Amiga500
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:12 am

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 147):
Looks like BBD will achieve an additional 5% in fuel economy with new winglets for their CS300s. Current winglets were optimized for the CS100

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/bombardi....html

Complete utter bull.

The aer group might get 0.5% from a tweaked winglet. Not 5%.



Sylvain Faust so desperately wants the CSeries to succeed he has lost all objectivity.
 
ytz
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:25 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 138):
You are damn right Boeing is selling those old models for next to nothing. Get on the moral victory bus all you want. Moral victories don't put dollars in bank accounts.

So it doesn't matter how many MAXs or NEOs AB/B are selling compared to BBD, what matters is, so far, BBD is losing orders to the other three OEMs and the only good order they have is because of politics.
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 138):
You are damn right Boeing is selling those old models for next to nothing. Get on the moral victory bus all you want. Moral victories don't put dollars in bank accounts.
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 138):
Its been working out hasn't it? very few orders. failing company. lay offs. Tax payers now having to come to the rescue.

I agree, more companies should try to fail. Completely logical.

You must work for Boeing or something. I don't. What's your talking points going to be when Boeing shuts down the NG line and transitions to the MAX?

Even Boeing is smart enough to move on to the 7.5 and admit the 7 MAX isn't selling. Random a.net dude? Not so much.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 142):
Brand equity doesn't mean profits. That is my point.

Ask the CEO of Apple, Pepsi, Boeing, etc. if brand equity doesn't equal profits. Heck, I doubt Delta's own CMO would agree with you.

What I was talking about here was brand differentiation. Where everybody flies the same mainline Y product, with the same narrow seats, the same limited luggage space, the same small windows, and same seat pitch, the CSeries does offer enough of a comfort margin to project an airline's brand in a better light.
That said, it is of course, all things considered. And airlines don't seem to think the brand halo matters that much....which is why I'm happy to see carriers like JetBlue, Alaska, Hawaiian, and Virgin grow....
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:33 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 150):
Sylvain Faust so desperately wants the CSeries to succeed he has lost all objectivity.

I mean he lost that long ago. What probably happen is he heard that it would save 5% in fuel over the life of the aircraft or something like that where in typical Sylvain Faust speech the qualifiers get dropped and it is now 5% more fuel efficient.
 
ytz
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 150):

The aer group might get 0.5% from a tweaked winglet. Not 5%.



Sylvain Faust so desperately wants the CSeries to succeed he has lost all objectivity.

Agreed. 5% would be incredible. I struggle to see how you can optimize a winglet from one platform to another and get 5%. Especially when the CS300 is only 10% bigger.
 
AirbusCanada
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 146):
. Commonality: Like you mentioned above UA has an absolutely massive fleet of 737s already in service. They already have the equipment and training in place to support the aircraft from day one. Putting a new type into service is extremely cost intensive even more so when its a new type from a new (to the airline) manufacturer.

Commonality is way overblown in this forum. After a certain number of aircraft (between 30-50), return from fleet commonality diminishes at a very drastic rate. After that magic number threshold, youneed to hire additional personal and equipment to support those aircraft.

Let's try to give a very simple example:

Let's say you have a fleet of 500 737-800. You have optimized equipment and head count to support those equipment.
If you like to add 10 additional aircraft, sticking with 737 will make sense as you might be able to get 1 or 2 percent productivity out of your existing infrastructure.

Now you want to grow your capacity by 10%, (50 additional aircraft) and you need to invest to expand your support in-fracture by 10%, regardless of the fleet type. That includes pilots, simulators, spares, hanger, maintenance personal space etc.

Quoting United1 (Reply 146):
Bombardier itself: I am reasonably confident in 30 years Boeing will still be in the business of building aircraft and supporting those aircraft. I'm not so sure about Bombardier...I'd like to think they would be as they build quality products for quite a few industries but there are some questions hanging over their collective heads. Ultimately I think UA wanted to ensure they didn't go through the same challenges that AA did with the F100 15 years ago when Fokker went under.

I am reasonably confident CSeries & GTF will be in production in 30 years, unlike the 737NG and CFM56.
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 154):
I am reasonably confident CSeries & GTF will be in production in 30 years, unlike the 737NG and CFM56.

Supporting an aircraft doesn't require it to be in production. Although 30 years from now Boeing will likely be pushing any remaining NG operators to newer aircraft.
 
United1
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:04 pm

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 154):
Commonality is way overblown in this forum.

