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afcjets
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:07 pm

Quoting outbackair (Reply 32):
Good to see that EasyJet apologised though, and refunded him in full. - '‘We acknowledge that we did not do enough to assist Mr Dewachi and have been in touch with him since to apologise for his experience, reimburse him and have resolved all outstanding issues.’

More airlines (Southwest?) need to do this.

In the US where lawsuits are probably more common than other parts of the world, an airline might feel giving a refund admits evidence of wrongdoing in case someone decided to sue.

[Edited 2016-04-17 10:14:21]
 
Heinkel
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:38 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 50):
If a crew member really wants someone off, the captain is not likely to object, because the crew member might walk off instead and the flight is cancelled or delayed for insufficient crew.

Isn't that behaviour called mutiny? I always read on A-net., that the captain has the final decision on everything on board of his ship. Now the FAs rule and the captain is just a puppet?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:07 pm

Quoting Heinkel (Reply 52):
Now the FAs rule and the captain is just a puppet?

You can't physically FORCE a flight attendant to work their flight; if they elect to walk off an aircraft that's parked at the gate with the door open, at that moment your only recourse is to get a reserve FA aboard to meet minimum crew complement requirements to operate the flight.

Now of course, that flight attendant will have to explain to their supervisor why they walked off the aircraft - and THAT might result in discipline or discharge.
 
mham001
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 24):
please provide news coverage of white, christian males being moved from flights.

There would be no news coverage because it happens all the time and they are just white men, not worthy of news stories.
 
bgm
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 56):
There would be no news coverage because it happens all the time and they are just white men, not worthy of news stories.

Prove it.

The problem is, even if this is true, the white men you claim are all being pulled off without any story, are being pulled off due to their (mis)behavior. Not because they are white. Not because they are speaking English on their phone. Not because they're wearing a cowboy hat.

That is the issue here.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 57):
That is the issue here.

If that's the issue. We don't have all the facts, just a few bits of information that allow people who want to jump to conclusions to begin their leaps.
 
MaxxFlyer
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:03 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
BS. They just pander to the whims of the paranoid idiots. Do you know Muslims personally Have you ever worked, lived, studied with Muslims or have any other contact? I guess not.

Not sure it's total BS, but there's a major outbreak of xenophobia in this country. My next door neighbors are Muslim. A lot nicer than some of the others.

On the other hand, everyone thought the Tsarnaev brothers were really nice guys. The media needs to stop fanning the fires the wing-nuts in this nation are starting.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:18 pm

Quoting Heinkel (Reply 52):
Isn't that behaviour called mutiny? I always read on A-net., that the captain has the final decision on everything on board of his ship.

The captain isn't lord and master over all souls inside the aircraft. Pilots cannot force someone, even a crew member, to stay onboard against their will when the aircraft is on the ground.

[Edited 2016-04-17 16:23:44 by 777ER]
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:41 pm

She could have been deliberately trying to see how far the crew would take it in an attempt to get compensation. It's amazing how often passengers play the racism card to embellish a story (and Being Muslim is not a race, just a religion) so it's discriminatory yes, not racist but it is unacceptable if the was removed solely on those grounds.

nb: I am not saying she definitely was but it IS a possibility.

If on the other hand she was deliberately denied then she will be compensated and appeased until next time and the airline will get some bad press.

Here's the thing, There are many wonderful crew who are engaged, intelligent, diplomatic, pragmatic, logical and generous and I am friends with a number of them, but equally cabin crew can be an overly precious bunch to deal with on a day to day basis on all sorts of issues and some do take it too far.

They will hold a flight for a pint of milk or a single vegetarian meal or call out a specialist IFE engineer for one seat that is unoccupied on aircraft there and back, at great expense to the company. They will (try to )offload a passenger who is perfectly compliant with Airline SOPs and the passenger code of conduct with no real evidence to support their claim of "uncooperative with crew safety commands" and delay people from making connecting flights to offload thirbaggage. and they will call the Airport police to sort issues where no law has been broken I have seen many hundreds of examples over many thousands of flights of different Crew being overly precious over the last decade.

[Edited 2016-04-17 23:21:19 by 777ER]
 
sebring
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 59):


She could have been deliberately trying to see how far the crew would take it in an attempt to get compensation.

