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LatAmFlyer
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What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:18 am

I can't figure out why PER has so many international airlines. It's not on the way to anywhere, I can't imagine it being much of a destination (yet), and the last time I was there it seemed to be a decidedly local town with a cowboy feel. The place does have mining, petroleum, and agricultural export industries, but is that enough to sustain all those carriers?

Its neighbor, Fremantle, seems also to be a lively city with a sparkling boating life. But how does it justify its mother city hosting all these airlines? No doubt I am missing something, but for the life of me can't imagine what it is.

The list below could be slightly outdated.
-Singapore Airlines
-Malaysia
-Thai
-Emirates
-Air Asia
-Air Mauritius
-Scoot
-Jetstar
-Air New Zealand
-Cathay Pacific
-China Southern
-Etihad
-Garuda Indonesia
-Qantas
-Qatar
 
Viscount724
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:29 am

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
I can't figure out why PER has so many international airlines.

A city with a population of more than 2 million in such an isolated location generates a lot of traffic by local residents. Like the rest of Australia, they have to fly to go almost everywhere, and many originate from other countries so there's plenty of VFR traffic.
 
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eta unknown
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:31 am

To answer your question... "The place does have mining, petroleum, and agricultural export industries, but is that enough to sustain all those carriers?"... in most cases... yes.

The population of Western Australia is over 2.5 million and PER is the gateway. The only other international airport is Port Hedland, but that only serves infrequent Bali flights.

To sum up your list, there is enough demand to satisfy all the airlines with some notes:
EK/EY/QR... the traditional ME3 pissing match wherever you go
China Southern... this is the only route that is being subsidised by the WA Govt. (they want a direct China link)
You forgot South African... large VFR community in PER. Air Mauritius gets some of this traffic.

Asia-PER flights are much shorter than SYD/MEL/BNE flights so a lot cheaper to operate.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:42 am

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
-Jetstar
Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
-Air New Zealand
Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
-Qantas

Interesting that airlines from Australia and New Zealand would serve an Australian city.

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
petroleum,

IAH says hello.
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jrfspa320
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:51 am

Also PER is one of only 4 major international gateways into the country. PER has a reasonable amount of transfer traffic from other states, particularly SA and NT, travelling to South Africa and on the ME3
 
WearyDrover
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:10 am

In recent years Perth has seen international traffic increase partly as a result of relatively high incomes on the back of a resources boom. Despite a recent contraction in the resources sector, international traffic has grown. The population has grown through attracting migrants from a wider range of countries and there has been an increase in tourism.

For many Western Australian residents, Asia provides a more desirable holiday destination due to it being cheaper than flying interstate and for those of Asian origin it is natural that they would visit relatives or continue doing business overseas.

Western Australia also exports a fair amount of food which commands good prices overseas, even allowing for air freight. Sea foods and vegetables can be carried as belly cargo on some flights making those flights a more attractive proposition than passenger flights alone.

Other airlines that can be added to your list of airlines offering international seats:
Malindo
Tiger Air
Virgin
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rbavfan
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:48 am

Australians?
And people who like exploring exotic parks near Perth.
 
ben175
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:22 am

I'd argue and say we don't have enough international airlines. No direct links to anything in China north of Guangzhou, Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, anything in Indonesia other than CGK and DPS, only 1 link to mainland Africa... but that's me being a little biased.

I think in the next 5 years we will see flights to at least PVG or PEK, MNL and NRT/HND.

We're the most isolated major city in the entire world. We don't have much of a choice other than to fly!

[Edited 2016-04-10 20:23:10]
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:53 am



Nothing but a few dusty shacks. And the Western-most major city in Australia. For example, LHR-SYD is prohibitive even to the 77L, but LHR-PER would be quite doable.
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mariner
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:57 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
Interesting that airlines from Australia and New Zealand would serve an Australian city.

I'm missing your point.

Every major (over 1 million) Australian city is served by airlines from Australia and New Zealand.

mariner

[Edited 2016-04-10 21:02:59]
aeternum nauta
 
smi0006
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:09 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 7):
No direct links to anything in China north of Guangzhou, Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, anything in Indonesia other than CGK and DPS, only 1 link to mainland Africa... but that's me being a little biased.

I'm surprised we don't have a direct PVG--PER route with MU, and no PR route to MNL, maybe with the 321.

Other key element, is Australians like to travel. We value face to face contact and with much of the populations being migrants or second generation people like to go back to the homeland. And Australia is a long way from most places, a lot of tourists (especially EU, or Americans) do one trip 'down-under' and combine the entire country. It's too far for lots of little trips.

