before the third runway opened)and the winds were very strong so we had to taxy down to 26. It was a Nordic East Tristar, and the wind was blowing the engine exhaust forward and it was being ingested by the engines again. The aircraft reeked of exhaust fumes in the cabin.

[Edited 2016-04-11 11:29:40]

okay · Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:15 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 29):

Maybe a stupid question, but why not just install equipment needed for approaches to runway 08?

JetBuddy · Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:28 pm

Do you remember the incident back in November, when Swedish ATC supposidely was taken out by a strong solar storm? Well, it turns out it most likely wasn't. New information has surfaced that at the same time, Swedish intelligence sent an urgent message to NATO in Norway and Denmark that a large scale hacker attack from Russia was targeting Vattenfall, one of Europe's largest energy producers.

"Men samtidig gikk det hastemelding fra svenske myndigheter til NATO med følgende beskjed: Sverige er rammet av et alvorlig cyberangrep. Varslingen skal ha skjedd i to omganger, og ble videreformidlet til flere av NATOs medlemsland, herunder både Norge og Danmark. I informasjonen fra Sverige fremgikk det at svenske myndigheter mente det var en hackergruppe – en såkalt APT-gruppe (advanced persistant threat, red. anm) som vanligvis er knyttet til den russiske, militære etterretningstjenesten GRU som stod bak.

– Meldingen ble formidlet til NATO fra enten Försvarets Radio Anstalt (FRA) eller den svenske Militära Underättelses- och Säkerhetstjänsten (MUST), sier en høytstående NATO-kilde til aldrimer.no.

Konsekvensen av dataproblemene i det svenske Luftfartsverket onsdag 4. november 2015 var at flygeledere ikke lenger kunne se flyene på sine dataskjermer. Flytrafikk til og fra de svenske flyplassene Arlanda, Landvetter og Bromma ble alle rammet, og mange flyvninger måtte innstilles, både innenriks- og utenriksflyvninger."

http://www.aldrimer.no/varslet-om-cy...erangrep-da-flytrafikk-ble-lammet/

aldrimer.no is an organization lobbying for more defense funding and more focus on armed forces. It's run by a renowned journalist Kjetil Stormark. I suggest you guys read the article and make up your own opinion. This might deserve it's own thread.

Tristarsteve · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:57 pm

Quoting okay (Reply 30):
Maybe a stupid question, but why not just install equipment needed for approaches to runway 08?

I believe the reason is it encroaches on runway 19R. the threshold for 08 is very close to the taxyway to 19R and you could only put limited lighting in there.

Thunderboltdrgn · Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 31):
Do you remember the incident back in November, when Swedish ATC
supposidely was taken out by a strong solar storm? Well, it turns out it most likely wasn't.

Well that is hardly surprising since most experts said the same thing back then that a solar storm
would have affected all countries in the region and not just Sweden.

flyingbird · Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting okay (Reply 30):
Maybe a stupid question, but why not just install equipment needed for approaches to runway 08?

Probably because runway 08 is used about 1-3 hours per year. Approach is low over the town of Märsta so it's more or less forbidden to use it as landing runway (and 26 for take offs).

okobjorn · Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:15 pm

According to Reuters (http://www.business.dk/transport/medie-lufthansa-kan-koebe-del-af-sas - in Danish only), Lufthansa and SAS are in talks about Lufthansa buying a stake in SAS.
SAS and Brussels Airlines could be part of Eurowings going forward.

I know they have been there before, and SAS is in much better shape than last time, but will this ever fly?

The SAS share increases by 6.4%...

fessor · Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:35 pm

hope SAS not join up with LH, i see TK as a much better partner

okobjorn · Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting fessor (Reply 36):
hope SAS not join up with LH, i see TK as a much better partner

It's either LH or BA, where SAS can supplement their market position. TK is too far away - I believe.

Basefly · Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting fessor (Reply 36):
hope SAS not join up with LH, i see TK as a much better partner

It's always been LH who would shore up their northern flank, I for one hope that BA swoops in and makes the LH alliance game more interesting

seansasLCY · Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting Basefly (Reply 38):
t's always been LH who would shore up their northern flank, I for one hope that BA swoops in and makes the LH alliance game more interesting

I don't see BA going for SAS. If anything IAG will go after Finnair.

Thunderboltdrgn · Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting okobjorn (Reply 35):
I know they have been there before, and SAS is in much
better shape than last time, but will this ever fly?

I think it will happen at some point too some extent.

English article: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bru...-m-a-lufthansa-eurow-idUKKCN0XA1I7

The issue might be that LH wants to make SK more like Eurowings but I don't think that would be popular
among SAS pilots and cabin crew, especially not if that means LCC style employment conditions
similar to what DY uses.

[Edited 2016-04-13 11:56:58]

okay · Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:59 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 39):

They already are and AY is not opposing. They have a lot of cooperation going on at the moment through joint ventures and cargo ops. As soon as the Finnish government is ready to sell, I'm pretty sure IAG will make its move.

[Edited 2016-04-13 12:01:03]

okay · Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:36 pm

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 34):

Why was this runway built in the first place if it can be used so rarely?

Ideekay · Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:40 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 39):
I don't see BA going for SAS. If anything IAG will go after Finnair.

Well its actually the other way around, Finnair is really wanting to go into IAG

B747forever · Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:41 pm

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 34):
Probably because runway 08 is used about 1-3 hours per year. Approach is low over the town of Märsta so it's more or less forbidden to use it as landing runway (and 26 for take offs).

Quoting okay (Reply 42):
Why was this runway built in the first place if it can be used so rarely?

To clarify, 08 is rarely used for landings and 26 for takeoffs. However they are an integral part of daily operations with 08 used for takeoffs and 26 for landings.

Thunderboltdrgn · Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting okay (Reply 42):
Why was this runway built in the first place if it can be used so rarely?

When ARN was built, 01R/19L didn't exist, so I would guess that 08/26 was originally planned to be
used as a crosswind alternative to 01L/19R. The third runway (01R/19L) was opened in 2003 so
it is a pretty new runway.

Someone83 · Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:48 pm

One more SAS 737-600 sent to the scrapper

Quote:
Boeing 737 -683 28291 112 LN-RPX SAS ferried 14apr16 ARN-DGX for part-out & scrap ex SE-DNN

lesfalls · Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:17 am

Norwegian Air: Summer 2016 Longhaul Schedule (by lesfalls Apr 14 2016 in Civil Aviation)

Thunderboltdrgn · Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:51 pm

SAS have introduced "SAS is youth" which is cheap 1-way tickets to USA for people under 26.
Although there were a comment from another person about needing a return ticket booked due to visa rules.

http://twitter.com/SAS/status/720914972692320257

[Edited 2016-04-15 05:54:04]

Mortyman · Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:30 pm

Norwegian's receaved it's second Boeing 787-9 today:

Ole Bull on the tail

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