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ikramerica
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:50 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 49):

Tangent. Not target. Tangent discussing past decisions.
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Revelation
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 42):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 29):
I don't think you're getting the time line right. QF committed to the A380 before the 777's popularity, not during it.

That's not correct. The 777-200ER was in service. QF ignored it.

It's a fair point that at the time the 77E existed and it was ignored, but the context was that they ignored the 77W which didn't exist at the time they made the initial A380 decision and was far from a slam dunk (especially given the initial GE90 performance).

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 49):
True. But it was a target involving "hindsight" and there was no such thing as that, because at the time it was obvious to many, just not the then current management, that this was true.

There definitely is some hindsight because the 77W proved to be a far better plane than anticipated and the 787 turned out to be far later than anticipated. On the other hand, there definitely were people projecting the A380 would be too large and inflexible. QF is certainly not the only airline that was swept up by the 'drug like rush' of the A380.
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Planesmart
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:10 pm

Quoting flyglobal (Reply 3):
Typically such an issue is solved when you buy other planes from the same manufacturer as a kind of compensation. Create win win.

So long as orders remain classified as orders by A or B, the customer has a liability.

Airbus offered $X cash compensation for late delivery and out of service (while modifications were undertaken) time. Airbus offered $X plus Y if customers elected to apply the compensation as credits to as yet undelivered aircraft. Most took the latter.

No airline took the opportunity to negotiate the status of orders from orders to options, but they did re-negotiate delivery dates.

As stated, the ability and terms on which QF may be able to exit the remaining orders, and other airlines too, will already be the subject of deep and meaningful conversations with Airbus, and quite probably, also involve EK. In the case of QF, that could also involve a JV time and scope extension.

[Edited 2016-04-16 14:12:19]
 
UKtoOzFlyer
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:44 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 49):
As you say, the current management doesn't think that way, but the mess they are in and the order book they have came from that way of thinking.

At least the current management had the foresight not to take the extra A380's and have deferred them (and not entirely sure we will see them take more).

The current management were also smart enough to delay entry of new 787's given the relatively low fuel cost making existing 744s still economically viable, and padding up the balance sheet. I think when the 789's come in, will be a great bonus, but would still love to see an A350 in there somewhere too (not that that will happen)

As for decisions in the past, too many were made on ego.

Then issue for QF right now is their heavy fleet utilisation, especially of the A380 kind. One delay causes havoc with the schedules. That said, I still think the whale jet is the right aircraft for some of their routes.

I sat next to a 747 captain heading back to SYD ex LAX last year who had flown into LA on a 744 subbing for the 380. Even as a Boeing nerd (in his words) he said the 380 fitted on some routes. Interestingly whislt he said the 777 would be a great fit now, he understood why they never bought them back in the early 00's ...
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:53 am

Quoting UKtoOzFlyer (Reply 53):
That said, I still think the whale jet is the right aircraft for some of their routes.

But 12 of them? They have to send out each one with about 380 passengers otherwise the cost per passenger for fuel to push the ~ 290t airplane becomes very expensive.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:59 am

Quoting UKtoOzFlyer (Reply 47):
Remember it was Dixon who ordered the A380's, and it was Dixon who ordered 115 787's. I mean, where were Qantas going to fly 115 787's?

They weren't "full orders" at the original MOU/LOI included options as well as purchase rights.
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Gemuser
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:01 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 54):
But 12 of them?

Yes 12, minimum. 6 for LHR, 6 for LAX was very reasonable when ordered. They have increased utilisation to bring LHR down to around 5.5, not sure its worth it for maintenance reasons. They have effectively shifted the second daily SYD - LAX to SYD-DFW & with AA entering LAX-SYD the second daily is not needed so much, yet. The fleet is still stretched very tight with just those two routes, I am told 2 to 4 more are required to safe guard current routes.

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ZK-NBT
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:12 am

Hmm so the 2000 order in hindsight. Should QF have take. 77E's rather than A380's to give them more flexibility to Asia, and also they would have been good to launch BNE-LAX, SFO, YVR etc. It could have allowed earlier retirement of the 743 fleet.

