User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6089
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:18 pm

Well, can't say I'm surprised.

Quote:
A spokesman recently said that American prefers to focus on adding flights to Asia from Dallas and Los Angeles “for a variety of reasons, including geography and demand.”

^ Which is obviously fine knowing the fact that there's a lot more trust in those markets. ^


Now this is interesting; MIA officials and local business leaders established "MIA Asia Task Force".

"MIA Asia Task Force" will be meeting with airlines in Asia to push for service. A trip to China is scheduled for April 11-23.

They are currently targeting: Japan Airlines, China Airlines, Asiana Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, All Nippon Airways, Cathay Pacific, Air China, Korean Air, EVA Air and Hainan Airlines.


http://www.thenextmiami.com/mias-fir...ikely-wont-come-american-airlines/


Sad it won't be AA but I saw this coming from a mile away.


Thoughts?


-Miami   

[Edited 2016-04-11 10:19:19]

[Edited 2016-04-11 11:10:41]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6089
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:20 pm

It should be noted that:

Quote:
the Asian city with the highest demand to and from Miami is Manilla, but the route is not considered viable for economic and technical reasons.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:20 pm

IMHO MIA-NRT is a market worth trying.
"Up the Irons!"
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2636
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:20 pm

Well, JAL is a Oneworld partner and has 788's already,

They might be able to make a MIA-NRT route work   
 
VAM8789
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:46 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:25 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 2):

IMHO MIA-NRT is a market worth trying.
Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):

Well, JAL is a Oneworld partner and has 788's already,

They might be able to make a MIA-NRT route work   

I have always been surprised that JL chose NRT-BOS and NRT-SAN before jumping into the hub to hub route on NRT-MIA.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25935
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 4):
I have always been surprised that JL chose NRT-BOS and NRT-SAN before jumping into the hub to hub route on NRT-MIA.

Not only are both of those larger markets to Asia, but a 788 wouldn't have the easiest time flying MIA-NRT, and the way JAL configures it's 788s so low density, they couldn't make a dime to Florida. Maybe when the 789s come along.
a.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
"MIA Asia Task Force".

MIA Asia Task Force is like if Fairbanks opened an African task force, or Maine opened an Australian task force.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:06 pm

do you have a link to the article?
 
User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6089
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 7):

Weird that it wasn't there.. Would've sworn I saw the link before I posted this thread. But anyways, I edited it.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
rta
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:44 pm

MIA-Asia didn't really make much sense anyway, to be honest.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1590
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):
They might be able to make a MIA-NRT route work

For the most part, as a "catch-all" hub-to-hub. The Asia-Florida market is fragmented. But how can you "bundle up" all that to make it viable?

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 4):
I have always been surprised that JL chose NRT-BOS and NRT-SAN before jumping into the hub to hub route on NRT-MIA.

BOS also needed to be connected to TPE, and there is a fair amount of travel to the Philippines from SAN.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
MIA Asia Task Force is like if Fairbanks opened an African task force,

Interesting that you mention this. There are more Gambians, than most people think, who go to ANC, on a regular basis.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:19 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 4):
I have always been surprised that JL chose NRT-BOS and NRT-SAN before jumping into the hub to hub route on NRT-MIA.

Not only are both of those larger markets to Asia, but a 788 wouldn't have the easiest time flying MIA-NRT, and the way JAL configures it's 788s so low density, they couldn't make a dime to Florida. Maybe when the 789s come along.


Maybe when either JL or AA gets the A359XWB it might be a route considering. IIRC, "The Route Shop" did a study a few years back and MIA-NRT was certainly one route which was potentially viable.
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25935
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:25 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 9):

MIA-Asia didn't really make much sense anyway, to be honest.

It's the single largest U.S.-Asia market without a non-stop, at 700 PDEW and growing at a quick pace, especially to China.
a.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4061
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:35 pm

LAX is obvious, but where else would they try from DFW that isn't already flown.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:36 pm

fragmented market, many destinations, served very well over multiple gateways as is. not sure what one more flight adds to the picture.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):

It's the single largest U.S.-Asia market without a non-stop, at 700 PDEW and growing at a quick pace, especially to China.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25935
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:40 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 13):
LAX is obvious, but where else would they try from DFW that isn't already flown.

