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LAXintl
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Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:46 pm

Announced today that Air Berlin will restructure longhaul ops to refocus back on the US and Caribbean markets from DUS and TXL bases.

With effect of Winter 2016 following changes planned.

DUS
LAX becomes year round. 5x weekly in winter
CUN increase from 2x weekly to 3x weekly
Varadero increase from 2x weekly to 3x weekly

TXL
Additional A332 aircraft based at TXL
MIA increase from 2 to 4x weekly
ORD increase from 4 to 5x weekly
JFK increase from 6 to 7x weekly
PUJ relaunch market - 3x weekly

For winter 2016 company will offer 38 weekly services on US markets, the highest ever by the airline.

=

http://www.airberlingroup.com/en/pre...service-massively-ahead-of-winter-


Anyone figure out yet what gets cut to free up the frames for this additional flying??
 
a380787
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Anyone figure out yet what gets cut to free up the frames for this additional flying??

Have they had any recent deliveries ? Or they have retimed their Caribbean services to squeeze more utilization out of the existing pot ?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:10 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Anyone figure out yet what gets cut to free up the frames for this additional flying??

Here are the known schedules for the routes from TXL:

16 weekly flights to the U.S.

http://airlineroute.net/2016/03/30/ab-txl-w16/

Three to PUJ

http://airlineroute.net/2016/03/30/ab-txlpuj-w16/

This means at least three A332s at TXL.

AB is also getting two former JJ A332s.

http://www.planespotters.net/product...irbus&type=A330&fleetStatus=future
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:46 am

How is the route to Fort Myers, FL?
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:52 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 3):

The flight is always full(since its RSW's only longhaul flight) of Germans but in the summer there are more americans and they are increasing it from 3x weekly to 4x weekly this summer.
 
a380787
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:58 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 3):

That one is very diaspora oriented, so it should be fine for now ... even though AB's recent strategy has been mostly to AA hubs (sans the flopped launch of DFW)
 
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kasimir
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:43 am

Interesting development... I think AB is doing right to focus on its key markets to get the airline profitable in the short and mid-term.

I'm curious... Does anyone have information how the 2x weekly route to CUR is doing?
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:22 am

I wonder if this means they will bring back TXL-LAX?
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Anyone figure out yet what gets cut to free up the frames for this additional flying??

MUC to carribbean destinations get axed. The last remaining structures of the old LTU Network outside of DUS. Frees one 332
 
r2rho
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:45 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
MUC to carribbean destinations get axed. The last remaining structures of the old LTU Network outside of DUS. Frees one 332

A correct move IMO. AB should retrench its ops around DUS, TXL, and IMO also VIE. It's a pity that DUS operating restrictions don't allow for a more proper hub.
 
steman
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:52 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Announced today that Air Berlin will restructure longhaul ops to refocus back on the US and Caribbean markets from DUS and TXL bases.

I find this a little funny. It´s not like they ever had any long haul destination other than to the US and Caribbean. So what´s there to refocus back?
The only eastboud long haul (medium haul actually) flight is and will be just to AUH.
Since EY entered in the AB capital, the latter had to give up everything east of AUH.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:13 am

Quoting steman (Reply 10):
Since EY entered in the AB capital, the latter had to give up everything east of AUH.

arent w forgetting the likes of HKT etc??
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:51 am

Quoting steman (Reply 10):
Since EY entered

delete "entered", insert "provided".  
 
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mercure1
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:05 am

AB will announce its 2015 results the last week of April.

I suspect we will hear what their latest strategic vision is and what miracle plans they have this time to change their sinking fortunes.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:13 am

Quoting steman (Reply 10):
I find this a little funny. It´s not like they ever had any long haul destination other than to the US and Caribbean. So what´s there to refocus back?

No more MUC-Caribbean flights.
 
a380787
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:38 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 14):
No more MUC-Caribbean flights.

That's somewhat surprising given that LH has by and large ignored the Caribbean. They have that one FRA-CUN by Jump but that hardly counts for anything.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:42 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
That's somewhat surprising given that LH has by and large ignored the Caribbean. They have that one FRA-CUN by Jump but that hardly counts for anything.

