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HALFA
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UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:54 am

No this is not an April Fools joke! UA is selling round trip tickets from ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, and SEA to MEL and SYD for $386.00 Round trip including all taxes and fees! I found it interesting that the discounted tickets are for travel from mostly DL Hub cities.
I've never seen prices this low for such long distances. Considering that DTW to MEL via SFO is 9933 miles, one way, $386.00 is a steal!

http://thepointsguy.com/2016/04/us-t...lia-from-386-round-trip-on-united/


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HALFA
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zeke
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:15 am

I think it should be illegal to sell public transportation by a private company at below the cost of supply.

Where are corners being cut ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:19 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):

No corners are being cut in US Part 121. It's just a sale
 
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:32 am

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
I've never seen prices this low for such long distances. Considering that DTW to MEL via SFO is 9933 miles, one way, $386.00 is a steal!

That is spectacular pricing - never seen before!

I think if people want to go to Australia, now is the time to do it. Don't UA fly the 787 to Australia now?
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
ahmetdouas
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:33 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):

What supply? They need to fill seats and fuel is so cheap! Besides, the 'private airlines' make enough money by ripping off people for luggage fees or charging them to the hilt for last minute fares in popular destinations and flight changes/cancellations!

A3 300 EUR ATH-JMK-ATH return anyone for a 20 minute flight?
 
AA737-823
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:46 am

For what it's worth, the return leg (mandatory SYD-LAX to get this fare) is just $24 all in....
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:13 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
I think it should be illegal to sell public transportation by a private company at below the cost of supply.

Cost of supply per seat, cost of supply per flight, cost of supply per route per a given period, cost of supply overall for the network, etc? Perhaps you mean they shouldn't be able to sell their seats at an overall loss, but then does that mean if an airline is losing money as as system that it should be forced to shut down? How long should they be allowed to sell tickets at a loss before they pull the plug?

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
Where are corners being cut ?

That seems a bit inflammatory.

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777LRF
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:47 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):

It's called tactical pricing war fare. If successfully used it can be a great marketing ploy with medium-long term benefit. Especially with the double B787 operations to MEL and SYD I think this is unbeatable.
 
B747forever
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:54 am

Sales like these are not unheard of. Just the other day you could fly ARN/OSL/CPH-SEA/SLC/DTW/ATL with LH/UA/AC in J for about $700-800 round trip. Was able to snag one going ARN-FRA-LAX-SEA-LAX-LHR-ARN.
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deltal1011man
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:57 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 6):

That seems a bit inflammatory.

Coming from that poster it's normal. Only Hong Kong based companies can offer a lower price and better service. Anyone else does it something is wrong
 
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zeke
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:26 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 4):

The most efficient aircraft in the would are doing around 3l/pax/100 km.

Work out the km for the return trip

Lookup the IATA fuel price monitor

Multiply the fuel burn by price published by IATA

Lookup the cost of fuel as a percentage of Uniteds costs.

Work out their total cost.

Compare to the sale price.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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airzim
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:38 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 10):

The most efficient aircraft in the would are doing around 3l/pax/100 km.

Work out the km for the return trip

Lookup the IATA fuel price monitor

Multiply the fuel burn by price published by IATA

Lookup the cost of fuel as a percentage of Uniteds costs.

Work out their total cost.

Compare to the sale price.

It's not like they are selling every seat at that price every dat of the week. This is RM 101. Maybe a few seats here and there with very restrictive tariffs, but hardly the whole airplane is being sold at $300 ticket.
 
RemoFlyer
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:39 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 10):
The most efficient aircraft in the would are doing around 3l/pax/100 km.

Work out the km for the return trip

Lookup the IATA fuel price monitor

Multiply the fuel burn by price published by IATA

Lookup the cost of fuel as a percentage of Uniteds costs.

Work out their total cost.

Compare to the sale price.

You do know this is an airplane with 300 odd seats per day, and only a handful of seats will sell for $400 - come back and look tomorrow UA will be selling the same seats for the same city pairs for $1500+.
 
lutfi
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:11 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):

SO ID90 travel should be banned?
 
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zeke
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:29 pm

Quoting lutfi (Reply 13):

LT/DT is not available to the public and does not displace paid passengers.