Yes and no....remember you are talking about a type of aircraft that isn't supported by anyone as of yet. Commonality is way overblown when you are talking about adding a type of aircraft that either the airline has at least a passing familiarity with or at least is supported by other companies....

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 154):
I am reasonably confident CSeries & GTF will be in production in 30 years, unlike the 737NG and CFM56.

Will see....I'm not convinced Bombardier has the financials in place to still exist as a company. I'm sure some engine that uses what we learned from operating the GTF will be around but I doubt the PW1000G itself will still be produced...the airlines/manufactures will have moved on to more efficient designs.

Quoting ytz (Reply 153):
Agreed. 5% would be incredible. I struggle to see how you can optimize a winglet from one platform to another and get 5%. Especially when the CS300 is only 10% bigger.

The only way I could see 5% happening is is Bombardier completely screwed up the wiglet design in the first place...I doubt that is the case.
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tlecam
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 149):
And that is what Boeing is truly afraid of.

I agree. And Airbus as well.

I think that DL is shrewd enough to factor long term market dynamics into a decision. That might not be immediately popular for the wall street crowd, which is notoriously short sighted, but it will pay off from a longer term perspective.

Of course, it will also pay off for their competitors too.

How much weight DL gives to that will depend on pricing of course.
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scbriml
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:17 pm

ATDB's weekly newsletter (subscription only) reports that DL has ordered 37 x A321ceo and 75 (+50) x CS300. Both orders to be announced on 16th May.
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Boeing778X
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 142):
Again, if the CS was as great as some on here make it out to be the orders would be rolling in.
Quoting lostsound (Reply 143):
Just because the CS300 isn't sinking in orders doesn't mean it's not a next-gen more efficient solution to narrow body aircraft.

   Low sales =/= Inferior product. Silly statement!

Quoting scbriml (Reply 158):
ATDB's weekly newsletter (subscription only) reports that DL has ordered 37 x A321ceo and 75 (+50) x CS300. Both orders to be announced on 16th May.

Sounds awesome! Look forward to the announcement   
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Prost
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:11 pm

So no CS100s? Does this mean that there's some room for some Embraer's on the lower end still?
 
AirbusCanada
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:27 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 156):
Yes and no....remember you are talking about a type of aircraft that isn't supported by anyone as of yet. Commonality is way overblown when you are talking about adding a type of aircraft that either the airline has at least a passing familiarity with or at least is supported by other companies....

That is a new aircraft type problem, not a CSeries specific problem. That is why airlines get additional discount and support for being a launch operator for a new type.

Quoting polot (Reply 155):
Supporting an aircraft doesn't require it to be in production. Although 30 years from now Boeing will likely be pushing any remaining NG operators to newer aircraft.

This should applies to CSeries as well, if BBD goes out of business.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 160):
So no CS100s? Does this mean that there's some room for some Embraer's on the lower end still?

I believe some CS100s will come from those options.
 
UA444
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:53 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 156):
m sure some engine that uses what we learned from operating the GTF will be around but I doubt the PW1000G itself will still be produced

Maybe a derivative or update of it. Look how long the CF6 and PW2000 have stayed in production. Plus PW will definitely be around in 30 years.
 
ytz
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:51 pm

Aside from the fact that the 717 fleet will hang on till the end of the next decade, would DL even want another 100 seater? They might just be happy with a smaller number of 120 seaters as 717 replacements.

For example. Take 75 CS300s now.

Buy the 738 Max, 320 NEO or CS500 in the next decade as 319/73G/320/738 replacements with extras. And then use the CS300 to replace the 717 fleet.

75 100 seaters = 90 120 seaters

A CS300 / CS500 combo would work really well for DL in this case. Even with timing of different replacements. It makes sense why DL was pushing for the CS500 as a condition to a CSeries order.

[Edited 2016-04-26 13:45:49]
 
Sooner787
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:07 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 158):
ATDB's weekly newsletter (subscription only) reports that DL has ordered 37 x A321ceo and 75 (+50) x CS300. Both orders to be announced on 16th May.

How much longer will the A321ceo's be in production?
I assume Airbus will switch over to all NEO's sooner than llater?
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:14 pm

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delimit
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:50 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 151):
Ask the CEO of Apple, Pepsi, Boeing, etc. if brand equity doesn't equal profits. Heck, I doubt Delta's own CMO would agree with you.

You really can't compare a company making products which sell to consumers for $500 to one selling products for $50,000,000 to other corporations. That's silliness.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:09 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 143):

The list price of a CS300 is 66.6 million dollars. Boeing sold their 737s for 22 million dollars. Boeing gave UA 3 737-700s for the price of one CS300.

