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wxman11
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KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:16 pm

Hi folks,

In case if none of you guys didn't know, KLM will send their B787-9 SFO next month on a temporary basis.

"7-Apr-2016 4:45 PM
© CAPA
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines plans to launch a seasonal daily Amsterdam-San Francisco service from 04-May-2016, using Boeing 787-9 equipment (Airways News, 06-Apr-2016). Air France-KLM USA GM Eric Caron said the addition of this new Dreamliner service “reflects our commitment” to the market. As previously reported by CAPA, KLM introduced the 789 in Nov-2016, and currently four aircraft serve Abu Dhabi, Chengdu, Delhi, Hangzhou, Muscat, Rio de Janeiro, Osaka and Xiamen."

Nice to see another 787 come into SFO. Get your camera's ready.
 
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SFOA380
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:39 pm

This is a twice-weekly service on a 789. This is in addition to daily 744. So nine weekly for summer 2016.
 
stealth777
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:43 pm

here is a link to an article that provides a little bit more information about the twice-weekly service with the B789.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...-first-u-s-boeing-787-destination/
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:55 pm

They should be a bit more careful with those "commitment to the market" comments because Curacao in about 90% of the cases always gets the oldest aircraft and this only changes when the aircraft is phased out. That's not showing "commitment" to this market.


A388
 
Joost
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:01 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):

They should be a bit more careful with those "commitment to the market"

Commitment to the market seems to reflect the additional capacity, not per se the aircraft type.
The 744 Full pax aircraft used on SFO are the same that are sent to CUR, LAX, JFK or NBO.

And by the way, for J-class travelers the 747 is far superior to the newer Airbus fleet.

For SFO: next winter, KL will use the 789 on the daily flights to SFO, replacing 332/333 mix used last winter. Considering the stage length, using an efficient aircraft like the 787 is a very logical choice.
 
Sooner787
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:04 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
For SFO: next winter, KL will use the 789 on the daily flights to SFO, replacing 332/333 mix used last winter. Considering the stage length, using an efficient aircraft like the 787 is a very logical choice.

Between all the UA 787's , plus VS and now KLM, SFO is quickly turning into
"Dreamliner Country"  
 
audidudi
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:18 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 5):

You can add the CZ B788 to the list also!

[Edited 2016-04-07 09:38:30]
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
Commitment to the market seems to reflect the additional capacity, not per se the aircraft type.
The 744 Full pax aircraft used on SFO are the same that are sent to CUR, LAX, JFK or NBO.

I understand that but their 77W's are a perfect replacement for CUR as it matches their full pax 744 capacity perfectly but still we get their full pax 744's most likely until they are retired.


A388
 
N1120A
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:46 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I understand that but their 77W's are a perfect replacement for CUR as it matches their full pax 744 capacity perfectly but still we get their full pax 744's most likely until they are retired.

The 744 is a larger, more comfortable plane. Also, the 77W would have issues with even the short hop out of SXM.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:59 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
The 744 is a larger, more comfortable plane. Also, the 77W would have issues with even the short hop out of SXM.

If KL wants to keep flying to SXM in the future too they have no other 4-engine aircraft to replace the 744 so they will have issues on their SXM route anyway if they want to combine it with CUR. If they fly to SXM as a destination on its own, this issue will most likely be better resolved. A332 to SXM and 77W to CUR sounds good to me  


A388
 
cedarjet
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:07 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
If KL wants to keep flying to SXM in the future too they have no other 4-engine aircraft to replace the 744 so they will have issues on their SXM route anyway if they want to combine it with CUR. If they fly to SXM as a destination on its own, this issue will most likely be better resolved. A332 to SXM and 77W to CUR sounds good to me

I thought the CUR stop was precisely because the runway at SXM is too short to get back to Europe nonstop. I guess Air France manage OK with their A340s but Air Caraibes A330 service from SXM to ORY goes via PAP the same way KLM goes via CUR. Uncoupling SXM from CUR won't make it easier to reach Holland, surely it'll make it harder?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
N1120A
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
If they fly to SXM as a destination on its own, this issue will most likely be better resolved. A332 to SXM and 77W to CUR sounds good to me

The A332 would have the same problems.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jasoncrh
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:14 pm

to pluralize the word "camera", simply add an s. an 's makes camera possessive, not plural

Quoting wxman11 (Thread starter):
Nice to see another 787 come into SFO. Get your camera's ready.
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:38 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
The A332 would have the same problems.

