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marosbts
Topic Author
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:56 pm

Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:47 pm

Austrian Airlines confirmed the writings on the wall - Tokyo has to go...

http://slovakaviation.sk/en/news/572-austrian-to-drop-tokio-flights

Lets hope that they will be able to make some money in Shanghai and Hong Kong. Hard to believe when they can not utilize and make profit on their NRT slots

[Edited 2016-04-06 11:49:40]

[Edited 2016-04-06 12:01:58]
 
Cipango
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:58 pm

I don't know a lot about the demographics of this route but, from what I have heard, Japanese tourism to Europe is declining as a result of the Paris attacks and presumably after the recent events in Brussels. I am not sure if this is the reason for its axing, but it might be a contributing factor.

Quoting marosbts (Thread starter):
Lets hope that they will be able to make some money in Shanghai and Tokyo.

Do you mean Shanghai and Hong Kong or Bangkok?
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:58 pm

DEL now NRT...disappointing.
 
jfk777
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:01 pm

What is going on in Japan, all kinds of European airlines are dropping it like Tokyo has cancer or at least Narita does. Virgin Atlantic dropped NRT, and Tokyo was their first none Atlantic route and now Austrian. I wonder if another member of the Lufthansa family is adding an NRT flight ? Virgin Atlantic now only flies to Hong Kong and Shanghai, they never flew to Singapore. I have always found that strange since Singapore Airlines paid 600 million pounds stering for 49% stake in Virgin, oh did they take a bath on that.
 
Cipango
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:05 pm

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 2):
DEL now NRT...disappointing.

In the meantime they have added HKG.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
I have always found that strange since Singapore Airlines paid 600 million pounds stering for 49% stake in Virgin, oh did they take a bath on that.

Given that the £600 million stake was sold for £224 million, they took quite a hit.
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
behramjee
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:41 pm

yes this is confirmed as all flights have been zero'd out on Sabre too...see below example of 27SEP

127SEPVIENRT‡OS«
27SEP TUE VIE/Z‡2 NRT/‡7
1OS 51 J0 C0 D0 Z0*VIENRT 1750 1155‡1 772 MS 0 DCA /E
P0 Y0 B0 M0 U0 H0 G0 Q0 V0 W0
 
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thekorean
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:47 pm

Well I guess there goes any hope for seeing OS at ICN.
 
hoons90
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 6):

Well I guess there goes any hope for seeing OS at ICN.

That's right, especially considering that KE already flies to VIE. At this point, I think LOT is the only European airline that we can expect to launch ICN service.
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
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HELyes
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:19 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):

What is going on in Japan, all kinds of European airlines are dropping it like Tokyo has cancer or at least Narita does.
Quoting Cipango (Reply 1):
Japanese tourism to Europe is declining

That doesn't show in HEL, in 2015 the passenger numbers on routes HEL to NRT KIX NGO operated by AY and JL grew +4%, the latest figures from 2016 show +8% growth. And this summer season AY is opening FUK, their fourth route to Japan.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting hoons90 (Reply 7):
I think LOT is the only European airline that we can expect to launch ICN service.

And we all know how well that will go.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
CX288
Posts: 14
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:53 am

Lufthansa German Airlines and ANA formed a strategic joint venture in 2012 commercially combining their operation between Japan and Europe. In April 2013 Austrian Airlines, along with SWISS, joined that cooperation as well.

It could thus very well be that ANA is going to take over the NRT-VIE with a 787, an aircraft more suited for the route than the 777. This would allow Austrian to use its limited number of 777 on other routes where it or Lufthansa thinks can make more money.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 450
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:11 am

KLM has decreased it's frequency to NRT this summer.

It would be nice to see S15 capacity vs S16 capacity for Europe-Tokyo.

[Edited 2016-04-06 22:12:26]
 
SCQ83
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:29 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
What is going on in Japan, all kinds of European airlines are dropping it like Tokyo has cancer or at least Narita does. Virgin Atlantic dropped NRT, and Tokyo was their first none Atlantic route and now Austrian.

Iberia is adding NRT this coming winter season; not everybody is dropping Tokyo.
 
