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Boeing778X
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Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:28 am

Wow! April already? Time flies, doesn't it?

Anyways, another topic of discussion. AC has 23 777s, 6 77Ls and 17 77Ws, all not that old, but I was wondering what could be added to the fleet eventually.

Along with AA, AC is the only North American carrier that I could see possibly using the 777X well, and could maybe even be one of the few that utilize both models. Having said that, AC could also just as well turn to Airbus for the A350-900(ULH?) and -1000, but I suppose that also depends on their needs.

Going over seating info, they do seem to use a higher density 10Y cabin in some of their 777s, which would be the default of the 777X.

Thoughts?
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chrisp390
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:31 am

I do not know the reasoning but AC seems to have turned heavily to Boeing in recent years. The relationship must be very good as they were willing to ditch the A320's and commonality that comes with them for the 737MAX. Due to this I would imagine they will go with the 777X. They have a lot of high density routes, and I think the 777X would fit these better than the A350.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:38 am

Why does it have to be "or".....?

Like the A330+777 combo, I dare say that many airlines will go for some combination of both.
Who knows, AC could someday be one of them.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
briguychau
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:00 am

Given that AC is expecting 2 more 77Ws this year, I'd imagine that AC is in no rush to get rid of their current-gen 777s. And since the A350 fits in between (and overlaps) the 777 and 787, I see virtually 0 chance of AC getting the A350. If anything, they'd replace the A330s with more 787-9s (or maybe 787-10s) as they still have a bunch of options for the 787, either 13 or 23 (don't remember).

Regardless of whether AC gets the 777X, I can see Boeing offering AC more 77Ws at fire-sale rates to fill in the production gap between the current-gen 777s and the 777X.
 
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:11 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Thread starter):
Anyways, another topic of discussion. AC has 23 777s, 6 77Ls and 17 77Ws, all not that old, but I was wondering what could be added to the fleet eventually.

We'll what happen with the A333s when it happens. Will they be replaced or will they simply be dropped? Since AC has ordered many 777s, 787s & 737MAX (to replace the A320s), why would they have a small sub-fleet of Airbus operating in the same market as the Boeing's?
 
jfk777
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:39 am

Does AC even need 777X or A350's ? Many 787-9 are still coming into the fleet. They are handling the ultra long range flights to Dubai and Delhi. The current 77W fleet is good until 2025 -2030 maybe 2035, its going to be a long time before they are replaced.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:42 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 4):
why would they have a small sub-fleet of Airbus operating in the same market as the Boeing's?

According to Longhauler these are based in YUL, their crew base is here and they have the ( limited) range to serve TATL from YUL. And there are enough of them to be a significant fleet.
 
threepoint
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 6):
And there are enough of them to be a significant fleet.

Eight airframes in a mainline fleet of over 200 aircraft is hardly significant.
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whywhyzee
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:19 pm

Quoting briguychau (Reply 3):
Regardless of whether AC gets the 777X, I can see Boeing offering AC more 77Ws at fire-sale rates to fill in the production gap between the current-gen 777s and the 777X.


I agree, and I think it would be a great move for AC, with 400 seats in their normal configuration, CASM must be incredible.

They also have 23 787 options, I think an order for 787-10's would make sense, especially for TATL from Eastern Canada, and TPAC from YVR.

To add fuel to the fire, I have info from an AC employee that their new Hangar complex at YYZ which is currently in the works is being built specifically to fit the 777-9.
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:33 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
To add fuel to the fire, I have info from an AC employee that their new Hangar complex at YYZ which is currently in the works is being built specifically to fit the 777-9.

I guess you could argue it would be foolish not to plan for an aircraft as likely to be ordered, at some point, as the 777-9. But nevertheless intriguing info..
 
transaeroyyz
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:44 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
new Hangar complex at YYZ which is currently in the works is being built specifically to fit the 777-9.

Cool, was wondering what was happening there, btw love your username!.
 
jfk777
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
To add fuel to the fire, I have info from an AC employee that their new Hangar complex at YYZ which is currently in the works is being built specifically to fit the 777-9.

IF you were building such a building you would plan for the widest future version of the 777 not only the current version, the 77W. What can the marginal cost be to building a hangar 40 feet wider ? Probably not much in the whole scheme of what it costs. I would not read into it as AC will "have 777-9".
 
