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enilria
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DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:35 pm

In the quarterly call, new CEO Ed Bastian said:

"...we have seen the ME3 add capacity transatlantically. Here in Atlanta we have seen Turkish add service and Qatar add flights to Doha."

He went on to say that he does not think the QR service to ATL is sustainable. He did not make the same comment about TK.

He may have misspoke, but I think it implies they don't really consider a difference between TK and the ME3 carriers (EY/EK/QR). It will be interesting to see if that implies a future political effort against TK as well.
 
a380787
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:43 pm

He should already be grateful that ME3 is entirely absent in many of his fortress hubs like DTW MSP SLC. UA has to face ME3 at 6 of their 7 hubs.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 1):
He should already be grateful that ME3 is entirely absent in many of his fortress hubs like DTW MSP SLC. UA has to face ME3 at 6 of their 7 hubs.

I'm sure he didn't mean to say it, but I think it reinforces the theory that the only reason they didn't include TK was that it would have jeopardized UA's support for Fair Skies since they are a fairly integral Star carrier.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:51 pm

I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this. The amount of political capital they're wasting on a dead end is right up there with several other DL battles they're also losing, and UA's award winning Pyrrhic loss over HOU.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
the only reason they didn't include TK was that it would have jeopardized UA's support for Fair Skies since they are a fairly integral Star carrier.

I don't think UA would care if TK hit the road
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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enilria
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:55 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
the only reason they didn't include TK was that it would have jeopardized UA's support for Fair Skies since they are a fairly integral Star carrier.

I don't think UA would care if TK hit the road

If you are right, we may have seen a hint of the future after the U.S. election resets the playing field.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this. The amount of political capital they're wasting on a dead end is right up there with several other DL battles they're also losing,

It is possible the next U.S. President will be considerably more protectionist. All 4 primary candidates left have had to pander on protectionism in the primaries.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:58 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this

Richard left Delta a while ago,He is no longer the CEO
The CEO now Ed!!!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):

I'm sure he didn't mean to say it,

No he meant to say it. Its very questionable if TK will make ATL-IST work.
however TK isn't the ME3. He didn't say they were.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
but I think it reinforces the theory that the only reason they didn't include TK was that it would have jeopardized UA's support for Fair Skies since they are a fairly integral Star carrier.

as normal you are trying to find a way to lump fair skies all on DL and somehow AA and UA just kinda showed up at the wrong meeting.

The people running these three airlines aren't that stupid. Also DL has made it VERY clear they have no problem going against UA and AA. If UA or AA weren't in agreement on the fair skies issue then DL would go at it alone. Its not some big conspiracy to keep UA and/or AA involved.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 5):
Richard left Delta a while ago,He is no longer the CEO

He's Chairman of the Board. I wouldn't say he has left DL. Something political like Fair Skies is probably something he can stay involved in from his new position as it does not involve day to day operations.

Ted Reed just asked if Bastian expects any resolution with Fair Skies:

DL Response: "This is our #1 priority in Washington. We have reason to believe the U.S. govt will do the right thing, but it will take time. Nothing is imminent."
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):

I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this

Lol

Richard is now telling Ed Bastian what to do? I love anet. I really do.


You guys should listen to the call. Not take two sentences from an hour long call and twist it into garbage.
 
stburke
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:03 pm

This logic is insane. This comes on the heels that DL might reduce capacity in order to bump fares and unit revenue: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-as-cheap-fuel-offsets-soft-demand
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:07 pm

Quoting stburke (Reply 9):
This logic is insane. This comes on the heels that DL might reduce capacity in order to bump fares and unit revenue: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-as-cheap-fuel-offsets-soft-demand

Yes, that was also said on the call. It was not part of this topic, so I did not post it. I think if he cuts capacity it will allow the LCCs to grow a lot more easily.

