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LX8626
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:42 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:18 am

HB-JBF arrived home in ZRH yesterday 09.03.2017 at 19:41 (LT) and is planned to have first commercial service today as LX2254 to BUD.
 
JulietteBravo
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:25 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:20 am

SWISS seams quite satisfied to report an operative profit of CHF 429 Mio (about € 400 Mio.) for 2016.

The major investments announced are (within next 2 years):
- new 1st Class/Hon departure Lounge (checkin, restaurant, Showers, Grappa bar and a security channel in a very short way to the limousine service to docks (literally like a 1st/Hon terminal)
- new lounge at Terminal A for C class and Sen (at same location as old lounge)
- Refurbishment of last 5 A343
- wlan on whole fleet lh and sh
- 5 CS300 more instead of CS100 (10 CS1, 20 CS3)
 
DALCE
Posts: 2033
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:09 am

Airbus 321-200 // HB-ION has been retrofitted with sharklets.
 
kimimm19
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:09 am

An article from the Tagesanzeiger, talking about Swiss getting closer to adopting BOB service like BA, SAS, and Iberia (as well as the lost cost carriers) in intra-european flights. It also touches on that factors like more lost cost competition in Zurich, a strong Swiss Franc CHF, and slowly rising oil prices are showing in their finances.

Even less incentive for passengers traveling to Switzerland to choose the much more expensive Swiss as nothing would really differentiate them from their low cost rivals anymore.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtschaft/ ... y/19914043
 
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SR380
Posts: 875
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:59 pm

Skywork Airlines is looking at Sukhoi Superjet 100 to replace both Dornier and Saab aircrafts. What are your thoughts? Isn't a bit big for SX operations?

Link in German: https://m.20min.ch/finance/news/story/10806083
 
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SR380
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:57 pm

Swiss will start to introduce CS100 in LSGG next month: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... sformation

They also confirm the transfert to lager CS300:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... r-revision
 
dodoma
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:00 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:07 am

SR380 wrote:
Swiss will start to introduce CS100 in LSGG next month: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... sformation

They also confirm the transfert to lager CS300:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... r-revision


Actually they already started ops. See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hb-jbc
 
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SR380
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:54 am

dodoma wrote:
SR380 wrote:
Swiss will start to introduce CS100 in LSGG next month: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... sformation

They also confirm the transfert to lager CS300:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... r-revision


Actually they already started ops. See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hb-jbc


Sorry post wasn't clear enough. I will start to refleet aircraft based in Geneva using Cs100. The ones flying are based in Zurich if I am by mistaken
 
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mafaky
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:46 am

Is there anyone who may assist me in reaching the mishap reports of the late SWISSAIR?

I did send a message to SWISS about it, but received no response, so far.

I'm looking for the mishap reports of a Swissair flight between Geneva and New York, that took place sometime during August (maybe July), 1959. The aircraft operated was either a DC-6B or DC-7C (Swissair had both types in operation at that time...)

I was on that particular flight. It was my very first flight (let alone it be my first transoceanic ER flight) ever, so it has a rather unforgettable part in my memories.

Thank you.
 
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SR380
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:05 am

mafaky wrote:
Is there anyone who may assist me in reaching the mishap reports of the late SWISSAIR?

I did send a message to SWISS about it, but received no response, so far.

I'm looking for the mishap reports of a Swissair fglight between Geneva and New York, that took place sometime during August (maybe July), 1959. The aircraft operated was either a DC-6B or DC-7C (Swissair had both types in operation at that time...)

I was on that particular flight. It was my very first flight (let alone it be my first transoceanic ER flight) ever, so it has a rather unforgettable part in my memories.

Thank you.


As Swiss claim they have nothing to do with Swissair (and this makes me laugh), I doubt you'll have an answer. Try to contact the webmaster of https://www.sr692.com it's the most complet website I know about our only national airline!
 
phofmannsair
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:28 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:24 pm

According to Swiss on Twitter, their first BCS3 will be registered HB-JCA:
https://twitter.com/FlySWISS/status/847093033262833665

On another side, SWISS is aking the "Romands" (french speakers of Switzerland) to help them design HB-JCA's livery (kind of Welch "Faces of SWISS")
http://www.swiss-monavion.ch/

Regards,

Patrick.
 