That seems pretty far-fetched. The people of non-white origin I know are always ultra-cautious about how they behave in scenarios like this - they are not going out of their way to court trouble, or get compensation.
 
NoTime
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:05 am

Quoting sebring (Reply 60):
That seems pretty far-fetched.

No more far-fetched than thinking that an otherwise normal FA, who until this point had served muslims without problem, would single out this one woman for expulsion from the aircraft with no valid reason.
 
777ER
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:38 am

Quoting reltney (Reply 38):

Yes the Moderator role isn't an easy job at times, but someone needs to do it.

The Moderators are keeping a close eye on this thread and are deleting posts that break the rules. I did a big deletion run in this thread yesterday and removed a massive amount of flame bait and racist/anti Muslim posts.

I posted the warning earlier as some members were really pushing the limits and some were very close to being suspended.

Regards

777ER
Head Forum Moderator
 
IPFreely
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:45 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 5):
Throwing persons, not being terrorists, or any danger at all, off airplanes, hardly enhances security.

Can you prove that everyone WN has removed from a flight is not a terrorist?
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:07 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 62):
Can you prove that everyone WN has removed from a flight is not a terrorist?

Likewise, you could ask the inverse: Can you prove that anyone WN has removed from a flight is a terrorist? I would be willing to bet that no one they've removed has meant actual malice towards the flight (excluding instances of intoxication or mental illness). Actual terrorists, Islamic fundamentalists or otherwise, comprise such a small number of people it's unquantifiable. At Al Qaeda's peak, the true number of actual operatives (not those simply seeking to associate themselves with the group, but legitimate, "card carrying" members) was only estimated in the hundreds. If someone was expelled from an aircraft, interviewed, and found to have terrorist links, it would have been all over the news. In just about every one of these cases, these passengers are rebooked to fly later.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:15 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 62):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 5):
Throwing persons, not being terrorists, or any danger at all, off airplanes, hardly enhances security.

Can you prove that everyone WN has removed from a flight is not a terrori

If one would have been arrested as a terrorist it would have been extensively reported. All the examples we are talking about here did not end with an arrest or detention. And all the examples involve dark skinned passengers.
 
sldispatcher
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:46 am

Quoting pdx88 (Reply 46):
Sounds like you're not so much upset with the situation as you are that this is about Southwest.

I don't fly Southwest...would have to drive 180 miles.

The thread was started BECAUSE of this woman's faith. The article, and thus the thread are made to make the airline look like they have an institutional policy against one person's faith. That is hogwash.

We don't know the full story. The FA is being demonized but due to corporate policy can probably never really tell their side of the story.

As far as I'm concerned, on any flight situation I am on...I want the pilot and crew to feel comfortable with the aircraft and situation they are in. Safety first. Any perception on their part that the aircraft or cabin environment is not going to be a safe and pleasant experience for the passengers warrants them to take action.

This is done every day...thousands of times a day. It is just so routine we don't even think about it.

I applaud flight crews all over the world that do their job..even when it inconveniences a passenger or two or has a potential black eye to the PR department of the airline regardless of country or creed.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:52 am

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 65):

As far as I'm concerned, on any flight situation I am on...I want the pilot and crew to feel comfortable with the aircraft and situation they are in. Safety first. Any perception on their part that the aircraft or cabin environment is not going to be a safe and pleasant experience for the passengers warrants them to take action.

Even if people are deplaned for reasons having nothing to do with safety and everything having to do with blatant prejudice?
 
alfa164
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:08 am

Quoting NoTime (Reply 60):
No more far-fetched than thinking that an otherwise normal FA, who until this point had served muslims without problem, would single out this one woman for expulsion from the aircraft with no valid reason.

How do we do that? Have you seen any evidence? For all we know, it could have been the FA's first flight...

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 62):
Can you prove that everyone WN has removed from a flight is not a terrorist?

Since not a single one of the passengers removed have been arrested or charged as terrorists, then the obvious answer is "yes".

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 56):
Not sure it's total BS, but there's a major outbreak of xenophobia in this country. My next door neighbors are Muslim. A lot nicer than some of the others. On the other hand, everyone thought the Tsarnaev brothers were really nice guys. The media needs to stop fanning the fires the wing-nuts in this nation are starting.

         Excellent post.