Bastian also said they are preparing their route case for Haneda slots; in case there was anybody who thought they might not apply. Doubtful there was...
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:10 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):

He's Chairman of the Board. I wouldn't say he has left DL. Something political like Fair Skies is probably something he can stay involved in from his new position as it does not involve day to day operations.

nope. Not how this works.
He might stay involved as a US citizen but Ed has already addressed this issue with employees and he made it very clear the current management team is going to be the ones heading up issues in DC.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):

DL Response: "This is our #1 priority in Washington. We have reason to believe the U.S. govt will do the right thing, but it will take time. Nothing is imminent."

This can't be true. You tell us how they are losing the battle. So does Mav.

I know both of you know more than anyone at DL ever could.

Quoting stburke (Reply 9):

insane indeed. Who do they think they are? trying to be a profitable company.
drag em through the streets!

 
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:18 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this. The amount of political capital they're wasting on a dead end is right up there with several other DL battles they're also losing, and UA's award winning Pyrrhic loss over HOU.
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
DL Response: "This is our #1 priority in Washington. We have reason to believe the U.S. govt will do the right thing, but it will take time. Nothing is imminent."

At the CAPA Americas conference in LAS earlier this week, the State Department indicated that a ruling is still in process and that it would address concerns of all parties.

Doug Parker also made it clear that this issue was AA's #1 priority in Washington at the moment. Delta isn't alone on this one, despite the general perception.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
insane indeed. Who do they think they are? trying to be a profitable company.
drag em through the streets!

A myopic company only seeking to appease the shareholders and bump share price but not solidify their strategic positions. This isn't about being profitable, it's willingly leaving themselves vulnerable to competition and complaining when competitors take advantage of it and then reducing capacity again, and then complaining when competitors take advantage. It's a circle they created themselves.

Major US airlines in 5-10 years:
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 1):
He should already be grateful that ME3 is entirely absent in many of his fortress hubs like DTW MSP SLC.

It's exactly why he's fearful. He know where the the ME3 are coming next. DL and its Skyteam partners do scant business in South Asia. They aren't losing pax to the ME3 that UA and Star Alliance, or AA and Oneworld are. But they know where the next ME3 expansion wave will be....
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:23 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
This can't be true. You tell us how they are losing the battle.

When did I say that?
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:27 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 1):
He should already be grateful that ME3 is entirely absent in many of his fortress hubs like DTW MSP SLC

More than likely, within 3-5 years TK will add DFW, SEA, DTW and couple more in the US.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:33 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 14):
DL and its Skyteam partners do scant business in South Asia.

They already have everything lined up at AMS - DL KL 9W. It's up to them to really get the scissor hub going than just DEL+BOM.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:38 pm

Quoting stburke (Reply 13):

A myopic company only seeking to appease the shareholders and bump share price but not solidify their strategic positions. This isn't about being profitable, it's willingly leaving themselves vulnerable to competition and complaining when competitors take advantage of it and then reducing capacity again, and then complaining when competitors take advantage. It's a circle they created themselves.

Oh boy.
1) yes, they are trying to appease their owners. Welcome to public companies 101. That is their job.
2) they are cutting back on capacity into places where EVERYONE is cutting back on capacity. (i.e. Brazil) So what competition are they going to worry about?

People like you are exactly why this industry has been such a complete s**t show.

Oh and more importantly not a single person at DL said they "would" cut capacity, Glen said the airline will cut capacity IF THEY NEED it.

Quoting ytz (Reply 14):
But they know where the next ME3 expansion wave will be....

I agree. The world will end for DL the moment SLC-DXB starts.

And for everyone else because hell would have frozen over. But great news for all of the 3 people that would fly on the flight.

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):

When did I say that?

you never just "say" but that is what you insinuate
Also knowing your political opinion on the US airlines, you wouldn't start threads about it all the time if you didn't think it was going your way.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Reply 15):

When did I say that?

you never just "say" but that is what you insinuate

So you have nothing but a feeling of what you think I want to say. Pretty sad... FYI, after that admission is when most people would apologize.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
2) they are cutting back on capacity into places where EVERYONE is cutting back on capacity. (i.e. Brazil) So what competition are they going to worry about?