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rotating14
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:45 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
IF you were building such a building you would plan for the widest future version of the 777 not only the current version, the 77W. What can the marginal cost be to building a hangar 40 feet wider ? Probably not much in the whole scheme of what it costs. I would not read into it as AC will "have 777-9".

I too thought of the same thing but it's not just the wingspan that is the same when the wingtips are folded in the upward position, the length is 2.5 meters more than the 77W.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:38 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
They also have 23 787 options, I think an order for 787-10's would make sense, especially for TATL from Eastern Canada, and TPAC from YVR.

I could see that happening.

I think it would also depend on what AC wants to do with their A333s. A 787-10 order could comfortably replace the 8 units they have.

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
To add fuel to the fire, I have info from an AC employee that their new Hangar complex at YYZ which is currently in the works is being built specifically to fit the 777-9.

An interesting bit of info! I don't think it immediately means an order, but I suppose AC thinks it's best to be prepared  
Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 1):
They have a lot of high density routes, and I think the 777X would fit these better than the A350.

How are their 777-200LR operations? Would they have a use for 5-7 777-8s?
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bmacleod
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Does AC even need 777X or A350's ? Many 787-9 are still coming into the fleet. They are handling the ultra long range flights to Dubai and Delhi. The current 77W fleet is good until 2025 -2030 maybe 2035, its going to be a long time before they are replaced.

Agreed. It will be at least 2020 to 2025 before AC looks at the 777X. The 77LR and 77W are still fairly new.

Also it doesn't look like AC will be looking at Airbus for quite a while at least....
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a380787
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 13):

The only super long route is YVR-SYD, which possibly can be handled by 787-9 or 77W depending on season. Their new routes to DXB and DEL are also by 787, further indicating the 787 is more than sufficient for their ULH needs. I don't see 778 as all that necessary.
 
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:10 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 13):
How are their 777-200LR operations? Would they have a use for 5-7 777-8s?
Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
The only super long route is YVR-SYD, which possibly can be handled by 787-9 or 77W depending on season. Their new routes to DXB and DEL are also by 787, further indicating the 787 is more than sufficient for their ULH needs. I don't see 778 as all that necessary.

They also operate the 77L on some routes where its range is not really required (e.g. YYZ-FRA, which I am booked on this summer).

Can anyone shed some light on why AC originally ordered these? Was it just for YVR-SYD really?
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:22 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Does AC even need 777X or A350's ? Many 787-9 are still coming into the fleet.

I'd say no, I don't see them needing to order more WB this decade.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:22 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 16):
Was it just for YVR-SYD really?

Also for YYZ-HKG.
 
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:33 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 8):
I agree, and I think it would be a great move for AC, with 400 seats in their normal configuration, CASM must be incredible.

I agree that AC is in no rush to think about a new generation of long-haul birds right now. Having said that, I also believe like whywhyzee that it is not out of the realm of possibilities that AC might acquire some new, last-of-the-line, 77Ws from Boeing or through leases.

I believe in the future AC could replace A333s and 77Es with 789s and 781s, and that 779s would replace the 77Ws.
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a380787
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 18):

That was the origin intent. CX, with their routes to ORD YYZ JFK EWR BOS, is proving everyday that the 77W is fully capable of those routes, thus rendering the original premise of the 77L mostly moot ... unless AC is very keen on cargo.
 
whywhyzee
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:38 pm

I think a lot of people have hit the nail on the head with the hangar sizing. It does not mean a definite order, but what we can draw form it is that they are definitely considering it rather seriously as a potential future order.

All that aside, logically, it makes sense for them to order the 777-9 one day. It is a natural upguage to the current 777's, and has a lot of commonality with their predominantly Boeing fleet. I personally feel they would be best served to continue to use the 77W's for as long as they can, maybe even get a few more if they can get a good deal from Boeing. The aircraft is tailor made to them, they carry a lot of cargo, and can fit a ton of pax, and go a long way, all really important for Canada. The 777-9, although it is an upgrade in every respect, isn't really needed right now. If fuel prices rise, maybe it would make a bit more sense, but in todays conditions, the 77W is perfect for them.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:15 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Does AC even need 777X or A350's ? Many 787-9 are still coming into the fleet. They are handling the ultra long range flights to Dubai and Delhi. The current 77W fleet is good until 2025 -2030 maybe 2035, its going to be a long time before they are replaced.

Given that the 777X will be in production for 10-20 years beginning in 2020, it's very reasonable that AC will strongly consider the 777X at some point in its construction cycle, for growth and/or replacement.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 6):
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 4):why would they have a small sub-fleet of Airbus operating in the same market as the Boeing's?