The people who end up paying for fare wars are employees and supplies. The domestic fare and capacity war in Australia is doing no one any good.

Short memories back to the chapter 11 days in the US as well.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
DXTraveler
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:44 pm

"The people who end up paying for fare wars are employees and supplies."

So the better solution is to fly the plane leaving those seats empty? As others have accurately pointed out, they are not selling the entire Y capacity at that price. We're talking a limited number of seats, maybe even certain days of the week.
 
mia
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:46 pm

Meanwhile, I pay $660 to fly EWR-RIC on weekdays rt; or $400 EWR (LGA)-SDF with a STOP. UGH.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
airbazar
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:50 pm

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
I've never seen prices this low for such long distances.
QR has been doing that for years. I can fly from BOS to just about anywhere in the World for less than what it costs to fly to Caribbean during April school vacation week   In fact QR will give you the flight for nearly nothing if you book a hotel.

[Edited 2016-04-11 06:51:38]
 
777ER
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:04 pm

Pity its not also from Australia - DL hubs. I'm about to book flights to DTW for August and so far QF is cheapest from WLG
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:05 pm

This seems like a mistake fare IMO
 
eal46859
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:12 pm

Amazing.. I checked DL... the cheapest Y is $2247.. I checked UA same days the cheapest is $387...even business is only $4500 or so on UA!
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:43 pm

I'm looking at SLC-SYD in June, and can see fares as low as $521. The inventory definitely changes from day to day.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:44 pm

I think this is really good strategy by UA. Of the big three international carriers, DL is in the weakest position to Australia and it seems like a logical place for United to put pressure on a competitor particularly in light of the recent Virgin Australia discussions. AA has a strong JV with QF and UA is strong in the market on their own metal.

I think this is a strong strategic move by UA.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:52 pm

Too bad I found out too late. Would have loved to snag a roundtrip for less than $1000. Everything left is over $600 (one way); the return is easily over $800, and that's not counting the transcon I have to take to/from WAS.

Hope Delta decides to retaliate by flying somewhere they're strong and UA is weak.
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dc10lover
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:02 pm

Also "farewars" Delta from UA hubs.

http://twitter.com/airfarewatchdog
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:05 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 23):
Hope Delta decides to retaliate by flying somewhere they're strong and UA is weak.

Internationally, other than to the Caribbean islands, there are few major destinations in which DL is meaningfully stronger than UA. I mean if DL were to run a "fare war" to SVO and Accra I don't think UA would worry much at all.
 
AAIL86
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:15 pm

This sounds like a glitch. I just tried Sabre on several routes and nothing...


1 UA5191W 17MAY T SEALAX*SS1 553P 839P /DCUA /E
2 UA 98W 17MAY T LAXMEL*SS1 1025P 725A 19MAY Q /DCUA /E
3 UA 840G 11JUN J SYDLAX SS1 945A 630A /DCUA /E

17MAY DEPARTURE DATE-----LAST DAY TO PURCHASE 11APR/2359
BASE FARE TAXES/FEES/CHARGES TOTAL
1- USD501.00 825.56XT USD1326.56ADT
XT 680.00YQ 35.60US 5.50YC 7.00XY
3.96XA 5.60AY 41.60AU 37.30WY
9.00XF
501.00 825.56 1326.56TTL
ADT-01 WLX47NME GLE0ZBM9
SEA UA X/LAX UA MEL465.00/-SYD UA LAX36.00NUC501.00END ROE1.00
XFSEA4.5LAX4.5
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:34 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
I think it should be illegal to sell public transportation by a private company at below the cost of supply.

It's called "dumping by the World Trade Organization (WTO). It gets nations with state run enterprises into trouble all the time.
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:00 pm

Quoting mia (Reply 16):

Meanwhile, I pay $660 to fly EWR-RIC on weekdays rt; or $400 EWR (LGA)-SDF with a STOP. UGH.

And UA will charge me ~$800 to fly SFO-SBA R/T during the week. Why? Because nobody else offers that route.
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):

The old story, supply and demand, not that's fair, but that's life.
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incitatus
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:01 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 10):
Work out their total cost.

Compare to the sale price

What you are stating is a bit funny. You are basically saying airlines should not be allowed to lose money on a unit basis per individual sale. Pretty much no large business follows that rule, especially those with very high fixed costs. They rather sell at an allocated loss because the sale does bring incremental cash - the plane is going to fly regardless.