DALCE
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:31 am

HB-JNH expected to arrive ZRH tomorrowmorning in ZRH as LX7531/31 ex PAE.
 
DALCE
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:40 am

and the next BCS1, which is HB-JBG is scheduled to arrive tomorrow aswell, albeit in the late afternoon as flight LX5201/01 ex YMX.
 
JulietteBravo
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:24 pm

People's Viennaline (PE) "shortest international flight" will be discontinued after april 14 after only a few months. On their routing ACH-FDH-CGN, this short hop takes off at ACH St.Gallen Altenrhein, Switzerland - flying over Lake of Constance - to land only 8 min later at FDH Friedrichshafen, Germany.

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/ostschweiz/ ... t-13793409 sorry in german


PE operates mainly ACH-Vienna VIE up 4 daily.
 
JulietteBravo
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:32 pm

DALCE wrote:
and the next BCS1, which is HB-JBG is scheduled to arrive tomorrow aswell, albeit in the late afternoon as flight LX5201/01 ex YMX.


Great to know - thank you!
Looking forward to the first BCS3, HB-JCA.
 
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LX8626
Posts: 96
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:10 am

DALCE wrote:
and the next BCS1, which is HB-JBG is scheduled to arrive tomorrow aswell, albeit in the late afternoon as flight LX5201/01 ex YMX.


No, not really.
HB-JBG is planned to arrive in the evening of the 2nd of April.
 
ALAfly
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:32 am

Did HB-JBG arrive yesterday in ZRH? Could not find anything on FR.
 
LSZH34
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:57 am

ALAfly wrote:
Did HB-JBG arrive yesterday in ZRH? Could not find anything on FR.


HB-JBG just departed YMX bound for ZRH right now. ETA 20:15LT
 
DALCE
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:17 am

HB-JBG's flight schedules was pushed back to arrival APR 03 indeed.
 
apu99
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:29 am

Does anyone know what happened to CS100 HB-JBC in Nice, France? It was supposed to depart Nice to Zurich on March 31, but the flight (LX569) was cancelled. It finally departed Nice to Zurich yesterday (April 2) using flight number LX5169 - I'm assuming this is a ferry flight.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lx5169

Thanks
 
Someone83
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:09 am

DALCE wrote:
HB-JBG's flight schedules was pushed back to arrival APR 03 indeed.


Now showing at Skyliner, so seems a flightplan has been filed

Bombardier CS 100 50016 HB-JBG Swiss International delivery 03apr17 YMX-ZRH ex C-FOYB
 
DALCE
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:56 pm

Are HB-IYY & HB-IYW withdrawn from use? They both have been inactive since 03APR with no schedules planned until at least 03MAY.
 
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LX8626
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:52 am

It is Phase-Out Month at SWISS this April.
Six (6) aircraft leaving the fleet this month.

IJX already at BTS for painting, will come back to ZRH on 14.04. for final work.
IYY already neutralized, will leave in the next days.
IYW already neutralized, will leave in the next days.
JMK will have her last departure out of ZRH to JNB on 22.04. and will be phased out after arrival on the 24.04. - She will leave ZRH most likely on the 27.04. forever.
JMM will have her last departure out of ZRH to JNB on 30.04. and will be phased out after arrival on the 02.05. - She will leave ZRH most likely on the first days of May forever.
IYQ is planned to have her last flight on the 29.04.
 
