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apfpilot
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A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:25 pm

This might be the world's most insignificant question, but is the B6 A321 from Mobile in Service yet? If so has anyone seen the new safety card? I'm assuming that it says that "Final Assembly of this Aircraft was completed in the United States?" Shame that this silly reg will now require an airline like B6 to have separate safety cards throughout the fleet depending on manufacturing location and not just equipage.
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Heinkel
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:32 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Thread starter):
"Final Assembly of this Aircraft was completed in the United States?"

Is that text in the safety card made to warn passengers, that the safety of such aircraft is different from a/c assembled in other countries? May be worse?
 
MEA-707
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting Heinkel (Reply 1):
Is that text in the safety card made to warn passengers, that the safety of such aircraft is different from a/c assembled in other countries? May be worse?

It was a bit a populist law by US Congress during the Iraq war that Airbus planes would have cards showing it was made in France or Germany. The French and Germans didn't support the war so the lawmakers hoped that the customers would choose to fly Boeings instead and boycot Airbus operating airlines. The era of Freedom fries. Seems silly 10 years later. Perhaps some Embraer Brasilia crashes in the 1990s also didn't help.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
EIDL
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:46 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
It was a bit a populist law by US Congress during the Iraq war that Airbus planes would have cards showing it was made in France or Germany. The French and Germans didn't support the war so the lawmakers hoped that the customers would choose to fly Boeings instead and boycot Airbus operating airlines. The era of Freedom fries. Seems silly 10 years later. Perhaps some Embraer Brasilia crashes in the 1990s also didn't help.

Which backfired by requiring a few MDs flown by Delta and AA to have China on the cards...
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:43 pm

I have a hard time believing that the FAA would spend much time enforcing let alone fining any airline that was not entirely accurate about this useless piece of 'safety' information. I remember at Frontier we did have A320s that were built in both Hamburg and Toulouse which I am sure some airlines do as well, but we only had one A320 safety card that said France.

However, the US airlines will probably have a separate card for these if they pay attention to the detail.

As MEA-707 mentioned, the origin of this was politically motivated and this explains its origin:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/regions...Required-on-Safety-Cards_2734.html

It is in 14 CFR 121.571(b)(3) as required from June 12, 2005.
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Transpac787
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:58 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 4):

I have a hard time believing that the FAA would spend much time enforcing let alone fining any airline that was not entirely accurate about this useless piece of 'safety' information

Delta has two separate MD90 cards for exactly this reason. Ships 9201-9263 carry a card that says "Final assembly of this aircraft was completed in the United States", where ships 9264-9265 carry a card that says "Final assembly of this aircraft was completed in the China".

They'll eventually have to do the exact same thing for their forthcoming A321 fleet, as they are due ships from both Germany and the US.
 
coolian2
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:02 pm

This law was clearly politically motivated and is just silly.

Why? If I fly LATAM into the United States, where does my safety card tell me where my plane was made?

I mean, I'll know (roughly, between Hamburg and Toulouse I'd be guessing), but it's so domestically focused. As said above, given the time it was passed we all know why it was.

In theory, I actually like the idea - mostly as a spotter and a nerd. But when you consider:

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 4):
I remember at Frontier we did have A320s that were built in both Hamburg and Toulouse which I am sure some airlines do as well, but we only had one A320 safety card that said France.

What's the point?
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:36 pm

The "Freedom Fries" comment made me laugh. The French were trying to tell us we could not win a war in Afghanistan and guess what--they were right. The Russians tried to warn us off, too. But no--we have to do things OUR way even if it does cost us trillions of dollars in debt, thousands of young lives and people and families that will never psychologically recover.

Sometimes you just have to listen to your friends.

Congress frequently comes up with silly rules like saying where the aircraft was built. Take a look at our coins--they are so junked up with excess verbiage placed there at the express order of congress.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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Polot
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:51 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
The "Freedom Fries" comment made me laugh. The French were trying to tell us we could not win a war in Afghanistan and guess what--they were right. The Russians tried to warn us off, too. But no--we have to do things OUR way even if it does cost us trillions of dollars in debt, thousands of young lives and people and families that will never psychologically recover.