Can I ask the OP when the last time was that you were here? It's a rapidly changing city, I've lived here just under a year and despite the mining cool off- the money has been invested. In 5-10 years it will an amazing city. At the moment it's a little quiet and slow, but not the cowboy backwash you describe.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:13 am

There is also a fairly large number of commuters who work in the mineral industry in WA and live in S E Asia, particularly Bali.
Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
Every major (over 1 million) Australian city is served by airlines from Australia and New Zealand.

It's a sarcastic response to the OPs list of airlines that fly to Perth including QF, NZ, and JQ; for a thread asking why airlines fly to Perth.
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bjorn14
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:01 am

Besides PER -BNE/SYD/MEL are a big back track (almost 3 hours, nearly NY-LA) if you are going west.
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747m8te
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:10 am

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 5):
Other airlines that can be added to your list of airlines offering international seats:
Malindo
Tiger Air
Virgin

Hasn't Virgin Australia ceased all international ops out of PER since they pulled HKT and switch DPS to TT?
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:43 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 14):

Yes, however VARA still operate to Christmas and Cocos Islands with A320s which are considered international destinations.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 7):
I think in the next 5 years we will see flights to at least PVG or PEK

With CZ not seeing solid growth, its not much of a good case study for other Chinese carriers to look at and get excited about.

Lets see CZ grow further on their CAN route and then it could be an option.

Quoting ben175 (Reply 7):
MNL and NRT/HND.

More likely to occur.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Nothing but a few dusty shacks. And the Western-most major city in Australia. For example, LHR-SYD is prohibitive even to the 77L, but LHR-PER would be quite doable.

It may make sense from a distance perspective, but the business case would be very different than a SYD/MEL-LHR service.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:09 am

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
Its neighbor, Fremantle, seems also to be a lively city with a sparkling boating life. But how does it justify its mother city hosting all these airlines?

To ignore all of the other well made points....because PER is the airport for Fremantle?
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:13 am

Most people I know either love PER or SYD and I have to say having been to both PER is my preferred.

PER is clean and relaxing with great access to beaches, wine and other great areas of WA.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:41 am

PER is the only major airport in the Western half of Australia for many many miles. The mix of airlines and their frequencies that they operate there today shouldn't really come as a huge surprise. Once led by the mining boom, as someone mentioned above, a lot of that money has been invested and the growth of tourism also helps. Perth also has a significant South African population as well as the largest British population in an Australian city. The migrant effect definitely adds to that.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 16):
Quoting ben175 (Reply 7):
MNL and NRT/HND.

More likely to occur.

I can almost bet it won't be QF that goes in for that punch
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:43 am

Quoting Lofty (Reply 18):
PER is clean and relaxing with great access to beaches, wine and other great areas of WA.

Off topic but also fantastic infrastructure and public transport  
 
Toni_
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:33 am

Interesting question and answers. I never really wondered about Perth I have to admit.

Quoting Lofty (Reply 18):
Quoting 777LRF (Reply 20):

Alright, alright, I'm sold! Perth, here I come! 
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:48 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Besides PER -BNE/SYD/MEL are a big back track (almost 3 hours, nearly NY-LA) if you are going west.

Three hours is more like Omaha - New York but that doesn't have quite the verbal punch, does it,  
yeo
 
jrfspa320
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:55 am

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 22):

It's actually more like 4-5 hours going west
 
smi0006
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:00 pm

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 23):


It's actually more like 4-5 hours going west

Was going to say!! Which airline in 3hrs? Sign me up. Often can get up to 5.5 and occasionally rather rough too. As a regular PER-SYD guy the novelty of VA has certainly dropped off.
 
Layman
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:30 pm

Perth is the easternmost city of the Republic of South Africa. It is nominally governed by the Australian government. It is the only city in Australia with a second language.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:43 pm

^^ Ummm.. I think a visit to Melbourne or Sydney will tell you that there's 100's of languages and many that are likely more common than that one you point out in Perth  Smile

WA has a lot of potential as a tourist destination but Perth itself is one of the most disappointing tourism products currently. It offers very little on its own, but a trip down to Margaret River is certainly a good experience.

The beaches off WA are amazing but look out for those numerous fins in the water..

I do wonder how PER will perform over the next few years in terms of growth. It's main magnet has been the mining boom, which has brought in population and wealth but that is drying up. Those are hardly ideal conditions for strong growth but we will see how things pan out.



[Edited 2016-04-11 07:04:06]
 
aerokiwi
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:58 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 26):
I do wonder how PER will perform over the next few years in terms of growth. It's main magnet has been the mining boom, which has brought in population and wealth but that is drying up. Those are hardly ideal conditions for strong growth but we will see how things pan out.

Not to mention the high local prices that reflect the mining boom. Fine if you're a resident there earning local wages, but a serious turnoff for potential tourists.