YLWbased
Posts: 905
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:33 am

And they're starting HKG.

YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
hz747300
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:41 am

Regarding the HKG add, I know around the same time CX added MAD, the Austrian Consul General mentioned that OS was adding HKG, but it did not get much play in the news. Has this actually been confirmed?

Honestly, I think with HND opening up more to International Routes, there is less of a need for NRT. Unless a population is absolutely demanding Tokyo travel and HND slots are not available, existing one hop service should be sufficient.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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thekorean
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:00 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 9):

No one says it has to be daily and O&D.

Plus LO has potential partner in OZ, and OZ European coverage is lacking to say the least. FRA, CDG, LHR, FCO for some reason.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:19 am

Tokyo is becoming more difficult now as it has become a split-operations city. Before it was pretty clear cut: Domestic HND and International NRT with some feeder flights into the latter. Now with the increasing international operation at HND it is causing fewer flights into NRT. Afterall, NRT is a bitch to go get to.

With LH at HND as well and limited slots I guess it would be impossible to move OZ flights. In addition OZ is quickly becoming a "lower cost" wing of LH so I doubt the cost of slots would be paid for.
Base: BRU
 
jetwet1
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:40 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
I have always found that strange since Singapore Airlines paid 600 million pounds stering for 49% stake in Virgin, oh did they take a bath on that.

They spend 600m pounds on a 49% stake and you find it strange that that airline did not then go into direct competition with them ?
 
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Putnik
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:04 am

I have a feeling that Turkish Airlines has something to do with this, far more than other competitors. TK Asian network has grown significantly, they are flying to every possible city in Europe and the prices for Tokyo and Osaka have always been very competitive.

While we are all discussing ME3, TK is doing a rather good job... even if their hub at IST leaves a lot to be desired.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys."
 
YLWbased
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:28 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 14):
Austrian Consul General mentioned that OS was adding HKG, but it did not get much play in the news. Has this actually been confirmed?
http://holland.pk/8p5imyj4

YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:01 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 14):
Has this actually been confirmed?
Austrian Announces HKG (by LAXintl Mar 11 2016 in Civil Aviation)
mercure f-wtcc
 
N1120A
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:04 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 14):
Regarding the HKG add, I know around the same time CX added MAD, the Austrian Consul General mentioned that OS was adding HKG, but it did not get much play in the news. Has this actually been confirmed?

Not only confirmed, but bookable with some decent deals.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:58 am

I'm certain the ME3 didn't help.

Emirates is going A380 to VIE in July.

 
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8871
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:56 am

I have flown Austrian to NRT twice this year. Can't remember what the load was like in economy in March (business was probably about two-thirds full) but when I flew VIE-NRT two days ago I walked through the cabin and counted 63 passengers in economy and about 20 in business. I certainly did wonder if that could go on, I mean, I know there are quiet days but most airlines are able to fill their planes on quiet days by dropping the fare. In the modern age of computer analysis of demand, I am amazed Austrian can't at least mitigate their losses on the route by filling an extra 100 seats by discounting, sure they'll still lose money and the route will get the chop eventually anyway but not realising a few hundred € each for those 100+ empty seats in economy is mind-boggling -- they must have truly been unable to give them away (or Lufty didn't want them to hurt the mothership or Swiss by gouging).

Shame because Vienna is a great little hub, extremely easy to get through (both times my connection time from LHR has been forty-five minutes and both times the inbound A320 has parked on a remote stand, yet made it through security and up to the gate for the 777 to NRT with ease) and the experience onboard the 777 is just fantastic, catering is superb, service excellent (better the first time but both times decent), seat excellent (same as Swiss basically, forward facing alternating flat beds), no complaints. I thought I'd found the best way to NRT, maybe it was too good to be true.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
goldorak
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:15 am

Most routes Europe-Japan are suffering since January 2015 (Charlie terrorist attack in Paris) because Japanese people are scared to go to Europe. And the multiple attacks since that in Paris, Brussels, Istanbul, etc have increased their fears. So business traffic is usually doing fine but not the tourist traffic. Both European and Japanese airlines are affected.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5828
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:32 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 24):
Most routes Europe-Japan are suffering since January 2015 (Charlie terrorist attack in Paris) because Japanese people are scared to go to Europe. And the multiple attacks since that in Paris, Brussels, Istanbul, etc have increased their fears. So business traffic is usually doing fine but not the tourist traffic. Both European and Japanese airlines are affected.