Just stop. You already proved you have no idea what you are talking about.
no one bus airplanes at list prices. BBD is offering huge discounts just like B,AB and EMB.

Quoting ytz (Reply 151):

You must work for Boeing or something. I don't.

nope. Matter of fact if it were up to me DL would be ordering more 320s to replace the 88s. 737s are a pain in butt. The are low to ground which makes pulling panels a pain. Any kind of bin work sucks compared to the bus etc. etc.

having said that, I don't believe the CS is some magical aircraft crafted by God himself.

Quoting ytz (Reply 151):
What's your talking points going to be when Boeing shuts down the NG line and transitions to the MAX?

It won't really matter. At the end of the day Airbus and Boeing are producing enough NEOs and MAXs to do the same exact same. If Boeing or Airbus wants to come in under cut BBD with MAX/NEOs they will just like they are with CEOs and NGs.

Quoting ytz (Reply 151):

Even Boeing is smart enough to move on to the 7.5 and admit the 7 MAX isn't selling.

really? press release?

Quoting ytz (Reply 151):

Ask the CEO of Apple, Pepsi, Boeing, etc. if brand equity doesn't equal profits. Heck, I doubt Delta's own CMO would agree with you.

Apple, Pepsi and Boeing are airlines? when did that happen?

Lets look at what US airlines are doing right now, adding as many seats to airplanes as possible reducing things like lav space and pitch.
Again most PAX book on price, time and FF partnerships.

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 154):

Commonality is way overblown in this forum.

it is but it isn't. It will always be cheaper to have less types.
but for a network as large and global as DL/AA/UAs it makes sense to have "the right plane for the right route"

but IIRC United specifically pointed out commonality in the latest 737 order.

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 154):

I am reasonably confident CSeries & GTF will be in production in 30 years, unlike the 737NG and CFM56.

Boeing and CFM will still be supporting the 737NG and CFM56.
It isn't comparable to the F100.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 159):

   Low sales =/= Inferior product. Silly statement!

coming from you that is just laughable. You are the king of silly statements.

Having said that, again, if the CS was just a world beater it'd be selling like hot cakes. Listening to people like you on the airplane I can not figure out why BBD is about to go belly up and is losing orders to the 737-700.
Then I use common sense and figure it out. CASM (or insert any of anets over used metrics) is only a part of the airplane cost. Every airline that has talked about the CS says the same thing, cool plane but cost to much. It doesn't really matter which metric it is high in because at the end of the day it isn't selling. BDD can't get the numbers right. period.
 
stranger706
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:59 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 165):
How much longer will the A321ceo's be in production?
I assume Airbus will switch over to all NEO's sooner than llater?

Not sure about the plants in Europe or China, but Mobile will switch over around spring/summer of 2017.
 
papatango
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:05 am

Rumor that a C-100 will be in Atlanta on Thursday!
 
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:15 am

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 147):
Looks like BBD will achieve an additional 5% in fuel economy with new winglets for their CS300s. Current winglets were optimized for the CS100

Error... A digit off. I'm glad there is improvement, but the winglet change shown will help less than 2%_ much less.

Lightsaber
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ytz
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:36 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 168):

I never get so committed because experience has taught me to eat my words. What would you say if DL orders a ton of CSeries birds this week or next?

Will it still be a bad plane to you or will you think DL's management incompetent?
 
UA444
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:47 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 165):

As long as airlines are still buying, Airbus will keep offering the CEO. Sales a sale.
 
Dash9
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:21 am

BBD is bringing forward the release of their results one day forward to 2016-04-28 to coincide with the upcoming Delta media event.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/n...quarter-2016-fi.bombardiercom.html


Per Sylvain Faust they will have the first production CS100 visit the paint shop before heading to Atlanta on that same day.

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/some-inf...ng-april-28-and-29-1757333468.html


I really hope for BBD that they have that firm order in their pocket or else I don't know what to think of this!

-Dash9
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:28 am

Quoting papatango (Reply 170):
Rumor that a C-100 will be in Atlanta on Thursday!

Yep. As well as just about every aviation reporter in the country, sounds like.
Now you're flying smart
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:33 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 168):
coming from you that is just laughable. You are the king of silly statements.

Go ahead and elaborate, if you'd please.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 168):
Listening to people like you on the airplane I can not figure out why BBD is about to go belly up and is losing orders to the 737-700
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 133):
Oh wait. Maybe the talk of how awesome the aircraft is should settle down till it starts getting some real orders and stops getting beat by 737-700s.

