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DTWPurserBoy
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Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:22 pm

I am a bit confused. Sometimes I see the B737-732 referred to as just that, other times it is the B737-932ER. Are they all ER's or is there a mix of the two? How much more range does the ER have over the non-ER?
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deltal1011man
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:28 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter):

DL has three types of 737s in the fleet
10 737-732s
73 737-832s
60(ish) 737-932ER

AFAIK Boeing doesn't sell 737-900s anymore.

Having said that, I think the difference in range between the 900 and 900ER is about 800nms.
 
a380787
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:28 pm

According to wiki, FWIW, DL is 100% 900ER, doesn't have any non-ER ones.

The 900 non-ER was quite a flop, with only 52 frames ever ordered (and all delivered). UA and AS each has 12 of those. The ER is quite a bit better at 377 delivered + 138 outstanding for total of 515.

[Edited 2016-04-14 07:32:24]
 
Transpac787
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:08 pm

To add an additional element of confusion... some, but not all, of the 739 fleet will be ETOPS certified. They are coded as the 73E's.

At present, with 120 total 739 deliveries planned, that's ships 3801-3899, 3900-3920. Last I heard from a 737 friend, ships 3853 to 3899, along with 3900 will all be 73E's (739 + ETOPS). 3801-3852, and 3901-3920 are not scheduled to get ETOPS. At this time, at least.

Delta received some ETOPS-capable 738's, scattered somewhat randomly about the deliveries. I've wondered why those aren't brought up to current ETOPS standards. 738's certainly do a heck of a lot better to Hawaii than 739's do.

738 ETOPS-capable ships, 11 in total:

3701
3702
3704
3706
3708
3709
3710
3715
3718
3722
3740
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 3):

Delta received some ETOPS-capable 738's, scattered somewhat randomly about the deliveries. I've wondered why those aren't brought up to current ETOPS standards. 738's certainly do a heck of a lot better to Hawaii than 739's do.

my understanding is the company feels the 739 will be able to do what they want with Hawaii and if it can't they will use the 75H.

I'm honestly confused why they are even using the 739 to Hawaii at all right now, with the 75Gs going to Asia DL has plenty of 75H and 753 frames to do the Hawaii flying. It has pretty much been handled by the 4 75Vs plus 1-2 75S plus the 753s so I don't really get the need for the 739s doing it.
 
Transpac787
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:25 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 4):
I'm honestly confused why they are even using the 739 to Hawaii at all right now, with the 75Gs going to Asia DL has plenty of 75H and 753 frames to do the Hawaii flying. It has pretty much been handled by the 4 75Vs plus 1-2 75S plus the 753s so I don't really get the need for the 739s doing it.

Exactly. 5635-5649 now all available for Hawaii, plus 5801-5816. Why the need for any 739's to Hawaii??

Truly an awful airplane to fly to the islands. Especially on the markedly long SEA-HNL flight.

I do find it interesting though, how there are now two subsets of 75H's. Those with a 240.0 MGTOW, and those with the heavier 255.0 MGTOW. I'll get interesting when a 240.0 bird shows up on flights like MSP-KEF, this summer.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:35 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):

I do find it interesting though, how there are now two subsets of 75H's. Those with a 240.0 MGTOW, and those with the heavier 255.0 MGTOW. I'll get interesting when a 240.0 bird shows up on flights like MSP-KEF, this summer.

I have been expecting them to get standardize at some point. (I think its just paper work)

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):

Exactly. 5635-5649 now all available for Hawaii, plus 5801-5816. Why the need for any 739's to Hawaii??

Someone has found some kind of reason.
hard to know why they do things sometimes.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:53 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
Truly an awful airplane to fly to the islands. Especially on the markedly long SEA-HNL flight.

Truly an awful airplane to fly anywhere. I avoid this plane like the plague.
 
alyusuph
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:58 am

I have always wondered as to why Boeing should not focus their efforts on the 738 by extending it, just a little bit (not as long as the 739) to beat the A320 in seat mile costs, and then let go the fight for the 321 and 739. They will then come up with an aircraft which is more capable than the 738s and 320s and with better performance than the 739. This aircraft could be a tad cheaper and with longer legs than the 321. They can then drop the production of the 739 completely and direct efforts elsewhere.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:43 am

Quoting alyusuph (Reply 8):
I have always wondered as to why Boeing should not focus their efforts on the 738 by extending it, just a little bit (not as long as the 739) to beat the A320 in seat mile costs,

Because 1) that would cost money in development and certification and 2) the 739ER/MAX, while not a match for the A321, is still selling, and likely won't be abandoned until the MOM is firmly on offer-- if even then.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ben175
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:29 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
Truly an awful airplane to fly to the islands. Especially on the markedly long SEA-HNL flight.