Maybe 764's for domestic rather than A330's although QF wanted a 300 seater for domestic IIRC at the time, the domestic 763's seated around 250 I think?! So the 764 is a little bigger and could have got 270 in? Or else particularly on the PER runs more 2 class 744's could have been used and eventually replaced by smaller more efficient 77E's which in turn could be replaced on longer high capacity international runs by larger 77W's.

Part of me still says they would have taken the 744ER's for increased performance on MEL-LAX particularly and they were available fairly quickly and before it was known how good th 77W would become.

As above 77W's could then have been taken later probably 2007ish as the 744's came to their third heavy checks they could have replaced the older 1989/92 builds on with increased frequency on some routes and more flexibility to move them around than the A380's. However I do agree that the current A380 routes are suited to that aircraft.

A small subfleet of 77L's for DFW from both SYD/MEL then would fit well, say 6-8 aircraft.

They would still have kept the 9 youngest 744's for routes to JNB, SCL and a few others where required plus a bit of PER-SYD/MEL/BNE.

787's could come around the time they are now planned to 2018 to replace the remaining 744's and then start replacing ordered 77E's offering further flexibility.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:18 am

Lets be honest, 20/20 hindsight is great and all but lets review the facts:

1. The order was designed so that the 789's would have been operating at QF far earlier than has eventuated, due to delays and by that stage QF needed to re-prioritise is capex plans. The need for 777's would have been next to zero had the 789's arrived when they were originally intended.
2. The A380 made sense for QF at the time in terms of what was on offer at that time. It may have ended up at about the right number with 12 and still appear to be performing well with them.The 77W at the time of was not the plane it is today.
3. A decade is a long time in aviation and a lot has changed. Increased competitive pressures, order delays and the economic challenges that can come around quite quickly. Decisions have to be made based on what is in front of you at the time.

At the end of the day, the 789's will offer a lot to QF after 2017, with ongoing options conversions to increase the number on hand in a phased approach, and I would not rule out either the 778/779 or the A350 in future if it sees a need for them in the fleet mix.
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:01 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 54):
12 of them? They have to send out each one with about 380 passengers otherwise the cost per passenger for fuel to push the ~ 290t airplane becomes very expensive.

What makes you think they don't?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:38 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 58):

The 789 had nothing to do with the 2000 order, NZ and ANA ordered the 7E7 as it was still in 2004. A 772 order in 2000 would have allowed the 742/743 to retire earlier, rather than upgrade the 743 cabins as late as 2005 they could have retired them by then, 3/4 years earlier than they did. The 77W would to me have then been a natural progression to replace a fair chunk of the 744 fleet from 2007/08. They could have also a bit later planned 787's to be delivered from 2008/09 replacing some 744's as well, with the 787 delays they could have changed the delayed 787's to more 77W's or some 77L's.

I agree the A380 is fine for the routes it is on and 2/3 more could probably be handy and at the time was probably not a bad decision.

The A330's were a give away with the A380 order, they are good at what they do to Asia and domestic but IMO don't have the flexibility since they can't do North America or DXB. And it would have been to much in the early 2000's to replace the 763 fleet as well.
 
cpd
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:41 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 57):
Hmm so the 2000 order in hindsight. Should QF have take.

But why exactly should they have chosen the B767-400? What exactly has the A330-200 done wrong for Qantas?

And the 777-200/LR? What would Qantas want with that? It seems to be a solution looking for a problem. Better to use the A380 and the 747-400/ER as they are rather than acquire a small amount of niche airplanes.

The 787-9 should have been here sooner, if not for delays on the Boeing side and politics on the Qantas side with management playing chicken with staff over pay/conditions.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:07 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 61):

I mentioned in reply 60 the A330 is a good plane for QF for what it does but QF took them for a steal for buying the A380. I say the 764 because it was a little bigger than the 763, though at the time QF wanted a 300 seater for domestic use which the 764 wouldn't have given them but had commonality with the 763, now the A332 fleet is being reconfigured to have 271 seats rather than 300 plus.

The 77L would have been part of a larger 777 fleet, or weather QF would have used a 77W and blocked seats like they do with the A380 74E anyway.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:19 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 59):
What makes you think they don't?