According to Longhauler these are based in YUL, their crew base is here and they have the ( limited) range to serve TATL from YUL.

The 333 fleet may be based primarily at YUL now, but they have used for TA services from YYC for years. They certainly have more range than just YUL TA services warrant.
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:36 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
Also it doesn't look like AC will be looking at Airbus for quite a while at least....

They have however, picked up some new build A321s for Rouge, so the relationship with Airbus isn't completely severed. The relationship with Airbus can't be that terrible as they've gotten some 26 years of service out of the A32X fleet. It would just appear that this time 'round Boeing had a better product for long haul and sharper pencils for the replacement of the narrowbody fleet.

If it fits the mission the price is right...

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threepoint
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:48 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
The only super long route is YVR-SYD,

YVR-BNE will not be much shorter (400mi).
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:01 pm

AC to send all their 777s to the desert and order 50 A350s! You heard it here first!  

To be honest, I don't see why they'd buy A350s when the 777X more closely matches their existing 777 fleet, and the 787 covers anything smaller.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting threepoint (Reply 7):
Eight airframes in a mainline fleet of over 200 aircraft is hardly significant.

I say it is significant in the context of the TATL service that it provides out of YUL with a YUL crew base.
 
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:26 pm

The A333 that AC has is a limited fleet that is particularly needed now until many more 789 come off the line. With Rouge taking up the 763's AC has needed those 8 in the fleet, They are a great niche plane. Fleet planning keeps extending keeping them because AC's international growth has been such they can't replace them fast enough with the 789's. AC has at one point and may still be looking for some good used 763's to keep the new destinations supported that don't need the much bigger lift of the 77W. The 77L were the first in the fleet and designed to open up the longest haul routes like YYZ to SYD and YYZ to Hong Kong. However with the excellent performance of the 77W that came in better than expected no further 77L were bought.

Going forward, with the commonality with the 77x I see AC sticking with that family. If anything they could add the 7810 because they have a clause in their contract that up to a certain lead time they can switch models. Many of the 788's have been switched to 789 under that stipulation.

The A333's will be returned to leasers when enough 789's catch up with the new destinations. If enough further destinations are started I could see the A333 keep getting extended. The 763's are almost a higher priority to replace as they begin to age and get to expensive checks. Really the 737Max don't have that much effect on the long range choices except for perhaps getting a better price. AC has shown historically they are willing to buy from a range of aircraft providers that best suit their routes beyond the swing to Airbus and then the current swing to Boeing.
 
GavinSharp
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:28 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):

I believe in the future AC could replace A333s and 77Es with 789s and 781s, and that 779s would replace the 77Ws.

It's a nit, but AC doesn't have any 77Es - only 77W and 77L.
 
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:39 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 27):
If enough further destinations are started I could see the A333 keep getting extended. The 763's are almost a higher priority to replace as they begin to age and get to expensive checks

Funnily enough, some of the 763's are younger than the 333's, they are hardly "young" either   The 333 must bring enough value to the table to stick around in such a small sub-fleet.

More interesting IMO is what will happen over at Rouge when it comes time for 767 replacement. To start it is clearly an experiment to see if it works and go from there. As it does seem to be working, then what in say 5 years from now? The 767's will indeed be old then and there doesn't seem to be any slack for mainline to hand down 787's by that time already. Do AC go the SQ / Scoot route and exercise 787 options and deliver directly to Rouge? The existing 333 fleet will not be going back to the lessor to find a new home when they are done with AC, they will be going to the part out man, but I could realistically see a home for newer 330's on lease as they become available which IMO would be a better fit for the Rouge operation than new 787's, and that may open the door later for 350's for Rouge in the future. But IMO they go full circle and get 10-15 year old 787's hand me downs from daddy.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 22):
but they have used for TA services from YYC for years

Also YVR-LHR and NRT. Not bad considering these are less capable 99-01 build frames. Newer 333's have no such issues, LH use them YVR-MUC and WK to ZRH. The perfect machine for Rouge IMO.
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:43 pm



Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 27):
The 77L were the first in the fleet

Not quite. AC's first 777 was a 77W. At the end of 2007, AC had 5 77W's and 3 77L's. More accurately, the 77L fleet was delivered in 2007/2008 trailing the initial 77W's.

