SCQ83
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SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:44 pm

TAM started GRU-BCN a few months ago, and the route is doing well and in fact they are adding more weekly frequencies for summer.

Before TAM, the only operator on that route was Singapore Airliners with their 5th freedom flight (SIN-BCN-GRU).

In total, 6.915 PAX flew in March between Barcelona and Sao Paulo:

TAM: 4.768 - LF 83.0%

SQ: 7.744 (5.597 to SIN, 2.147 to GRU) - LF BCN-SIN 34.9%

Those +2,000 pax flying BCN to SIN with SQ include those doing that leg only and both SIN-BCN-GRU.

It makes me wonder if a 1/3 LF is really feasible in the long term. Also March this year was Easter which is a big holiday in both Brazil and Spain (however this could have a negative impact in business trips). It seems that there are many points for which this route now might be in this situation.

1. TAM competing (obvious and main point)

2. SQ losing Star Alliance connectivity on both sides! BCN-GRU started as a Star-to-Star hub (Spanair, TAM) now both of them are gone (Spanair bankrupt and TAM to Oneworld).

3. Brazilian economy collapsing.

4. Singapore economy slowing down (in recession risk)

5. More options than ever for Asia-LATAM. Obviously the European majors, ME3, Turkish, but now even odd carriers like Ethiopian or Royal Air Maroc.

The only bright point is that the Spanish economy is improving and traffic in Spanish airports is booming. However even in that situation, SQ seems doomed.

[Edited 2016-04-13 11:46:16]

[Edited 2016-04-13 12:23:47]
 
incitatus
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:15 pm

It is entirely possible that SQ cans it. I think right now they are hoping that the A350 will come in and save the route with lower operating costs.
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migair54
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:44 pm

I think this route is going to be axed very soon, the global conditions have changed a lot and now that TAM is in the market there's no point for SQ to continue the route if it's not making a lot of money, the crew and equipment required could be used much better in some other routes.

SQ is an excellent airline and have a big customer base, but this route in not attractive at all for many pax in the area, places like Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand flying to Brazil, flying via the ME3 or even Africa is much easier and shorter also, even fares are cheaper, so it's not easy for SQ to attract pax and make profit.

Brazil is not doing good, I think DL and AA are also cutting some routes and freqs to Brazil.
 
bleudefrance
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:54 pm

IMHO, this has nothing to do with the Brazilian economy, we are talking about the largest city in the Southern Hermisphere and by far the richest city in Latin American, with or without economic crisis, Sao Paulo is a city with a LOT of potential, i had no idea that there are only two airlines that link this two large cities.

[Edited 2016-04-13 14:11:17]
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:56 pm

EZE is starting to rebound. How about SIN-BCN-EZE?
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VCEflyboy
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:06 pm

How about skipping BCN and stop over at JNB?
If things are really that bad, they can drop GRU and put their pax on South African metal
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting bleudefrance (Reply 3):
we are talking about the largest city in the Southern Hermisphere and by far the richest city in Latin American, with or without economic crisis, Sao Paulo is a city with a LOT of potential

That's besides the point. Fifth freedom flights are also no longer profitable/sensible for foreign carriers like SQ. It is a HUGE additional expenditure for SQ to send its 77Ws to GRU on a sub-daily basis when a). BCN is not a scissors hub for SQ, b). onward feed options from BCN are limited on Star and c). SQ is going up against the ME3.

It makes way more sense for SQ to reach GRU via partnering with LH and LX on GRU-MUC, GRU-FRA and GRU-ZRH.
 
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Polot
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:12 pm

Quoting bleudefrance (Reply 3):
IMHO, this has nothing to do with the Brazilian economy, we are talking about the largest city in the Southern Hermisphere and by far the richest city in Latin American, with or without economic crisis, Sao Paulo is a city with a LOT of potential, i had no idea that there is only two airlines to link this two large cities.

It is not that surprising. TAM, up until very recently, has been the only Brazilian long haul carrier and all the Spanish carriers do their long haul flights primarily out of MAD. It is not like Sao Paulo and Barcelona are that closely tied anyways.
 
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psa1011
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Thread starter):
2. SQ losing Star Alliance connectivity on both sides! BCN-GRU started as a Star-to-Star hub (Spanair, TAM) now both of them are gone (Spanair bankrupt and TAM to Oneworld).

