Alaska Air Group Orders 30 E175s

LAXintl · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:28 pm

Its official and as expected.

30 + 33 options E175.

Delivery beginning spring 2017 running through 2019.

Operated by Horizon Air

Horizon will also remove 15 Q400s by 2018.

Alaska Air Group Places Embraer Order
http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20160412_050643.asp

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[Edited 2016-04-12 06:31:55]

commavia · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:35 pm

I'm happy to see Horizon get more flying, and Alaska planning on continuing to expand.

The 175 seems like it's been a perfect fit for the Alaska network - enabling new nonstop routes previously uneconomical with the 737.

777ER · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:36 pm

Excellent news by AS and congrats Embraer. Wonder if these E175s will replace the SkyWest E175s plus provide growth

peanuts · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:36 pm

Now that's a statement!

I'm sure there are some logistical issues involved as well for SEA airport. Is Port of Seattle keeping pace?

Not sure if AS will run into space issues at SFO. Probably.

jetmatt777 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:37 pm

Will these be in addition to, or a replacement of the SkyWest E175 fleet?

crazytoaster · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:40 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 4):

Will these be in addition to, or a replacement of the SkyWest E175 fleet?

I believe in addition too.

This is great and should open up a lot of new markets from PDX and SEA.

msp747 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:43 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
Wonder if these E175s will replace the SkyWest E175s plus provide growth

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
Will these be in addition to, or a replacement of the SkyWest E175 fleet?

From everything that has been reported, these will be in addition to the SkyWest fleet. Happy to see QX get this order. Will be nice to see them flying jets again!

wnflyguy · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:46 pm

Uses 20 or 15 of these jets to replace main line AS jets up and down the west coast.
In return now use 20 idle main line AS jets to take over core VX east west markets out of SFO and LAX.
And return VX Airbus aircraft back to lessors.

Flyguy

[Edited 2016-04-12 06:49:58]

msp747 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 5):

This is great and should open up a lot of new markets from PDX and SEA.

Part of me wonders if some of these will be used on traditional Q400 routes, like BOI to SEA, where QX is now facing competition from DL regional jets. I haven't looked up the difference in flight time, but I'm sure AS doesn't want to give DL any advantage, especially on a route that AS/QX has dominated for so long.

Okcflyer · Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:57 pm

E175 is the perfect "entry" level jet for the US market. Happy to see Alaska jumping on board!

wedgetail737 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:19 pm

Those Jungle Jets will be ideal for the longer Q400 routes like SEA-RNO, SEA-STS, SEA-FAT, SEA-SBA, etc.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:29 pm

60 VX airbus, Skywest's E175s, 30+33 E175s for Horizon, and the 737s on order (not sure how many left). Seems like AS is headed for a massive West Coast expansion OR may be heading towards establishment of a midwest/east coast hub.

ericm2031 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:30 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 10):

Those Jungle Jets will be ideal for the longer Q400 routes like SEA-RNO, SEA-STS, SEA-FAT, SEA-SBA, etc.

SEA-SBA and SEA-FAT are not Q400 routes. I'd assume those 2 stations to be OO operated E75 stations since they are already large OO stations for the other airlines

drerx7 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 11):
60 VX airbus

Could this be to help replace VX Airbus?

boeing773er · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:37 pm

These could also be in ADDITION to VX's current fleet and help them grow small-medium sized markets out of SFO/LAX. While half will replace the Q400, fifteen could make AS show SFO they are committed to growing their hub there.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 13):
Could this be to help replace VX Airbus?

Seems like this order has been rumored on this and other message boards for a little bit now.

Polot · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:40 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 11):
737s on order (not sure how many left)

62 are left on order. 25 739ERs, 20 738Maxs, 17 739Maxs. A 739ER (N224AK) is being delivered sometime this or next week so soon it will be 61 left.

peanuts · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:42 pm

Quoting boeing773er (Reply 14):
These could also be in ADDITION to VX's current fleet and help them grow small-medium sized markets out of SFO/LAX. While half will replace the Q400, fifteen could make AS show SFO they are committed to growing their hub there.

Growing too much too fast is a real killer.
AS may do a WN with regards to the acquired/merged fleet.
The options on this order may be converted relatively fast, if this happens.