Ben Smith was quoted recently as stating that AC is looking at converting some of the later 789 orders back to 788 as some routes are better suited to the 788. Other airlines have converted 789 orders to 788 including AA, BA
and Singapore/Scoot.

[Edited 2016-04-03 14:48:10]

[Edited 2016-04-03 14:49:55]
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VCEflyboy
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:23 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 1):

I do not know the reasoning but AC seems to have turned heavily to Boeing in recent years.

The reason being the white elephant project called Keystone Pipeline that Canada badly wants / wanted (assuming that it will never happen if oil prices remain this low).

Things can change quickly. It is no secret Bombardier has been lobbying Airbus for cooperation/support (read $$$). If that is the case, the A350 will have the upper hand, but again nothing is written in stone.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting GavinSharp (Reply 28):
It's a nit, but AC doesn't have any 77Es - only 77W and 77L.

You are right Gavin. Thanks a lot!
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 16):
Can anyone shed some light on why AC originally ordered these? Was it just for YVR-SYD really?

When AC ordered the B777s, both the 77L and the 77W were the same weight, giving the 77L the edge on range. This was required for YVR-SYD and YYZ-HKG. With the introduction of the HD B777s, the original weight of the 77Ws has increased to the new higher weight. While the range of the 77L is still greater than the now heavier 77W, the 77W can now fly (and does fly) YVR-SYD and YYZ-HKG.

The 77Ls now are flying routes with a high demand for cargo. And that is another point about AC's B777 order. The original order was for 4 77Ls and 2 77Fs, in addition to the 77Ws. When it was decided that the passenger version of the B777 has enough cargo capacity and lift to satisfy AC's requirements, the 77Fs ordered were converted to 77Ls. (Both share the -200 airframe).

So when you see a 77L flying a route that clearly does not require ULH capabilities, the reason why is under the cabin floor.
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ThReaTeN
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:08 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 33):
When AC ordered the B777s, both the 77L and the 77W were the same weight, giving the 77L the edge on range. This was required for YVR-SYD and YYZ-HKG. With the introduction of the HD B777s, the original weight of the 77Ws has increased to the new higher weight. While the range of the 77L is still greater than the now heavier 77W, the 77W can now fly (and does fly) YVR-SYD and YYZ-HKG.

What does HD stand for in this context?
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 34):
What does HD stand for in this context?

They are a small sub-fleet of High Density B77Ws. They have a smaller J cabin and hold 450 passengers vs. the other B77Ws that hold 400 passengers. They were ordered a few years after the original B777 order and came with a higher MTOW.
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ajhYXE
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:18 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 31):
The reason being the white elephant project called Keystone Pipeline that Canada badly wants / wanted (assuming that it will never happen if oil prices remain this low).

That has to be it! I'm sure it has nothing to do with Boeing's offerings being better suited for AC's needs.  

How exactly does AC benefit from Keystone?
GO RIDERS!
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:44 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 6):
and they have the ( limited) range to serve TATL from YUL

They've got more than that. AC has done YVR-Europe with them before.


Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 10):
btw love your username!

Me too.... though it's not very Canadian, with than "e" at the end instead of "d."  


Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
The only super long route is YVR-SYD

YYZ-HKG is actually longer. That, and YYZ-DEL make the three that it was originally bought for. Funnily, it's often not on any of the above anymore.


Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 34):
What does HD stand for in this context?

High Density.... the colloquial "Big Berthas"  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
threepoint
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:57 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 26):
I say it is significant in the context of the TATL service that it provides out of YUL with a YUL crew base.

Well sure, if you apply enough qualifiers, I suppose anything can be significant.
Panda bears are a significant portion of the North American ursine population. I mean, significant in the context of captive black & white, Chinese, bamboo-eating quadrapeds.
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whywhyzee
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:03 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 37):
Me too.... though it's not very Canadian, with than "e" at the end instead of "d."  

I have to say, I got a good chuckle out of that   I was going for a more phonetic sound, but having a "d" would have been PERFECT, wish I thought of that!

Just had this interesting thought - As some of you may know, AC was recently looking at taking on some more A330's for interim lift, and reportedly kicked the tires on the ex-Skymark birds, I believe it was mentioned in a thread or two on here. With the orders for new build A321's for Rouge, they are showing that they aren't going the exclusively Boeing route like we have thought. What if the A330's go to Rouge when it comes time to get rid of the 763's and possibly more could come on property either used or new late builds. It would keep commonality up, and most important for AC, a completely different pool for Rouge and Mainline which is what they always wanted (so they could pay the Rouge crews less).

