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B2468
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Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:09 pm

Aloha everyone!

I've been mulling this question for a few years, and I've debated the wisdom of posting it on this forum, which is frequented by numerous industry insiders, but I think this happened long enough ago that no one will get in trouble; I won't supply any details about the airline, origin/destination, though.

About 4 years ago, I was on a long haul flight to the USA, and when we were on approach to the destination, I suddenly began vomiting   . A flight attendant escorted me to the lavatory, where I continued to barf my brains out.

While in the lavatory, the aircraft landed and taxiied to the gate.

Once at the gate, the flight attendant saw me and said "Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot you were in here". The F/A was very nice, and I was very grateful to her that our landing was not delayed due to my bout of emesis, and she did help me get cleaned up (puking while landing tends to be kinda messy).

Was this a serious breach of regulations?
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:20 pm

Technicality an airliner lav is not a seat and not designed to accommodate a passenger for crash conditions which is why it only has supplemental oxygen for use inflight. However, I am sure you were not the first one to have needed to use it during landing. Bodily functions sometimes trump rules since they cannot always be controlled. It would be the same as a serious illness or using an AED in the aisle way where the pax is laying down. The FAs are not going to require that pax be belted in the middle of such an occurrence. It would be considered a violation, but I think overlooked in light of the situation.
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Viscount724
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:39 pm

Have seen quite a few occurrence reports in the Transport Canada daily reports where flights have overshot on final approach due to a passenger not being seated. A few examples within the past 2 years; the first one was last month.

A Jazz DHC-8-402 (JZA8234), from Yellowknife, NT (CYZF) to Calgary, AB (CYYC), overshot Runway 17R from 1NM on final due to a passenger standing up. No operational impact.

A Sunwing Airlines Boeing 737 700 (SWG801) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Vancouver, BC (CYVR) executed a missed approach due to a passenger in lavatory. Aircraft landed at 1145Z. No operational impact.

A Jazz DHC-8-402 (C-GGNZ / JZA8944) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Moncton, NB (CYQM), on arrival, overshot the runway due to passenger not seated in cabin.

A Jazz DHC-8-301 (JZA8077) from Vancouver, BC (CYVR) to Victoria, BC (CYYJ) initiated a missed approach for Runway 14 due to an unseated passenger. The aircraft circled for Runway 09 was and landed safely. No operational impact.

An Air Canada Rouge Airbus A319 (C-FYJE/ ROU1889) from Anchorage, AK (PANC) to Vancouver, BC (CYVR) was 2 miles final for Runway 08L and advised Tower that he was unable to land due to a passenger standing. ROU1889 was issued the published missed approach. Aircraft returned to land without further incident. No operational impact.

A Republic Airlines DHC 8 401 (RPA3892) from Washington, DC (KIAD) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) initiated a missed approach to runway 24R due to passenger standing in aisle. RPA3892 landed runway 24R at 2310Z without incident.

An Endeavor Air Bombardier CRJ-200 (FLG3734) from Minneapolis/ St Paul, MN (KMSP) to Winnipeg, MB (CYWG) informed Tower they were going around due to a standing passenger. Aircraft landed safely at 0414Z. No other impact to operations.

An Air Wisconsin Bombardier CRJ-200 (AWI3790), from Philadelphia, PA (KPHL) to Montréal, QC (CYUL), initiated a pull up from Runway 24R due to a standing passenger. No impact on operations.




Also some involving aircraft unable to take off due to passengers not seated. Three examples of those:

A WestJet Boeing 737 700 (WJA550) from Calgary, AB (CYYC) to Winnipeg, MB (CYWG) aborted takeoff Runway 17L after accelerating to 15 knots due to a passenger standing up in the cabin. WJA550 taxied off the runway and back to the threshold for departure again. Departed at 2026Z. No impact on operations.