Perth has some nice points - it's beaches for one. And the Margaret River area is lovely. But it's a distant and expensive place to go for things that are essentially available elsewhere.

So as a tourist destination, it's pretty weak. But as an O&D market, it's pretty strong for all the points mentioned earlier.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:03 pm

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
What The Heck Is In Perth?

greatest City on earth!   go visit someday, you´ll love it!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
trent1000
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:19 pm

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 4):
Also PER is one of only 4 major international gateways into the country.

Assuming you mean SYD, MEL, BNE, PER...

Is ADL not major as well? Besides extensive Aus domestic ops, regular flights by CX, NZ, EK, MH, QR and SQ indicates it is no regional outpost.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
-Jetstar
Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
-Air New Zealand
Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):
-Qantas

Interesting that airlines from Australia and New Zealand would serve an Australian city.

I'm still trying to work out if this thread is a late April fools joke!

Would be interesting to see on a map what routes are served from PER, both international and domestic
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:00 pm

Quoting trent1000 (Reply 29):
Is ADL not major as well? Besides extensive Aus domestic ops, regular flights by CX, NZ, EK, MH, QR and SQ indicates it is no regional outpost.

CX is 4wk, NZ is 6wk, EK is daily, MH is 4wk, QR hasn't started yet and SQ is daily. It certainly isn't a small regional outpost but it's tiny compared even with BNE/PER let alone SYD/MEL.

The "major gateways" thing comes from bilateral agreements. There is often a cap on frequencies into the four major ports with unlimited rights granted into secondary cities to encourage big airlines to serve them (ie CX and QR have maxed their rights into the major gateways but can add as much as they like into ADL, CBR, OOL, CNS, DRW etc).
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:47 pm

Also Australian universities like those in Perth are attractive to foreigners from Asia and the Middle East.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 7):
We're the most isolated major city in the entire world.

Actually, one can argue that Honolulu is.
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 33):
Actually, one can argue that Honolulu is.

One of the basic criteria for defining a "major" city is a population of more than one million people, which Honolulu falls well short of.
 
Freshside3
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting Layman (Reply 25):
Perth is the easternmost city of the Republic of South Africa. It is nominally governed by the Australian government. It is the only city in Australia with a second language.

They speak Afrikaans there??
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:01 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 35):
They speak Afrikaans there??

It's a reference to all the South Africans living in Perth.
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 36):
It's a reference to all the South Africans living in Perth.

Wow! Had no clue.....
 
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mariner
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting 777LRF (Reply 19):
PER is the only major airport in the Western half of Australia for many many miles. The mix of airlines and their frequencies that they operate there today shouldn't really come as a huge surprise. Once led by the mining boom, as someone mentioned above, a lot of that money has been invested and the growth of tourism also helps.

The mining boom may be over but mining is still a massive industry and the international gateway - to the Pilbara (mining) or even the Kimberleys (tourism) - is PER.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-0...ustralia-mining-investment/7215066

"Western Australia named as world's most attractive mining investment destination"

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 17):
To ignore all of the other well made points....because PER is the airport for Fremantle?

Love Fremantle.

Quoting Layman (Reply 25):
Perth is the easternmost city of the Republic of South Africa. It is nominally governed by the Australian government. It is the only city in Australia with a second language.

Best post.  

mariner

[Edited 2016-04-11 12:44:45]
aeternum nauta
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:55 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 34):
One of the basic criteria for defining a "major" city is a population of more than one million people, which Honolulu falls well short of.

Well, not to digress too much, but Honolulu's metro area as of the 2010 census was ~953,000 people and growing so it is very close to the "major" limit you define.

BUT yes, Perth is much larger.
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:05 pm

At the end of the day is it not a case of you go where the money is?
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:21 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 7):

Do you realise that by wanting more you are asking for more than Sydney has? No city in Australia has more than 2 cities in Indonesia and 1 city in Africa, so what makes you think that Perth can justify it? Perth, by virtue of its remoteness, is incredibly well served for a city of its size but let's not get too carried away! It is not Sydney or Melbourne.

Regarding MNL specifically, I thought that I'd read somewhere that Perth has a very small Pilipino population compared to SYD, MEL or even BNE, and this is why they don't have a MNL link?
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:08 pm

Western Australia is an economic power house.

Not only is the state the largest exporter of mineral goods, it is the largest exporter of agricultural products and manufactured goods. It is also a large exporter of professional services.

As other members have pointed out is geographically closer to the large Asian trading markets, than it is to the east coast cities of Australia.