Nothing much. DFW-Asia is pretty much done, and AA has said as much.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 14):

fragmented market, many destinations, served very well over multiple gateways as is. not sure what one more flight adds to the picture.

Same could be said for a lot of markets that airlines later decide to enter.
a.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:54 pm

MIA-NRT is 6,462 nmi. 13:44 at Mach 0.83, so figure 14:15 or so for climb/descent factored in. But Miami is not a huge business hub for finance and engineering. It's a huge tourism hub and also a hub for medical services for the large retired population there.

MIA-MNL is unreasonable. At 8,093 nmi it's already a 17h flight without factoring in climb and descent. While there are aircraft like the 77L and A345 that can perform such a flight, doing so profitably is going to be out of the question (especially MNL when many passengers from MIA are Filipino expats going home to see family, rather than traveling on business with large expense accounts).
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:03 pm

When I pull PDEW numbers, I see 200 for Asia. Only when I pull in Middle East/ India do I see 700 PDEW, and those additional pax
are well-served with the QR service, the TK service, and the various other connecting opportunities available today. I wouldn't pull all those pax together to advocate for a flight to China/Japan/Philippines/Korea.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9913
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:11 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
MIA Asia Task Force is like if Fairbanks opened an African task force, or Maine opened an Australian task force.

None sense. Asia is a huge economic market and it's always worth pursuing it. Just because it's not a priority for AA it doesn't mean that there isn't potential. It's worth remembering that once upon a time BOS-Asia was also not worth it for AA and look at it now.

Quoting rta (Reply 9):
MIA-Asia didn't really make much sense anyway, to be honest.

Unless you forget that there's already MIA-Asia service.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 17):

When I pull PDEW numbers, I see 200 for Asia. Only when I pull in Middle East/ India do I see 700 PDEW, and those additional pax
are well-served with the QR service, the TK service, and the various other connecting opportunities available today. I wouldn't pull all those pax together to advocate for a flight to China/Japan/Philippines/Korea.

If the "700" is everything from TLV to CTS to DPS, then it's far too broad to be a useful metric. And more importantly, what is the PDEW of MIA-NRT itself ?

Hypothetically, we assume a flight has 250 seats ... can local MIA-TYO O&D even fill 25 out of those 250 ? And if not, would launching it at 4x weekly make it successful or not ? Those are the key questions that AA and JL must answer with *realistic* assumptions of traffic growth and revenue, not just pie-in-the-sky guesstimates like "if we add the entire Florida and Lat Am to the entire Asia, and oil stays at $30, and we have the A350XWB PIP'ed 3 times, and China continues posting 7% GDP growth every year, then the flight will work".
 
ScottB
Posts: 6725
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:17 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 14):
fragmented market, many destinations, served very well over multiple gateways as is. not sure what one more flight adds to the picture.

Also, AA probably already "owns" much of that traffic thanks to its frequent flyer base in the region, so adding MIA-NRT just takes traffic away from their existing services.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:26 pm

it sounds like AA has already done this analysis, based on the article. And yes, AA already serves the MIA and Latin markets to / from Asia very well through its other hubs.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 19):
Hypothetically, we assume a flight has 250 seats ... can local MIA-TYO O&D even fill 25 out of those 250 ? And if not, would launching it at 4x weekly make it successful or not ? Those are the key questions that AA and JL must answer with *realistic* assumptions of traffic growth and revenue, not just pie-in-the-sky guesstimates like "if we add the entire Florida and Lat Am to the entire Asia, and oil stays at $30, and we have the A350XWB PIP'ed 3 times, and China continues posting 7% GDP growth every year, then the flight will work".
 
winginit
Posts: 2622
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:37 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Now this is interesting; MIA officials and local business leaders established "MIA Asia Task Force".

"MIA Asia Task Force" will be meeting with airlines in Asia to push for service. A trip to China is scheduled for April 11-23.