N1120A, any long haul wide body twin engine aircraft KL has will have the same problem so I don't know what your point is. In your opinion KL must stop SXM entirely because they don't have any 4 engine long haul aircraft in their fleet? Do you know any twin engined widebody aircraft can be used to/from SXM of it isn't fully loaded? Air Caraibes does the same, why can they do it and KL not?


A388
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:43 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
I thought the CUR stop was precisely because the runway at SXM is too short to get back to Europe nonstop. I guess Air France manage OK with their A340s but Air Caraibes A330 service from SXM to ORY goes via PAP the same way KLM goes via CUR.

Some of the Air Caraibes flights are operated nonstop to/from SXM both ways. Again the problem with SXM is that a twin engined wide body aircraft can't take-off FULLY loaded. It can however operated from SXM with load restrictions just as wide body aircraft are used to high altitude airports with load restrictions (think BOG, MDE, UIO).


A388
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:32 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
They should be a bit more careful with those "commitment to the market" comments because Curacao in about 90% of the cases always gets the oldest aircraft and this only changes when the aircraft is phased out. That's not showing "commitment" to this market.

You conveniently overlook KLM's 'commitment' to the CUR market with additional A330 flights this summer, raising frequency to 10x/week.
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 15):
You conveniently overlook KLM's 'commitment' to the CUR market with additional A330 flights this summer, raising frequency to 10x/week.

No not conveniently overlooked, it stands at 9 x week as it always has been for the past few years. And to be clear again, I'm not talking about the capacity used, I'm talking about the aircraft types used. To totally different types of commitment.


A388
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:21 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
it stands at 9 x week as it always has been for the past few years

Apparently you are not aware that KLM will operate 10x/week in certain weeks this S16, a new commitment to CUR:

- dep. CUR 15:25 - arr. AMS 06:40 KL0736/785 daily B744
- dep. CUR 19:30 - arr. AMS 11:00 KL0734 Tue, Thu, Sat A332
 
MaxxFlyer
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 12):

to pluralize the word "camera", simply add an s. an 's makes camera possessive, not plural

Why do people feel it important to correct other people's grammar and spelling? As long as the point is made, I really don't care if how it's conveyed.
 
theSFOspotter
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:45 am

Great news as always. I think this was announced in December.
Q-400 A319 A320 B737-300/400/700/800/900ER B757-200/300 B787-8
 
cedarjet
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:00 am

When people complain about an airline's lack of "commitment" I just don't think they've thought it through. I mean, people complain about BA not committing to Australia like they used to (pre ME3), but serving Sydney daily with the 777-336ER requires three aeroplanes. Well those things cost $250 million a piece, so they've COMMITTED three-quarters of a BILLION dollars of hardware to that one route. Hardly lacking commitment! And same with KLM, take the city you think they're not keen on, and work out how much infrastructure, payroll, office rent, advertising, IT, and of course aeroplanes cost to serve it then tell us they're "not committed".
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:21 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Also, the 77W would have issues with even the short hop out of SXM.
Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
so they will have issues on their SXM route anyway if they want to combine it with CUR

A 77W would have no "issues" with SXM-CUR
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:39 am

Factsonly again please read my post again what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the capacity commitment.


A388

[Edited 2016-04-08 05:35:31]
 
EricAY05
Posts: 231
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:43 am

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 12):

You noticed that, but not the double negative in the first sentence? 
 
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PW100
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:24 pm

Quoting EricAY05 (Reply 23):
You noticed that, but not the double negative in the first sentence?

 
Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 18):
Why do people feel it important to correct other people's grammar and spelling? As long as the point is made, I really don't care if how it's conveyed.

I don't have any problem with that. In fact, I usually appreciate such support, as long as it is brought in a respectful way.
I didn't see his feed back as unrespectful (to make use of another double negative . . . ).
In fact, it was right here on airliners.net that I learned this english lesson just last year - and hav ebeen using it since:

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 12):
to pluralize the word "camera", simply add an s. an 's makes camera possessive, not plural
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
Joost
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
I'm talking about the aircraft types used. To totally different types of commitment.