The next mining boom will probably start to see more direct flights between Perth and the east coast nations of Africa. Kenya had been touted as an international destination for years. With Perth being home to quite a few mining/engineering firms their expertise will be in great demand (Africa is considered as the next destination for mining - similar features to Australia).

....and as another member pointed out, it is a bit of a cowboy town. In Australia we refer to it as the "wild west".

PS. If you like swimming just be aware you are more likely to be eaten by a Great White shark than any other place in the world (of course relative to how,many people actually get eaten by Great White sharks).

[Edited 2016-04-11 14:15:21]
 
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Devilfish
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41):
Regarding MNL specifically, I thought that I'd read somewhere that Perth has a very small Pilipino population compared to SYD, MEL or even BNE, and this is why they don't have a MNL link?

PR did fly to PER briefly via DRW but the service was discontinued after a short while owing to poor loads.
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UALWN
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:27 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 34):
One of the basic criteria for defining a "major" city is a population of more than one million people, which Honolulu falls well short of.
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 39):
Well, not to digress too much, but Honolulu's metro area as of the 2010 census was ~953,000 people and growing so it is very close to the "major" limit you define.

Exactly. By now the Honolulu metro area is sure above 1 million. And, in any case, Auckland is over 1 million and (just) further away from any other 1 m+ city than Perth is.
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:47 pm

I cannot fifure out why Quito has so many flights. What the heck is there?

[Edited 2016-04-11 14:47:35]
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:42 pm

OK folks, some of you took issue with the way I described Perth and its surroundings. By no means did I intend to mock the city and I apologize for seeming that I did. For the record, Perth and Fremantle are vibrant cities with great open spaces, restaurants, nightlife and other diversions. I always enjoy going there whenever I perform at one of its concert halls, usually the Maj. And for the record, I usually fly into town on QF.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 45):
I cannot fifure out why Quito has so many flights. What the heck is there?

I had to laugh at this one. My hometown isn't an ideal transportation to anywhere except back to the States, but hey, it's all we got!
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41):
No city in Australia has more than 2 cities in Indonesia and 1 city in Africa, so what makes you think that Perth can justify it?

What does this mean??
 
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RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:31 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 30):
Would be interesting to see on a map what routes are served from PER, both international and domestic

International:

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=cgk-per-dps%0d%0aakl-per-jnb%0d%0amru-per-doh%0d%0adxb-per-auh%0d%0asin-per-bkk%0d%0akul-per-hkg%0d%0acan-per-chc%0d%0abki-per-cck%0d%0axch-per&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

Domestic:

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=drw-per-bme%0d%0aknx-per-kta%0d%0akgi-per-asp%0d%0aphe-per-zne%0d%0acbr-per-ool%0d%0aget-per-alh%0d%0aepr-per-syd%0d%0amel-per-bne%0d%0aadl-per-cns%0d%0alea-per-pbo&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=*

I might have missed some. I've only included RPT, so not where they only fly mining charters.

-CXfirst
 
ben175
Posts: 807
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

RE: What The Heck Is In Perth?

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:57 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41):
Do you realise that by wanting more you are asking for more than Sydney has? No city in Australia has more than 2 cities in Indonesia and 1 city in Africa, so what makes you think that Perth can justify it? Perth, by virtue of its remoteness, is incredibly well served for a city of its size but let's not get too carried away! It is not Sydney or Melbourne.

Regarding MNL specifically, I thought that I'd read somewhere that Perth has a very small Pilipino population compared to SYD, MEL or even BNE, and this is why they don't have a MNL link?

Well considering the fact in the past 3 years we have had direct service to more than 2 cities in Indonesia - I can justify it. Jetstar briefly served Perth - Lombok and Indonesia AirAsia had also applied for rights but never commenced service. I think it's definitely possible in the right environment and as growth continues, especially with people "getting over" Bali and wanting to find new places to escape. Remember we are 3 hours from Indonesia - Sydney is 6-7. I firmly believe that if Lion were allowed to operate here, we would have a flight to Surabaya. I mean look at Malindo - 12 x weekly to KUL already.

When looking at Africa, if you count Mauritius - we do already have 2 links. I don't see how wanting another flight to Africa is getting "carried away" when we're 4 hours closer to the continent than Sydney - and KQ has previously stated they wanted to launch Perth by 2017 (but I don't think that will happen anymore with their current financial problems) Flying ADD-SYD or NBO-SYD is heading into expensive ULH territory. It would be much cheaper to fly to PER and team up with either QF or VA and offer connections to the Eastern seaboard.

Again, MNL is entirely possible because it's happened in the last 3 years - just with the wrong aircraft and a stopover that made the service unattractive. PR has stated they want to return to PER with the new A321's on the way and fly direct. If CNS can sustain a MNL service, PER will too.

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