Is there enough gate space at SFO for aggressive regional growth?

timpdx · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:43 pm

Great news, hope the CR9 that plies BUR-PDX goes bye bye, its a tired jet and won't miss the sandpaper they must use to clean the windows on that thing.

[Edited 2016-04-12 07:51:05]

Polot · Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:45 pm

As Osubuckeyes mentioned they have been talking about this order for a while now. It is completely independent of the VX acquisition, although of course the latter may change how they decide to deploy these new E jets. In addition to replacing some of the Q400s I believe they also want to get rid of all the OO CR7s.

atypical · Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 17):

Is there enough gate space at SFO for aggressive regional growth?

AS and VX are going to find it hard just to combine ops in 1 terminal, unless the just want to move to International. 10 domestic gates operating in 2014 will be demolished for a new Boarding Area B this summer. SFO will regain the lost gates in 2019-2021 and see the opening of 7 more 1.5 to 2 years after that. Current domestic have some wiggle room the majority of flighst will need to take place in that airline's assigned area during gate availability. The exception will be domestic airlines operating out of International.

dbo861 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:20 pm

Is AS still trying to shed 73Gs? I know they sold several to WN.

threeifbyair · Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:12 pm

What about GEG-ORD? I think a 175LR can do it - great circle distance is ~1500 miles.

Eastbound GEG traffic often backtracks through SEA because there are so few flights east. DL serves SLC (4x, 1x mainline & 3x RJ) and MSP (2x mainline), UA has DEN (2x mainline) and seasonal ORD, and WN has DEN (2x) and seasonal MDW.

ORD would have strong AA feed and could save GEG passengers a meaningful amount of time compared to connecting in SEA.

mercure1 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:12 pm

Congrats to Embraer for another win.

Probably bad news day for Bombardier which would have happily sold Alaska CRJ700/900 at nice pricing.

Also not the most inspiring for Q400 as Horizon decides to shrink fleet.

flybynight · Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:19 pm

So I fly GEG-SEA a lot. I would love to see more jet service here. No offense to the Q400, but I prefer the higher altitude (even on a short flight like GEG-SEA) and speed of jets. I would imagine the E175 is more quiet as well (the Q400 isn't bad with the noise cancellation system, but still...)

Is the Q400 being phased-out over the next 5-10 years?

LAXintl · Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:27 pm

Quoting flybynight (Reply 24):
Is the Q400 being phased-out over the next 5-10 years?

Per this thread from earlier, Q400s leases start running out in 2017 with 15 frames ending by 2018.

Alaska Nears Order Of 30 RJs To Replace Q400 Fleet (by LAXintl Jan 21 2016 in Civil Aviation)

Also in the thread Alaska Airlines CFO Brandon Pedersen says the carrier expects lower operating cost with the jets on segments over 400miles while offering more competitive multi-class passenger experience which should translate into better revenue opportunity over the Q400.

F9Animal · Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:28 pm

Yay!!! Awesome news!!! I miss the F-28, and have missed this airline flying it's own jet metal for how many years now? Don't get me wrong, I love the Q400. It's nice to see they will continue with the Q400, and only park like 18?

What's even more exciting is that Horizon will have First Class now on the 175! I think this will be the first time in the airlines history? Not sure if I am more excited about this, or the Virgin deal? Wow!!!

PlanesNTrains · Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:38 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 26):
Not sure if I am more excited about this, or the Virgin deal? Wow!!!

Alaska is hoping it's both.

-Dave

EA CO AS · Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
30 + 33 options E175.

Interestingly, the release has these numbers backwards; the initial order is for 30, plus another 3 coming from the OO order AS placed, for a total of 33 frames with 30 options.

routeplanner · Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 11):
Seems like AS is headed for a massive West Coast expansion OR may be heading towards establishment of a midwest/east coast hub.

Exciting announcements forthcoming.

32andBelow · Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting flybynight (Reply 24):
So I fly GEG-SEA a lot. I would love to see more jet service here. No offense to the Q400, but I prefer the higher altitude (even on a short flight like GEG-SEA) and speed of jets. I would imagine the E175 is more quiet as well (the Q400 isn't bad with the noise cancellation system, but still...)

You will notice almost 0 block time difference on a sector of that length.

MIflyer12 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:13 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 22):
What about GEG-ORD? I think a 175LR can do it - great circle distance is ~1500 miles.