The comment related to overall declines in RASM and how they would be reversed. There was no reason to think it applied to Brazil or a specific region from the audio.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
And for everyone else because hell would have frozen over. But great news for all of the 3 people that would fly on the flight.

There are connecting passengers. Some of DL's AMS flights are only about 5% local traffic.

For comparison, ATL-AMS is 4.8% O&D traffic for the last 12 months. PHL-DOH (which is frequently cited as the worst offender) is 3.1%. Not sure that is a significant difference.

[Edited 2016-04-14 08:51:40]
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:07 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 12):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this. The amount of political capital they're wasting on a dead end is right up there with several other DL battles they're also losing, and UA's award winning Pyrrhic loss over HOU.
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
DL Response: "This is our #1 priority in Washington. We have reason to believe the U.S. govt will do the right thing, but it will take time. Nothing is imminent."

At the CAPA Americas conference in LAS earlier this week, the State Department indicated that a ruling is still in process and that it would address concerns of all parties.

Doug Parker also made it clear that this issue was AA's #1 priority in Washington at the moment. Delta isn't alone on this one, despite the general perception.

USofA have a lot of military, business, etc. with the the UAE as well as Qatar. Ending/changing bilaterals as well as changing/revoking open skies are major transactions. I don't see it happening anytime soon..even if someway Trump wins the presidency.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:29 pm

DL pretty much abandoned JFK-IST market except 4 months in a year. All he has to do is take the TK flight in Y or C and compare it to his own airline's product. TK has been very successful in terms of meeting the market demand and it will become even more of a threat when the new airport in Istanbul opens.
Now much he can do about it as the cost of operation between TK and DL are light years apart.
Earthbound misfit I
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 5):
Richard left Delta a while ago,He is no longer the CEO
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 8):
Richard is now telling Ed Bastian what to do? I love anet. I really do.

Oh excuuuuuuuse me. The song is totally different now that Ed is in charge. 
Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
All 4 primary candidates left have had to pander on protectionism in the primaries.

I think cheap passenger fares trump protectionism here, no pun intended. Protecting the US carriers would be politically difficult; everyone hates them.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:36 pm

Quoting stburke (Reply 13):

A myopic company only seeking to appease the shareholders and bump share price but not solidify their strategic positions. This isn't about being profitable, it's willingly leaving themselves vulnerable to competition and complaining when competitors take advantage of it and then reducing capacity again, and then complaining when competitors take advantage. It's a circle they created themselves.

Myopic??


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...nes-announces-march-110000608.html
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
peanuts
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Fair Skies

Pardon my cynicism. We're so being played. The name alone implies bias. It's political grandstanding.
It's manipulative to the hilt. There's nothing "fair" about business.
It's about lobbyists, influence and money.

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
If you are right, we may have seen a hint of the future after the U.S. election resets the playing field.
Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It is possible the next U.S. President will be considerably more protectionist. All 4 primary candidates left have had to pander on protectionism in the primaries.

C'mon. This current cabal in DC is so egalitarian in saving their own butt it's not even funny. Left, Right, it's all the same. State Departments are such colossal established monster operations it's so hard to even move the scale a tiny bit anymore when one puppet...eeeeh...president gets elected.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:01 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 24):
it's so hard to even move the scale a tiny bit anymore when one puppet...eeeeh...president gets elected.

Agree on that.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 24):
Pardon my cynicism. We're so being played. The name alone implies bias.

Of course it's biased. It's a creation to improve AA/DL/UA's fortunes, as you would expect them to.

What I think is galling is that this will ultimately be settled by politicians because the American public hardly paid any attention to this in the first place. Whatever is ultimately decided will be mostly invisible to the American people and that means pretty much any outcome is possible. The political argument is basically lower fares for consumers vs. protecting the home team. Both are politically salient at the moment where you have bills to limit airline fee pricing AND politicians from both parties threatening to repeal free trade. Things will definitely look different next year, but I'm not sure in what way.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
Oh boy.
1) yes, they are trying to appease their owners. Welcome to public companies 101. That is their job.
2) they are cutting back on capacity into places where EVERYONE is cutting back on capacity. (i.e. Brazil) So what competition are they going to worry about?