As long as CUR is 4232nm from AMS, it will always be one of the destinations to receive the older aircraft. Just like NBO, ORD or YUL. Simply because KLM will put the most fuel efficient (newest) aircraft on the longest routes, in order to save on fuel. Additionally, CUR isn't a very big cargo market, so the additional payload newer aircraft can carry cannot be used here.

In Summer 2017, when the 744s start leaving the fleet, AMS-SFO will be changed from 744 to 77W, simply because it's 500nm further than CUR.

And for the 789 deployment on the AMS-AUH-MCT route: this is mostly for training and familiarization purposes: it's a route that offers 4 landings every 24 hours. From Summer 2017, when the fleet of 787s has grown, AMS-AUH will revert to the more suitable 333.
 
EddieDude
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Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 25):
From Summer 2017, when the fleet of 787s has grown, AMS-AUH will revert to the more suitable 333.

 
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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Polot
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 25):
Additionally, CUR isn't a very big cargo market, so the additional payload newer aircraft can carry cannot be used here.

It also doesn't help that KL has virtually no competition for any business traffic on the route and that the market is VFR/tourist heavy so no need to have the latest and greatest product.
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:16 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 24):
didn't see his feed back as unrespectful (to make use of another double negative . . . ).
In fact, it was right here on airliners.net that I learned this english lesson just last year - and hav ebeen using it since:

I wasn't implying the comment was disrespectful, it just seems correcting people's grammar doesn't really add to the actual discussion. If the original comment was made by someone with a flag of a non-English speaking country, I get it. Otherwise it's kinda petty to me.
 
Joost
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 27):
It also doesn't help that KL has virtually no competition for any business traffic on the route and that the market is VFR/tourist heavy so no need to have the latest and greatest product.

It doesn't really seem to influence KLM's fleet planning.
At this very moment, KLM has a full-flat C-class product on all 747s, 772s and 789s; but 8 of the 11 77Ws still have a 2-3-2 angled seat in C, and also the complete airbus fleet has a traditional 2-2-2, angled seat.

The 747-400 full pax was the first sub fleet to be refitted and because of that, CUR was actually among the first destinations to receive the new business class.

And on the other hand, KLM is flying 77W and A330 (with the 'old' business class) on very competitive routes like SIN (SQ: full-flat), BKK (BR: full-flat), YYZ (AC: full-flat), IAD (UA: full-flat).

When looking at KLM's destinations by aircraft type, you see that, bar some exceptions, the A330 (red) and the B747 (orange) are their aircraft of choice on routes below 4,500nm. The more fuel efficient 777 (blue) and 787 (green) are put on the longer routes.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=c:%23000099,%0d%0aams-lim/gru/cpt/jnb/nrt/pty/sfo/yyz/bkk/pvg/dxb/yvr,ams-uio-gye,ams-eze-scl,ams-sin-dps,ams-kul-cgk,ams-tpe-mnl,ams-bog-clo%0d%0a%0d%0a%0d%0ac:%23009900,%0d%0aams-kix/ctu/xmn/gig/yyc/icn/hgh/del,%0d%0a%0d%0ac:%23990000,%0d%0aams-hav/yyc/los/slc/iad/yul/acc,ams-auh-mct,ams-doh-bah,ams-kwi-dmm,ams-aua-bon,ams-ebb-kgl,ams-jro-dar%0d%0a%0d%0ac:%23dd6600,%0d%0aams-lax/ord/nbo/mex/iah/jfk/pek/hkg,ams-sxm-cur%0d%0a%0d%0a%0d%0a%0d%0a&R=c:%23990000,4500nm%40ams&MS=wls2&MC=AMS&MR=1800&MX=720x360&PM=*
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 29):
Quoting Polot (Reply 27):It also doesn't help that KL has virtually no competition for any business traffic on the route and that the market is VFR/tourist heavy so no need to have the latest and greatest product.
It doesn't really seem to influence KLM's fleet planning.
At this very moment, KLM has a full-flat C-class product on all 747s, 772s and 789s; but 8 of the 11 77Ws still have a 2-3-2 angled seat in C, and also the complete airbus fleet has a traditional 2-2-2, angled seat.

The 747-400 full pax was the first sub fleet to be refitted and because of that, CUR was actually among the first destinations to receive the new business class.