Some if not all of the current A333's are leased from United, so I imagine the rates are slightly more favourable then the current arrangements one might expect to see for a lessor, so as long as they can maintain them and fill them, they can likely make good money from them. With Rouge, Stage lengths are predominantly shorter, so they might not really need much range, which the A333's lack.

Thoughts?
 
Beatyair
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:50 am

AC will not be look at new long haul aircraft for a long time. They have been going through a major fleet change for a bit now and I can't see anything until 2028. By that time there will be a new CEO that may like Airbus better. The current group really likes Boeing and is in the middle of a complete Boeing change over. The current family of 773-772 and 788-789 plus the A333 and the rouge 763's will hold the fort for a while.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:57 am

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 39):
Some if not all of the current A333's are leased from United

Pretty sure only three are.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:02 am

Quoting ajhYXE (Reply 36):
That has to be it! I'm sure it has nothing to do with Boeing's offerings being better suited for AC's needs.  

How exactly does AC benefit from Keystone?

You don't bite the hand that's feeding you!
Same reason why they re'buying the C-series despite having specifically admitted they still haven't figured out which place it might be in the airline's fleet.

Also it is no secret AC was inches away from inking a NEO deal for 60 aircraft, which magically turned to MAXs virtually overnight.

[Edited 2016-04-03 21:18:08]
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:58 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 40):
By that time there will be a new CEO that may like Airbus better.


For AC Lamar Durrett seemed to be the only strong supporter of Airbus. Robert Milton who was a VP under Durrett tried to order the 777 in 1997 but Durrett and his team wanted the A345/346.

The Canadian government may have some leverage with AC but not much now that it's a private corporation.

Back in 1978 when Justin Trudeau's dad Pierre was PM; AC was still a crown corporation. Then CEO Claude Taylor wanted an aircraft to replace its fuel-hungry DC-8-60s. PM Pierre Trudeau for some reason was leaning heavily toward Airbus (which at this time was a fairly very new consortium) and was impressed with the A310. However the AC Board was favoring the B767. Both aircaft were only blueprints then but the 767 was considered to be farther ahead in development.

Then in 1979 the Trudeau Liberals were defeated by Joe Clark's Conservatives, though a minority one, but his brief government was able to convince AC Board to pick the 767.

[Edited 2016-04-04 07:56:30]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 40):
By that time there will be a new CEO that may like Airbus better.

Out of curiosity, when were the A333s and A340-300s ordered? Was their orders related to the original A320s?
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:20 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 17):
I don't see them needing to order more WB this decade.

   And if they do order more, I think they will be 787s.

AC has a young and capable 77W fleet which will be sufficient to handle the airline's needs on the biggest trunk routes for some time. Their 787s are also new, so if they order more WB it will be for one of two purposes: either to replace the A330s or for network growth. A330 replacement looks unlikely in the current fuel price environment, and network growth is an objective that favors the 787 rather than the 777.

If the choices are still the same in 2025 when the 77W fleet starts to need replacing, then I think the 777-9 would have to have the edge based on superior payload-range. But the choices by then may be very different.
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:05 am

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 39):
Just had this interesting thought

See my post 29 - I think it highly likely, but used leased frames as EK and the like begin to retire them - not new. The Skymark ones are all allocated now I believe.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 42):
Also it is no secret AC was inches away from inking a NEO deal for 60 aircraft, which magically turned to MAXs virtually overnight.

Source? I still can hardly believe they went with the MAX though.

Quoting ajhYXE (Reply 36):
How exactly does AC benefit from Keystone?

Ssshhh, top secret direct sub pipeline into YYZ fuel farm  
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:16 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Thread starter):
Going over seating info, they do seem to use a higher density 10Y cabin in some of their 777s, which would be the default of the 777X.

All AC 777s will soon be 10-abreast in Y.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 37):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
The only super long route is YVR-SYD

YYZ-HKG is actually longer. That, and YYZ-DEL make the three that it was originally bought for. Funnily, it's often not on any of the above anymore.

YYZ-HKG 6,787 nm
YVR-SYD 6,741 nm
YYZ-DEL 6,297 nm
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:26 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 47):

Has 77L ever operated YYZ DEL ? Or was that just an intention ?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada: A350 Or 777X?

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:28 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 47):

Has 77L ever operated YYZ DEL ? Or was that just an intention ?

I doubt they've ever used any 777 on YYZ-DEL.

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