1) My point is their approach is shortsighted and provides no long-term value on the basis they're not being competitive when and where they should be and would rather bemoan.

2) You sure about that? Just Brazil? Domestically, looks like our small players are starting to make moves to improve their positions while the legacies are too busy protecting Wall Streets favorite metric for the year, unit revenue, through capacity discipline and risk aversion and bank on low fuel and high stock prices. Here's July's capacity YoY. DL, reaaly making some moves.

AA 2.4%
AS 6.0%
B6 6.0%
DL 2.7%
F9 26.9%
NK 20.6%
UA 0.9%
VX 16.3%
WN 2.2%

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
People like you are exactly why this industry has been such a complete s**t show.

Yes, resort to ad hominem attacks to discredit my arguments and bolter yours. And what "s**t show"?? Things have't been this good for legacies in a while.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):

So you have nothing but a feeling of what you think I want to say. Pretty sad...

Its a pretty safe bet. You post in a certain way all the time. Its not hard to figure out your motive with these threads.

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
FYI, after that admission is when most people would apologize.

What am I apologizing for? If I am wrong then you sure have done a really bad job of showing it.

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):

The comment related to overall declines in RASM and how they would be reversed. There was no reason to think it applied to Brazil or a specific region from the audio.

I know what they were referring too.
but it isn't rocket science to figure out where a capacity cut is going to come from IF it comes.

Ed was asked about this by an employee the other day. DL isn't in the business of cutting profitable routes. So pick a target of all the markets that suck right now, Brazil was just an example, and that is where the capacity is coming from. They damn sure aren't cutting ATL-CDG.

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):

There are connecting passengers. Some of DL's AMS flights are only about 5% local traffic.

Okay, all 6 people that would use the flight and connecting flights.
I mean I guess some people could fly SLC-DXB-LHR but I can promise if they are DL isn't getting upset about it. No one is going to fly that route and be a HVC

DL already knows ATL-DXB/DOH/AUH isn't going to work, they also know it has even less of a chance of working from DTW/MSP/SLC. Matter of fact the ME adding those places just puts more bullets in the gun for DL/AA/UA. It isn't hard to see all this capacity being tossed at the US is losing money, but adding 3 flights to the ME from a place like SLC really proves they are just adding capacity to add it. I'm willing to bet DL hopes the ME are stupid enough to add some places like that.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
He may have misspoke, but I think it implies they don't really consider a difference between TK and the ME3 carriers (EY/EK/QR). It will be interesting to see if that implies a future political effort against TK as well.

He may indeed have misspoke, but clearly he thinks of TK in a similar vein. Otherwise it wouldn't have come out. Interesting comment. Long been the time to stop whining though.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 5):
Richard left Delta a while ago,He is no longer the CEO
The CEO now Ed!!!

Technically Richard is still the CEO for a couple more weeks, although I haven't heard one thing from him since the announcement of his retirement. Either way Ed speaks from the same mouthpiece.
 
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:30 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
I just don't understand how Richard/DL thinks they'll win anything worthwhile with this.

Substitute Ed for Richard and   

There's not a thing the US government should do about it, and DL is wasting its breath lobbying the US government. Closing skies to the ME3 would just hurt US travelers without any benefit. The parties that need to step up are the governments of Abu Dhabi and Dubai (entirely possible), Turkey (unlikely), and Qatar (   ), to impose modern labor laws and management requirements on these airlines. That is the only thing that would really help level the playing field, not to mention reducing a lot of human suffering.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:06 pm

Quoting stburke (Reply 26):

1) My point is their approach is shortsighted and provides no long-term value on the basis they're not being competitive when and where they should be and would rather bemoan.

Really? You are saying DL is short sighted? That is why they are doing things like paying down debt and putting more money than they have to into the pension plan? Short sighted would be taking that money and buying more stock with it.

Quoting stburke (Reply 26):

Yes, resort to ad hominem attacks to discredit my arguments and bolter yours. And what "s**t show"?? Things have't been this good for legacies in a while.