What about Avianca Brazil?
 
bleudefrance
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 7):
It is not like Sao Paulo and Barcelona are that closely tied anyways.

Im not so sure about that.

All Brazilian people that i know love Spain and Barcelona in particular, and most Brazilians understand Spanish and a lot of them even speak the language (Spanish and Portuguese languages are very similar), it could be a market to be explored, IMHO.
 
bleudefrance
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:26 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):

EZE is starting to rebound. How about SIN-BCN-EZE?

That would work, for sure, two large cities with a lot in common.
 
UALWN
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:33 pm

Quoting bleudefrance (Reply 10):
That would work, for sure, two large cities with a lot in common.

AR already flies BCN-EZE non stop.

As for BCN-GRU, IB tried it briefly a few years ago and stopped rather soon, roundly beaten by SQ. Maybe JJ will be luckier and oust SQ. At least JJ has a hub in GRU.
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747megatop
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:51 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Thailand flying to Brazil, flying via the ME3 or even Africa is much easier and shorter also, even fares are cheaper, so it's not easy for SQ to attract pax and make profit.

Why not just extend SQ 478 and add a JNB-GRU tag on? Will bilaterals prevent SQ from doing this? Or the can even partner with SAA and connect passengers to SA 225. SIN-JNB-GRU comes in at 8,700 nm and is the shortest option from SIN compared to via DXB (9,753 nm) or the current route via BCN (10,609 nm).
 
2travel2know2
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:36 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 12):
Why not just extend SQ 478 and add a JNB-GRU tag on? Will bilaterals prevent SQ from doing this? Or the can even partner with SAA and connect passengers to SA 225.

That makes a lot of sense but it-s doubtful South Africa would grant 5th freedom to SQ on JNB-GRU when SA is flying that sector.
Perhaps what would be more convenient for SQ SIN-GRU is to route it via CPT and offer SA code-share.
IMHO, it's a question of time routes like CPT-GRU and JNB-GIG will be launched.
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AngMoh
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:57 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Thread starter):

SQ: 7.744 (5.597 to SIN, 2.147 to GRU) - LF BCN-SIN 34.9%

Is this load factor correct? SQ has 3 flights per week from BCN to GRU (Monday, Thursday and Saturday). It is a 278 seat 77W, so that gives 13 flights in March and a total of 3614 available seats for the month which is a 60% load factor. 60% is bad, but not even close to the reported 35%.

BCN - SIN is 5 times per week - 3 times direct for the flight coming from GRU and twice a week over MXP (Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and 2 flights on Sunday) . That gives 22 flights for March at 6094 available seats / 92% load factor.

The 35% load factor seems to assume the BCN-GRU is 5 times per week.

While BCN-GRU is not very good, BCN-SIN makes up for it and as a whole the route is not too bad. I think it is a much better option than going to GRU via South Africa. (SIN - South Africa is flown on a 77E intended for low yield traffic and seems to be one of the last routes to be upgraded to A350).
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DCAYOW
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:05 am

How is CA doing on MAD-GRU?
Retorne ao céu...
 
777LRF
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:52 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 14):
(SIN - South Africa is flown on a 77E intended for low yield traffic and seems to be one of the last routes to be upgraded to A350).

But the 77W is slated for this route and CPT from around June onwards isn't it?

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 14):
While BCN-GRU is not very good, BCN-SIN makes up for it and as a whole the route is not too bad.

While that is what I have felt all along as well, I'm sure SQ themselves are questioning the future of the route as a poster above mentioned Spanair's bankruptcy and TAM increasing frequencies on BCN-GRU while doing arguably better than SQ on the route. Not too surprising given JJ has a hub on one end.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 12):
Why not just extend SQ 478 and add a JNB-GRU tag on?

I'm not too sure of the bilateral agreement in place here but my bare assumption given the state of SA would be that a fifth freedom wouldn't even be granted. At the same time the BCN stopover isn't just a randomly selected port in which to get to GRU, but a carefully planned fifth freedom tag on to target potential traffic on a route that had no other carrier on it at the time SQ launched it.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 1):
I think right now they are hoping that the A350 will come in and save the route with lower operating costs.