DALCE
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:21 am

Thanks for the headsup, that really is a busy month :)
 
kimimm19
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:13 am

Does anyone have an idea why there was a British Airways 767 at Zurich yesterday in the early evening? Is this a holiday special? I have never seen a BA 767 at ZRH before which is why I'm curious...
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:44 am

Hey, I'm flying in and then out of Zurich next week and have a good bit of time before the trip back. Flying UA back out of terminal E. I hear there are two aviation observation decks at the airport on the air-side post security on decks B & E. I assume when they are calling this B &E decks, it is referring to terminals B & E? The site says E Deck is accessible via a shuttle bus, but if I am flying out of terminal E, can I access the observation deck from the intl terminal anyway? I've never been to this airport and do not know the layout or really how to navigate this one.

https://www.zurich-airport.com/passengers-and-visitors/shopping-and-attractions/excursions-at-the-airport/observation-decks
 
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glen
Posts: 364
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:41 pm

Blimpie wrote:
Hey, I'm flying in and then out of Zurich next week and have a good bit of time before the trip back. Flying UA back out of terminal E. I hear there are two aviation observation decks at the airport on the air-side post security on decks B & E. I assume when they are calling this B &E decks, it is referring to terminals B & E? The site says E Deck is accessible via a shuttle bus, but if I am flying out of terminal E, can I access the observation deck from the intl terminal anyway? I've never been to this airport and do not know the layout or really how to navigate this one.

https://www.zurich-airport.com/passengers-and-visitors/shopping-and-attractions/excursions-at-the-airport/observation-decks



The observation decks are only accessible from landside (with its own security checkpoint), which means if you are in transit you have to leave the airside part of the airport. I'm not sure about the procedures in transit, but before a US-flight you will have pass through border control anyway.
I assume, if you are arriving from a Schengen country (basically all EU countries except United Kingdom) it should be no problem to leave airside and re-enter as long as you have a valid boarding pass and documents. However if you are arriving from a non-Schengen country, entry into Switzerland during transit may be more complicated.
 
MoonC
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:52 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Does anyone have an idea why there was a British Airways 767 at Zurich yesterday in the early evening? Is this a holiday special? I have never seen a BA 767 at ZRH before which is why I'm curious...


New, seasonal upgrade.
 
MoonC
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:52 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Does anyone have an idea why there was a British Airways 767 at Zurich yesterday in the early evening? Is this a holiday special? I have never seen a BA 767 at ZRH before which is why I'm curious...


New, seasonal upgrade.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:50 pm

glen wrote:
Blimpie wrote:
Hey, I'm flying in and then out of Zurich next week and have a good bit of time before the trip back. Flying UA back out of terminal E. I hear there are two aviation observation decks at the airport on the air-side post security on decks B & E. I assume when they are calling this B &E decks, it is referring to terminals B & E? The site says E Deck is accessible via a shuttle bus, but if I am flying out of terminal E, can I access the observation deck from the intl terminal anyway? I've never been to this airport and do not know the layout or really how to navigate this one.

https://www.zurich-airport.com/passengers-and-visitors/shopping-and-attractions/excursions-at-the-airport/observation-decks



The observation decks are only accessible from landside (with its own security checkpoint), which means if you are in transit you have to leave the airside part of the airport. I'm not sure about the procedures in transit, but before a US-flight you will have pass through border control anyway.
I assume, if you are arriving from a Schengen country (basically all EU countries except United Kingdom) it should be no problem to leave airside and re-enter as long as you have a valid boarding pass and documents. However if you are arriving from a non-Schengen country, entry into Switzerland during transit may be more complicated.


I'll actually be in Switzerland for a week and was going to go to the observation deck before my flight out of concourse E. So, it sounds like I will have to go through security, go to the observation deck, then when I leave, will have to go through security a second time I presume to get to the E-gates, which I suppose is not a big deal, and I doubt that if the observation deck has its own security checkpoint, it probably would not be very crowded/busy.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:33 am

What about SR on ZRH-IAH? AA moved ORD-ZRH and did well until SR went to *.
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 322
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:58 pm

Passenger statistics from the top 3 Swiss airports for March 17 are out:

ZRH
March 2017: 2,195,583 +6.4% vs Mar16
Q1 2017: 6,038,802 +7.3% vs Q1 2016

GVA
March 2017: 1,642,842 +4.2% vs Mar16
Q1 2017: 4,484,348 +3.3% vs Q1 2016

BSL
March 2017: 564,650 +5.0% vs Mar16
Q1 2017: 1,462,618 +3.0% vs Q1 2016

Some notes:
Growth at ZRH is mainly due to increased capacity from LX (switch from A343 to B77W and from RJ100 to CS100) as well as due to increased number of flights from LCCs , notably EZY and VY. Growth is likely to remain above 5% for the rest of 2017 with new destinations & frequencies being added by LX, WK, EZY, CA, VY, GM etc.