Exactly, things have NEVER been this good. So lets start tossing money losing capacity at cites and ordering aircraft like its 1999 again. It worked so damn great the first 7 times the airlines have tried your method post deregulation we should do it again!  
Quoting stburke (Reply 26):

2) You sure about that? Just Brazil? Domestically, looks like our small players are starting to make moves to improve their positions while the legacies are too busy protecting Wall Streets favorite metric for the year, unit revenue, through capacity discipline and risk aversion and bank on low fuel and high stock prices. Here's July's capacity YoY. DL, reaaly making some moves.

Wait, now we are going from you complaining about cutting capacity to 3% capacity growth
so which is it? You need to pick a target and stop trying to throw crap against a wall seeing what sticks.

and on your new point, the legacies aren't throwing capacity at the domestic market compared to airlines like NK or F9 because they don't need too. Why would they? Their networks are much more mature which means they don't need to grow 20% yoy (plus all kinds of other things like different PAX targets and such)
Where the legacies need to grow (example, LAX and SEA for DL) they are pushing larger amounts of capacity than the system average.
But taking a hub like ATL and adding capacity just to be cool is kind of a stupid argument and very 1999 in thinking. (i.e. terrible for the industry)

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):
The parties that need to step up are the governments of Abu Dhabi and Dubai (entirely possible), Turkey (unlikely), and Qatar (   ), to impose modern labor laws and management requirements on these airlines. That is the only thing that would really help level the playing field, not to mention reducing a lot of human suffering.

So then we just are going to sit back and watch as nothing happens is your point?   
 
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enilria
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:08 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 27):
I know what they were referring too.
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 27):
but it isn't rocket science to figure out where a capacity cut is going to come from IF it comes.
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
you never just "say" but that is what you insinuate

Your powers of telepathy appear to be impressive...to you.

In listening to the call (did you listen to the call?) I took the capacity cut to be more or less across the board, although any interpretation is pure speculation.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 27):
Okay, all 6 people that would use the flight and connecting flights.
I mean I guess some people could fly SLC-DXB-LHR but I can promise if they are DL isn't getting upset about it.

I guess you haven't seen the loads on PHL-DOH. Check T100. They have not proposed SLC-DOH to my knowledge. BTW, there are 34,000 passengers/year between Utah and MidEast/India. That's a nice start. LDS I suspect is a major part of it.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 27):
DL already knows ATL-DXB/DOH/AUH isn't going to work,

So if it can't work, why did DL fly ATL-DXB for years? Are you suggesting they purposefully lost money for years flying it? I don't think that. I'm losing confidence in your powers of telepathy.

Also, if the route was unprofitable as you suggest for DL all these years, why does that automatically mean that it would be unprofitable for EK? They have completely different route networks to connect to the flights.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):
to impose modern labor laws

Although as I was reading the most recent report on the treatment of pilots at UAE carriers, I was thinking you could simply substitute a U.S. regional and make pretty much the same points. Being a pilot is a grueling and tedious job almost anywhere, at least nowadays.

[Edited 2016-04-14 11:13:21]
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:34 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

In listening to the call (did you listen to the call?) I took the capacity cut to be more or less across the board, although any interpretation is pure speculation.

Of course i listened to it.
That isn't what I took from it at all. IMO you are putting words in his mouth.

I'm sure they will look across the system (it would be foolish not too) but like I said, we all know where the capacity will comes from.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

I guess you haven't seen the loads on PHL-DOH. Check T100. They have not proposed SLC-DOH to my knowledge. BTW, there are 34,000 passengers/year between Utah and MidEast/India. That's a nice start. LDS I suspect is a major part of it.

Okay let me say this a different way,
all 6 people that are going to fly on it that might be profitable. I can fill a 777 to DXB pretty easily with EK network, but if I charge 3 dollars a ticket then who really cares about load factor?

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

So if it can't work, why did DL fly ATL-DXB for years? Are you suggesting they purposefully lost money for years flying it? I don't think that. I'm losing confidence in your powers of telepathy.