Which is exactly what they were thinking when they announced the A350 on this route. While it might not neccesarily put yields out of question, the cabin is probably more suited for this route and hopefully the lower aircraft operating costs will also ensure the route stays.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 6):
SQ is going up against the ME3.

They're also going up against the ME3 on a lot of markets and traffic flows now. I think for SQ its more about battening down the hatches with what they already have going and hopefully they can make it work. As AngMoh said above:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 14):
SQ has 3 flights per week from BCN to GRU (Monday, Thursday and Saturday). It is a 278 seat 77W, so that gives 13 flights in March and a total of 3614 available seats for the month which is a 60% load factor. 60% is bad, but not even close to the reported 35%.

BCN - SIN is 5 times per week - 3 times direct for the flight coming from GRU and twice a week over MXP (Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and 2 flights on Sunday) . That gives 22 flights for March at 6094 available seats / 92% load factor.

The 35% load factor seems to assume the BCN-GRU is 5 times per week.
Quoting AngMoh (Reply 14):
While BCN-GRU is not very good, BCN-SIN makes up for it and as a whole the route is not too bad.

        

I remember there was quite a bit of marketing for the BCN-GRU fifth freedom when it was launched, with various Brazilian and Spanish tourism promotion advertisements asserting that SQ now flies daily between BCN and GRU (back then obviously). The market conditions have changed drastically since, but I think SQ should be able to hold especially with the A350 coming online later.

While slightly off topic, I've always imagined SIN-DME-IAH being a much more questionable route than the BCN/GRU business. We saw SQ reduce that one a few years ago from daily to 5 weekly. (which is not a common move for a route that pretty much runs on the foundation of premium business travel). With oil where it is, this one will probably get the axe before GRU ever does.
 
geoshina
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:54 am

Not to mention that the BCN-GRU leg does not have a very good schedule, since it leaves in the morning and arrive in the afternoon in Brazil. The return is better, leaving in the afternoon and arriving in the morning.

TAM will begin flying GRU-JNB this year, I think. So imagine if SQ decided to changes to JNB instead of BCN, lol.


Economy in Brazil right now is bad. But Brazil is a huge country with rich people (and poor people too). I mean, those that have been more (and I highlight MORE, but we've all been facing high prices of pretty much everything these days) affected are the "price sensitive" ones. And I think the most important fact that affects air travel is the currently currency devaluation. Back in 2012 U$1,00 = R$1,50 to R$2,00 . Nowadays U$1,00 = R$3,70 to R$4,10.

So back in 2012 I bought a BCN-GRU roundtrip with SQ in C for around R$6.000,00. So this fare was around USD3.750,00.
Right now, if they kept the same price for the same fare in UDS, the cost in our currency will be R$14.250,00. So it's double the price that I paid. It's unreal. Some airlines have dropped the price to almost nothing, like AA in some cases. So in 2012 AA could charge U$1.200,00 for a Y ticket and the plane would flight full.
Now the have to charge US300,00/400,00 to fly the plane with people.


CA never had good LF. Recently they are offering C class to MAD for less than U$1.000 r/t.
 
chrisp390
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:31 am

It seems like BCN-PTY would be a good alternative. It is a star hub and would offer an abundance of connection opportunities to the Caribbean as well as South America.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:38 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 18):
It seems like BCN-PTY would be a good alternative. It is a star hub and would offer an abundance of connection opportunities to the Caribbean as well as South America.

Given the amount of capacity that has gone into PTY from Europe, it's likely no better.

SQ may want to maintain a presence in South America but there may well come a time soon that they cut and run. It may well lose its strategic value in the face of rising challenges.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:55 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
EZE is starting to rebound. How about SIN-BCN-EZE?
Quoting bleudefrance (Reply 10):

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):

EZE is starting to rebound. How about SIN-BCN-EZE?

That would work, for sure, two large cities with a lot in common.
Quoting UALWN (Reply 11):
AR already flies BCN-EZE non stop.

How about SQ on SIN-JNB-EZE, partnering with SA? SA already fly the JNB-GRU leg so SQ could codeshare on this route. AR do not currently fly EZE-JNB.