Q1 is GVA's strongest quarter of the year (incoming ski tourism), which means that the gap between ZRH and GVA is smaller in Q1 than for the rest of the year. GVA continues to grow mainly due to upgauges and increased frequencies by EZY (A320 vs. A319) as well as increased frequencies from other airlines. Growth is likely to continue at 3 to 5 per cent for the rest of the year with new destinations being added by Air Baltic (Riga), Air Mauritius, EZY (Calvi, Tivat), Etihad Regional (Brest) etc.

BSL has seen growth rates decline steadily due to little to no further expansion by EZY. However, the loss of Air Berlin (1 A320 was based at BSL) has been mostly compensated by other airlines (Niki, Eurowings, Small Planet) and EZY will add a couple of destinations in S17 (Biarritz, Dubrovnik). Furthermore, Wizzair will add Osijek as a new destination and will upgrade its flights to OTP, SOF and WAW from A320 to A321.

It has been reported this week by airlineroute and by flightglobal that Hainan Air has requested traffic rights to fly from PVG to ZRH 4x weekly starting in November 17. These flights would be operated by the 787. It would be a comeback for Hainan, which from 2011 to 2013 operated PEK-ZRH with three to four weekly flights with the A330-200.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/hainan-airlines-seeks-rights-on-four-international-r-436105/
 
DALCE
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:41 pm

LX8626 wrote:
JMK will have her last departure out of ZRH to JNB on 22.04. and will be phased out after arrival on the 24.04. - She will leave ZRH most likely on the 27.04. forever.
.



Will be ferried to ENS/EHTW on the 27th for parting out. Cockpit section will be preserved and rebuilt as A330-simulator.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:28 pm

Today, Germania flight GM6462 (321, HB-JOI) diverted on its flight from Geneva to Pristina to Zurich. Does anybody have some information?


David
 
THY748i
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:14 am

I know, I,ve asked this before but does anyone have specific knowledge about the route schedule of the last remaining Avrojets at LX?
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 322
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:42 pm

As promised in another thread, here are the top 15 routes by total passengers from each of the three largest Swiss airports in 2016:

From ZRH:
Destination | Pax enplaned | yty growth
London Heathrow 550'739 3%
Berlin Tegel 503'063 2%
Wien 492'968 3%
Düsseldorf 403'759 9%
Amsterdam Schiphol 402'922 5%
Frankfurt International 330'336 6%
Paris Charles De Gaulle 322'188 -3%
Barcelona 318'050 5%
Hamburg Fuhlsbüttel 300'526 14%
Madrid Barajas 290'174 19%
Genève Cointrin 277'344 13%
Palma de Mallorca 258'661 12%
Dubai 254'481 6%
Istanbul 244'841 -6%
Athens 229'458 6%

From GVA:
Destination | Pax enplaned | yty growth
London Heathrow 526'830 3%
London Gatwick 419'107 0%
Paris Charles De Gaulle 359'148 2%
Amsterdam Schiphol 331'499 2%
Barcelona 323'340 16%
Porto 308'773 16%
Zürich Kloten 289'308 14%
Lisboa 276'850 6%
Brussels National 270'010 -5%
Madrid Barajas 267'526 4%
Frankfurt International 210'197 9%
Nice 187'088 -11%
Roma Fiumicino 176'502 7%
Paris Orly 153'476 3%
London Luton 134'478 2%

From BSL
Destination | Pax enplaned | yty growth
Berlin Schönfeld 217'504 -2%
Amsterdam Schiphol 206'986 10%
Barcelona 170'492 22%
Palma de Mallorca 155'949 6%
London Gatwick 135'895 0%
London Heathrow 126'362 3%
Hamburg Fuhlsbüttel 113'642 -4%
Pristina 105'338 -2%
Porto 103'998 14%
Nice 87'752 3%
Paris Charles De Gaulle 82'424 -2%
München Franz Joseph Strauss 76'625 9%
Frankfurt International 76'381 -1%
Istanbul 72'896 -7%
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen 70'338 4%