Is this a real question? I question your understanding of the industry even more, and i didn't think that was possible.

why don't you look at the industry and capacity of US-DXB when DL(and UA) started there flights and compare it to now. Then add in the capacity from DOH and AUH. I think you will see just a little bit of a increase.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

Also, if the route was unprofitable as you suggest for DL all these years, why does that automatically mean that it would be unprofitable for EK? They have completely different route networks to connect to the flights.

DL has said it was unprofitable for the last few years. They have point blank said that.
and everyone else will have the same problems to the region because of all the over capacity.

honest question, have you listened or read anything the US carriers have said about the issue ever? They have made all this perfectly clear.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

Although as I was reading the most recent report on the treatment of pilots at UAE carriers, I was thinking you could simply substitute a U.S. regional and make pretty much the same points. Being a pilot is a grueling and tedious job almost anywhere, at least nowadays.

Not even close. When you get a chance just google about it. Some really bad things going on over there.

100X for Qatar where its basically slave labor.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:02 pm

I love the fanboyism in these DL threads...could you all make it any less obvious?
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
stburke
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 30):
Really? You are saying DL is short sighted? That is why they are doing things like paying down debt and putting more money than they have to into the pension plan? Short sighted would be taking that money and buying more stock with it.

Buybacks are continuing as part of the $5 Billion already announced and accelerating, cash flows are likely to exceed $5 Billion and we'll see more. I fail to see your point.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 30):
Exactly, things have NEVER been this good. So lets start tossing money losing capacity at cites and ordering aircraft like its 1999 again. It worked so damn great the first 7 times the airlines have tried your method post deregulation we should do it again!  

So making money is a s**t show? Your use of euphemisms is odd. Lest we forget the regional partner blood bath that is going on, in which case, yes, a s**t show indeed.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 30):
Wait, now we are going from you complaining about cutting capacity to 3% capacity growth
so which is it? You need to pick a target and stop trying to throw crap against a wall seeing what sticks.

and on your new point, the legacies aren't throwing capacity at the domestic market compared to airlines like NK or F9 because they don't need too. Why would they?

My point is legacies exhibit capacity discipline to protect their almighty unit revenue and leave markets vulnerable to carriers who are willing to gobble it up. Delta Airlines' president, Ed Bastian in June, 2015: Delta is “continuing with the discipline that the marketplace is expecting.”
If they don't feel the need to why did AA get competitive with DK at DFW? Why did DL introduce the economy basic class? Because they ARE a threat, regardless of what your fearless leaders say. DL's complacency will be delicious.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 33):
I love the fanboyism in these DL threads...could you all make it any less obvious?

The same kind of fanboyism there is for the ME3? About how people on here marvel at the way the Gulf airlines can order more A380s than god(claim there's an urgent need for it), pretend that they actually are profitable assets(with all expenditures written off by the royal family), and that if they were structured in the same privatized manner as the rest of the modern free world, that they wouldn't collapse inside of a day? That kind of fanboyism?
Made from jets!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:03 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 33):

I love the fanboyism in these DL threads...could you all make it any less obvious?

change the airline to UA or AA and I'll say the somethings.
I happen to be a fan of making money, not operating a loss making airline on the backs of tax payers. Crazy idea I know.

Quoting stburke (Reply 34):

Buybacks are continuing as part of the $5 Billion already announced and accelerating, cash flows are likely to exceed $5 Billion and we'll see more. I fail to see your point.


no no no. Short term airlines don't do what I said though. So when is this short sighted DL changing the debt/pension/re-fleeting/capex etc. etc. plan and pumping that money into the buy backs?

Quoting stburke (Reply 34):

So making money is a s**t show? Your use of euphemisms is odd.

I can't believe how hard this is for you to get.

What you want to see the legacies do, tossing capacity into the market just because and then the losses that comes with that is the sh*t show.

Quoting stburke (Reply 34):
Lest we forget the regional partner blood bath that is going on, in which case, yes, a s**t show indeed.

Should we compare it to the slave labor in Qatar?