And on the other hand, KLM is flying 77W and A330 (with the 'old' business class) on very competitive routes like SIN (SQ: full-flat), BKK (BR: full-flat), YYZ (AC: full-flat), IAD (UA: full-flat).

When looking at KLM's destinations by aircraft type, you see that, bar some exceptions, the A330 (red) and the B747 (orange) are their aircraft of choice on routes below 4,500nm. The more fuel efficient 777 (blue) and 787 (green) are put on the longer routes.

Joost, as always thanks for the great posts and explanation. I was only hoping KL would one day use a new aircraft to CUR only if it was for once   I fully understand what you're saying. The lack of competition on the AMS-CUR indeed doesn't help and we don't have an EK or QR flying this route so KL has no need to upgrade. I just wish they will one day if it is only for once  


A388
 
factsonly
Posts: 2958
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:29 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 30):
I was only hoping KL would one day use a new aircraft to CUR only if it was for once

KLM operates multiple A333 / A332 services to CUR per week, here are the delivery dates:

- #925 330-203 12/04/2013 PH-AON lsd from ALC Named Museumplein - Amsterdam
- #1161 330-203 22/10/2010 PH-AOM Named Piazza San Marco-Venezia
- #1287 330-303 29/02/2012 PH-AKA Named Times Square New York
- #1294 330-303 20/03/2012 PH-AKB Named Piazza Navona-Roma
- #1300 330-303 18/04/2012 PH-AKD Named Piazza de la Catedral - La Habana
- #1381 330-303 27/02/2013 PH-AKE Named Praçia De Rossio - Lisboa
- #1580 330-303 03/12/2014 PH-AKF Named: Hofplein - Rotterdam

These are new aircraft, in terms of aircraft age.

Dear A388, our message to you is that you are emotional about the age and type of aircraft, when in fact the product offering on AMS-CUR is exactly the same as global business travelers receive from KLM on any other long-haul route of KLM to the great cities of the world.

CUR is up there with the other great B744 cities: SFO, LAX, IAH, JFK, YYZ, PEK, PVG, HKG, SEL, and CUR.

Very few Caribbean islands receive such world class services.
 
A388
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 31):
Very few Caribbean islands receive such world class services.

Thanks factsonly.


A388
 
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bgm
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:00 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 28):
I wasn't implying the comment was disrespectful, it just seems correcting people's grammar doesn't really add to the actual discussion. If the original comment was made by someone with a flag of a non-English speaking country, I get it. Otherwise it's kinda petty to me.

Quite the opposite actually. It's pretty shameful that the non-native English speakers on this forum typically write better English than the native speakers.

Poor spelling and grammar in your native tongue usually points to either laziness, or poor education.
Hires only the best people... lol
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 33):

Quite the opposite actually. It's pretty shameful that the non-native English speakers on this forum typically write better English than the native speakers.

Poor spelling and grammar in your native tongue usually points to either laziness, or poor education.

I agree some people in my country could do much better with their grammar, etc. The only thing I ever shake my head at is the usage of the word "aircrafts" when referring to more than one aircraft.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:52 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 34):

Yep. "Aircrafts" is a pet peeve of mine too but I always hold my tongue. Glad to know I am not the only one. Along with "shrimps" unless you are using it as a verb, "He shrimps in the Gulf of Mexico"
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
factsonly
Posts: 2958
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RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:46 pm

April 11, 2016: KLM increases its commitment to CUR, AUA and BON further in Summer 2016, due to high demand.

Today KLM announced further increases in its flight frequency to Curacao, Aruba and Bonaire for the period July to September 2016:

- CUR flights increase from 10x to 11x per week.
- AUA flights from 5x to 6x per week.
- BON flights from x to 6x per week.

AMS - CUR:
- dep. 10:00 - arr. 13:35 KLM B747 daily
- dep. 13:45 - arr. 17:55 KLM A332 Tue, Fri, Sat, Sun

AMS - AUA:
- dep. 12:25 - arr. 16:30 KLM A332 Mon, Wed, Sat non-stop
- dep. 12.25 - arr. 18:25 KLM A332 Thu, Fri, Sun via BON
 
76er
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

RE: KLM 787-9 To SFO

Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:27 am

Following the AF announcement last week that it wil upgrade the 330 business class to full flat, KL will follow suit. So in about a year or 2, the entire widebody fleet will offer a consistant product up front. A good thing.

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