They are currently targeting: Japan Airlines, China Airlines, Asiana Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, All Nippon Airways, Cathay Pacific, Air China, Korean Air, EVA Air and Hainan Airlines.

How is establishing a 'task force' any different from what I'm guessing MIA has been doing for the past decade in their pursuit of Asian nonstop service?

'Oh well we were pursuing the service, but now we really mean it! Look! a task force! we mean business!'
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5955
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:44 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 19):
If the "700" is everything from TLV to CTS to DPS, then it's far too broad to be a useful metric. And more importantly, what is the PDEW of MIA-NRT itself ?

If I recall correctly, MCO-NRT is larger than MIA-NRT. I want to say it was around 30-35 PDEW. MCO-NRT was closer to 55-60 PDEW.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6089
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:28 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 23):
If I recall correctly, MCO-NRT is larger than MIA-NRT

It is.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
RemoFlyer
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:34 pm

MIA NRT is 7435 miles, DFW PVG is 7342 miles and AA flies that easily with a 788 - i.e. if an airline wanted to they could easily fly a 788 on that route.
 
AABB777
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:05 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:57 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):

It should be noted that:

Quote:
the Asian city with the highest demand to and from Miami is Manilla, but the route is not considered viable for economic and technical reasons.


Most of the MNL-MIA traffic are cruise line employees being flown to MIA to work on a ship. Currently, QR is getting a lot of this business.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 683
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:08 am

If one had to put $10 down on which happens first on AA, which does one bet on: Tokyo or Johannesburg?
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2636
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 27):
If one had to put $10 down on which happens first on AA, which does one bet on: Tokyo or Johannesburg?

I'd bet on JNB and I would also bet on AA converting some of their A359 orders
to the ULR configuration to handle such a route
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:30 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 24):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 23):
If I recall correctly, MCO-NRT is larger than MIA-NRT

It is.

The I-4 corridor (Tampa to Orlando) actually has a much larger Asian population than South Florida, with large numbers of Koreans and Vietnamese residents, along with the popularity of the Mouse for tourists. That being said, I don't see it being the sort that will demand non stop travel. TPA, and especially MCO, have plentiful flights to Asian gateway hubs, including UA's growing operation at SFO. Much of East Asia is already one or two stop from Central Florida. I don't see travelers in this region favoring a short backtrack flight (or long drive) to MIA to then catch a long haul to Japan to then connect onward over a connection in SFO, SEA, ORD, LAX, DFW, JFK, EWR, DEN, or ATL (all cities I can think of that connect to both MCO and a non stop Asia flight).
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25935
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:42 am

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 29):
The I-4 corridor (Tampa to Orlando) actually has a much larger Asian population than South Florida, with large numbers of Koreans and Vietnamese residents, along with the popularity of the Mouse for tourists.

That is not true, and the largest Asian community in Florida is in Fort Lauderdale.
a.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:48 am

Would MIA be able to offer some other Central/South American/Mexico destinations to/from Asia

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 28):

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 27):
If one had to put $10 down on which happens first on AA, which does one bet on: Tokyo or Johannesburg?

I'd bet on JNB and I would also bet on AA converting some of their A359 orders
to the ULR configuration to handle such a route

IMHO AA really isn't the type of carrier really to try those ULR-configured planes. IMHO their best bet was the A358XWB which ostensibly isn't happening anymore.
"Up the Irons!"
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:01 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):

Who's in FLL ? East Asians, Indians, or Jews ? Let's please exclude TLV bound traffic from this discussion because no person in their sound mind would be flying MIA-NRT-TLV other than those with far too time on their hands.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:17 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):
That is not true, and the largest Asian community in Florida is in Fort Lauderdale.

You are correct if you look at one county. Broward does have the most. However, Orange and Hillsborough combined (note I said I-4 corridor) have about the same number as Miami-Dade and Broward. Throw in Orlando and Tampa's sprawl and Polk, Seminole, and Pinellas counties all would be a part of that I-4 travel corridor that add to the Asian population numbers that favor MCO or TPA. Jacksonville-Duvall also has a substantial Asian population, and JAX only has 1 stop TPAC service through ATL and ORD. non stop service to the main pacific gateways at LAX and SFO from TPA and JAX is either limited (TPA-LAX has only one early morning flight from AA and DL each) or non existent (TPA-SFO and JAX-SFO/LAX), meaning MCO would be the closest airport for both those communities.
 