LH yes, but not Condor which already serves some routes or will add others.

http://airlineroute.net/2016/02/18/de-w16update1/
 
uberflieger
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:46 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
what miracle plans they have this time

With Pichler for the first time Airberlin has a manager that thinks outside the box and I am banking on it buying shares.
AB in its current form is dead, but is a very attractive acquisition for somebody like EasyJet / Norwegian / Ryanair. Their core business is complimentary, while AB's experience in Intercontinental flying creates new opportunities.
Get ready to be surprised.  
 
steman
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:53 am

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 11):
arent w forgetting the likes of HKT etc??

AB stopped flying to HKT etc once EY became part owner and kind of imposed no more AB east of AUH.
There are no more AB flights to South East Asia (or any other place east of AUH)

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 14):
No more MUC-Caribbean flights.

So it´s a refocus back on TXL and DUS for the US/Caribbean market, rather than refocus on US/Caribbean.
That´s good for TXL. The long haul offer from Berlin is shamefully small. I´m actually surprised that Norwegian hasn´t thought of basing a couple of 787 in SXF and provide low cost flights to the US.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:06 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Interesting...I did not know that AB served ORD.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:10 pm

Does anyone know how DUS-BOS forward bookings are doing?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 9):
It's a pity that DUS operating restrictions don't allow for a more proper hub.

I have read often that DUS offers little or no growth opportunities. Is it because it is slot-controlled and already saturated? Curfews? Runway/terminal insufficiency?

I flew VIE-DUS and DUS-LHR some years ago and loved the airport. Plus, the catchment area of DUS is extremely prosperous and must generate healthy business demand, which would be sufficient for a nice, large hub. Can something be done?
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:23 am

They try to increase the movements per hour during the Peak times from 47 to 60. Not easy woith the NIMBYs, the Population is affluent but they forgot where the Money Comes from.
 
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:26 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):

I have read often that DUS offers little or no growth opportunities. Is it because it is slot-controlled and already saturated? Curfews? Runway/terminal insufficiency?

All comes into play, but it is mostly legal constraints relating to the maximum number of movements.

For an airport of that size (20m +), DUS is really close to downtown and located in a densely populated area. The airport area itself is also fairly small because of that, making expansion of infrastructure somewhat difficult (but not impossible).
 
r2rho
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:40 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
what miracle plans they have this time to change their sinking fortunes.

Don't worry, unlike the past 7 miracle plans, this one will work   

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
I have read often that DUS offers little or no growth opportunities. Is it because it is slot-controlled and already saturated? Curfews? Runway/terminal insufficiency?

Within the current restrictions, DUS is mostly saturated. But without physically changing anything, DUS could handle 33% more flights. Let me explain:

Although the airport has 2 runways and could manage 60 ops/hour if operating both, they are restricted to single rwy ops (45/hr) due to noise restrictions. As PanHAM stated, they have requested to be allowed to operate both runways during peak times, but the approval for that has to come from politicians, so it won't be easy with the NIMBY opposition.
60 ops/hour does not make a full-bown hub (which requires 90), but it would go a long way towards fully utilizing the available infrastructure and decreasing saturation.
Heck, if I were AB CEO and DUS had the capacity, I would just forget about Berlin ops and rename AB....LTU  

[Edited 2016-04-06 02:41:38]
 
SCQ83
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:45 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
I flew VIE-DUS and DUS-LHR some years ago and loved the airport. Plus, the catchment area of DUS is extremely prosperous and must generate healthy business demand, which would be sufficient for a nice, large hub. Can something be done?

There are pockets of prosperity, but many areas around DUS are quite rough (Essen, Duisburg, etc). Also the area has little interest for tourism.

On the other hand, Berlin is booming and becoming a world class destination.
 
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:36 pm

DUS serves one of the largest conurbations in the world and its catchment area extends to parts of the Netherlands.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 24):
As PanHAM stated, they have requested to be allowed to operate both runways during peak times, but the approval for that has to come from politicians, so it won't be easy with the NIMBY opposition.

Not sure if it is that straightforward. Decades ago, the airport traded off the right to expand against a voluntary restriction on the number of hourly movements and entered into a binding legal settlement to that effect. While I can understand the airport's wish to expand, I find it difficult to put the blame only on the NIMBYs that it is impossible (although I understand that this is a popular pastime on an aviation forum   )
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:36 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):

What do you mean by it's quite rough?
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:44 pm

If AB is going to focus their US service to AA hubs I would love to see DUS-PHL on their schedule some day soon. I know it has next to zero chance of happening but stranger things have benn known to happen in the airline business.
 