Data ist taken from the annual passenger statistics provided by the Swiss Federal Bureau of statistics (link in German):
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/st ... rkehr.html
 
hynithuchi
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:28 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:57 pm

Thank you for this breakdown of enplaned passengers. 2 figures strike me: total number of passengers GVA/LON ( excluding LCY/SEN/STN ) is nearly up to 1 100 000 passengers which is remarkable compared with ZRH passenger ( although only LHR makes it into the top 15 at ZRH ). The second figure that amazes me is 176 000 passengers GVA/FCO and LX is incapable of operating even 1 profitable flight bertween the 2 cities !
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:23 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
Thank you for this breakdown of enplaned passengers. 2 figures strike me: total number of passengers GVA/LON ( excluding LCY/SEN/STN ) is nearly up to 1 100 000 passengers which is remarkable compared with ZRH passenger ( although only LHR makes it into the top 15 at ZRH ). The second figure that amazes me is 176 000 passengers GVA/FCO and LX is incapable of operating even 1 profitable flight bertween the 2 cities !


Total passengers to London from ZRH:
London Luton 65'356
London Heathrow 550'739
London City 196'360
London Gatwick 76'421
Total: 886'876

Total passengers to London from GVA:
London City 110'460
London Heathrow 526'830
London Luton 134'478
London Stansted 31'043
London Gatwick 419'107
Total: 1'221'918

Imo, business ties between the two cities and London are probably about equal (ZRH due to the financial industry and GVA due to multinational companies, UN and trading companies). However, GVA still serves as the primary arrival airport of British ski tourists, a majority of which arrive from the greater London area. All in all, not very surprising that passenger volume from GVA far exceeds the one out of ZRH. One also has to remember that ZRH shares some part of its catchment area with BSL (most importantly Bern, Solothurn, Aargau and Basel itself). An additional 366k passengers fly to London from BSL each year:

Total passengers to London from GVA:
London Gatwick 135'895
London Heathrow 126'362
London Stansted 55'670
London Luton 39'779
London City 9'023
Total: 366'729

With regards to FCO I share your opinion. A real pity how bad scheduling and poor local management (according to several accounts from GVA insiders) have put LX into this position at GVA. MAD, NCE and BCN are other routes that used to be served with much higher frequency, but are now merely served once daily. In the case of FCO, I fully expect LX to jump on board if AZ folds.
 
hynithuchi
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:28 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 am

I quite agree with your comments with LX local management and their scheduling department, I just wonder how much fredom they have when it comes down to decision making ? As for the reduced frequencies, I understand that they had to optimize their aircraft utilisation to achieve their goal set in "Geneva Reload " . I can't remember how many frames they expect to base at GVA, but when I see what U2 can do with their 13 ( soon 14 ) aircraft, LX seems to underutilise their capacity. Without looking too much into their schedule, it seems that beside ZRH and the LON market, no other destination has more than 1 daily flight at the most.
 
ALAfly
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:19 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri May 05, 2017 12:06 pm

As more C100 and soon C300 will join LX fleet, does somebody know if they will have a Star livery?
 
DALCE
Posts: 2033
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri May 05, 2017 12:31 pm

HB-JMM is planned to leave for EGDX / St. Athan on may 10th for storage/parting out.
 
ALAfly
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:19 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Fri May 05, 2017 5:46 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
DALCE wrote:
HB-JMM is planned to leave for EGDX / St. Athan on may 10th for storage/parting out.