Also, SQ already codeshare on NZ's SIN-AKL-EZE route so would in some ways have a round-the-world route.
come visit the south pacific
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 20):
Also, SQ already codeshare on NZ's SIN-AKL-EZE route so would in some ways have a round-the-world route.

Are you sure? I know they talked about doing this, but I flew on this service last month in both directions, and the only codeshare flight mentioned was the AR flight.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:31 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 21):
Are you sure? I know they talked about doing this, but I flew on this service last month in both directions, and the only codeshare flight mentioned was the AR flight.

You're absolutely right! Just checked and found no confirmation about the chatter which had preceded the route. Maybe will happen under the new Macri government.
come visit the south pacific
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:46 am

I actually wondered if SIN-GRU would be the third ULH nonstop that SQ has mentioned would be opped by its A359ULRs (which just about everyone else just assumes for fact will be SFO).

It's 360nm longer than SIN-EWR, but might not be able to be flown continuously eastbound, which could be a problem.

Sure the country has economic woes, but it's not like any such service would be catering to a beach crowd. It's worth noting that they maintained their EWR/LAX nonstops throughout the USA's economic turmoil circa 2008-2009, and that was with a shitty aircraft.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
mfc
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:00 am

I have consulted Aena Traffic Statistics website (http://www.aena.es/csee/Satellite?pagename=Estadisticas/Home) to see how many pax+transits (inbound and outbound) flew between Barcelona and Brasil by type of plane. The results for March are the following:

Boeing 767 (TAM): 4765 pax
Boeing 777-300 (SIA): 2518 pax

If anybody could provide/calculate the capacity offered by both airlines, we could see what the load factor was.

You can see what the website shows below:

Pax between BCN and Brasil in 2016
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eielef
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:02 am

Why not SIN-BRU-GRU?
There are no flights between Brazil and Belgium, and is a sort of good hub for SN. Albeit MUC, FRA or ZRH seems more promising, they already have flights both by LH and LX.
By all means, all the routes between Asia and Latin America have proven to be a failure. e.g. ICN-LAX-GRU, PEK-MAD-GRU or SIN-BCN-GRU.
Even AM is struggling to get it right to China or Japan, albeit the distance is much shorter and it can be done nonstop.
I something think a smart connection in SYD could make a difference (so GRU-SCL-SYD-xxx), all with one world, LATAM and Qantas, or even in AKL... Though that seems already too long for most of people... The trip (with the stop in BCN) should be nerve killing for most of humans, specially those flying in economy. I think is about 21 hours, if not more.
 
777LRF
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:12 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 23):
I actually wondered if SIN-GRU would be the third ULH nonstop

Highly doubt that, what sort of traffic would they be after besides possibly getting some China-South America traffic, who knows how the yields on that will end up.

Although all things considered, with UA soon to be on SIN-SFO, never say never. I too think that even without UA on the route, SQ would rather have a different non-stop port besides SFO. HKG-SFO do extremely well for them, I'm less sure on ICN-SFO but the rhetoric I've heard suggests its doing okay. Either way the point is the current SFO routes are mean't to be strategic rather than "we're going fifth freedom because we can't do direct right now".

Quoting eielef (Reply 25):
Why not SIN-BRU-GRU?

Is there any real cultural or economic feasibility for this? BCN-GRU linked two major unserved cities with a big traffic flow to grab, which at the time was a fantastic idea that showed SQ management's strategic acumen. If BCN/GRU doesn't end up working out for them, I'm not sure their plan is to have a impulse reaction by launching another fifth freedom to Latin America.

Quoting geoshina (Reply 17):
Right now, if they kept the same price for the same fare in UDS, the cost in our currency will be R$14.250,00.

Wow that's an interesting practical insight to something we already are aware of. Thanks for that. Goes to show how much things can change along with the other competitive factors.
 
AngMoh
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:57 am

Quoting 777LRF (Reply 16):
While slightly off topic, I've always imagined SIN-DME-IAH being a much more questionable route than the BCN/GRU business. We saw SQ reduce that one a few years ago from daily to 5 weekly. (which is not a common move for a route that pretty much runs on the foundation of premium business travel). With oil where it is, this one will probably get the axe before GRU ever does.

In Singapore, there are special offers for SIN-DME-IAH. Last week there was a special sale for SIN-IAH at SGD$9998 (SGD$1388 for peak summer season) something I have never seen before.