A Novajet Embraer EMB 500 (NOJ50) from Madison, WI (KMSN) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) was instructed to overshoot Runway 23 due to a British Airways Boeing 777 300 (BAW98) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to London/ Heathrow, UK (EGLL) unable to depart Runway 23 due to a passenger not seated. No operational impact.

An Air Canada Rouge Airbus A319 (C-GSJB / ROU1817) from Nassau, Bahamas (MYNN) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) was instructed to initiate a missed approach to Runway 24R due to a Sky Regional Airlines Embraer ERJ 175 (C-FEKI / SKV7360) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Washington, DC (KDCA) in position to depart when a passenger stood up and prevented the takeoff. ROU1817 landed at 0123Z.
 
nws2002
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:58 am

Generally the FA should not have reported that the cabin was secure for landing to the flight deck. In practice I've had people make a dash for the lav at the last second. I will say "the seatbelt sign is on, please return to your seat" but that's it. I've informed them of the requirement and at that point I assume they must really need the lav.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:08 am

I guide the aviation tours of North Korea, and on one trip, on a Tu-134B flight, a passenger was so keen on experiencing the sound of the engines (as he later put it) that he hid in the rear cargo hold which is located between the two engines (and accessible from the rear passenger cabin) for the entire flight. Lucky for him, we ended up doing a full power go-around at Pyongyang (the turn from base leg to final was a bit too tight and the pilot chucked it away and tried again). On the other side of the coin, if we'd been in a crash where everyone was able to get out, being unsecured in the hold which is full of sharp edges and even a system of wires to open a cargo door, his chance of survivability would have been 0%. Air Koryo have an almost unblemished record so it was a pretty safe bet I guess. I was a bit annoyed as that kind of thing is unhelpful but you have to admire the guy's dedication to the lovely Tu-134 rocketship.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
spacecadet
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:14 am

On all the flights I can remember, the f/a's have physically opened the lav doors and checked for occupancy before sitting down and reporting the cabin secure to the flight deck. I'm not always watching for this and I probably don't remember every flight I've ever taken, but the ones where I was paying attention, I've seen this happen. So I think it's standard procedure, at least on the airlines I fly on.

I have a hard time believing an f/a would "forget" a passenger in a lav, although she may have said that either as a joke or as kind of a half-hearted cover in case anyone else saw you come out.
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B2468
Topic Author
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:54 pm

RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:06 am

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 3):
Generally the FA should not have reported that the cabin was secure for landing to the flight deck. In practice I've had people make a dash for the lav at the last second. I will say "the seatbelt sign is on, please return to your seat" but that's it. I've informed them of the requirement and at that point I assume they must really need the lav.
Quoting spacecadet (Reply 5):
On all the flights I can remember, the f/a's have physically opened the lav doors and checked for occupancy before sitting down and reporting the cabin secure to the flight deck.

The only thing I can think of is that the F/As had already reported "cabin secure" to the flight deck...I honestly don't remember how close to landing we were when the F/A escorted me to the lav (I wouldn't know anyway), but were definitely flying some approach pattern at a "lower" altitude.

I definitely needed to use the lav, so maybe that is what she thought!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
A Jazz DHC-8-402 (C-GGNZ / JZA8944) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Moncton, NB (CYQM), on arrival, overshot the runway due to passenger not seated in cabin.

What does "overshot the runway" mean here? Did the aircraft leave the runway? How serious is this?

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
I guide the aviation tours of North Korea, and on one trip, on a Tu-134B flight, a passenger was so keen on experiencing the sound of the engines (as he later put it) that he hid in the rear cargo hold which is located between the two engines (and accessible from the rear passenger cabin) for the entire flight.

Oh, if only that had been me! I've been to North Korea once, but not on an aircraft, unfortunately.

Thanks for the replies! So, would it be accurate for me to say this was "against regulations", but _not usually_ a very serious matter?
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bucky707
Posts: 955
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:11 am

When I was a pilot in the Air Force, I was on a training flight one time with multiple pilots. I had some.....issues.....that day, and sat in the lav through two or three touch and goes.