Can someone explain all the 739 hate?
 
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GE9X
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:52 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 10):

Flight attendants hate it because it's cramped and takes forever to embark and disembark. Passengers hate it because it's cramped and takes forever to embark and disembark. Pilots I don't know, I guess it's just qnother 737 to them except for the tail strike risk. But bean counters love them!
 
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cathay747
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:00 am

Thanks "ben175" for the above, I don't understand all the 739 hate either.

Quoting GE9X (Reply 11):
Passengers hate it because it's cramped and takes forever to embark and disembark.

Why? How can it be any worse than a fully loaded 757?
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flyinghippo
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:05 am

Quoting GE9X (Reply 11):

I flew on DL's 739ERs a number of times this year in J, E, E+, had no issues with it. It is a long plane so walking back to the bathroom is a trek especially if the flight is bumpy, but the pitch, seat width and IFE is more than adequate.
 
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:11 am

Quoting GE9X (Reply 11):
Passengers hate it because it's cramped and takes forever to embark and disembark.

From a passenger perspective, I've yet to find it any different than a 757.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:26 am

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 12):
Why? How can it be any worse than a fully loaded 757?

A 739 does take an eternity, like a 753 does. The 739 flights I have had on CO/UA/AA have all taken longer than a fully laden longhaul 77W to disembark

Then there's the fact that it has replaced an airliners.net all-time favourite aircraft (752) with an ungainly stretch job that is malproportioned like a Dachshund so there much reason to hate it.  
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:34 am

People b*tch about it just to b*tch. The 739 is a whopping NINE (9) feet longer than the 738. No one complains about the 738. It's even shorter than the 757 and A321. Again. No one complains about those. Boarding times are not any longer for 739 then for 752 or A321. Its a little weird having no mid cabin lav in Delta's config but that's about it. Take off roll and climb performance matters zilch for Delta's network. At the end of the day, it's an extremely reliable and economic work horse that's no better or worse than any other of Delta's new config narrow bodies.

Focus your energies on positive things ... Stop wasting it on made up non-issue negative crap.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:19 pm

Just this morning Reuters is reporting the DL is close to an order for 125 C-series and expect an announcement at the end of the month when the Board of Directors meets to approve the purchase. Bombardier was smart to start with a "clean sheet" aircraft instead of a repeatedly warmed over 1960's design. Granted, a 737 coming off the line bears little resemblance to the original 737 but IMHO the 739 MAX is about the end of the line. Time for Boeing to start on a replacement or surrender that lucrative market (which I do not think they have any intention of doing.)

But new designs to not show up overnight--it takes several years. Time is wasting, Boeing. If this deal with DL for the C-Series goes through I would fully expect UA and AA to follow suit.

It will be interesting to see if Bombardier was forced to commit to a -500 model as part of the deal.
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Sightseer
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:36 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 10):
Can someone explain all the 739 hate?

It has more to do with DL's configuration than the plane itself. Pitch is on the tighter side compared to the rest of the fleet, in the name of fitting more seats on board. There is no restroom at the front of the Y cabin. An FA could tell you more about the galley issues.

I've flown on it a couple of times and while I don't think it's that bad, I do prefer other planes when possible.

[Edited 2016-04-15 07:47:11]
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:41 pm

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 16):
People b*tch about it just to b*tch. The 739 is a whopping NINE (9) feet longer than the 738. No one complains about the 738.

Or some people travel a lot and find the experience bad. That would be me. Actually, it is not the airplanes fault. Since you are right a 737 tube is a 737 tube. It is more about what Delta does with the tube. And I will admit my avoidance of the plane is elitist. If fly first class. And first class is cramped. If you are in a window seat you have to ask the person in front of you to push their seat up from recline and then grope your way over your aisle seatmate to get to aisle. Once out you are stuck in a very cramped lav. I don't seem to have these issues with the other 737 tubes. It's a Delta issue. Not a Boeing issue.
 
United1
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:50 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 10):
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
Truly an awful airplane to fly to the islands. Especially on the markedly long SEA-HNL flight.