Saw JMM ready with no cross and no titles on a Tango stand today.
 
pmartin
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:33 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 9:59 am

PhilInBRN wrote:
As promised in another thread, here are the top 15 routes by total passengers from each of the three largest Swiss airports in 2016:

From ZRH:
Destination | Pax enplaned | yty growth
London Heathrow 550'739 3%
Berlin Tegel 503'063 2%
Wien 492'968 3%
Düsseldorf 403'759 9%
Amsterdam Schiphol 402'922 5%
Frankfurt International 330'336 6%
Paris Charles De Gaulle 322'188 -3%
Barcelona 318'050 5%
Hamburg Fuhlsbüttel 300'526 14%
Madrid Barajas 290'174 19%
Genève Cointrin 277'344 13%
Palma de Mallorca 258'661 12%
Dubai 254'481 6%
Istanbul 244'841 -6%
Athens 229'458 6%

From GVA:
Destination | Pax enplaned | yty growth
London Heathrow 526'830 3%
London Gatwick 419'107 0%
Paris Charles De Gaulle 359'148 2%
Amsterdam Schiphol 331'499 2%
Barcelona 323'340 16%
Porto 308'773 16%
Zürich Kloten 289'308 14%
Lisboa 276'850 6%
Brussels National 270'010 -5%
Madrid Barajas 267'526 4%
Frankfurt International 210'197 9%
Nice 187'088 -11%
Roma Fiumicino 176'502 7%
Paris Orly 153'476 3%
London Luton 134'478 2%

From BSL
Destination | Pax enplaned | yty growth
Berlin Schönfeld 217'504 -2%
Amsterdam Schiphol 206'986 10%
Barcelona 170'492 22%
Palma de Mallorca 155'949 6%
London Gatwick 135'895 0%
London Heathrow 126'362 3%
Hamburg Fuhlsbüttel 113'642 -4%
Pristina 105'338 -2%
Porto 103'998 14%
Nice 87'752 3%
Paris Charles De Gaulle 82'424 -2%
München Franz Joseph Strauss 76'625 9%
Frankfurt International 76'381 -1%
Istanbul 72'896 -7%
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen 70'338 4%

Data ist taken from the annual passenger statistics provided by the Swiss Federal Bureau of statistics (link in German):
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/st ... rkehr.html


These figures are for departure PAX only. You have to more or less double them to get to the traffic figure.

For GVA, for example, the reported figures for 2016 in the annual report are:
London (LHR) 1'041'037
London (LGW) 816'085
Paris (CDG) 724'986
Amsterdam (AMS) 663'199
Barcelona (BCN) 633'673
Etc.
 
runway23
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 10:57 am

PhilInBRN wrote:
hynithuchi wrote:
Thank you for this breakdown of enplaned passengers. 2 figures strike me: total number of passengers GVA/LON ( excluding LCY/SEN/STN ) is nearly up to 1 100 000 passengers which is remarkable compared with ZRH passenger ( although only LHR makes it into the top 15 at ZRH ). The second figure that amazes me is 176 000 passengers GVA/FCO and LX is incapable of operating even 1 profitable flight bertween the 2 cities !


Total passengers to London from ZRH:
London Luton 65'356
London Heathrow 550'739
London City 196'360
London Gatwick 76'421
Total: 886'876

Total passengers to London from GVA:
London City 110'460
London Heathrow 526'830
London Luton 134'478
London Stansted 31'043
London Gatwick 419'107
Total: 1'221'918

Imo, business ties between the two cities and London are probably about equal (ZRH due to the financial industry and GVA due to multinational companies, UN and trading companies). However, GVA still serves as the primary arrival airport of British ski tourists, a majority of which arrive from the greater London area. All in all, not very surprising that passenger volume from GVA far exceeds the one out of ZRH. One also has to remember that ZRH shares some part of its catchment area with BSL (most importantly Bern, Solothurn, Aargau and Basel itself). An additional 366k passengers fly to London from BSL each year:


You're missing Southend from Geneva in the figures.

Plus, you can add BOH or SOU, not too far from London which have flights to Geneva but not Zurich. Talking about BSL/ZRH sharing similar catchment areas, you could easily say the same for GVA with CMF, SIR and to a lesser extent GNB - all of which had flights to London this winter. Someone living in Bern could just as easily fly out of ZRH, BSL or GVA - the time difference between the three being fairly similar.