Eastbound GEG traffic often backtracks through SEA because there are so few flights east. DL serves SLC (4x, 1x mainline & 3x RJ) and MSP (2x mainline), UA has DEN (2x mainline) and seasonal ORD, and WN has DEN (2x) and seasonal MDW.

ORD would have strong AA feed and could save GEG passengers a meaningful amount of time compared to connecting in SEA.

AA has E175s and could do ORD-GEG today if it wanted. If UA doesn't operate ORD-GEG year-round - another carrier with E175s - one really has to question the demand.

Beatyair · Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:17 pm

Figures. The E175 has been a winner.

BA · Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:19 pm

I see this move to open up new route pairs, some new thinner markets, and taking over a number of Q400 operated routes.

I don't see them replacing much AS 737 service with the Embraers. AS' flights up and down the west coast on its 737s are usually very very full.

The question I have now is all the investments Sea-Tac did to construct the new Q400 gates in Concourse C, was this largely a waste now with some gates needing to be converted to have jetbridges when 15 of the Q400s are returned to their leasors in the next few years?

hiflyeras · Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:08 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 7):
Uses 20 or 15 of these jets to replace main line AS jets up and down the west coast.
In return now use 20 idle main line AS jets to take over core VX east west markets out of SFO and LAX.
And return VX Airbus aircraft back to lessors.

Quoting boeing773er (Reply 14):
These could also be in ADDITION to VX's current fleet and help them grow small-medium sized markets out of SFO/LAX. While half will replace the Q400, fifteen could make AS show SFO they are committed to growing their hub there.

Quoting routeplanner (Reply 29):
Exciting announcements forthcoming.

Can't wait to see what new routes are announced with this exciting RJ order! I see some being used up and down the coast on late morning-early afternoon flights that might not justify a mainline jet. But the big news could be adding routes to the Midwest from PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX and SAN. That, added to the ex-VX transcon network, will make AS a big player on the west coast. Maybe we'll even see a mid-con hub someday...exercise those 30 options and they could fly east coast-midcon to a new hub.

threeifbyair · Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:08 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 31):
AA has E175s and could do ORD-GEG today if it wanted. If UA doesn't operate ORD-GEG year-round - another carrier with E175s - one really has to question the demand.

Demand is my concern as well, but 1x E175 is a low risk way to try it out. UA is weak in GEG and AA didn't even serve GEG until US came along. AS probably has a lot more FFs than AA and UA combined in GEG. I think yields may be the issue more than demand. Also, strategically, AS may still prefer to get 100% of the revenue on GEG-SEA-XXX than sharing revenue with AA over ORD. We shall see.

Quoting BA (Reply 33):
The question I have now is all the investments Sea-Tac did to construct the new Q400 gates in Concourse C, was this largely a waste now with some gates needing to be converted to have jetbridges when 15 of the Q400s are returned to their leasors in the next few years?

There are Q400s using N (N12 I believe) - I assume that won't be necessary anymore. You can still board E175s from the ground - not ideal, but US/AA did/does it at DCA. The Qs are similarly sized aircraft - should be able to park a 175 and a Q in roughly the same footprint.

32andBelow · Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:12 pm

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 34):
Can't wait to see what new routes are announced with this exciting RJ order! I see some being used up and down the coast on late morning-early afternoon flights that might not justify a mainline jet. But the big news could be adding routes to the Midwest from PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX and SAN. That, added to the ex-VX transcon network, will make AS a big player on the west coast. Maybe we'll even see a mid-con hub someday...exercise those 30 options and they could fly east coast-midcon to a new hub.

Don't forget about intra state AK

atct · Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:21 pm

Quoting flybynight (Reply 24):
So I fly GEG-SEA a lot. I would love to see more jet service here. No offense to the Q400, but I prefer the higher altitude (even on a short flight like GEG-SEA) and speed of jets.

The Q400 is blocked for the same time as the 737's and CRJ's on SEA-GEG so I'm not sure what you mean by the "speed."I also have seen the 737's flying between 270 and 310 which is only 2-4,000ft higher than the Q400, so again, no real gain.

F9Animal · Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:08 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 27):
Alaska is hoping it's both.