Can someone explain all the 739 hate?

Think part of it has to do with the way DL configured the aircraft....there doesn't seem to be as much "hate" for the 739ER on the UA/AS threads.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Transpac787
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:07 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 10):
Can someone explain all the 739 hate?

In my own opinion on the matter, I actually enjoy riding on the DL 739's as a passenger. Working the 739's, though, is a whole other matter.

In this instance, I say the 739 is an awful choice for Hawaii, because SEA-HNL is well in excess of its reasonable payload range. Quite obviously the plane itself can make it, but at what payload penalty?? Most days it operates with a planned passenger restriction, and cannot go full.

This past summer, for example, a 739 regularly operated the SLC-ANC flight. Another poor choice of aircraft for a performance-critical route, in my own opinion. While a 739, the flight typically operated with planned restrictions down to 738 capacities. Basically using the larger aircraft for naught - they gained no capacity advantage, as those seats routinely left empty.

Other points why it is not liked:
- It's very finnicky to get in balance, especially with issues of tail-tips
- It's very underpowered; routes like ATL-SEA will have westbound drift down alternates over the Rockies, even after considerable fuel burn off
- It's a poor hot/high performer
- It has much faster Vref speeds compared to similar types, making it more difficult to land at airports like SAN
- There is a very very narrow tolerance in degrees between flare, and tall-strike, during landing

The list can go on and on.

To be clear, I've personally only had positive experiences riding on the type. I love the AVOD, the BSI interiors, the lighting, etc. But I personally don't work them on the line, either!!
 
bpat777
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:15 pm

From my experiences with the DL 739ER, I don't understand all the "hate" towards the plane. Maybe the people complaining are on the overweight side and have difficulty with the seat width and pitch. I rarely use the lav on a plane so walking 2-3 mins down an aisle isn't challenging for me. The same goes for disembarking and I usually sit right behind the wing between rows 26-30. Still, no bigger issue than waiting to get off a 757 or A321.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:14 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 18):
It has more to do with DL's configuration than the plane itself.
Quoting United1 (Reply 20):
there doesn't seem to be as much "hate" for the 739ER on the UA

Nah, the UA people definitely bitch too... especially on FlyerTalk, and particularly back when they were having to 1stop some of the transcons out of SFO, or when people get bumped off the HI flights.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:22 pm

Quoting alyusuph (Reply 8):
I have always wondered as to why Boeing should not focus their efforts on the 738 by extending it, just a little bit (not as long as the 739) to beat the A320 in seat mile costs, and then let go the fight for the 321 and 739. They will then come up with an aircraft which is more capable than the 738s and 320s and with better performance than the 739. This aircraft could be a tad cheaper and with longer legs than the 321. They can then drop the production of the 739 completely and direct efforts elsewhere.

Please. The 737 is a dead horse, Boeing should can any further development of it after the conclusion of the MAX programme.
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:00 pm

As a f/a I can honestly say that the major gripes from cabin crew are the galleys--there is absolutely NO counter space. Take a quick look the next time you fly on one.

The other complaint is how long it takes to deplane. Frequently we have about 50 minutes to connect for our next flight and when it takes 20 minutes to get everyone off we wind up running through the terminal to get to the next gate (for some reason they are rarely at the next gate). Then you have to preflight the airplane and set the galleys up and we get grief from the gate agents wanting to board. Next thing you know you are getting a phone call from a manager wanting to know why you delayed the departure of the flight. Every flight delay is charged to some department and when it is inflight that gets dinged we definitely hear about it.

The 757 is not quite as bad. When using door 2L for boarding/deplaning things go more smoothly. The 757-300 just takes longer because of the increased passenger loads and the amount of carryon baggage.

But we are stuck with the 739 so we will just have to make the best of it. Our managers are well aware of the problems--they check ride and see for themselves the difficulties so they tend to take your explanation and pass it up the chain of command without a lot of grief. Now I am not saying that we don't hurry to our next flight but let's just say we don't exactly run either.
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Okcflyer
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:11 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 25):
The 757 is not quite as bad. When using door 2L for boarding/deplaning things go more smoothly.

So the A321 deplanes faster than the 739? Highly doubtful. Likewise, can't see how the 752 is more than 1-2 minutes faster.

Hopefully Delta address the counter space / galley issues at some point. Overall the 739 has become a major anchor of DL's fleet.
 