I'm the king of silly statements?! Preposterous     

I still stand by my statement. Poor sales does not necessarily mean inferior product.

Is it expensive? Of course! Is it better than the 737-7? Looks like it! Otherwise, Boeing wouldn't be freaking out and announcing (yet) another 737 model to combat it.
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wjcandee
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:39 am

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 154):
Commonality is way overblown in this forum.

The more the commonality, the less each aircraft is optimal for the particular mission assigned to it.

Fleet simplification was a mantra for several years of the 22-year-old B-School graduates who populate the sheep-like Wall Street analyst ranks. Every freakin' conference call there was a question about it, at every airline. Because Southwest was profitable and the majors were having issues. That people trust their money to these nitwits always amazes me.

After DL showed them by its conduct and results that new isn't optimal and common isn't optimal, they have started to shut up about it. There will be a new fad coming along soon, though, I'm sure.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:44 am

Quoting papatango (Reply 170):

and BBD moved their earnings release up to Thursday as well. All signs point to a CS order.

Hope for BBD that the other three OEMs don't come in at the 23rd hour with a better deal.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:58 am

Quoting papatango (Reply 170):
Rumor that a C-100 will be in Atlanta on Thursday!

That would make sense given the article that was published earlier this morning.

http://www.bidnessetc.com/67859-eyes...d-bombardier-delta-air-lines-deal/

Essentially, an announcement is expected this week! If papatango is correct I guess an announcement would be made in ATL!
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting papatango (Reply 170):
Rumor that a C-100 will be in Atlanta on Thursday!

This would make sense if the article below is correct? The article states that an order is to be announced this week. If the CSeries is going to be in ATL on Thursday I would assume an announcement would be made then perhaps!
  

http://www.bidnessetc.com/67859-eyes...d-bombardier-delta-air-lines-deal/
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:53 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 158):
ATDB's weekly newsletter (subscription only) reports that DL has ordered 37 x A321ceo and 75 (+50) x CS300. Both orders to be announced on 16th May.

Sounds like the announcement has gotten moved up to this week, which makes sense.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:54 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 171):
Error... A digit off. I'm glad there is improvement, but the winglet change shown will help less than 2%_ much less.

I've realized that after my post from Mr. Faust's website was torn to shreds. LOL. I took his info at face value.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:17 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 181):
Sounds like the announcement has gotten moved up to this week, which makes sense.

Yes. I have no inside info on this, I was just repeating what ATDB had reported.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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n7371f
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:24 am

The DL, Bombardier order is happening. And for the few skeptics, look at Boeing's news the past week regarding a haphazard shrinking of the 737-8 MAX to try and match the CS-300.

The Bombardier order culminates years of work, originally started with NWA. The folks at the old Building A in Eagan really liked the initial plans for the CS-series and were taking a hard look at it - then Ch 11 and the merger happened. Some of those folks are now in ATL. Bottom line, DL has been intimate with the CS-series for a long time.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:00 pm

So, what happened to this thread? Another one was opened, I posted there, and then the other thread was removed. Last post here was nearly 18 hours ago.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 171):
Error... A digit off. I'm glad there is improvement, but the winglet change shown will help less than 2%_ much less.

Lightsaber


Lol, I realized that after my post was torn to shreds. I took Faust's info at face value.


Not sure if this means anything but there is Delta Private Jets flight plan filed for ATL - YMX tomorrow Thursday.
 
ytz
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 178):
All signs point to a CS order.

Given your prior posts, are you going to suggests that Delta management is incompetent for picking an inferior aircraft if this comes to pass?

Quoting n7371f (Reply 184):
And for the few skeptics, look at Boeing's news the past week regarding a haphazard shrinking of the 737-8 MAX to try and match the CS-300.

I was under the impression that the 7.5 Max is an attempt to pre-empt/ward off the hypothetical CS500. It wouldn't compete with the smaller CS300.

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 180):

I'd still be suspicious that DL would be using Bombardier as a stalking horse. That said, DL has an opportunity here to cut the deal of a lifetime. Akin to what MOL famously did with Boeing. DL could be the launch customer and order piles of airplanes. The CS500 would be a great replacement for the 319s, 320s, 73Gs, MD88s and MD90s. DL could get the deal of a century for half its narrowbody fleet. And line up its 717 replacement for a decade from now.

On the other hand, maybe Boeing or Airbus would offer them a decade long deal at huge discounts just to lock out Bombardier. Who knows....