I don't believe wanting an aisle seat is a sign of terrorist intentions. If that were true, then I - and probably 80% of the fliers I know - would be accused of malice.
 
Brewfangrb
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:52 am

Quoting Prinair (Reply 3):

Nonsense.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 49):
I think after years of a relaxed attitude that led to some disasters, it's good to see more vigilance.

Can you cite examples where a relaxed attitude LED to disasters? I'd be interested in this.

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 65):
I applaud flight crews all over the world that do their job..even when it inconveniences a passenger or two or has a potential black eye to the PR department of the airline regardless of country or creed.

So you're cool with FAs and Captains tossing anyone they don't like because YOU want them comfortable so that YOU'RE comfortable. That's a pretty ridiculous exercise of privilege, frankly.
 
uta999
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:33 am

On the morning of 11th September 2001, four US domestic aircraft were taken over by people of a particular faith and flown into buildings. One into the ground. Nearly 3,000 died that day.

If you fly everyday as part of your job, that memory is never far from the surface. If people over-react to small situations, or have little experience of people of other faiths, so be it.

It is a small price to pay for history not repeating itself. That is not racist, but common sense.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:41 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 62):
Can you prove that everyone WN has removed from a flight is not a terrorist?

How many of them have been chraged with terrorist offences or sent to Gitmo? Swing and a miss, champ!
 
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seahawk
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:58 am

Quoting uta999 (Reply 69):
On the morning of 11th September 2001, four US domestic aircraft were taken over by people of a particular faith and flown into buildings. One into the ground. Nearly 3,000 died that day.

If you fly everyday as part of your job, that memory is never far from the surface. If people over-react to small situations, or have little experience of people of other faiths, so be it.

It is a small price to pay for history not repeating itself. That is not racist, but common sense.

It is Racist down to the fact that you believe any terrorist would be stupid enough to speak Arabian before committing his deed. In fact their are plenty white people who converted to Islam and they could speak in any Western language you like.

Apart from that, if 9/11 is still so close to you, as a frequent flyer, how about pilots with little experience, over worked pilots, pilots with psychological problems, bad weather, faulty aircraft systems, ....

In fact the Israeli experience tells us that not the language spoken or the skin colour is are indicators for a terrorist, it is background. (a young male travelling on a one way ticket bought with cash, that should cause an alarm)

[Edited 2016-04-18 04:00:28]
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:43 am

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 65):
The thread was started BECAUSE of this woman's faith.

This thread was started because the woman was removed from an airplane. She was deemed afterwords to not have been a threat. Faith and race (dark skinned) come into this because that is thought to be the reason she was removed for.

If she was removed because of switching seats with another person, in a no assigned seating situation, my question would be, why have not been two persons removed, the other persons she was switching seats with. If it would have been an emergency exit situation, I would be sure we would have got that explanation by the airline.
 
bennett123
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:03 pm

Two points from the OP;

1. No Police action and she was booked on a later flight.

2. They basicly will not comment to 'protect the customer's privacy'.

Since the customer apparently not concerned about her privacy, it all sounds a bit screwy.
 
tonystan
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:08 pm

Quoting uta999 (Reply 69):

Oh my goodness what a ridiculous post.

No, the events of 9/11 are not justification for ALL Muslims being treated unfairly and basically bullied on flights (because this is how I see this whole southwest incident). US citizens have never really been known for their open mindedness and tolerance (race, sexuality, xenophobia all have dire records through US history) and 9/11 has allowed them become even more ignorant to life outside their borders and indeed to anyone within their borders who doesn't conform the the ideal of a church going nuclear family!

I'm expected to be tolerant and respectful to all people at work and I am, why US carriers seem to think they can be otherwise is beyond me.
 
guyanam
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:50 pm

Quoting Prinair (Reply 9):

It does if there is clear bias based on the person's race, religion, or gender.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:56 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 53):
There would be no news coverage because it happens all the time and they are just white men, not worthy of news stories.

Right. Nice little conspiracy theory you have there. We don´t live in the time of 5 newspapers and 3 TV stations anymore, Web 2.0 ist already getting old.
There are still 80 Million+ hits for "Obama a muslim" and at least on the first few google result pages the majority of sites claims he is.
If a white, tie wearing, englisch speaking fellow citizen got removed from an aircraft, we would hear about it and the "news" coverage wouldn´t even stop if the story turns out to be BS (See Obama a muslim again).