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:48 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 27):
What do you mean by it's quite rough?

I suppose he refers to the Ruhr area which in the 19th/20th century was Germany's powerhouse with lots of coal mining, steel works etc. that have disappeared over the past decades. Dusseldorf has traditionally been dubbed as the Ruhr area's office, with lots of companies having their administrative headquarters there (it is, for example, also Germany second most important base for law firms after Frankfurt). While those traditional industries have indeed declined and there is some unemployment, most regions in other industry nations would be quite happy with the situation.
 
yankeejuliet
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 28):

MBJ is an important AA/caribbean hub which is served by AB three times weekly from DUS using A330-200 equipment.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:25 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
I suppose he refers to the Ruhr area which in the 19th/20th century was Germany's powerhouse with lots of coal mining, steel works etc. that have disappeared over the past decades. Dusseldorf has traditionally been dubbed as the Ruhr area's office, with lots of companies having their administrative headquarters there (it is, for example, also Germany second most important base for law firms after Frankfurt). While those traditional industries have indeed declined and there is some unemployment, most regions in other industry nations would be quite happy with the situation.

Exactly. NRW is quite an stagnant region for European or even German standards (if you compare it with Munich or Berlin).

Look at airport traffic, which is always a good proxy. Traffic in NRW grew by 30% in the last ten years (of course this is arguable because of NRWers using FRA, but also Beneluxers use DUS) and in Berlin it has grown by 73% (!) even with no operable BER.

DUS 2005 15.51 million
DUS 2010 18.98 million
DUS 2015 22.48 million

CGN 2005 9.452 million
CGN 2010 9.849 million
CGN 2015 10.338 million

DTM 2005 1.742 million
DTM 2010 1.747 million
DTM 2015 1.985 million

DUS+CGN+DTM 2005 26.7 million
DUS+CGN+DTM 2015 34.8 million +30.3%

THF 2005 +- 400k

TXL 2005 11.53 million
TXL 2010 15.02 million
TXL 2015 21.00 million

SXF 2005 5.075 million
SXF 2010 7.29 million
SXF 2015 8.526 million

Berlin 2005 17 million
Berlin 2015 29.52 million +73.5%
 
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:38 pm

Difficult to compare. Berlin is much more inbound leisure-based (from which it derives its main grwoth) while Dusseldorf relies mainly on a mix of outbound leisure (which is fairly static) and business. Plus traditional feeder flights that feed hubs from TXL have been replaced in the DUS/CGN area by high-speed rail that feeds Germany's largest airport in Frankfurt.
 
a380787
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:44 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 32):

Difficult to compare. Berlin is much more inbound leisure-based (from which it derives its main grwoth) while Dusseldorf relies mainly on a mix of outbound leisure (which is fairly static) and business. Plus traditional feeder flights that feed hubs from TXL have been replaced in the DUS/CGN area by high-speed rail that feeds Germany's largest airport in Frankfurt.

Is there any meaningful amount of higher-yielding govt traffic out of TXL ?
 
SCQ83
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:03 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 32):
Difficult to compare. Berlin is much more inbound leisure-based (from which it derives its main grwoth) while Dusseldorf relies mainly on a mix of outbound leisure (which is fairly static) and business. Plus traditional feeder flights that feed hubs from TXL have been replaced in the DUS/CGN area by high-speed rail that feeds Germany's largest airport in Frankfurt.

To me it is very easy to compare. Berlin has grown much quicker than NRW. Air Berlin flying to the US also appeals to Americans visiting the city, so it is a win-win for AB. Air Berlin is in the business to fly passengers, so I can't see why they would rather fly someone from DUS on holiday to Florida rather than a New Yorker on holiday to Berlin.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 33):
Is there any meaningful amount of higher-yielding govt traffic out of TXL ?

To put in American perspective, DUS or CGN would be like the Chicagos or Milwaukees of Germany, while Berlin is like Austin or San Jose, CA.  http://www.dw.com/en/formerly-poor-b...y-berlin-is-now-booming/a-17255934

Berlin is booming, and there are "signs" all over the city. This NYT article is interesting and funny on its own way... because only 10 years many of the things in that article would be very unlikely in Berlin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/tr...vel/berlin-luxury-hotels.html?_r=0
 
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:12 pm

Government traffic in general and also in case of Berlin is wildly overestimated.