Joyce's antipathy towards the type . Joyce is a numbers man and for him the type is not performing.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:57 pm

Quoting Planesmart (Reply 52):
EK would have no interst in QF's A380s as they are RR powered.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 54):

Yes 12. At a push 10 would cover LAX and LHR.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 57):

You touch on something no one else mentioned yet and that's MEL-LAX. At the time the 747ER was the longest range aircraft out there.

I agree that the 764 would actually have been better suited to domestic operations than the 330, but that's ancient history. What confused me from your post is how the 772 would give them more flexibility in Asia than the 330? The whole of Asia is within 333 range of the East Coast, so why fly a heavier, less economic aircraft? And really this touches the heart of the A330 vs 772 debate. The A330 is more efficient over shorter distances and has a relatively short range, the 772 comes into it's own at 8/10 hours+. We now know that the 772 would probably be perfect for BNE-LAX, SYD-SFO, possibly allow YVR to go year round etc, but the decision to order 332/333 rather than 764/772 clearly shows that management didn't believe that those were markets for suited smaller twins, and therefore purchased the right aircraft for flights in the 5-10 hour range.

Quoting cpd (Reply 61):

The 764 is still the 767 that Qantas knows and loves. It has better economics than the 332 on sub-4 hour sectors and would probably turn around faster as well making it a much more natural replacement for the 767s on the Golden Triangle. Of course that market seems to be doing fine with umpteen 737s and a 330 once in a blue moon, but if they had been looking for a real 767 replacement for short domestic hops then the 767 was pretty much the only aircraft in production that was comfortable in that role.

[Edited 2016-04-17 14:19:31]
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MPadhi
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 64):
EK would have no interst in QF's A380s as they are RR powered.

EK are getting RR A380s too  http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/pre...gest-ever-order-from-emirates.aspx
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:28 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 64):
EK would have no interst in QF's A380s as they are RR powered.

More important they are only set up for 560t MTOW and they are gas guzzlers compared to the new 575t versions that EK is getting , These have some 3 to 4% better fuel burn than the early versions.
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 63):
Joyce's antipathy towards the type . Joyce is a numbers man and for him the type is not performing.

He made no statement about load factors. His numbers seem to be favouring Jetstar because he can pay the crews less, hence they get the 787 instead of QANTAS.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:38 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 67):
He made no statement about load factors. His numbers seem to be favouring Jetstar because he can pay the crews less, hence they get the 787 instead of QANTAS.

Lets be honest, as VA is finding more and more, the market is driven by price and JQ is its best hope of competing in many sectors.

You can see why his logic moved in that direction.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 60):
The 789 had nothing to do with the 2000 order, NZ and ANA ordered the 7E7 as it was still in 2004. A 772 order in 2000 would have allowed the 742/743 to retire earlier, rather than upgrade the 743 cabins as late as 2005 they could have retired them by then, 3/4 years earlier than they did.

Lets be honest, airlines will always look at what is best for the balance sheet, and Airbus made the best deal at the time.

If Boeing had made a compelling case to order the 77E the it would have gone that way, but what it chose was a fleet mix that offering continuity (744's were already in the fleet making the 74E a natural fit), a medium haul product that was just starting to show signs of becoming a market leader (A330) and the biggest and newest product coming to market at the time (A380).

The fact that Airbus was aggressive and rolled the A330 into the A380 deal would have been an extremely exciting proposition, as that gave it a broad fleet plan.

The 787 order was made when the airline saw its chance to get into the next gen game, giving it a product that would complement its existing fleet and retire the 744's and 763's. The delays to both the A380 and the 787 were very unfortunate and proved problematic at that stage. If it had of worked out as scheduled, many of today's questions would likely not even be raised.
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 68):
Lets be honest, as VA is finding more and more, the market is driven by price and JQ is its best hope of competing in many sectors.

Quite right. His real problem is his issue with QANTAS.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:53 am

The topic of QF possibly not receiving any more A380s has always left me wondering about QF's plans for SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL in the future.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:55 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 69):

He has no issue with Qantas. He has been consistent in saying that there would be growth opportunities for the mainline brand once it was turned around and operating profitably, and he has been true to his word on that. SFO and seasonal YVR as new markets, adding capacity in Asia, (re)ordering 787s... things are happening at Qantas.
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:17 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 71):
He has no issue with Qantas. He has been consistent in saying that there would be growth opportunities for the mainline brand once it was turned around and operating profitably, and he has been true to his word on that. SFO and seasonal YVR as new markets, adding capacity in Asia, (re)ordering 787s... things are happening at Qantas.