You should start a campaign to shut down Ryanair. And easyjet, Vueling, Norwegian, Frontier, Air Asia, Spirit. 
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winginit
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:35 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):

Pity its not also from Australia - DL hubs. I'm about to book flights to DTW for August and so far QF is cheapest from WLG

No surprise given the traditional AU/US POS split for the applicable sale months (May to August). It's a deep US POS trough for US-AU routes as very few Americans want to go to Australia in the dead of the Aussie winter when the US is so appealing during that same time frame from a weather perspective.

These are stunningly low fares tho, and the retaliation should be fun to watch. Those in the industry will tell you from a pricing perspective these two have been at each other's throats to an even higher degree than usual for the past eight weeks or so.
 
airplan727
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:05 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 10):
The most efficient aircraft in the would are doing around 3l/pax/100 km.

Work out the km for the return trip

Lookup the IATA fuel price monitor

Multiply the fuel burn by price published by IATA

Lookup the cost of fuel as a percentage of Uniteds costs.

Work out their total cost.

Compare to the sale price.

This is pretty basic marketing/sale techniques. You offer a product at a loss to attract business. It's called a loss leader. You get someone's foot in the door with a great price and hope they like your products/brand enough that they decide to keep using your business at pricing that won't sell other products at a loss. A private organization can ALMOST offer whatever price they want, especially in the spirit of promoting competition.
 
cpd
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:34 pm

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
No this is not an April Fools joke! UA is selling round trip tickets from ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, and SEA to MEL and SYD for $386.00 Round trip including all taxes and fees!

And going from Sydney to Atlanta, I priced AU $1745 Round-Trip per person on UAL.

I'd be tempted to pay the extra ~$300 for Qantas and go via DFW on QF7, then AA to ATL. That said, it's all hypothetical as I've got no intention or reason to go there.
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:35 pm

Quoting airplan727 (Reply 32):
This is pretty basic marketing/sale techniques. You offer a product at a loss to attract business. It's called a loss leader. You get someone's foot in the door with a great price and hope they like your products/brand enough that they decide to keep using your business at pricing that won't sell other products at a loss. A private organization can ALMOST offer whatever price they want, especially in the spirit of promoting competition.

In aviation you can also fill lower performing flights with some revenue. Then people who would book no matter what end up paying high fares.
 
BoeingBear
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:51 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
I think it should be illegal to sell public transportation by a private company at below the cost of supply.

Sure, why not? The marginal cost of 1 passenger + 1 bag from the US to Australia is ~60 gallons of jet-A at USD ~1.00/gallon, an extra couple of economy meals at ~ $5 each, and GDS commission of ~8%. Added together, this means a price floor of ~$154 R/T before taxes. As the OP's link shows the airline charging $245 + taxes/fees, it looks to me like this fare is a profitable one. Anyone disagree? (Yes, the numbers are guesstimates and could be argued ad infinitum.)

 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:03 pm

Quoting BoeingBear (Reply 35):

From UA's perspective it's better to have 385.56 than zero dollars and if it drives a spoiled seat on DL........all the better.
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uberflieger
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:13 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 19):
seems like a mistake
Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 26):
sounds like a glitch

  
This pricing is so absurd, maybe somebody filed RT, what should have been OW, which would have still been a great fare.

Quoting winginit (Reply 31):
these two (DL/UA) have been at each other's throats to an even higher degree than usual

I don't doubt a minute they're fiercely competing with each other, but this is so out of character. The US3 in general seem to behave more like oligarchs.
Wondering, do you have any other such extreme pricing examples?

Hoping lots of you guys got lucky!   
 
liftsifter
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:14 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
The people who end up paying for fare wars are employees and supplies. The domestic fare and capacity war in Australia is doing no one any good.

Short memories back to the chapter 11 days in the US as well.

Hold on, there's only three major carriers in the US now, they've been colluding on prices for years and now they're finally starting to compete and you want to scare people about this? Give me a break.
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afcjets
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 4):
They need to fill seats and fuel is so cheap!
Quoting 777LRF (Reply 7):
It's called tactical pricing war fare. If successfully used it can be a great marketing ploy with medium-long term benefit. Especially with the double B787 operations to MEL and SYD I think this is unbeatable
Quoting rta (Reply 19):
This seems like a mistake fare IMO
Quoting airplan727 (Reply 32):
This is pretty basic marketing/sale techniques. You offer a product at a loss to attract business. It's called a loss leader.