The special offer SIN-GRU is $1988. So it must be doing a lot better than 35% load factor.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:21 am

Quoting 777LRF (Reply 26):
Highly doubt that, what sort of traffic would they be after besides possibly getting some China-South America traffic

The nonstops were never really about cnnx on the Asian end (seeing as it makes no sense whatsoever to connect to just about anywhere via SIN, for a N.American pax).... it was about getting the financial O&D to Singapore.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
migair54
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:57 am

Quoting mfc (Reply 24):
Boeing 767 (TAM): 4765 pax
Boeing 777-300 (SIA): 2518 pax

With SQ having 13 flights in March, 193 pax per fligh and with B77W with 278 seats, load factor is 69%. Not bad, but without knowing the loads in different cabins we can't know for sure how is it doing.

TAM load factor is excellent and route is going to daily soon, so I guess even more pax will choose TAM.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 5):
How about skipping BCN and stop over at JNB?
If things are really that bad, they can drop GRU and put their pax on South African metal

I don't think SA government will ever gI've SQ 5th freedom, so working with SAA could be a solution. I can't really see another route to GRU working, most of the hubs in Europe have good connections with GRU and SQ was granted this route because Spanair, so it's not likely they will have another one easily.
 
777LRF
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:57 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 28):
it was about getting the financial O&D to Singapore.

In which GRU would serve no importance or value. Although I do agree that the much hyped SFO direct is increasingly unlikely
 
AngMoh
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:34 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 27):
In Singapore, there are special offers for SIN-DME-IAH. Last week there was a special sale for SIN-IAH at SGD$9998 (SGD$1388 for peak summer season) something I have never seen before.

oops : should be SIN-IAH sale at SGD$998 (roughly USD $735).......
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
jfk777
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:02 am

Could the Singapore 777 to Sao Paulo be supported by Cargo ? Freight is always a big thing to and from Brazil.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:19 am

^^ Is freight still a big thing to Brazil?

Given the comic issues, it would likely be a case of softening demand on that front too.
 
winginit
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:28 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Thread starter):

TAM started GRU-BCN a few months ago, and the route is doing well

How do we know that?
 
AviRaider
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:36 pm

We shouldn't forget about the Zika virus epidemic taking place there. It's got a lot of American's flustered who travel between the regions. So I can imagine it makes an economic problem that much greater.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:20 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 14):
Is this load factor correct?

Thank you for looking into that. I thought there was something off about the OP's LF numbers for the various segments.
 
airbazar
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RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 29):
With SQ having 13 flights in March, 193 pax per fligh and with B77W with 278 seats, load factor is 69%. Not bad, but without knowing the loads in different cabins we can't know for sure how is it doing.

So this entire thread is based on false information?  
In any case you're right, if the front of the cabin is full or commands higher fares then TAM, they should be doing ok.
BCN-GRU is just too big of a market. There is plenty of room for 2 carriers, IMO.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7033
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:15 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 25):
all the routes between Asia and Latin America have proven to be a failure

That is incorrect. For years, GRU sustained JL service via JFK, and MEX sustained JL service via YVR.

On the other hand, AM is thriving on MEX-NRT. The flight started as a 2x weekly affair via TIJ and it is now nonstop and going 5x weekly. AM has been so successful, that NH is also launching MEX nonstop from NRT perhaps up to daily.

AM's other Asian route (MEX-PVG) should be doing well, as it went from 2 to 3x weekly on 77E with one stop.

Latin American passengers make up a large number of flyers between MEX and NRT/PVG.

I would not be surprised if CX or KE lands in Latin America soon.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3665
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:58 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 38):
I would not be surprised if CX or KE lands in Latin America soon.

CX definitely codeshare on the LA's South America leg of HKG-AKL-SCL, probably on HKG-SYD-SCL too.
come visit the south pacific
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7033
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: SQ To Sao Paulo Abysmal Load Factor

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:13 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 39):
CX definitely codeshare on the LA's South America leg of HKG-AKL-SCL, probably on HKG-SYD-SCL too.

They are not the only Asian carrier that places its code on flights to Latin America.

I meant they are yet to fly their own planes to the region on a regularly scheduled basis.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).

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