MCOGVADCA
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:05 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:24 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Hainan Airlines

There's a local rumor that Hainan is looking at Florida, both MIA and MCO. Personally, I'm hoping for the triangle, as that's the only way MCO is seeing East Asian service any time soon, but I don't see that as likely. As long as there's no economic collapse in China, I'd bet on MIA getting China service (3-4x weekly) by 2018. Given the expansion we're seeing by Chinese carriers to the US, it's certainly feasible; hell, I'd put my long-term faith in the viability of PEK-MIA over headscratchers like TAO-SFO.
18 months: pvg sea lax mco lgw stn rak cmn saw tlv ltn gva mrs lys lhr mia gig jfk sof pmi kut ktw nce fni dfw bsl oak
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3309
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:52 am

At the end of the day, MIA has a great location for some routes but Asia is not in its sweet spot.

A carrier will likely start a MIA-East Asia route at some stage, but its not something that will likely be a big market to try and tap into.

Given the ME3 context, even EK and EY are in no rush to fly to join QR at MIA, and that likely has greater potential with the Indian market in play.

Some cites will always either be disadvantaged by geography or have less market potential to certain destinations.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1590
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:58 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
Unless you forget that there's already MIA-Asia service.

Not to be stupid, but who flies from Asia to Miami?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5955
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:13 am

Ironically, Central Florida (Tampa and Orlando metro areas) has a larger Asian population than South Florida (Miami/Fort Lauderdale/West Palm Beach/Port St. Lucie). The biggest differences are that Central Florida has a much larger Korean and Vietnamese population than South Florida. South Florida has a larger Filipino population.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:24 am

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 36):

Really stretching it by lumping MIA-DOH in that category
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25935
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Who's in FLL ? East Asians, Indians, or Jews ? Let's please exclude TLV bound traffic from this discussion because no person in their sound mind would be flying MIA-NRT-TLV other than those with far too time on their hands.

Chinese and Filipino. And nobody is including TLV in this discussion except perhaps you.

Broward has the largest Asian community in Florida, followed by Orange.

And while a large chunk of Florida-Manila traffic is indeed cruise ship, there is nonetheless a large and growing Filipino community throughout the entire state.

[Edited 2016-04-11 20:48:38]
a.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:16 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):

Chinese and Filipino. And nobody is including TLV in this discussion except perhaps you.


So just for sh!ts and giggles, I plugged the following routes into GC Map: MIA-TLV-NRT, MIA-TLV-MNL, MIA-NRT-TLV, and MIA-MNL-TLV. Because, who knows? Maybe LY will decide to compete against the ME3 and TLV will become a major international transfer hub between Florida and Asia.      

Times are calculated at M=0.82 and do not take climb/ascent into account.

2 segment path:
MIA TLV 050° (NE) 057° (NE) 5,738 nm 12:03
TLV NRT 052° (NE) 047° (NE) 4,980 nm 10:27
10,718 nm 22:30

2 segment path:
MIA TLV 050° (NE) 057° (NE) 5,738 nm 12:03
TLV MNL 079° (E) 075° (E) 4,759 nm 9:59
10,497 nm 22:02

2 segment path:
MIA NRT 326° (NW) 333° (NW) 6,462 nm 13:34
NRT TLV 305° (NW) 312° (NW) 4,980 nm 10:27
11,442 nm 24:01

2 segment path:
MIA MNL 331° (NW) 337° (NW) 8,093 nm 16:59
MNL TLV 300° (NW) 302° (NW) 4,759 nm 9:59
12,852 nm 26:59

[Edited 2016-04-11 21:18:19]
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
ualcsr
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:02 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
But Miami is not a huge business hub for finance and engineering. It's a huge tourism hub and also a hub for medical services for the large retired population there.

