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N1120A
Posts: 26933
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:08 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 44):
Sure, and as it should be as Germany's capital and by far largest city

As a city, it is large, but the metropolitan area isn't as big.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 44):
And I agree it is the only true "global" city in Germany.

Not really. Frankfurt is moreso.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
Maybe this chart helps explain power of DUS.

It smack in the middle of the largest catchment area in Europe.
They did not even bother with Berlin as its a fringe traffic generating area.

Stretching DUS out to 90 minutes like that covers significant parts of Belgium and the Netherlands. The cachement is truly huge.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 5292
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:11 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Stretching DUS out to 90 minutes like that covers significant parts of Belgium and the Netherlands. The cachement is truly huge.

   Yes many people, many companies, and much money around DUS region.

Circle around Berlin not even close. Even the German regional government says "3.5 million people live in an area of 892 square kilometres."

The best thing Berlin has going for it, is that it has become a popular intra-European tourism spot. But many of these folks arrive onboard LCCs such as EasyJet, largely low spending traffic.
This however has no correlation with longhaul demand, or premium demand.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49):
the average TXL-JFK fare earned is almost 40% lower than a FRA-JFK ticket per IATA BSP data

Curious, average Y fare? or all classes divided by the number of seats sold?
 
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vfw614
Posts: 4068
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:30 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Stretching DUS out to 90 minutes like that covers significant parts of Belgium and the Netherlands. The cachement is truly huge.

Indeed, and further expansion is seriously hampered. Hence why every once in a while some stakeholders suggest that a new airport serving both DUS and CGN should be be built at Garzweiler where nowadays open-cast mining takes place. The area is so large that a CDG-sized airport could easily be accommodated once it becomes available for redevelopment.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:41 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 53):
airport serving both DUS and CGN should be be built at Garzweiler where nowadays open-cast mining takes place. The area is

that would Need balls since there will be nimby's even if they would put Airports Underground. But it is the only way to Keep Germany in pace with the developments in aviation. Since it would take at least 20 years now is the time to start.
But it is a separate thread.

Interesting interview with Niki Lauda, he said that after he left Niki and AB Managers came into the Company everything went more expensive. Employees, sale and lease back of aircraft etc. Lauda said that Niki / AB can only collect LCC fares but has legacy carrier costs.

Lauda mentioned that even he, with all his experience, would be unable to turn the Company around, and with 1 Billion € pumped into AB; EY has missed the Exit door. They'll never make Money on their investment
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54):
(EY) They'll never make Money on their investment

Do they have to?  

Germany is becoming the next European battle ground for LCCs and AB has highly desirable slots & facilities. Reportedly there's been talks with EasyJet. I'm sure there's been others. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to leapfrog the competition. I expect a bidding war and the price tag to be very high.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 53):
Garzweiler

Would be an astounding accomplishment, which most certainly will take a long time.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54):
AB can only collect LCC fares but has legacy carrier costs

Pichler is bluffing then. He's been saying AB cost is below EW. Think I'm with Niki on this one.

While Airberlin is getting the 'for sale' sign ready, focusing on where it has strength is its best move for now. American seems a great partner. I'm always surprised AB manages to fly ORD in the winter, even increasing it this year, making LAX year round is excellent news, so are the added MIA fights, where AA can't even manage a FRA.   
 
f4f3a
Posts: 642
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:58 pm

Have seen that German news sources are indicating that air Berlin may sell some assets to easyjet.
The sale of niki and belair could fit nicely into u2 network. Could be part of ab simplifying their network and return to profit
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 56):
niki and belair could fit nicely into u2

  
So would all of AB   

EasyJet is lagging Ryanair's growth rate by substantial margins. It'd be an amazing coup to acquire AB and over night become Germany's 2. largest airline with instant brand recognition and a long haul operation, O'Leary's wet dream. 
BREXIT is another consideration. As a UK carrier, ironically so is AB, an acquisition would diversify their operation substantially.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:01 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
That's somewhat surprising given that LH has by and large ignored the Caribbean. They have that one FRA-CUN by Jump but that hardly counts for anything.
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 16):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
That's somewhat surprising given that LH has by and large ignored the Caribbean. They have that one FRA-CUN by Jump but that hardly counts for anything.

LH yes, but not Condor which already serves some routes or will add others.

http://airlineroute.net/2016/02/18/d...ate1/

They have now increasing competition on these routes by Eurowings from CGN.

Jan
 
bennett123
Posts: 10886
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:29 pm

I am due to fly with Air Berlin next month.

Hopefully they will not get taken over by Easyjet just yet,
 
N1120A
Posts: 26933
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:50 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54):
Lauda mentioned that even he, with all his experience, would be unable to turn the Company around,

Lol. Experience as what? A race car driver who made a ton of money and did ok with a charter toy?

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 57):
As a UK carrier, ironically so is AB, an acquisition would diversify their operation substantially

They already have the Swiss carrier to handle some of that.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 60):

Lol. Experience as what? A race car driver who made a ton of money and did ok with a charter toy?

Lauda never lost a Cent with his Airlines, he made tons of Money instead by selling 3 carriers and he ran a tight sjip. What many don't know, he is a penny pincher and a brilliant businessman.
 
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cougar15
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:10 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:19 am

Quoting steman (Reply 18):
AB stopped flying to HKT etc once EY became part owner and kind of imposed no more AB east of AUH.
There are no more AB flights to South East Asia (or any other place east of AUH)

I flew FRA-HKT on EY in September last year, the AUH-HKT sector was operated by AB!
 
steman
Posts: 1677
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:52 am

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 62):
I flew FRA-HKT on EY in September last year, the AUH-HKT sector was operated by AB!

Yet I can´t find anything on airberlin website that shows they use their own metal from AUH to HKT. I tried running a few searches from DUS and TXL and it always comes out with the last leg operated by EY.
So maybe it was a one off or a limited time service because of lack of equipment for EY?
In any case there are no direct flights from Germany to Asia (with the obvious exclusion of AUH) for AirBerlin. Understandable: EY will want AB to feed its AUH hub as much as possible rather than compete for German tourists.
The bottom line is, AB never really had a huge presence in Asia or Indian Ocean but they had a few destinations there, as well as in North America. Since EY got into AB´s Capital, all long haul operations have been (allegedly almost) entirely concentrated on few North American (US - Caribbean) destinations.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3898
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:21 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 61):
Lauda never lost a Cent with his Airlines, he made tons of Money instead by selling 3 carriers and he ran a tight sjip. What many don't know, he is a penny pincher and a brilliant businessman.

And his dealing with the Lauda 767 reverser crash in 1991 won my deep respect. He didn't hide and deny what other airline CEO's often do, but worked intensively with Boeing to find out the cause and he was approachable to talk about it with the press and the families of the victims.

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