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Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:07 pm

Part 1 was archieved, please continue your discussion here

Delta To Place Narrowbody Order (by chrisp390 Apr 7 2016 in Civil Aviation)
 
flyabr
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:44 pm

I see a potential split order between the C-Series and 738. With many 739ERs still to come and Boeing hungry to fill up the NG slots, I could see a very good 738 deal being floated DL's way. The 738s could fill in some of the MD-88 replacement where a slight upgrade in capacity is desired. The CS300 could fill in as a lower end MD-88 replacement for routes that require a bit less capacity. And then of course the CS100 would cover the capacity gap just below the CS300. I can't really see any Airbus planes in this order unless they decide to pick up more A321s to cover 757s leaving the fleet in the not too distant future.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:14 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 1):
I can't really see any Airbus planes in this order unless they decide to pick up more A321s to cover 757s leaving the fleet in the not too distant future.

Considering all the upgauging of fleets recently and the fact that there is no direct 757 replacement or in the very near future I can totally see another A321 order in DL's future especially given DL's large existing fleet of 757's.

I do hope to see a CSeries order coming to ATL for both DL and BBD. I love the 3/2 seating configuration and have flown MD88/90's from every DL hub over the years and hope to see it continue with the C100/300 and eventually the C500. I do believe that if DL does move forward with BBD a condition of the order would be that BBD move forward with a 500 series. For DL it would only make sense to push BBD to expand the range of the CSeries. Of course as stated earlier this would leave room for the existing newer 739's now in the fleet as the bridge between the CSeries and the A321's. So, in ten years time we could see a DL fleet configured as such: C100/300/500, 739 & A321.

To my way of thinking this could be a real wake up call to Boeing that the time to move on the NSA is NOW. To incorporate a true 757 replacement with the 737 series and offer a true replacement to cover 130 to 250 seat range in a single aisle framework.
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jetlanta
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:22 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 1):
I see a potential split order between the C-Series and 738. With many 739ERs still to come and Boeing hungry to fill up the NG slots, I could see a very good 738 deal being floated DL's way. The 738s could fill in some of the MD-88 replacement where a slight upgrade in capacity is desired. The CS300 could fill in as a lower end MD-88 replacement for routes that require a bit less capacity. And then of course the CS100 would cover the capacity gap just below the CS300. I can't really see any Airbus planes in this order unless they decide to pick up more A321s to cover 757s leaving the fleet in the not too distant future.

Ed Bastian already told employees to expect another A321 order as part of this narrowbody replacement program. The rest of your premise is spot on. Delta has plenty of M90/320/738 in the 150-160 seat range. They need to diversify the fleet with more smaller units. The basic idea is:

110-130: 717/319/New Aircraft
150-160: M90/320/738
180-199: 739/321/757

I gotta say, personally, I love the fleet diversity.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 2):
I do believe that if DL does move forward with BBD a condition of the order would be that BBD move forward with a 500 series. For DL it would only make sense to push BBD to expand the range of the CSeries.

The problem with that is enforceability: DL can't will - at little cost to itself - BBD to be a viable business over the long term. If it were easy the national and provincial governments would have done it already.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 3):
Delta has plenty of M90/320/738 in the 150-160 seat range. They need to diversify the fleet with more smaller units. The basic idea is:

110-130: 717/319/New Aircraft
150-160: M90/320/738
180-199: 739/321/757

Somehow I think the combination of pilot wage $ per passenger seat and gate productivity pushes to something more than 130 seats. I'm not saying that the 717s and 319s don't have a place - clearly they do - but DL has been pushing upgauging over increased capacity via flight frequency. That makes sense when so many hubs are gate constrained as are LAX, SEA, JFK and LGA presently.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:57 pm

Why has DL favored the 738 over the 320?
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:15 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 5):

Why has DL favored the 738 over the 320?

Delta uses 73 737-800 and 69 A320 how is that favoring the 737-800?
Regarding the A321 and 737-900ER. There are still 46 unfilled A321 and 63 unfilled 737-900ER orders, that would bring the numbers to 47 A321 and 120 737-900ER.
So one can rather say Delta favors the 737-900ER having ordered nearly a quarter of all 737-900ER.