Thursday is going to be interesting....
 
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william
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:55 pm

Anyone else not getting the latest responses on this post?
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:07 pm

Quoting william (Reply 188):
Anyone else not getting the latest responses on this po

Yep. I only see it if I click on the "check for new replies" button.
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:13 pm

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/delta-bombardier-update-1759281798.html

Finally??! I guess we will know within 24 hours!
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YYZYYT
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 85):

Apologies, I indeed read too fast!
Quoting papatango (Reply 170):
Rumor that a C-100 will be in Atlanta on Thursday!

Reuters is reporting it now, citing '2 sources familiar with the matter"... good news (as long as the "2 sources" aren't a.net posts):

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-results-idUSKCN0XN2R9

The article also notes that BBD have moved up the date for release of Q1 results to Thursday... some are speculating that the two events may be related.

[Edited 2016-04-27 13:08:30]
 
SpeckSpot
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RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:21 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 189):
Yep. I only see it if I click on the "check for new replies" button.

Yes me too. I need to "check for new replies" twice to get everything. Is this how the site has always worked?

Hoping for a good announcement for BBD and DL tomorrow!!
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 4059
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:22 pm

Imagine... the Boeing-Airbus-duopoly is coming to an end ... but a.net's forum collapsed on the very same day  
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2492
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:40 pm

There is Delta Private Jets flight plan scheduled for tomorrow Thursday for ATL- YMX is that means anything.
 
sebring
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:12 pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...s-planes-to-delta/article29771102/

The Delta order is expected to include a takeover of an earlier order for the C Series from Republic Airways Holdings Inc., which has 40 of the larger CS300 models of the plane on order, but went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection earlier this year.

Delta agreed to provide debtor-in-possession financing for Republic, court documents show.

Industry sources believe the financing deal and settlement of a previous filed lawsuit between Delta and Republic include a provision for Delta taking over the Republic C Series order. The financing deal would have given Delta access to Republic’s C Series contract and thus a strong hand in negotiating with Bombardier, one industry source said.

“Given the importance of the the deal to [the C Series’s] future, it is likely that the economics of this particular order – if it moves forward – would favour Delta,” JPMorgan analyst Seth Seifman said in an April 27 note. He said the aircraft program is unlikely to create value for Bombardier shareholders in the medium term.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2492
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting sebring (Reply 200):

RJET is making out like a bandit in Chpt 11. This would be a net gain of +35 planes & +35 options going off the RJET order for BBD. That leaves BBD 25 airplanes away from reaching their goal of 300 Orders at EIS. Once AC firms their order it will surpass BBD's goal. It was reported the AC will firm in the coming weeks.There is still another 130 CSeries commitments in la la land (not including Air Canada) which BBD hopes to get firmed.

I wonder what BBD has planned for the bird they are sending to ATL.

[Edited 2016-04-27 13:28:41]

[Edited 2016-04-27 13:29:10]
 
AirbusCanada
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:30 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 177):

The more the commonality, the less each aircraft is optimal for the particular mission assigned to it.
Fleet simplification was a mantra for several years of the 22-year-old B-School graduates who populate the sheep-like Wall Street analyst ranks. Every freakin' conference call there was a question about it, at every airline. Because Southwest was profitable and the majors were having issues. That people trust their money to these nitwits always amazes me.

After DL showed them by its conduct and results that new isn't optimal and common isn't optimal, they have started to shut up about it. There will be a new fad coming along soon, though, I'm sure.

           


The armchair pundits in this forums thinks fleet commonality trumps over everything, without providing single piece of evidence.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:10 pm

Quoting sebring (Reply 200):
He said the aircraft program is unlikely to create value for Bombardier shareholders in the medium term.

It's creating plenty of value for me, I bought at the nadir a gew weeks back. Stock Market is full of winners and losers. On this day, I'm winning.
 
kaneporta1
Posts: 733
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:22 am

RE: Delta To Place Narrowbody Order Part 3

Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:39 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 171):
Error... A digit off. I'm glad there is improvement, but the winglet change shown will help less than 2%_ much less.

The Cseries wingspan is 115 feet, 3 feet short of the ICAO category C, FAA Category III limit. a 3 foot increase translates to a 2.8% increase in span. Of course that does not necessarily mean a 2.8% gain in efficiency but shouldn't be far off. Add some other aero clean-up and weight optimization to the combo and a 5% gain in the next couple of years is not of the question.

Where's Planemaker these days?
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers

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