I agree.

AJ was also right to focus its attention on JQ also as it is best suited to other missions at first, whilst looking at strategic partnerships and different brands as the best way forward.

The growth of JQ international out of MEL in particular has really shown that market gaps that could not be handled by a higher cost model out of multiple gateways can be re-focused around a lower-cost model. It allows targeted services with mainline where those opportunities exist, with more marginal markets that offer strategic potential to add value still able to be tapped into with a more leisure oriented brand.

Getting the mix right is key, which they appear to be doing a better job at, but the arrival of the 789's will give QF the opportunity to further explore ways of servicing its current and future customer base.
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:20 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 72):
AJ was also right to focus its attention on JQ also as it is best suited to other missions at first, whilst looking at strategic partnerships and different brands as the best way forward.

"looking" consisted on blowing hundreds of millions of QANTAS dollars on speculative ventures that flopped or weren't even really planned. Like buying planes before you even have a license to fly them. That money could have been invested in QANTAS instead.
 
qf002
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 63):
Joyce's antipathy towards the type . Joyce is a numbers man and for him the type is not performing.

I'm not aware that he has ever stated that publicly. While your figures and analysis are interesting and always much appreciated, it's important to remember that they only tell half the story. Yield is the primary driver of profit, not cost.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 73):
"looking" consisted on blowing hundreds of millions of QANTAS dollars on speculative ventures that flopped or weren't even really planned. Like buying planes before you even have a license to fly them. That money could have been invested in QANTAS instead.

You seem to be conveniently forgetting the failed Red-Q venture. It's not all about Jetstar.

The whole "AJ hates QF" thing is getting old. Of course he historically championed JQ, that was his job as the airline's CEO. The reality is that QF has been the primary focus and beneficiary of his work since becoming Group CEO.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:48 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 64):

Regarding flexibility the 77E would have been used on some North American services including SFO, YVR plus could have covered Asia. Nothing wrong I agree with the A330, just couldn't go anywhere other than Asia and domestic which it does a good job at.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 68):

No doubt airlines do what's best for them, I think they were close to ordering the 777 In the 2000 order but got a great deal on A330s as part of the A380 purchase.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:33 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 70):
The topic of QF possibly not receiving any more A380s has always left me wondering about QF's plans for SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL in the future.

It might be that QF will code share with all LAN flights to SCL , a QF flight No. using LAN metal, and I would think
the same with their Joburg flights domestic to Perth then SA to Joburg. That's my thinking anyway.
 
Planesmart
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 66):
More important they are only set up for 560t MTOW and they are gas guzzlers compared to the new 575t versions that EK is getting , These have some 3 to 4% better fuel burn than the early versions.

As the postponed QF A380's haven't been built yet, what relevance is your comment regarding 560t MTOW & gas guzzlers. If QF is compelled to buy, and EK acquire the order, EK will spec as they require.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:12 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 76):
It might be that QF will code share with all LAN flights to SCL , a QF flight No. using LAN metal,

Can't happen on a QF code share on a LAN B787 UNLESS CASA approves the EDTO, which they say they will, in which case QF can fly their own B787s. Mind you I'll believe that 24 hours after the first month of commercial service is finished.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 76):
I would think the same with their Joburg flights domestic to Perth then SA to Joburg

QF today could fly to JNB from Perth with their current A330s. Will they? No idea, but they could, the current EDTO 180 only requires a very minimal detour.

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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:55 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 70):
The topic of QF possibly not receiving any more A380s has always left me wondering about QF's plans for SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL in the future. The 238t A332 should do it nicely.
Quoting gemuser (Reply 78):
UNLESS CASA approves the EDTO, which they say they will

It was effective July 1st 2015. CASA was accepting applications effective that date.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 78):
but they could, the current EDTO 180 only requires a very minimal detour.

For PER -JNB ,EDTO entry and exit points at GET and MRU are within EDTO 240-min.
 