[Edited 2016-04-09 14:22:01]
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:49 pm

My fingers are crossed for the C-Series. Since this deal is specifically related to the RFP for an MD-88 replacement, the C-Series seems to fit perfectly. The GTF will be an insurance policy against a fuel price spike, which is especially important as Delta will also be operating the less fuel efficient MD-90 and 717 fleets long into the future.

My major question is if BBD can/will offer to get DL out of the E-190 deal - which would at least in theory become redundant if the CS100 comes into the fleet. The pilot bids for the SEA 190 base have not been awarded yet as far as I know, and I wonder how likely it is that the 190 deal could fall through if BBD was willing to cough up some cash to cover the cost of the cancellation. The bottom line is that for training costs it would be inefficient to have C-Series, 190, and 717 fleets at the same time.

I cannot wait to see what happens.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:35 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 5):
Why has DL favored the 738 over the 320?
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 6):

Delta uses 73 737-800 and 69 A320 how is that favoring the 737-800?

And just how many of those A320s did Delta purchase vs take in the NW merger?
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:48 pm

Hey guys,
With no claims of inside information or anything, I hope that Delta go down the CSeries/737-800&-900/A321 path... with a longer term aim of replacing most of these with Boeing's new narrowbody, whatever form it may take!
Cheers,
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:41 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 8):

Great point. All are PM NW. PM DL was an all Boeing airline
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:10 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 4):
Somehow I think the combination of pilot wage $ per passenger seat and gate productivity pushes to something more than 130 seats. I'm not saying that the 717s and 319s don't have a place - clearly they do - but DL has been pushing upgauging over increased capacity via flight frequency. That makes sense when so many hubs are gate constrained as are LAX, SEA, JFK and LGA presently.

You gotta realize that the 110-130 seat range is actually an upgrade from the 50-76 seat range. This small mainline aircraft size is actually ideally suited for Delta's network. Delta flies a lot of 76 seat aircraft in all the airports you mention. 110-130 seats is an upgrade. Add in the other hubs and the small markets that they serve with high frequency...and you have a huge requirement for small mainline jets.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:16 am

If DL replaces a lot of 50-76 seat aircraft with 110-130 seat planes, will there be adequate gate space in airports like ATL, MSP, DTW and JFK?
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:15 am

I wonder if Boeing will give Delta a deal on the Boeing 737 - 700 like they did United. If i recall on this forum $22 million per jet is a great deal. Install the most fuel efficient CFM56 engines. Sweet deal.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:34 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 12):
If DL replaces a lot of 50-76 seat aircraft with 110-130 seat planes, will there be adequate gate space in airports like ATL, MSP, DTW and JFK?

The first three, I don't really see a problem. Most gates in ATL that accomodate 76 seat RJs are also capable of accomodating mainline aircraft. Witness that concourse C, which was once all DCI is now largely 717 gates. Moreover, the city of Atlanta is aware of the increasing number of passengers expected to travel through ATL in the years ahead and has factored that into the master plan.

MSP, again, at least my impressions of the place having recently flown through there is that they're not using all of their gates as is and would definitely have room for more flights.

DTW should also have room for more. (1) they're not operating as many flights now as they were in the peak of the NW hub, and (2) concourse B (which is usually DCI) has historically been capable of handling mainline aircraft. IIRC back in the early days of the new WorldGateway, CO used the B gates for its 737 flights to IAH and EWR, while the ERJs to CLE were down in the pit with all the 9E CRJs and XJ Saabs.

The only open question here is JFK, and that is a good question what with JFK being a prime target for upgrading 76 seaters to mainline. I would think that if the new small mainline aircraft replace the CR9s and E70s/E75s at JFK, they should still have room to operate them. Also some of these new small mainline aircraft will operate out of DL's (by then) refurbished and expanded LGA operation, as well, taking more pressure off of JFK.
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:35 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 8):
And just how many of those A320s did Delta purchase vs take in the NW merger?

And what does that really matter? The 737-800 are also not really brand new and the decision to buy them was way back.
It has been known for an airline coming out of a merger to standardise on one type and sell of the other fleet bit by bit, but Delta has been using those A320 the last 8 years.
The A330 fleet was from NW while Delta was using 777-200 and that does not seem to influence buying decisions now.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:31 am

Quoting UsAir737 (Reply 10):
PM DL was an all Boeing airline

Only if you consider the MD-88s and MD-90s lineage as Boeing because they bought McDonnel Douglas.
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:08 am

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 5):
Why has DL favored the 738 over the 320?