The "Freedom Fries" thing was all over Iraq, not Afghanistan.
 
apfpilot
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:55 pm

No doubt that it is a very silly law, but there are plenty of those to go around. Look at Canada and their radio and television airtime requirements.

Just wondering about the logistics of the whole thing.
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TZTriStar500
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:51 pm

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 6):
What's the point?

The required verbiage in the regulation states "Final assembly of this airplane was completed in [INSERT NAME OF COUNTRY]."] so technically F9 should have had different cards for the A320 that said France or Germany since the EU is not a country. We did not have separate cards when I was there though.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
nws2002
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:13 am

I'm guessing you can't say "Final assembly of the airplane was completed in France, Germany, or the United States."
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:19 am

As compliance with the law however silly it may be keeps the airline out of legal trouble. The cost of producing the safety cards is far cheaper than whatever fine that could be imposed for non-compliance.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
Fixinthe757
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:12 am

It is not in service yet. Saw it doing more engine runs and then sitting next to the American 321 a little later.
 
CPH-R
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:46 am

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 13):
It is not in service yet. Saw it doing more engine runs and then sitting next to the American 321 a little later.

It went up yesterday for a brief test flights over to New Orleans and back again: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wzma/#95a389b
 
32andBelow
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:18 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 12):

Work for an airline that had to do a lightning revision to stay out of trouble on this very issue
 
rbavfan
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:44 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
The "Freedom Fries" thing was all over Iraq, not Afghanistan.

And the point that the French did not create french fries totally got lost on politicians. Some of whom would try to show you the "state" of Africa on a map. So they will leave this silly waste of time in the law when its useless.
 
WIederling
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:17 am

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 11):
I'm guessing you can't say "Final assembly of the airplane was completed in France, Germany, or the United States."

Glass of honey in an irish shop( years ago): "Made in countries of the EEC"  

Ergo:
"This plane was made in countries of the planet Earth."
( which is, going by production processes, 100% correct.)

At the time the British Empire required "Made in Germany" markings on German products to tag "cheap copies".

Didn't take long to turn this around into a high quality seal.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:35 am

Ahhhh, this ludicrous story. Yes.

How about adding: "This aircraft is certified for commercial use in the United States." (Huh, so the scared passenger asks, when did I last fly on a non-certified plane???)

We can even improve on that. We can give actual safety data to the consumers... "This aircraft type has been involved in 3 deadly accidents during the past ten years."


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
bennett123
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:33 am

I recall being in NY in 2006 and taking a helicopter trip over the city.

Our helicopter was N456AE, which we were told was an EC130.

I was tempted to ask what EC stood for, but decided this was not a smart move  
 
WIederling
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:50 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
We can even improve on that. We can give actual safety data to the consumers... "This aircraft type has been involved in 3 deadly accidents during the past ten years."

With things like this the criteria tend to be selected for an at least perceived "leveling the table" effect.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:10 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 12):

As compliance with the law however silly it may be keeps the airline out of legal trouble. The cost of producing the safety cards is far cheaper than whatever fine that could be imposed for non-compliance.

The government actually has people checking for this nonsense? Seems like a waste of resources.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:34 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 11):

I'm guessing you can't say "Final assembly of the airplane was completed in France, Germany, or the United States."

I know that Frontier has (or at least had, I haven't been on one of their planes in a year or so) "Final assembly of this aircraft completed in France or Germany" on their safety cards. It always struck me as interesting that they could get away with this, given that DL had to have separate cards for just 2 or 3 MD-90s that were built in China.
Good goes around!
 
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SAAFNAV
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RE: A321 In Mobile Safety Card

Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:25 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 21):

As compliance with the law however silly it may be keeps the airline out of legal trouble. The cost of producing the safety cards is far cheaper than whatever fine that could be imposed for non-compliance.

The government actually has people checking for this nonsense? Seems like a waste of resources.

Have you met the FAA?
ex L-382G Loadmaster, ex C-130B Navigator, Möchtegern Flugzeugführer

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