It is useful to keep in mind that we also need to see the traffic system as such. In Germany, Berlin is quite out of the way for many visitors, so the way to travel to/from Berlin is by plane. People visiting the Düsseldorf / Cologne are are within two hours of travel to Amsterdam, Brussels or Frankfurt, so they are not necessarily forced to use CGN and DUS to visit those cities. A lot of overseas friends of mine use FRA to visit NRW and and I and a lot of local people will simply hop on HSR to catch a long-haul flight from FRA (or BRU).

Plus the traffic type is different. BER is growing much faster, but the main gowth is from LCCs. DUS is growing more slowlym but has attracted high-end long-haul legacy carriers by legacy carriers such as ANA, Singapore and Cathay Pacific (plus EK A380s) - a type of traffic BER lacks almost completely.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:39 pm

Thanks to all for your explanations re: the situation of DUS and the difficulties for its expansion.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 35):
DUS is growing more slowlym but has attracted high-end long-haul legacy carriers by legacy carriers such as ANA, Singapore and Cathay Pacific (plus EK A380s) - a type of traffic BER lacks almost completely.

Yes, that is a great point. I think this is a good sign that DUS has quite premium inbound and outbound traffic.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:14 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 31):
Berlin 2005 17 million
Berlin 2015 29.52 million +73.5%

Dont be blinded by Berlin numbers. It might be a LCC heaven, but its not much of a longhaul market whatsoever. There is a reason why airlines are not tripping over themselves to launch Berlin longhauls.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 33):
Is there any meaningful amount of higher-yielding govt traffic out of TXL ?

Its a myth that government traffic is high yield by default. Its usually awarded on competitive bidding with lower rates.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 34):
, so I can't see why they would rather fly someone from DUS on holiday to Florida rather than a New Yorker on holiday to Berlin.

Because point of sale matters to airlines, especially someone like AB.

This is a great example why TXL-LAX flopped terribly, but while DUS-LAX has worked for 3 decades.

DUS-LAX sells over 80% German point of sale (per IATA BSP data) which is AB's strength, while TXL-LAX sold only fraction from Germany forcing AB to heavily discount at the US end to try to fill flight at what was a loss.
 
OB1504
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:21 pm

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 30):
MBJ is an important AA/caribbean hub which is served by AB three times weekly from DUS using A330-200 equipment.

MBJ is not an AA hub.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:29 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
I suppose he refers to the Ruhr area which in the 19th/20th century was Germany's powerhouse with lots of coal mining, steel works etc. that have disappeared over the past decades. Dusseldorf has traditionally been dubbed as the Ruhr area's

Bonn to Dortmund today is a vital region, things could always be better but the Change from "dirty" coal and teel to "cean" Services Business has been successful. Try to find a space for a new warehouse in prime NRW Location. Contrary to Berlin, the area is served by 3 ain Airports, with PAD, FMO and Weeze completing the Cluster.

That takes some pressure off DUSm especially CGN does with the permission for niht flights. Imagine a Service industry center without the possibility of overnight air cargo. LH and DUS is another story, the 2 companies are at Odds over Preference of the ME3 carriers, minly EK. Hence LH concentrates EW Long distance at CGN. I wouldn't bet aganst a future Transfer to DUS. Wold not be the firsttime.

As to the frquency increase, times Change, as aircraft get quieter all the time., frequencies increase. One cannot run an Airport in 2020 with the "promises" of 1960/70. The demand for air traffic Comes from peope, curfuews and Slot restrictions is against people's demand.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:48 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 31):

As mentioned, German point of sale matters here. The Ruhrgebiet, and the larger Rhein-Ruhr metropolitan region, is home to around 12 million people. That is the largest region in Germany, and the folks there tend to be middle class and higher. Meanwhile, Berlin/Brandenburg is half that size and, while Berlin itself has been booming, is still not caught up to the prosperity in the western part of the country.