Unit price?

Quoting dc10lover (Reply 13):
I wonder if Boeing will give Delta a deal on the Boeing 737 - 700 like they did United. If i recall on this forum $22 million per jet is a great deal. Install the most fuel efficient CFM56 engines. Sweet deal.

Not for airframer!
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:42 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 8):

And just how many of those A320s did Delta purchase vs take in the NW merger?


Delta didn't order any 737-800s after the NW merger either, so it's not a fair comparison. Since then, Delta has ordered plenty of Airbus AND Boeing aircraft, so it's clear they order whatever best suits their needs.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 14):
MSP, again, at least my impressions of the place having recently flown through there is that they're not using all of their gates as is and would definitely have room for more flights.

It shouldn't be an issue to add more smaller mainline aircraft to MSP. A lot (all?) of those gates on Concourse C that have been handling DCI flights in recent years used to park mainline aircraft back in the day.
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:46 pm

Delta is following the "most suitable aircraft for each type of mission" strategy.. they're not about fleet commonality as much as some other airlines. With their very good maintenance and support facilities they are able to operate a wide range of types without much downside to it, just harvesting the upsides. So we really shouldn't rule out anything when it comes to their new order.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:25 pm

Any idea as to when DL would make a decision on what a/c they will order? It would be great if they ordered the C-Series a/c, I have been a fan of the plane for a while and I got the opportunity to see it in person at Wichita last summer. It's a great looking a/c very quite too.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 20):
t's a great looking a/c very quite too.

I am sure you realize that an airline looking at buying a particular aircraft would probably place zero importanece on how nice the aircraft looked
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:50 pm

I think Boeing has NG slots that they need to fill, and will price as aggressively as they did for UA. Richard
Anderson has proved that he likes a deal, and I think they will work something out. I do not know which models, but I foresee a substantial order. If they need something with more capacity than the 739ER they may get more A321's, but I think Boeing will get the lion's share, just because they are the hungriest. I do not think Bombardier can afford to sell at a huge loss, while Boeing has long paid for all of the NG's development costs and only has to cover production costs. And they may be willing to sell below cost to keep the line moving.
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 22):
I think Boeing has NG slots that they need to fill, and will price as aggressively as they did for UA.

I am of the opinion that Boeing's deal to UA was to keep Bombardier out, not because they're desperate to move 737NGs.

Boeing has been increasing 737 production for a reason - the demand is there. And with Airbus said to be overbooked, if Boeing does have available slots, they're going to be even more in demand because Airbus doesn't have them. So if anything, Boeing should see Average Sales Prices increase due to the Law of Supply and Demand.

The above being said, I expect Boeing is being aggressive in their RFP. And if Airbus is involved, they're going to be aggressive as well because they don't want to see Bombardier establish a firm beachhead at Delta anymore than Boeing does as Delta is a major customer of their's, as well.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:00 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 11):
You gotta realize that the 110-130 seat range is actually an upgrade from the 50-76 seat range. This small mainline aircraft size is actually ideally suited for Delta's network. Delta flies a lot of 76 seat aircraft in all the airports you mention. 110-130 seats is an upgrade.

DL may want more A319s, but it wouldn't be buying 319s to replace much flying done by MD-88s today.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:41 pm

Quoting chiad (Reply 17):
Apparently there are more airlines than Ryan Air that can claim they raped Boeing.

Not if it was consensual.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
I am sure you realize that an airline looking at buying a particular aircraft would probably place zero importanece on how nice the aircraft looked

Difficult much?

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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:56 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 22):
I think Boeing has NG slots that they need to fill, and will price as aggressively as they did for UA.

While you are correct the same can be said for BBD as there is a very real possibility of many empty slots for the CSeries if Republic backs out of their order commitments for 40 frames due to the bankruptcy. The main difference being though that Boeing has no real development cost to cover like BBD so once again the advantage goes to Boeing. However, at some point Dewar and the BBD board will have to bite their lip and offer a very attractive deal to a marquee airline such as DL just to get the line moving and get other airlines on board. Once they do that the CSeries should take off especially given the fact that A & B's slots are basically full. Eventually, it may just boil down to the fact that BBD could deliver quicker due to the backlog.