Quoting stburke (Reply 34):

My point is legacies exhibit capacity discipline to protect their almighty unit revenue and leave markets vulnerable to carriers who are willing to gobble it up. Delta Airlines' president, Ed Bastian in June, 2015: Delta is “continuing with the discipline that the marketplace is expecting.”

I'm confused, where is DL cutting capacity and "leaving markets vulnerable to carriers who are willing to gobble it up"?

Again, DL is up in capacity yoy so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Do you want them to chase a money losing market (with their costs) like what NK/G4 are after? Fly routes internationally that lose money like DXB? I don't really get it.

Quoting stburke (Reply 34):

If they don't feel the need to why did AA get competitive with DK at DFW? Why did DL introduce the economy basic class? Because they ARE a threat, regardless of what your fearless leaders say. DL's complacency will be delicious.

What does defending against other airlines have to do with it?

Your point is still all over the place here.

What is your problem exactly? Either they are cutting capacity no wait now its that they aren't adding enough but no its that they do add capacity to defend their hubs but I guess that somehow means they should add more capacity that isn't related to the hubs

yeah, really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I think its that you want to see the US3 add a bunch of loss making capacity just for fun, but I'm honestly not sure.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 35):

*drops mic*
 
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enilria
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 32):
why don't you look at the industry and capacity of US-DXB when DL(and UA) started there flights and compare it to now. Then add in the capacity from DOH and AUH.

So what you are saying is that nothing can possibly make money in hubs with large capacity increases. Hmm. BTW, fun fact, SEA has a larger % increase in departing seats than DXB since 2013.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 32):
all 6 people that are going to fly on it that might be profitable. I can fill a 777 to DXB pretty easily with EK network, but if I charge 3 dollars a ticket then who really cares about load factor?

These seem like massive exaggerations used to make a point, but if you believe them then who am I to show you actual data.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):

So what you are saying is that nothing can possibly make money in hubs with large capacity increases. Hmm. BTW, fun fact, SEA has a larger % increase in departing seats than DXB since 2013.

Hubs that have that small of a market to the US, you are damn right.

SEA to DXB isn't a apples to apples comparison.

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):

These seem like massive exaggerations used to make a point, but if you believe them then who am I to show you actual data.

So you can show me the data that proves the US carriers are wrong?

Well lets see it? I would be nice if someone would show it to the world.
 
panamair
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:41 pm

The funny thing is, it wasn't even Ed who said it....and the context wasn't even Fair Skies...it was about TATL industry capacity growth this summer.
 
IPFreely
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:06 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It is possible the next U.S. President will be considerably more protectionist. All 4 primary candidates left have had to pander on protectionism in the primaries

Three of them have had ample opportunity to actually do something about this as U.S. Senators and/or Secretary of State. None of them have done anything to promote protectionism. None of them have even attempted to do anything. Their actions speak louder than their current pandering.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:35 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 38):
Quoting enilria (Reply 37):

So what you are saying is that nothing can possibly make money in hubs with large capacity increases. Hmm. BTW, fun fact, SEA has a larger % increase in departing seats than DXB since 2013.

Hubs that have that small of a market to the US, you are damn right.

I guess it's easier to make statements without any facts than researching the data. I showed you % local on DOH-PHL vs AMS-ATL. Your argument is much worse on DXB. Another example, DFW-DXB is 17% local traffic, MSP-AMS is 7%. DL wasn't flying to DXB to connect to EK. They are very smart. They know there is a local market there growing like a weed. The numbers in your head for your DXB arguments are from 20 years ago. Your assessment of DOH is closer to accurate, but even DOH is not that out of line with AMS or KEF in terms of the ratio of local traffic to total traffic (% local).

Quoting panamair (Reply 39):
it was about TATL industry capacity growth this summer.

But he used the term "ME3" which is pretty much tied to Fair Skies. I don't know if it even existed before that...

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 40):
Their actions speak louder than their current pandering.