Also, not mentioning that GVA has very strong banking ties to London is a glaring oversight. There's just as much banking demand and traffic on LON-GVA than LON-ZRH.
 
runway23
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 11:12 am

hynithuchi wrote:
I quite agree with your comments with LX local management and their scheduling department, I just wonder how much fredom they have when it comes down to decision making ? As for the reduced frequencies, I understand that they had to optimize their aircraft utilisation to achieve their goal set in "Geneva Reload " . I can't remember how many frames they expect to base at GVA, but when I see what U2 can do with their 13 ( soon 14 ) aircraft, LX seems to underutilise their capacity. Without looking too much into their schedule, it seems that beside ZRH and the LON market, no other destination has more than 1 daily flight at the most.


You can't really compare like for like here. EZS have 15 aircraft based in GVA, currently LX have 6 based (+2 ZRH night stops). Additionally, over the past few years U2 have increasingly flown a lot more flights through GVA from other bases, a couple also in W patterns, mainly due to the fact that EZS based aircraft have a higher cost base than EZY aircraft. As an example, today EZY has 27 departures ex-GVA, EZS 49. Put those two figures together and you get the equivalent of about 21-23 aircraft out of GVA. There was even a period a decade or so ago where all flights to/from GVA were EZS operated.

So it's not that strange to see LX with a horrible schedule, they operate roughly half the destinations U2 operate with 4 times less aircraft. IMHO, it's a clear indication of what LX's problem at GVA is: they have spread themselves out so much over many destinations that they have become irrelevant on most destinations except LHR, LCY, ZRH - the only destinations operated more than once daily).

You also have to take into account that LX operates some fairly long sectors (DME, ATH, LIS, OPO, RAK). The last three operating at a significant frequency disadvantage to U2 (and TAP to Portugal). It's somewhat surprising LX doesn't give up the last three and compete more heavily on shorter sectors (say NCE for example), or launch flights to destinations with strong business demand where it should be present (CDG, AMS are glaring examples) or business routes served by competitors with a poor schedule (eg. HAM). The decision to axe FCO was surprising - not that far away and from what I saw figure wise, it actually didn't perform that badly compared to some of their other routes.

The rest of LX's underperformance is mainly due to an erratic schedule (poor timing/hours, poor frequencies), wrong aircraft (320 being too large), poor marketing and bad yield management.
 
hynithuchi
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:28 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 11:48 am

Sorry, I had lost track of the number of LX aircraft based at GVA, but I thought they had planned up to 9 aircraft. I don't really know about CDG,AMS or HAM. When SR operated these flights way back, they served mainly as feeders for their small GVA hub ( except CDG which had a fair size of local pax but who now use EZS to ORY or the TGV ). HAM just doesn't have a potential to operate several flights ( EW cancelling their flights this month I believe ). There is for example a lot of business traffic between GVA and MIL, but whenever airlines such as Baboo or Twinjet tried it, it never worked, people preferred to use the train service from City centre to City centre instead iof flying to MXP. I could rather see LX operating to additional destinations in Eastern Europe, but with a comprehensive schedule that makes sense.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 12:19 pm

Talking about GVA, SWISS will supposedly use the GVA based flights as experiment for the food for purchase concept that will be introduced approx in the last quarter of 2017. Should the concept turn successful it will be likely introduced on the short/medium haul flights out of ZRH as well at a later stage. If you guys remember GVA was also the experiment market for the one way and "light" fares and later on the concept was adapted to all short / medium haul flights also out of ZRH. Then again SWISS will need to try anything at GVA, since if the station will not be at least breaking even by end of 2018 Eurowings will take over and SWISS will completely disappear except of the daily flight to JFK and the feeder flights to ZRH.
 
hynithuchi
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:28 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 1:29 pm

LXA340 wrote:
Talking about GVA, SWISS will supposedly use the GVA based flights as experiment for the food for purchase concept that will be introduced approx in the last quarter of 2017. Should the concept turn successful it will be likely introduced on the short/medium haul flights out of ZRH as well at a later stage. If you guys remember GVA was also the experiment market for the one way and "light" fares and later on the concept was adapted to all short / medium haul flights also out of ZRH. Then again SWISS will need to try anything at GVA, since if the station will not be at least breaking even by end of 2018 Eurowings will take over and SWISS will completely disappear except of the daily flight to JFK and the feeder flights to ZRH.