Umm? Japanese tourism to Spain increased by 31% in January-August 2015 (and that after a record 2014)

http://www.hosteltur.com/112945_boom-turismo-japones-espana.html

Europe is big and maybe Asian or American tourists avoid some destinations in the continent, but that doesn't keep them from visiting other cities or countries.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:01 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 20):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):

Sorry, I missed it. Good to know--and it matches SAS's flight timings too. I think there's room at this time for more Euro flights. Due to a tech delay, I once flew BA at 10am leaving LHR landing at 5am and I quite liked it. I hope AZ and a couple of others follow suit. CX only does gay Paris & London in the mornings.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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DolphinAir747
Posts: 1901
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:12 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
Umm? Japanese tourism to Spain increased by 31% in January-August 2015 (and that after a record 2014)

Yes probably because many are going to Spain instead of other European countries.

When JL cut NRT-CDG they blamed the drop in tourist demand on the attacks. I doubt NH's NRT-BRU will last much longer.
 
NH203
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:39 am

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:00 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 27):

JL only suspended NRT-CDG for a few weeks in Jan/Feb. They didn't cut it.

NH's NRT-BRU is primarily about business travelers. For example Toyotas European HQ is in BRU.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:54 pm

Quoting NH203 (Reply 28):
JL only suspended NRT-CDG for a few weeks in Jan/Feb. They didn't cut it.

NH has axed completely NRT-CDG.
 
B757capt
Posts: 1403
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:00 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):

Yep! That was my thoughts!
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
NH203
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:39 am

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:17 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 29):

True, they shifted the flight to BRU. However, the poster I responded to claimed that JL axed CDG-NRT. They didn't.
 
Cassi
Posts: 94
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RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:43 pm

The problem with this NRT -> HKG switch is that while demand is probably better on this route, the ME3 are hyper-competitive between Europe and HKG, operating several daily A380's and offering very low prices year-around. I doubt OS can match that.

My first trip to Japan was on OS51 back in 2003, when it was still operated by A343's. But since then, a lot has happened. OS needs to come up with a better strategy or it will be forced to drop its remaining Asian flights one by one.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:19 am

Quoting Cassi (Reply 32):
operating several daily A380's and offering very low prices year-around. I doubt OS can match that.

EK flies ~3 A380s / day +1 77W
EY 1 A332 / day, sometimes listed as an Air Seychelles plane
QR 2 A332/3 day now that CX dropped their DOH flight
TK has 1 77W /day (may not be daily year round)

One of the EK A380s goes via BKK, flown it many times and most people are flying only between BKK/HKG as a full service cheap way to get to Bangkok.

When I flew to London on EK I took the 6pm flight direct to Dubai, and most people in Business Class were going onward to London, a few to other places in Europe.

It's funny, we've had the SAS flight to ARN for several months now and the local ads are advertising it as fast way to Europe, just like Aeroflot and Finnair. Be curious to see how Austrian positions themselves in local advertising.
Keep on truckin'...
 
mats01776
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:10 pm

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:50 am

Quoting HELyes (Reply 8):
And this summer season AY is opening FUK, their fourth route to Japan.

If I flew AY through Helsinki to Fukuoka, my mother will wash my luggage tag (and, probably, my mouth also) with a bar of soap.

[Edited 2016-04-09 17:59:00]
 
musapapaya
Posts: 1029
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:17 pm

Quoting mats01776 (Reply 34):
If I flew AY through Helsinki to Fukuoka, my mother will wash my luggage tag (and, probably, my mouth also) with a bar of soap.

Why so?
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Austrian To Drop Tokyo

Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:07 pm

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 35):

All I'll say is the 3-letter code is FUK.
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