As it regards air travel, I'll be anxious to see.
 
dubaiamman243
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:40 am

why does DL do the talking every time?
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
IPFreely
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:24 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 41):
As it regards air travel, I'll be anxious to see.

Just see if you can find one major piece of legislation that was passed or even introduced by Sen. Cruz, Sen. Clinton, or Sen. Sanders regarding trade or specifically air travel protectionism.

Come to think of it, see if you can find anything they accomplished at all in their many combined years in the Senate.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:48 am

Quoting dubaiamman243 (Reply 42):
why does DL do the talking every time?

Because they're the ones that feel they have the most to lose.
Made from jets!
 
upwardfacing
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:19 am

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 20):
USofA have a lot of military, business, etc. with the the UAE as well as Qatar. Ending/changing bilaterals as well as changing/revoking open skies are major transactions.

Before the Iran nuclear deal was even completed, the White House invited all Gulf Co-operation Council countries to Camp David for a summit to reinforce its commitment to their security. (Many of the leaders actually snubbed the invitation.)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-gulf-idUSKBN0NZ0BI20150514

Ties between the GCC and USA run long and deep along the military/security/intelligence sphere. There is a lot of non-defence/non-government business as well. Given that the countries hosting the ME3 carriers are critical to US geostrategic interests, it is difficult to see how the US government can afford to anatagonise them in any significant way.

What does Delta (or American or United) *really* think will come out of the US Department of State resolution of the issue?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:42 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 30):
So then we just are going to sit back and watch as nothing happens is your point?

Maybe. My point is there's not a lot Delta can do about it one way or the other, especially not by complaining to the US government.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 35):
About how people on here marvel at the way the Gulf airlines can order more A380s than god(claim there's an urgent need for it), pretend that they actually are profitable assets(with all expenditures written off by the royal family), and that if they were structured in the same privatized manner as the rest of the modern free world, that they wouldn't collapse inside of a day? That kind of fanboyism?

This may be somewhat true of QR, but EK is a profitable enterprise, and doesn't receive subsidies. It relies on some bad public policy to be profitable (exploitative labor laws in particular) but all those A380s are profitable no matter how you slice it.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:49 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
So if it can't work, why did DL fly ATL-DXB for years? Are you suggesting they purposefully lost money for years flying it?

You (nor anyone else here) don't have access to the info to say. For all any of us know, the ATL-DXB segment may not have been profitable as a standalone (I'd be surprised if it was), but it may have allowed for network connections that were of a net benefit to the carrier--- until they weren't.

IINM, when DL launched that flight, the only ME3 nonstops to the USA were to JFK and IAH.
Now, they serve nearly everywhere with a 3000nm+ stretch of concrete.

That *has* to have affected the flows into DL's flight, and apparently, it became too much for them to justify.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
nitepilot79
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:41 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 33):
I love the fanboyism in these DL threads...could you all make it any less obvious?

Don't forget about QF threads, oh boy  . Miss one little tiny fact or announcement, and you better hold the phone, 'cause the sky will fall. However I can understand the frustration when "QANTAS" is spelled: "QUANTAS".

[Edited 2016-04-15 00:46:14]
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL CEO Speaks Of "ME3", Potentially Including TK

Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:04 pm

TK has grown exponentially over the last few years. They recently took delivery of its 300th aircraft, an A330-300. Their service standards have greatly improved and they are definitely a force to be reckoned with. Should TK decide to use Fifth Freedom rights it could mean trouble for all US carriers.

Delta can always be counted on to defend their markets including cities that they have on their radar for future growth or increased service. The ME3 represents a serious threat, particularly EK with its massive "air force" of A380's. It forced DL to drop Dubai and they were not happy. I do agree with Ed Bastian that Qatar's service to Doha is probably not sustainable out of ATL.

It will take the intervention of the US government to make any changes to the status quo and that is simply not going to happen with the current house and senate.

Perhaps the answer is for Delta to use their Fifth Freedom routes to fly via DXB and Doha onward to India, Thailand, Singapore or Manila with their A350's, scheduled to come online in 2017. The ability to fight back against government subsidized carriers is very limited.
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