Transpac787
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 26):
So the A321 deplanes faster than the 739? Highly doubtful. Likewise, can't see how the 752 is more than 1-2 minutes faster.

If you'll notice, he said "more smoothly", not "faster".

Having a separate cabin forward of the boarding door for F-class allows FA's to hang coats, do pre departure beverages, and all that stuff without the continuous service-impeding traffic of boarding.

Further, the A321 will always board from 1L at DL, not 2L. In this regard, it will be identical to the 739.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:24 pm

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 26):

So the A321 deplanes faster than the 739? Highly doubtful. Likewise, can't see how the 752 is more than 1-2 minutes faster.

The A321 will only be using door 1L for boarding and deplaning. It will be another slow one. Rumor has it that the door is too close to the wing and engine and a sloppy jet bridge operator could damage the plane.
Hopefully Delta address the counter space / galley issues at some point. Overall the 739 has become a major anchor of DL's fleet.

Great idea but I am afraid we are stuck. These are brand new airplanes and DL is not about to rip out the galleys for the convenience of the flight attendants. The A330's were the same way--but we are an enterprising lot and we somehow just make it all work.

It is a running joke that the company always says "The galleys were designed by flight attendants" but somehow we can never find anyone who says they had anything to do with it. That would NOT be a pleasant conversation. Unfortunately, galleys are expensive real estate so they make them as small as possible.
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seabosdca
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:42 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 21):
- It's very finnicky to get in balance, especially with issues of tail-tips
- It's very underpowered; routes like ATL-SEA will have westbound drift down alternates over the Rockies, even after considerable fuel burn off
- It's a poor hot/high performer
- It has much faster Vref speeds compared to similar types, making it more difficult to land at airports like SAN
- There is a very very narrow tolerance in degrees between flare, and tall-strike, during landing

No question the aircraft has performance compromises that help enable its excellent economics.

But the passenger experience issues are mostly because the airline decided to fit the maximum possible seats. If one row were taken out of Y, with 4" given to each F and 1" to each Comfort+ row, there would be no complaints. I've only been on a Delta 739ER once, but in regular economy it was like any other Delta aircraft. On Alaska, I quite like the 739ER as a passenger.

[Edited 2016-04-15 16:43:25]
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:50 am

Quoting GE9X (Reply 11):
Passengers hate it because it's cramped and takes forever to embark and disembark.

90% of passengers don't even know what flight number they're on, much less the type of plane.

Quoting United1 (Reply 20):
there doesn't seem to be as much "hate" for the 739ER on the UA/AS threads.

Sure there is, it's just from people who think it's an engineering failure that the aft end needs to be unloaded first and that UA would see a need to a stick to tell them when the thing might tip...

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 28):

It is a running joke that the company always says "The galleys were designed by flight attendants" but somehow we can never find anyone who says they had anything to do with it.

Maybe they're designed by retired flight attendants?
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neutronstar73
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:33 am

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 16):

I don't get the hate either. I think it's just a bunch of astro-turfers putting as many negative comments about the plane as possible to affect internet analytics, and by design, trash the rep of the airplane.

I also love the conclusory "all passengers hate it" without a shred of objective, empirical evidence to back it up. I flew on a DL 739 a couple of times and liked it. Being objective, didn't find it any different (beyond the 739's better amenities) than a USAir A321 (noisy and slow) , 738, or 757.
 
United1
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:57 pm

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 30):
Quoting United1 (Reply 20):
there doesn't seem to be as much "hate" for the 739ER on the UA/AS threads.

Sure there is, it's just from people who think it's an engineering failure that the aft end needs to be unloaded first and that UA would see a need to a stick to tell them when the thing might tip...

lol....well there is a stick to make sure the thing won't tip   I think DL uses the stick as well...not sure about AS.

The 739ER seems to do a fairly good job but it does have some inherent issues that are to be expected on any air frame that has been stretched six times. For DL at least it seems why people hate it all has to do with the way the company outfitted it....bad galley late out, tight seating and no mid cabin lavs are the 3 big issues I hear.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:02 pm

The "stick" isn't weight bearing. It's simply a visual indicator the airplane is unbalanced and about to tip.
 
United1
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:04 pm

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 33):
The "stick" isn't weight bearing. It's simply a visual indicator the airplane is unbalanced and about to tip.

really? I thought it was ....thanks for the correction.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:13 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 17):
But new designs to not show up overnight--it takes several years. Time is wasting, Boeing. If this deal with DL for the C-Series goes through I would fully expect UA and AA to follow suit.