If and only if BBD can get DL on board that would give the CSeries both DL, LX (and by extension LH) and AC as credible customers and that would hopefully be able to kick off a wave of orders for the CSeries from larger more more marquee airlines.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 24):
DL may want more A319s, but it wouldn't be buying 319s to replace much flying done by MD-88s today.

Why would they want more of the same when the CSeries offers superior efficiencies and range? Unless your talking about the A319neo? Even then, I believe the A319neo is still heavier but may have more cargo space, not really sure. I know the A319neo would have slightly better range than the C300 but not sure what the CASM would be between the two, perhaps someone else could shed some light on that?

Hopefully, we will see a DL/CSeries order soon as the CSeries is a beautiful aircraft and I would love to see it in DL colors. Also, I personally like the 3/2 seating and am hopeful that the MD88/90 replacement will be the CSeries in order to continue the 3/2 seating. A BBD win could also mark the beginning of the end for the Dupoly of A & B which is always good for the consumer and for competition.

I would hope that if BBD were to win this order that Boeing would seriously move forward with NSA (797) that would include the 737 but also perhaps the lower end of the 757 as well. Given that the 787 is now in full production mode and that the 747-8 is out of engineering and the 777x is now nearing production that they could reallocate engineering resources to start the NSA project instead of continuing the 737 revamping AGAIN. Surely a BBD win would be a wakeup call?
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:00 pm

I do think that if DL chooses BBD, there is a good chance that the deal permanently shifts the market that has been duopolized by A&B in recent years, which is probably why Boeing was so aggressive with UA.

From what I have read, the narrow bodies provide the volume and therefore the steady, predictable consistency for revenue and revenue planning, compared to the wide bodies, which are lower volume and higher margin planes. Letting another entrant into the narrow body market will shift the market dynamics for a long time to come, if BBD is viable and sticks around. Good for competition.

I have a question for folks who know much more about airplane manufacturing history than me - are there other examples of new entrants coming into the market that I can go read about since Airbus became a major player to Boeing? Most of what I've read about has been exits / consolidation (Lockheed, McD/D), or about less successful attempts on a mass market basis (Russian, Chinese attempts etc...).

I am going to read about the Embraer history and impact on the Regional Jet market, as the 175/190's have been quite successful.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions for reading.
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:02 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
am sure you realize that an airline looking at buying a particular aircraft would probably place zero importanece on how nice the aircraft looked

Here's my question however. How many years of service can you get out of C-Series. Airlines are used to getting decades out of their mainline aircraft. Might Boeing make the argument that their aircraft last longer. Just a thought.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:33 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 28):
Here's my question however. How many years of service can you get out of C-Series. Airlines are used to getting decades out of their mainline aircraft. Might Boeing make the argument that their aircraft last longer. Just a thought.

I don't think you're going to see 737NGs delivered in the mid-late 2010s operated much past 15 years. It would seem that due to lower operating costs, any C-Series plane would likely be operated for much longer than a 737NG.
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:56 pm

I think DL may be leaning towards Boeing for one reason: the hope they could cut a deal for a large number of 73G's at a very attractive price like UA did for their new planes. And DL will use the 73G's to purge their fleet of aging MD-80 Series planes.
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:17 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 28):
Might Boeing make the argument that their aircraft last longer. Just a thought.

Boeing might! Will the CSeries be rated to 75k cycles like the 737??
 
klkla
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:31 am

I don't think Delta is leaning in any particular direction. They're playing all four manufacturers against each other to get the best deal.

It will be very interesting to see the final outcome.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:19 am

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 14):
(2) concourse B (which is usually DCI) has historically been capable of handling mainline aircraft. IIRC back in the early days of the new WorldGateway, CO used the B gates for its 737 flights to IAH and EWR, while the ERJs to CLE were down in the pit with all the 9E CRJs and XJ Saabs.

Didn't DL operate from the end of B for a period?
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:48 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 32):
I don't think Delta is leaning in any particular direction. They're playing all four manufacturers against each other to get the best deal.