-Dave

Exciting times for sure! To say I am thrilled of today's announcement would be an understatement. Alaska has done great things lately. I recall several years ago how upset I was with Alaska after the ramp outsource fiasco. I am thankful that Alaska took absolute control of the situation, and fixed it. It was a personal reason that I was so passionate about the safety aspects of the operation.

Since then, Alaska has excelled in every category. I am happy to fly Alaska often, and always try to book them every time. My first trip to Hawaii was on Alaska, and it was an absolute dream vacation. The employees have stolen my heart. LOL!

So far in 2016....

1. Alaska buying Virgin America.
2. Alaska creating it's own ground handling operation.
3. Alaska orders 30 Embraer 175's for Horizon.

Am I missing anything? Man, I am proud to be in Seattle, the Alaska Airlines hometown.

Maybe the next big announcement will be........ Wait for it!!!! A name change to Alaskan Airlines!!! ROFL!

BA · Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 35):
There are Q400s using N (N12 I believe) - I assume that won't be necessary anymore. You can still board E175s from the ground - not ideal, but US/AA did/does it at DCA. The Qs are similarly sized aircraft - should be able to park a 175 and a Q in roughly the same footprint.

Forgot about N12. I believe that gate will be gone with the NorthStar project to expand the N satellite.

cschleic · Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:45 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 33):
The question I have now is all the investments Sea-Tac did to construct the new Q400 gates in Concourse C, was this largely a waste now with some gates needing to be converted to have jetbridges when 15 of the Q400s are returned to their leasors in the next few years?

Good question. But if they're operated by Horizon, will some just use the same gates? I've boarded E175s from the ground at other airports.

lhpdx · Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:59 pm

Most of the E175s at PDX are using jetways....

atcsundevil · Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:25 pm

I find it amazing that the E170/175 has been in service for more than a decade, but has really only taken off (no pun intended) in the US in the past couple of years, it seems. US Express had quite a few in service and UA Express had a couple dozen 170s, but it's only been recently that their growth has exploded with just about every major in the US. It's great to see, because they're modern, efficient aircraft and they're excellent from a passenger's perspective. It makes for a much more seamless transition between mainline and express for customer experience. This is a great (and expected) choice by AS, and I see it working very well with their brand and operations.

BoeingGuy · Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:47 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 38):

So far in 2016....

1. Alaska buying Virgin America.
2. Alaska creating it's own ground handling operation.
3. Alaska orders 30 Embraer 175's for Horizon.

Am I missing anything? Man, I am proud to be in Seattle, the Alaska Airlines hometown.

4. A new image and paint scheme.

MaxxFlyer · Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:50 pm

Not to mention how well those 175's will fit in after the DL-AS merger.

uberflieger · Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:07 pm

Counted something like 25 dailies PDX-SEA. Almost exclusively Q400. Any chance they'd deploy the E175 to reduce frequency for greater efficiency?
Congrats

flybynight · Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:25 pm

Quoting atct (Reply 37):
The Q400 is blocked for the same time as the 737's and CRJ's on SEA-GEG so I'm not sure what you mean by the "speed."I also have seen the 737's flying between 270 and 310 which is only 2-4,000ft higher than the Q400, so again, no real gain.

Every time I am on an AS 737 versus a Q400 I save about 10-15 minutes in flying time. I've done this flight about 15 times in the last 4 months.

Last week on a 737-7 we were up to 36,000 feet to avoid some weather. Not an option with the Q400 obviously.

An example - last week I flew on the Q400 over to Spokane at 47 minutes flight time. Coming back on the 737 it was roughly 39 minutes flying time. Of course other factors are involved such a traffic and weather.

ual757 · Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:26 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 45):
Counted something like 25 dailies PDX-SEA. Almost exclusively Q400. Any chance they'd deploy the E175 to reduce frequency for greater efficiency?

The market is about frequency, not capacity, so I'm imagining that's unlikely.

Especially when you consider QX Q400s are configured with Y78 and the E175 configuration operated by SkyWest is 76 total seats (12F 64Y).

EA CO AS · Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:54 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 44):
Not to mention how well those 175's will fit in after the DL-AS merger.

Go home Maxx, you're drunk...

uberflieger · Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:00 pm

Quoting ual757 (Reply 47):
QX Q400s are configured with Y78

Had no idea. Thanks. The Q400 probably beats the E175 in operating cost on such short distances and is here to stay.

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