I am afraid that the ship sailed on that one. UA ordered the 737-700, tons of them over the C-series citing commonality.
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CRJ900
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:48 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 18):
in the name of fitting more seats on board

You Americans are spoiled, with US carriers having only 179-181 seats on the B739ER. In Europe, the smaller B738 has 180-189 seats with most carriers and the B739ER that flew with Futura, XL and Sky had a whoppin' 215 seats and three lavs. Now, that's tight!
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Sightseer
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 36):
You Americans are spoiled, with US carriers having only 179-181 seats on the B739ER. In Europe, the smaller B738 has 180-189 seats with most carriers and the B739ER that flew with Futura, XL and Sky had a whoppin' 215 seats and three lavs.

Keep in mind that all the US legacies have a dedicated first class section with larger seats. If WN ever orders the 739 I would expect them to seat around 200, since their 738s seat 175. Still not as bad as 215 though   
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:23 pm

I have a question for some of our pilot friends that fly the 739. I have heard that the scimitar wingtips make it more difficult to control. True or just urban legend?
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DualQual
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:28 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 38):

Urban legend that it's harder to control. It's one more thing hanging off the airplane that you have to consider when taxiing or landing in a crosswind (I've been off the airplane a while and I don't remember if the crosswind limits changed with the scimitars) but the airplane doesn't handle any differently with them vs without.

[Edited 2016-04-16 08:29:13]
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b727fa
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:29 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 25):
As a f/a I can honestly say that the major gripes from cabin crew are the galleys--there is absolutely NO counter space. Take a quick look the next time you fly on one.

So very true! I just did a trip with 2 different -900s. One had the "wall" where the ovens in Y would have been (about 6" of "counter") and the other had the "new" aft galley with the large cubby (2.5' deep?) and the cupboard of the same size and it made a WORLD of difference--not perfect, but MUCH better.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 25):
But we are stuck with the 739 so we will just have to make the best of it. Our managers are well aware of the problems--they check ride and see for themselves the difficulties so they tend to take your explanation and pass it up the chain of command without a lot of grief. Now I am not saying that we don't hurry to our next flight but let's just say we don't exactly run either.

I agree that they "get" the problems and generally work to solve them (see above galley change) on this and other fleets. (Think MD90 and 320 seat removal.) What is difficult for FA's to handle--strictly human nature--is the lead time and process it takes to plan, engineer, certify and implement these changes. We then have a multitude of galleys and configurations and it feels like we're in galley roulette. Particularly frustrating to the crews is knowing the changes are coming, but taking delivery of new a/c with the "old" layout--not understanding that even though the changes are coming, they now are "after market" so we have to take the planes like that and then re-do them immediately. Like buying a car without cruise control and then putting it in. While it makes sense from a building and business POV, it "feels" illogical to many. With any aircraft I've decided to "make peace with it" and make it work. I'm a lot happier when I'm not fighting (or complaining). Like DTWPurserBoy says, "we make it work!"

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 28):
Great idea but I am afraid we are stuck. These are brand new airplanes and DL is not about to rip out the galleys for the convenience of the flight attendants. The A330's were the same way--but we are an enterprising lot and we somehow just make it all work.

I think every airline can find they don't quite "get it right" on galley space. But, no matter who ordered, in the A330's case NWA, the crews find a way to get the job done. With that said, don't get me started on the 75D! LOL.
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:39 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 40):
I agree that they "get" the problems and generally work to solve them (see above galley change) on this and other fleets. (Think MD90 and 320 seat removal.) What is difficult for FA's to handle--strictly human nature--is the lead time and process it takes to plan, engineer, certify and implement these changes. We then have a multitude of galleys and configurations and it feels like we're in galley roulette. Particularly frustrating to the crews is knowing the changes are coming, but taking delivery of new a/c with the "old" layout--not understanding that even though the changes are coming, they now are "after market" so we have to take the planes like that and then re-do them immediately. Like buying a car without cruise control and then putting it in. While it makes sense from a building and business POV, it "feels" illogical to many. With any aircraft I've decided to "make peace with it" and make it work. I'm a lot happier when I'm not fighting (or complaining). Like DTWPurserBoy says, "we make it work!"