Actually, Miami is a big business hub for Latin American finance. And there is no "large retired population" here. In Florida, if you want large retirement communities, go to the southwest coast and a few other places but not Miami.
 
User avatar
rotating14
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:54 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:04 am

Quoting UALCSR (Reply 41):
Actually, Miami is a big business hub for Latin American finance. And there is no "large retired population" here. In Florida, if you want large retirement communities, go to the southwest coast and a few other places but not Miami.

Correct, Naples and Fort Myers are hotbeds for the retired. However, there are retired populations throughout Miami, Key West, Jupiter, Port St Lucie and Ft Lauderdale. Retirement is mentioned as much in these places because there's more headline grabbing data than the new bingo hall and the next president of Boca Del Vista. (Seinfeld reference)
 
xdlx
Posts: 945
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:29 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:12 am

What a difference a few decades make. Now PDEW and metrics make the case study of the route.
Back in the days of Trippe, Rickenbacker. Just announce it and go, pax WILL fly if WE take them!
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):

Yet you've never properly defined how wide a net you've casted when you quoted that 700 PDEW figure. "Asia" is a useless term in this context if you include everything from BEY to SHE to CGK.
 
User avatar
atypical
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:28 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:00 pm

Quoting UALCSR (Reply 41):
Actually, Miami is a big business hub for Latin American finance. And there is no "large retired population" here. In Florida, if you want large retirement communities, go to the southwest coast and a few other places but not Miami.

Actually there are large retirement communities in the Miami area. Doesn't Cemetery Village have 80,000 just between Deerfield and Delray? Keep in mind what the subject here is, MIA-Asia. So most people are approaching the subject from the MIA catchment area. For Asia flights the catchment easily extends up through Palm Beach County. If one person talks city limits and the other catchment then at best the conversation goes into a circle. And please don't get me wrong, I am not saying the Miami catchment is that large for everything. For something like NYC flights the MIA catchment probably extends to Opa Locka as the north boundary sharing 50/50 with FLL.
 
miaintl
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:45 pm

Finnair is now the best option to fly from MiA to East Asia. Would not be surprised if the flight is mostly filled with East Asian traffic.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:51 pm

Is MIA intent on a direct flight?

That seems like asking a bit too much...

Would they be happy with a tag-along? Say, via the West coast or Canada?
I think that might be a bit more realistic.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
thomacf
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:11 am

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:51 pm

Miami needs this Asian service fast. It's been all over South Florida news. The main reason REAL ESTATE and that's all. The market is over supplied again and many projects are already being cancelled or scaled down. Latin American buyers have dried up with the state of their economies, the Russian market as well with the crash of the ruble and developers want cash buyers that will put down 30%-50% before they break ground. The weak dollar isn't helping either so it's hurting buyers from the EU as well. American's buy real estate differently and borrow more which is not what developers are looking for. The NYC market which is the largest US purchaser of Miami real estate can't assume all the supply and these folks are looking longer term for a second residents, not an investment property that they can flip or simply rent like many foreign owners. Latin American buyers are also now discovering other parts of Florida like FLL and Palm Beach which isn't helping matters. Miami needs to attract a larger market and that is the far East. Plain and simple. If you're not familiar with the E5 program, its another way Miami developers are trying to tap the Chinese market to drive development and this program is challenged by those needing to travel back/forth to China. There is also talk of Miami needing to develop a Chinatown district which it lacks.

They need a large population with people that will pay cash and it's the only market really outside of the Middle East that fits this profile. Yes the economy of China is not great, but there is still a large growing middle class that has been buying real estate on the West Coast of the US and Vancouver for quite some time. Miami wants this and knows it has been missing out. The city is becoming desperate for these flights with talks of another real estate bubble potentially bursting soon...
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5955
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: American Airlines Not Interested In MIA-Asia

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:54 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 46):
Would not be surprised if the flight is mostly filled with East Asian traffic.

No way. That flight is full of vacationing Finns. You average number of people traveling to Asia on that flight is between 0 and 5.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos