DETA737
Topic Author
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2000 3:47 am

TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:10 pm

Does anyone have better footage or photos of the TWA Concorde mock up below?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7X54OjAxK8
 
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mbmbos
Posts: 2843
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:23 pm

Wowl! So cool to see the Concorde in TWA markings. Thanks for sharing.

And no, I don't know of any other footage. This is the first I've seen of it.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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TWA772LR
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RE: TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:52 pm

Cool!

I believe this may be the first thread on a.net to get moved from non-av to civil av.
When wasn't America great?


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SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6361
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:11 pm

Quoting DETA737 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have better footage or photos of the TWA Concorde mock up below?
http://www.airobilia.com/products/tw...-x-4-print-tw004?variant=508092749
 
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anfromme
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:40 pm

First I've seen of this, too.
Thanks for sharing!
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barney captain
Posts: 2203
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:43 pm

Remove the "S" after http for a clickable link -



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7X54OjAxK8
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

RE: TWA Concorde

Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:09 pm

I think this is the 1967 wooden mock up, there are some details here. Apparently it was set fire to by vandals.

http://www.concordesst.com/models.html
 
quickmover
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: TWA Concorde

Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:11 am

Did TWA ever place an order for one of these?
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1287
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: TWA Concorde

Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:24 am

TWA and Pan Am both ordered Concordes, among many others. (TWA was also the first airline to order the Boeing SST, which infuriated Pan Am.) However, everyone except BOAC and Air France let their orders expire by early 1973 - several months before the infamous OPEC embargo sent oil prices soaring.

Complete SST order list:

AIRLINEConcordeB2707
Aer Lingus-2
Air Canada46
Air France86
Air India22
Airlift Int.-1
Alitalia-6
American66
BOAC86
Braniff32
Canadian Pac.-3
Continental33
Delta-3
Eastern66
El Al-2
Iberia-3
JAL35
KLM-6
Lufthansa33
Middle East2-
Northwest-6
Pakistan Int.-2
Pan American815
Qantas46
Sabena2-
Trans-Am.-1
TWA612
United66
World-3
TOTALS74122
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GDB
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RE: TWA Concorde

Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:46 am

Quoting Ryanair01 (Reply 6):
I think this is the 1967 wooden mock up, there are some details here. Apparently it was set fire to by vandals.

Speaking of heat, had the TWA order gone ahead the livery would have been white all over.
To apparently misquote Henry Ford, 'you could have any colour, so long as it's white'.
(Unless you wanted to limit your mach number).
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: TWA Concorde

Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:16 pm

I can't help but think that if the U.S. SST program had been handled
differently, i.e. a public/private partnership with all 4 of the major U.S.
manufacturers partnered (Boeing/Douglas/Lockheed/Convair) with just
seed-money by the Govt., things might have turned out differently and
the plane might actually have come to fruition. But being a Govt-funded
program, it was doomed.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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anfromme
Posts: 883
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RE: TWA Concorde

Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
Speaking of heat, had the TWA order gone ahead the livery would have been white all over.

Well, it wouldn't have had the silver (unpainted) lower fuselage that was still visible on that 1973 mockup, but had vanished by the time the first prototype was rolled out.
Cheatlines weren't an unusual feature on Concorde, though. The prototypes feature a red cheatline not dissimilar to TWA's at the time. The original livery BA's were delivered in had a blue cheatline - SQ's cheatline was applied on the other side on one of them. A few of them also wore AF's original livery (cheatline included) - including the ill-fated F-BTSC, which originally entered service in these colours.a

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jean-François Denis


But you're of course right when it comes to the fuselage - the promotional Pepsi Concorde was all-blue, but consequently limited to subsonic speeds.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 8):
However, everyone except BOAC and Air France let their orders expire by early 1973 - several months before the infamous OPEC embargo sent oil prices soaring.

It should be pointed out that the term "orders" at the time was generally used a bit more liberally - according to most accounts, the SST orders were more akin to semi-binding options. Airlines could cancel them or simply let them lapse without much/any penalty.
As a background to this, the B2707 project had been cancelled two years prior to most of those Concorde options/orders expiring, with 115 orders still on the 2707's books.
Before the OPEC embargo, environmental and higher-than-anticipated development/purchase costs were a bigger detrimental factor for SSTs than fuel costs. For Concorde, there was also the matter of increased FUD and some non-favourable legislation passed before and after the 2707 had been canned. The oil crisis then simply dealt the final blow, if that was still needed (curiously, IR showed interest in the late 70s, but if not off the table at that point already, it was definitely dead after the Iranian revolution).
Having said that - even before the OPEC embargo, it was evident that Concorde's seat miles per gallon were about half that of a 707's and little more than quarter that of DC-10. No matter the cost of oil, that's a significant difference and any bean counter could easily see that the only way to make money with that kind of plane was by charging 1st class and then some. That went quite contrary to the spirit of the times, which turned out to be the dawn of mass transportation by plane, thanks to the 747 and DC-10/L.1011, and later the A300 and 767.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 8):
Complete SST order list:

Don't think this is actually complete - Concorde also had orders from the likes of Panair (Brasil), Olympic Airways, Singapore Airlines, and others. As per Wikipedia (quoting various sources), the number of 74 orders with the names given was correct as of Concorde's first flight, though, with some customers already having dropped out before then.

Not sure about the B2707's order book but I think that also had a few more entries at its peak.
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