I think the handwriting was on the wall for the aft galleys on the MD-88/90 and A319/320 when they decided hot meals would no longer be served in main cabin. Frankly, I am surprised it took them so many years to formulate a solution. What I hate is climbing over passengers legs and feet to arm and disarm the 2L door.

You are so correct about those lead times. I bet management looks at a dozen designs, picks one, then puts it out for bid. That is a slow process.
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:01 pm

How does the aft galley look like on Delta's B739ER?

Boeing touted the enlarged galley when they launched the B739ER with the flat aft pressure bulkhead and the galley could fit six full-size carts and four half-size carts in front of four of those full-size carts. Did DL, AS, UA take these huge galleys or are they too heavy and unnecessary as you don't serve meals in Y?
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:02 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 32):
lol....well there is a stick to make sure the thing won't tip   I think DL uses the stick as well...not sure about AS.
Quoting okcflyer (Reply 33):
The "stick" isn't weight bearing. It's simply a visual indicator the airplane is unbalanced and about to tip.

United and Delta use a non Boeing design. Alaska uses the Boeing designed tailstand which has a working load of 9,000lbs. So, not simply a visual indicator.
 
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 43):

Quoting United1 (Reply 32):
lol....well there is a stick to make sure the thing won't tip   I think DL uses the stick as well...not sure about AS.
Quoting okcflyer (Reply 33):
The "stick" isn't weight bearing. It's simply a visual indicator the airplane is unbalanced and about to tip.

United and Delta use a non Boeing design. Alaska uses the Boeing designed tailstand which has a working load of 9,000lbs. So, not simply a visual indicator.

I took a look at the UA thread regarding the tail stands and I think the UA ones are weight bearing. They are designed in house but I think they are more than just a visual indicator. Take a look at the last post in the thread...

Tipping Problems On Tail-Heavy UA 739s (by kgaiflyer Jan 31 2016 in Civil Aviation)
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:05 pm

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 16):
he 739 is a whopping NINE (9) feet longer than the 738. No one complains about the 738.

A lot of the airlines used the 739ER to introduce 'optimizations' to the size of the lav (akin to crapping in a phone booth) and seat pitch and 'slimline' seats.

Give it time, most people will hate the 738 just as much soon! 
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 42):
with the flat aft pressure bulkhead and the galley could fit six full-size carts and four half-size carts in front of four of those full-size carts.

The galleys ARE larger (deeper)...but the floor space is the same or less than on the 800. Sure, we can store a ton of stuff, we just can't do anything with it once we pull it out! By all means, let's put a spring snake in a can--it fits, but once you open the can the snake explodes out! ACK!
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:48 am

Quoting okcflyer (Reply 33):
The "stick" isn't weight bearing. It's simply a visual indicator the airplane is unbalanced and about to tip.
Quoting United1 (Reply 44):
I took a look at the UA thread regarding the tail stands and I think the UA ones are weight bearing.

I've yet to see them in action, so I don't know. I don't even know if (at this point) they'll issue any to BNA since we see a 900 about once every 2 or 3 weeks...
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:11 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 15):

A 739 does take an eternity, like a 753 does. The 739 flights I have had on CO/UA/AA have all taken longer than a fully laden longhaul 77W to disembark

But it's a 3x3 cabin of the same width (exactly) and approximate length of a 752. Why does the 739 take longer? Because it's uglier and less graceful?

I dislike the aircraft for all the aesthetic reasons we all dislike it, but let's not overstate its shortcomings.

Quoting United1 (Reply 44):

I took a look at the UA thread regarding the tail stands and I think the UA ones are weight bearing.

They bear 9,000 lbs.

Look, the 739 is not a torture device. It has the same cabin cross-section as the 757. It has adequate air conditioning and pressurization systems to keep passengers comfy. Within its range, it is about as fast as comparable aircraft. Its range and payload is a bit of an issue for airlines, but not for passengers. With the new Boeing Sky Interior, a ride on a 739 is what you make of it. If you purchase a cheap, cramped seat on a cheap, cramped airline, you are going to get a cheap, cramped seat. If you purchase extra legroom or an F-class seat, the 739 is somewhat uninspiring, but certainly adequate airliner.
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RE: Confusion Over DL 739 And 739ER

Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):

But it's a 3x3 cabin of the same width (exactly) and approximate length of a 752. Why does the 739 take longer?

I take your point, but one difference is that 757s can be loaded/unloaded from L2 rather than L1, which can streamline the process somewhat.

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