Are you supposed to be in the lab for landing, no. Is it unsafe......not really.
 
nikeherc
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:28 am

It's not a lavatory story, but many, many years ago, a friend and I were on a Delta DC-8 coming in to ATL from MCO. We were in F on a breakfast flight. In the row in front of us were two young boys, who had devoured the entire first class breakfast. We were on final when both boys hurled. The FA ran down the aisle with napkins and paper towels to begin the cleanup. Since the two boys were not yet full under control and we were over the outer marker, the FA couln't make it back to the jump seat in time, so she sat in the aisle. My friend was on the aisle, so he wrapped his arms around the FA and I braced him. The captain was unaware of the situation, so he made a normal full brakes landing. Nonetheless, we were able to keep her from sliding through the barf to the front of the plane.

Imagine our surprise when we made our connecting flight in the nick of time and fount the two boys and their mother already on the plane. They had been given special transport across the ramp. Our seats were in the lounge section of a DC-7 facing the boys in the tail section of the plane.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:35 am

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 3):

Generally the FA should not have reported that the cabin was secure for landing to the flight deck. In practice I've had people make a dash for the lav at the last second. I will say "the seatbelt sign is on, please return to your seat" but that's it. I've informed them of the requirement and at that point I assume they must really need the lav.

When you have to go you have to go...but you never really NEED the lav. Sometimes it's better to go to the lav and sometimes -- like during approach and landing -- it's better to use an alternative.
 
robsaw
Posts: 445
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:02 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):
When you have to go you have to go...but you never really NEED the lav. Sometimes it's better to go to the lav and sometimes -- like during approach and landing -- it's better to use an alternative.

Really??? If that's what you think then I'd say the better alternative in many cases will be a missed approach or aborted takeoff.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:04 am

Quoting B2468 (Reply 6):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
A Jazz DHC-8-402 (C-GGNZ / JZA8944) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Moncton, NB (CYQM), on arrival, overshot the runway due to passenger not seated in cabin.

What does "overshot the runway" mean here? Did the aircraft leave the runway? How serious is this?

It means they went around and made another approach. Often used as a synonym for missed approach.
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 am

RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:15 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
a passenger was so keen on experiencing the sound of the engines (as he later put it) that he hid in the rear cargo hold which is located between the two engines (and accessible from the rear passenger cabin) for the entire flight.

haha what a story! thanks for posting.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:25 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):
When you have to go you have to go...but you never really NEED the lav. Sometimes it's better to go to the lav and sometimes -- like during approach and landing -- it's better to use an alternative.

You seem to regularly make comments like this. I'm wondering, between that and your username you may have a....thing?

No need to share with the group.
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Skydrol
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:06 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 13):
Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):When you have to go you have to go...but you never really NEED the lav. Sometimes it's better to go to the lav and sometimes -- like during approach and landing -- it's better to use an alternative.

You seem to regularly make comments like this. I'm wondering, between that and your username you may have a....thing?

I was recently on a flight where row 37 H - K just reeked of stale urine, noticed right after boarding. Someone on a previous flight must have totally soaked the carpet. If it wasn't for the flight being 100% full, I would have moved. It was terrible, even with the overhead vent fully open.

The first thing that came to mind was several posts from IPFreely.




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opticalilyushin
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:31 am

On a lighter note I know a member of cabin crew who was bending over to reach into the food/galleycart, and whilst her bum was pointing towards some passengers she unfortunately broke wind..She was so embarrassed that she locked herself in the toilet, and refused to come out until landing.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Being In Lavatory On Landing?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:09 pm

On three seperate occations I have had a passenger sitting on the potty during landing because they had the runs - it was better they were in there than soiling the seat. I told them to hold on to the handrails and the pilots agreed they should be in there. Everyone happy and safe.
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