UKtoOzFlyer
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:20 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 67):

He made no statement about load factors. His numbers seem to be favouring Jetstar because he can pay the crews less, hence they get the 787 instead of QANTAS.

Stop... Just stop!

Dixon ordered the 787's, and the initial order was always going to JQ. It's on record on the QAN press releases to the ASX.

The first tranche in 2008 was going too JQ, the next lot to QF in 2009....
 
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enzo011
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:30 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 75):
Regarding flexibility the 77E would have been used on some North American services including SFO, YVR plus could have covered Asia. Nothing wrong I agree with the A330, just couldn't go anywhere other than Asia and domestic which it does a good job at.

Would these routes have in any way prevented the problems that Qantas had as an airline though? Were their main problem a airframe and route problem or were their problems more to do with the way the airline was set up and the historic staffing numbers and the way the airline was run?

Are we saying that had Qantas had the 777 they would not have had years of losses and had to do a turnaround financially the past few years?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:39 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 75):

I genuinely believe that QF would not have been flying to SFO or YVR even if they had 777s. Qantas' problems were structural and endemic, and were far too complex to be solved by flying different planes. IMHO they would still have been loss making routes, just maybe slightly less drastic than the 747.

But assume that the did operate those two, plus BNE-LAX, then what? That's maybe 6 aircraft, and you've just maxed out the entire growth opportunities for it. I still don't believe that the gap was ever as big as people made it out to be, and I'll point out again that the A330s economics are unbeatable on 8 hour sectors which is where the real growth opportunities lie.
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qf002
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:14 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 82):
But assume that the did operate those two, plus BNE-LAX, then what?

Oh, at least two dozen cities across Europe according to some people  

The 744 has not proven to a barrier for successful services launched to SFO and YVR in the last 18 months. Nor was it a barrier when they (profitably) served SFO with 744s in the past and it didn't stop them from giving YVR a crack ten years ago. Other 744 routes like BNE-LAX, SYD-SCL and SYD-HND don't exactly seem to be doing poorly either.

QF's long-haul fleet isn't perfect but it has served them well all things considered. The current route map is a result of their strategy to consolidate and then build, not a result of their fleet limitations. We would have seen the cuts anyway.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 82):
I'll point out again that the A330s economics are unbeatable on 8 hour sectors which is where the real growth opportunities lie.

Indeed, just imagine how much worse things could have been if QF had been stuck using 77Es to Asia while the rest of the market was flying A330s.
 
UA444
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:24 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 35):

That depends which 777-200ER you have ? Remember United has what has to be the worst engine on their 777, Pratts, that
ever existed. Its merger partner, Continental, had and now United has what have to be the best non LR 777 in the business which would have no issue making LAX to SYD since they regularly flew Newark to Hong Kong and EWR to India Nonstop with GE90 at 94K thrust.

Does Gordon Bethune know how to order an airplane ? You bet your 16 hour flights he does. UA should appoint Gordon chairman. HE took Continental from " Worst to First" while United has gone from "First to Worst".

The same Gordon Buffoon who in his infinite wisdom bought the dog named the 767-400ER out of blind Boeing loyalty than was a sales dud compared to the A332.

Or the same Buffoon who bought 762s and not 763s a full 10 years after most airlines stopped buying the 762? That Gordon Bethune?

Oh, and FYI, the PW 772s regularly do ORD-HKG and make the flight no problem. UA obviously disagreed with you when they put them on SFO/LAX-SYD when they had a choice to put the GE aircraft if they wanted to. And the GE 772s can and do experience weight penalties out of EWR to HKG and TLV.

Worst engine on the 777? Thats rich since the PW is the only 777 engine that hasn't been the cause of a major accident while the GE and RR have.

[Edited 2016-04-18 11:37:47]
 
UA444
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
Does EWR-HKG even go out weight restricted at all?

There are photos in the data base of this flight diverting to SFO to refuel. The GE 772 is not some miracle machine, it has the same issues other non LRs do.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 84):
The same Gordon Buffoon

  

It's bad enough that you and posters like you make every UA thread into the exact same neverending "pmUA sux! pmCO sux!" monkey poo fight. Now you have to do it to threads completely unrelated to UA as well!   