While Embraer might be invited to the table (in order to help drive the price down seemingly) it would surprise the hell out of me if it were to be seriously considered and slap your momma floored if they actually went E190/5 as their low end mainline aircraft. This is one of the few times in the last 30 years where an airline had more than two manufacturers to choose from it seems. Last time was when McDonnell Douglas was still around with the MD-95 versus the Airbus A318/9 and the Boeing 736/7.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 28):
Here's my question however. How many years of service can you get out of C-Series. Airlines are used to getting decades out of their mainline aircraft. Might Boeing make the argument that their aircraft last longer.

I am sure they will make the argument along with the fact that the 737 has been around much longer and has proven itself reliable, efficient and safe but since DL already owns many of them it seems that they would already know this along with knowing approximately how long they will use the aircraft. However, just because it is older and proven does not always mean that it is better. Delta will make this decision as they have made most all other fleet decisions and that is on how good a deal they can get and which aircraft is best for them!

One of the other things to keep in mind is that Delta could be stepping into the CSeries for more than one reason. In particular, it could be a great revenue stream for DL if they incorporate the maintenance into their Delta TechOps division. One could be looking at a great revenue stream for maintaining the CSeries for other airlines down the road in addition to their own. I could potentially see a partnership blossom between DL TechOps and PW for the PurePower Engines as well as the BBD CSeries frames. They could be acting on this in addition to getting a good deal on a new line of aircraft. Just a thought!
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deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 34):
One of the other things to keep in mind is that Delta could be stepping into the CSeries for more than one reason. In particular, it could be a great revenue stream for DL if they incorporate the maintenance into their Delta TechOps division. One could be looking at a great revenue stream for maintaining the CSeries for other airlines down the road in addition to their own. I could potentially see a partnership blossom between DL TechOps and PW for the PurePower Engines as well as the BBD CSeries frames. They could be acting on this in addition to getting a good deal on a new line of aircraft. Just a thought!
DL isn't going to be doing any heavy Cseries airframe work. Just like the rest of the fleet that work will go to the lowest bidder.

The GTF also powered the E2 so chances are DL is going to have the opportunity to offer the engine (assuming DL wants to work with Pratt. Pratt has a hard time keeping its crap together. Matter of fact I think DL just sued them (again) of PW4000-94 issues)

Its pretty safe to assume the GTF will be a big part of this order, be it C100/C300s, E2s, 320NEOs......

Quoting Prost (Reply 12):
If DL replaces a lot of 50-76 seat aircraft with 110-130 seat planes, will there be adequate gate space in airports like ATL, MSP, DTW and JFK?
DL doesn't want to replace any 76 seaters.

Last pilot TA they asked for 25 more.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 34):
While Embraer might be invited to the table (in order to help drive the price down seemingly) it would surprise the hell out of me if it were to be seriously considered and slap your momma floored if they actually went E190/5 as their low end mainline aircraft.

EMB is still very much in this.

Quoting klkla (Reply 32):
I don't think Delta is leaning in any particular direction. They're playing all four manufacturers against each other to get the best deal.

exactly.

[Edited 2016-04-10 19:09:39]
 
UsAir737
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:46 am

I think this is Boeing's order to lose. They have the slots and we all know DL loves a bargain. No cost of introducing a new type. ( not that commonality matters to DL)
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:48 am

Truthfully, the most economical airplane for Delta's route network is likely the E2-195. With the recent enhancements announced, it'll have the range to do about every practical flight from ATL, MSP, DTW, and SLC.

It would be a massive win for EMB if so. It'll be harder for Boeing and Airbus to compete with early slots with future gen engines NEO or LEAP. Of course C-Series has thus advantage too but it's also a much more risky program to invest in them EMB.

I see no advantage in Delta ordering current generation airplanes. They can easily fly the MD's until NEO's or LEAPs are delivered, which will have much better longer economics. Remember United's order was for rapid fleet expansion and they couldn't wait. Delta already has acceptable fleet and can wait a couple years to get the right engines / plane long term.

Perhaps it'll be a split order between E2's and 737-8/A320neo?

[Edited 2016-04-10 19:52:04]
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:59 am

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 37):

Truthfully, the most economical airplane for Delta's route network is likely the E2-195. With the recent enhancements announced, it'll have the range to do about every practical flight from ATL, MSP, DTW, and SLC.