"GVA Reload" is definitely a steep challenge and I wouldn't bet by money on achieving the target. As for Eurowings, they started with flights from BER/HAM and DUS, lately MUC and planned SZG/GVA for last January. BER was closed I think 2 years ago, HAM is going in this month and MUC will already be dropped again next month ( or the other way around, source DPTS GVA )while SZG was never started. In the event of them taking over LX routes, they would definitely face an uphill struggle if they can't make their own core routes work and I can't see them succeding where LX failed.
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 2:46 pm

pmartin wrote:
These figures are for departure PAX only.


Which is why I clearly wrote "pax enplaned". BAZL only issues figures on departing passengers. As Zurich airport does not release total pax numbers for alle destinations, I used BAZL figures for better comparability between GVA and ZRH.

Regarding scheduling of LX flights at GVA, one also has to remember that LX does AFAIK not maintain a pilot base there. Sure, there might be some LX flight crew living in western Switzerland that primarily fly out of GVA. But for the most part, pilots must get to GVA from ZRH first. This surely adds to LX's cost base at GVA and increases overall complexity for scheduling.
 
runway23
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread 41

Sun May 07, 2017 3:50 pm

PhilInBRN wrote:
Regarding scheduling of LX flights at GVA, one also has to remember that LX does AFAIK not maintain a pilot base there. Sure, there might be some LX flight crew living in western Switzerland that primarily fly out of GVA. But for the most part, pilots must get to GVA from ZRH first. This surely adds to LX's cost base at GVA and increases overall complexity for scheduling.


Scheduling in GVA isn't dependant on the fact that no pilots are based in GVA, LX has a very large number of pilots overnighting in GVA every night, which also contributes to significant cost to the GVA operation. LX had planned (read: announced) to open a GVA pilot crew base a few years ago, however has quietly swept that under the carpet - probably due to the fact that the GVA operation is horrendously unprofitable and a huge mess. In fact in the last 2 years, GVA has gone from having 9 aircraft based down to 6 (although the Swiss PR department creatively counts the 2 ZRH night stops as based aircraft). LX has avoided laying FA's off by having a number of them operating GVA-JFK, which previously wasn't done.

In fact, if you look at the scheduling it is set up as:

Aircraft 1 & 2 : ZRH night-stop (0600 and 0725 departures)
Aircraft 3: LHR 0730 departure
Aircraft 4: LCY 0725 departure (right now Helvetic operated, but will go to CS1 later this year)
Aircraft 5: Night-stop at LHR (arrival back to GVA at 0935)
Aircraft 6: Arrival from ZRH at 0745, departure to ZRH at 2050. Operates GVA based flights between those times.
Aircraft 7&8: are the only ones where LX has full flexibility in scheduling.

You also have to consider that a number of aircraft operate in W patterns out of and to ZRH. For example, the first ZRH arrival at 0745 operates a flight at 0825ish to another destination, whereas the last GVA-ZRH turns from an inbound destination, in contrast with the other ZRH-GVA flights which tend to arrive from and turn back to ZRH.

As you can see, LX only have 2 frames with flexibility out of GVA (the LHR slots being set in stone and LCY not really flexible). The rest of the program is just filling in holes between gaps (eg. between the 0935 arrival of LHR and 1550 departure to LHR, or morning arrival from ZRH and evening to ZRH).

The strategy of going after volume of destinations has meant for example going from 3x daily to BCN/MAD/NCE a few years ago down to 5-6x weekly on those 3 destinations. Likewise, LX used to sell many connections on BCN-ATH-BCN or GVA-NCE-DME, which because of scheduling have greatly reduced (as these connections now only work in one direction rather than both).

The early morning departures are also very telling: LX has continually shown it doesn't know what to operate in the early morning wave. Pretty much all destinations have at one time been scheduled in the morning, yet LX continually has its worst loadfactors ex-GVA in the morning - really due to the fact that apart from London you cannot do a same-day return to any of their destinations.

Like I said before, where LX operates less than a daily flight to BCN or NCE, U2 has up to 5 flights a day. By wanting to be everywhere at once, LX has meant it has an insignificant presence ex-GVA in all markets it serves bar London.
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