More relevantly to the thread, despite the Pratt version's lower max MTOW, no 77E with the max MTOW option has any trouble carrying a full load of passengers on LAX-SYD.
 
jfk777
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:18 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 85):
uoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
Does EWR-HKG even go out weight restricted at all?

There are photos in the data base of this flight diverting to SFO to refuel. The GE 772 is not some miracle machine, it has the same issues other non LRs do.

The Conintnetal, now United , GE90 powered 777-200ER are not LR machines.
 
jfk777
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 84):

Oh, and FYI, the PW 772s regularly do ORD-HKG and make the flight no problem. UA obviously disagreed with you when they put them on SFO/LAX-SYD when they had a choice to put the GE aircraft if they wanted to. And the GE 772s can and do experience weight penalties out of EWR to HKG and TLV.

Its not question of United agreeing with me or not about 777 fleet planning. It seems to me the "Coninental " 777 fly the Newark 777 routes they flew before the merger and the same for the UA 777 fleet. Since United always flew LAX to SYD that is a UA 777 with Pratts. Newark to Hong Kong, Israel and India are flown with Continental 777's.

Its also about the UA 777 have First Class and the Continental 777 do not, they have the excellent Business First. The United J class on the 777 and 744 is different and not "Business First".
 
cpd
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:25 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 74):
It's not all about Jetstar.

Excepting Jetstar Hong Kong of course, leaving silver A320s parked up at Blagnac until they were sold off to other parties.

The decision:http://www.thb.gov.hk/eng/boards/transport/air/Summary%20of%20decision%20%28Eng%29%2025062015.pdf

Qantas with the A330s was a reasonable decision and they are doing the job okay. I suspect the postponed A380s will eventually join the fleet, probably as replacements for the current ones.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:46 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
I wonder if it would it be possible to crunch the numbers comparing EWR-HKG and LAX-SYD on a GE 77E? The latter is shorter

A "bad" day LAX- SYD would be 15hrs or about 7000nm. The load/range chart for the 77E shows a ZFW of 180t for this range. Typically the 77E DOW is 147t which allows a 33t payload. This is typically 270 passengers plus 2 or 3t of freight. A more typical day is 14hrs 30 min. which should allow for an additional 3t of freight. A typical day EWR/HKG/EWR is 15hrs 30 min.. probably good for 270-passengers but nothing more.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:34 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 79):
It was effective July 1st 2015. CASA was accepting applications effective that date.

True, BUT: "Mind you I'll believe that 24 hours after the first month of commercial service is finished."

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 79):
For PER -JNB ,EDTO entry and exit points at GET and MRU are within EDTO 240-min.

Also true, but the detour to stay EDTO180, approval for which QF already have is minimal, between 100 & 200 nm by my calculation, some years ago. Which is why I said they could operate PER-JNB "tomorrow" ie they don't need to extend their EDTO180 approval.
BTW Hugh, have you seen any applications filed?

Gemuser
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas And Their "postponed" A380's

Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:39 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 91):
BTW Hugh, have you seen any applications filed?

No but I have not tried to find an answer. Will see what I can find out.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Qantas And Their

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:41 pm

gilesdavies wrote:
I'm a little out the loop, but remember some years back when Qantas was going through some serious financial problems, they postponed the last eight A380's they were supposed to receive from Airbus.

What is latest on these aircraft?

Are they still supposed to be getting them at a later date, or are they like Virgin Atlantic and their phantom A380's?!

The Airbus order book, is still showing them up...

http://www.airbus.com/company/market/orders-deliveries/


From August 5th, 2016:

Qantas Airways Ltd. said it doesn’t want the remaining eight A380s it still has on order because the dozen it operates now are sufficient to meet demand, further dimming future sales prospects for the largest passenger plane that’s struggled to find buyers.

“Our intention is that we’re not taking those aircraft,” Qantas Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce said Friday at an airline conference in Brisbane, Australia.


And:

“We believe there’s a network for 12 that’s very good and works very well,” Joyce said. “We struggle with a network for the next eight.”


It doesn't discuss any implications of getting rid of the current order.

Ref: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... t-on-order
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