This is no mistake or loss leader. It is nothing more than a signal from UA to let DL know they are not pleased with pricing action they took in one of their hubs or primary markets. Once DL corrects their mistake so to speak, the price will disappear, usually only takes a day or two. The fare UA Is displeased with likely ends in 86 too, to avoid confusion as to what the offending fare is. Sometimes it can get ugly though, and the prices can drop in mulitples of $100, until the offending carrier gets the message, or it can expand into more hubs.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
Sales like these are not unheard of. Just the other day you could fly ARN/OSL/CPH-SEA/SLC/DTW/ATL with LH/UA/AC in J for about $700-800 round trip.

Not at all, happens all the time, and they almost always happen in another airline's hub.

[Edited 2016-04-11 16:17:13]
 
uberflieger
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:27 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 39):
The fare UA Is displeased with likely ends in 86 too

Wow, sounds like you guys are really on to something. 
 
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zeke
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:31 pm

Quoting BoeingBear (Reply 35):

That route is around 32000 km, at 3l/100 km (which is very conservative for the domestic sectors), that is 960 l is 0.76 t at around $350/t is just a fuel cost of around $270

Add other direct costs like navigation crew catering and fixed costs the seats are being sold well below cost.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
af773atmsp
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:13 am

Tried different dates for MSP-SYD-LAX but lowest I could get was around $400 MSP-SYD and around $700 SYD-LAX. If I did find the $400 roundtrip I would take it in a heartbeat.
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KDTWflyer
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:59 am

I ALWAYS seem to miss these fares from DTW, I mean ALWAYS. Anyway that is a pretty sweet price point for sure. I kinda wish the B744 was on the UAL runs to OZ but B789 is pretty sweet too!
 
braniff2hav
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:06 am

One of the carriers needs to go ... United is not the strongest on the route by any means. DL has VA as a partner and AA and QF have become the power house. So UA is making a splash to be recognized it seems.

The fares are definitely not a fluke or error - they are still out there - infact extended through September for travel.
 
KDTWflyer
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:09 am

Quoting braniff2hav (Reply 45):
they are still out there

Where at? I have looked far and wide and cannot find them anywhere arghhh :/
 
peanuts
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:12 am

Quoting braniff2hav (Reply 45):
One of the carriers needs to go ...

Why?

As a matter of fact, UA has quite a history and following to Australia. More so than DL.

Three carriers/alliances works fine.

[Edited 2016-04-11 20:13:28]
 
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CALTECH
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:55 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
I think it should be illegal to sell public transportation by a private company at below the cost of supply.

Where are corners being cut ?

What corners is Singapore Airlines cutting ?

"According to Mohshin Aziz, Associate Director of Equity Markets (Research) at Maybank Investment Bank,....In particular, he highlighted that SIA’s long-haul routes have been almost consistently loss-making since FY09 as its competitors have refined their strategy and successfully established themselves into SIA’s markets."

"Almost all of Singapore’s longhaul routes have been losing money for about six years. That’s insane."
You are here.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:36 am

Maybe most of the Southeast Asian Airlines are cutting corners. Should be illegal to do business like this, selling seats at a loss. With the hull losses and total fatalities onboard, hope that is not reflecting corners being cut in Southeast Asia.  

"Southeast Asian airlines: 80% were unprofitable in 1H2014"

"Southeast Asian airlines: improved profitability in 3Q2015, 9M2015 but over half remain unprofitable"

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ons-are-starting-to-improve-186786

[Edited 2016-04-11 22:37:47]
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: UA Starts Aussie Fare War..$386 RT From DL Hubs!

Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:24 am

Quoting mia (Reply 16):
Meanwhile, I pay $660 to fly EWR-RIC on weekdays rt; or $400 EWR (LGA)-SDF with a STOP. UGH.

Earlier I got BWI-SFO-PDX-DEN-BWI -- a nice one-day junket -- and 5489 PQM -- @ $261.60.

Australia will have to wait.  

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