Much of Berlin's traffic growth has been fueled by Intra-European and Intra-German tourism, as opposed to long haul tourism and significant business traffic. While Berlin sees plenty of tourists from outside Europe, those people get there on short haul flights from larger hubs or on trains. North Americans, for example, aren't saying "hey, let me buy a non-stop ticket to Berlin!" Instead, they go with hub transfers at the usual suspects: LHR/AMS/CDG/FRA/MUC and even the more minor ones at MAD/CPH/ARN/BRU/FCO. Berlin has the same problem Athens has - plenty of demand to go there, but not so much demand to go there without transferring. Meanwhile, DUS has both economic power and a substantial local population that likes to travel and has a history of service from LTU.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
Berlin has the same problem Athens has - plenty of demand to go there, but not so much demand to go there without transferring

I don't see any relation between Berlin and Athens.

Berlin is growing and adding well-paid and specialized jobs (i.e. technology). Those kind of jobs and the Berlin "lifestyle" attract people not only from the rest of Germany but also from the US or outside Europe to visit and live there. Also Berlin is becoming a target for foreign companies in more traditional fields (i.e. international institutional investors in RE) that now consider Berlin as a "core" market in the country; and consequently all additional professional services (consultancy, law, etc). Those functions used to be until very recently focused in HAM, MUC, DUS or FRA.

Berlin is growing undoubtedly to become "the" German global city, the London of Germany  
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:08 am

PHL seems like it would be perfect for AA connections??
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:18 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 41):
I don't see any relation between Berlin and Athens.

They are both poorly located national capitals and massive tourist destinations that have various factors influencing the fact that they will never have the kind of service that other large cities do. That is the similarity.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 41):
Berlin is growing undoubtedly to become "the" German global city, the London of Germany

Yeah, Frankfurt is already the banking capital of Germany, and that isn't changing.
 
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:02 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 41):
Berlin is growing undoubtedly to become "the" German global city, the London of Germany

Sure, and as it should be as Germany's capital and by far largest city. And I agree it is the only true "global" city in Germany.

Comparing Berlin and Düsseldorf is however, comparing apples and oranges to some extent: BER airports serve Berlin (and Potsdam). That's pretty much it. DUS (together with CGN) serves Europe's third largest conurbation (#1 is London, #2 Paris), although the city of Düsseldorf itself is relatively small. Therefore it relies much more on outbound traffic as Berlin which is much more tourism/hipster driven.

Another point is that from an economic perspective the comparison should not be passengers vs. passengers, but traffic units vs. traffic units. When taking that approach, the difference between DUS/CGN and TXL/SXF is quite different.

[Edited 2016-04-07 02:59:10]
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:48 am

without checking -combined traffic Units DTM DUS CGN ca. 45 Million vs. TXL and SXF less than 30 million
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:53 pm

Maybe this chart helps explain power of DUS.

It smack in the middle of the largest catchment area in Europe.
They did not even bother with Berlin as its a fringe traffic generating area.





Source: Lufthansa
 
SCQ83
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
Maybe this chart helps explain power of DUS.

It smack in the middle of the largest catchment area in Europe.
They did not even bother with Berlin as its a fringe traffic generating area.

Umm so from your logic, Stockholm (1.3 million people) has a larger catchment area than Manchester, Lisbon, Barcelona, Berlin or Hamburg (not mentioned).
 
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mercure1
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 41):
Berlin is growing undoubtedly to become "the" German global city, the London of Germany

   

I don't know what Berlin you know, but Berlin is very far from being a the German global city. Maybe for party folk, gays and other crowds, but not by any other means as an important financial and corporate by any measure.

Actually in my experience, Berlin is quite provincial city based on its population and lower economic standing especially outside city core.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 47):
Umm so from your logic, Stockholm (1.3 million people) has a larger catchment area than Manchester, Lisbon, Barcelona, Berlin or Hamburg (not mentioned).

Its obvious not all markets can be placed on the chart, but its pretty damming Lufthansa the largest German airline does not even bother listing Berlin, when it shows DUS, FRA and MUC.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Air Berlin Refocus Longhaul On USA And Caribbean

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:04 pm

You guys can talk up and believe what you will about Berlin, but numbers don't hide the fact that its very much a lower tier market, one with lower yields driven by primarily leisure demand, high LCC penetration, and limited longhaul demand.

Just looking across the Atlantic, the average TXL-JFK fare earned is almost 40% lower than a FRA-JFK ticket per IATA BSP data, thats no better than Eastern European markets like BUD or PRG for example!

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