Cseries stills eats the E-2s lunch when it comes to range. The cseries can perform the majority of the routes operated by DL 737s and 320s without a sweat.
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:11 am

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 38):


Truthfully, the most economical airplane for Delta's route network is likely the E2-195. With the recent enhancements announced, it'll have the range to do about every practical flight from ATL, MSP, DTW, and SLC.

Cseries stills eats the E-2s lunch when it comes to range. The cseries can perform the majority of the routes operated by DL 737s and 320s without a sweat.

Delta doesn't need range ... That's the point. The MD-88 has comparable range to the E2 and most the MD-88's aren't range stretched anyway. Frame weight is important on these short hauls and carrying excess ability adds little.
 
YXwatcherMKE
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:25 am

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 21):
I am sure you realize that an airline looking at buying a particular aircraft would probably place zero importance on how nice the aircraft looked

I realize that any airline is not going to chose an a/c based on the looks of the plane. However, from everything I have seen and read about the C-Series this is one incredible a/c that is high tech and built for the future. I guess that was I was saying but I failed to explain it fully.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
flyabr
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:30 am

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 37):
Perhaps it'll be a split order between E2's and 737-8/A320neo?

I'll be absolutely shocked if this order includes any NEO or MAX aircraft. I think slots for those aircraft are pretty much locked up for sometime. I'm sticking to my CS100/CS300/738 prediction.  
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:17 am

Quoting flyabr (Reply 41):
I'm sticking to my CS100/CS300/738 prediction.  

I'm going with C-Series/A321. Mainly because those are the only airplanes literally discussed publicly by Ed Bastian. I feel like his comments are likely a better guide than random speculation.  
 
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hilram
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:44 am

Quoting flyabr (Reply 41):
I'll be absolutely shocked if this order includes any NEO or MAX aircraft. I think slots for those aircraft are pretty much locked up for sometime. I'm sticking to my CS100/CS300/738 prediction

Boeing and Airbus can comfortably double book a certain percentage of their slots, knowing that some will for sure be cancelled or deferred. Airlines do the same all the time, sell more tickets for the flight than there are seats, because there are "always" last minute cancellations.
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:22 am

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 39):
Delta doesn't need range ... That's the point. The MD-88 has comparable range to the E2 and most the MD-88's aren't range stretched anyway. Frame weight is important on these short hauls and carrying excess ability adds little.

Which may true.. it would allow DL to build a more felixable narrowbody fleet

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 42):
I'm going with C-Series/A321. Mainly because those are the only airplanes literally discussed publicly by Ed Bastian. I feel like his comments are likely a better guide than random speculation.

This is where I would put my money.
 
Amiga500
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:47 am

Quoting flyabr (Reply 31):
Will the CSeries be rated to 75k cycles like the 737??

Design Service Goal is 60k cycles.

But that will go up, probably quite dramatically, as the aircraft matures.


The CSeries is the only narrowbody to be designed from the start with damage tolerance analyses built in (relative to A320/B737), so there can be no claim of the airframe not lasting.
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:11 pm

Neither DL or any aircraft builder or news organization has confirmed How about we wait till it is announced
 
UsAir737
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:26 pm

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 39):
Delta doesn't need range ... That's the point. The MD-88 has comparable range to the E2 and most the MD-88's aren't range stretched anyway. Frame weight is important on these short hauls and carrying excess ability adds little.

These a/c won't be a direct replacement for the 88. DL puts the least efficient a/c on the shortest routes. So that means these a/c will replace older 320's and M90's and those a/c will take over the current 88 routes. My bet is on 738/ max and CS300 split.
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
flyabr
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:46 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 42):
I'm going with C-Series/A321. Mainly because those are the only airplanes literally discussed publicly by Ed Bastian. I feel like his comments are likely a better guide than random speculation.

For some reason I figured further A321 orders would be announced separately from an RFP to replace the MD88. Will be interesting to see what happens. It's just too bad the interwebs has screwed with our patience level if you catch my drift!  

[Edited 2016-04-11 11:47:06]
 
flyabr
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 2

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:43 pm

Then there's that lagging 787 order for 18 units. Could this be the order where those funds are used to purchase more 737s?

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