And Fox would probably interrupt its program ....

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 55):
We don't have all the facts, just a few bits of information that allow people who want to jump to conclusions to begin their leaps.

We have the FA telling the cops that there was no reason to remove him from the flight, don´t we... ?

best regards
Thomas
 
ytz
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:37 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 45):
In my opinion, if American carriers want to pretend that they are "World Class", they better start realizing that the world exists outside of the United States.

This is just one more reason among many to minimize travel on American carriers. As a non-white person, I fear being held to a different standard. Simple as that. Now, I've grown up in Canada since I was 11 and don't have an accent. But what happens to my Indian parents, who although they speak perfect English, will occasionally resort to their native language. I always wonder if such an FA will say, "I feel uncomfortable with them."

Muslim passengers should vote with their dollars. Seems to me that Southwest isn't interested in their money.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 76):

Sorry kid but you miss the point. People like you would let someone carry out a terrorist attack in order to charge them. Somehow in your world you believe that is better than taking a risk of inconveniencing someone. Fortunately there are people with common sense who put security first and political correctness second.

Actually, I would rather die in an explosion than live in a racist state where not being a white, male, heterosexual Christian makes you a second-class citizen.

On 9/11, 20 minutes after the news came, I remember saying to my medical school classmate and good friend: "I am so sorry because I think life is going to get very difficult for you." She is a Muslim.

Three days later, her mother, a diminuitive ophthalmologist who wears a hijab, was beat up in a Walmart.

I won't live in a world where Muslims aren't allowed to live their lives, where they will be deboarded from planes at the whim of flight attendants or other passengers. WN and its employee need to be held accountable for their title VII violation and I very much hope that they are. I hope it is dearly expensive for them.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 81):
I won't live in a world where Muslims aren't allowed to live their lives, where they will be deboarded from planes at the whim of flight attendants or other passengers.

Well said.
+1
 
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longhauler
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 81):
I won't live in a world where Muslims aren't allowed to live their lives, where they will be deboarded from planes at the whim of flight attendants or other passengers. WN and its employee need to be held accountable for their title VII violation and I very much hope that they are. I hope it is dearly expensive for them.

You say Muslims, but I am sure you mean all races, all religions, all sexual orientations, etc.

One of the things I enjoy about this forum, is the world wide nature of it. Not just other cultures and opinions, but sometimes what could be considered the same culture as myself of our closest southern neighbour. When I read the opinions of the average American on here, sometimes it surprises me as as if it were from 20,000 kms away!

When I remember that my first race sensitivity class at Canadian Airlines was more than 20 years ago, sometimes I am surprised that it is not simply policy at every airline today ... big and small.

Today, in Canada not only is it illegal to discriminate with regard to race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. ... but at Air Canada you will be fired for being racist. Not "may be" fired, nor "should be" fired, you WILL BE fired. The actions of those mentioned at Southwest, if accounts are correct, would result in dismissal where I fly.
 
denverdanny
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:18 pm

Quoting Brewfangrb (Reply 68):
Can you cite examples where a relaxed attitude LED to disasters? I'd be interested in this.

Can you cite examples where a relaxed attitude LED to disasters? I'd be interested in this.
Man insists his bag be inter-lined. (Air India 182)

Baggage not matched to passengers, or screened. (Pan Am 103)

Inadequate screening of passengers. Weapons allowed on plane. (9/11)
 
mham001
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:18 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 74):
US citizens have never really been known for their open mindedness and tolerance (race, sexuality, xenophobia all have dire records through US history)

Good for us all that that has never happened in Europe, huh?

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 78):
Right. Nice little conspiracy theory you have there. We don´t live in the time of 5 newspapers and 3 TV stations anymore, Web 2.0 ist already getting old.

Just the way it is. Sure, it would generally be for poor behavior, but nobody ever knows because somebody would have to alert the reporters. Who notified reporters of this instance? Probably the woman, looking for attention and sympathy.

And for the record, men are routinely discriminated against by being forced to move if seated next to an unaccompanied minor. How often will you hear of that "anguish"?
 
guyanam
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:24 pm

Quoting sebring (Reply 59):

I just cannot imagine some one who fits the "Muslim" stereotype will draw attention to themselves by disruptive behavior.

Quoting Brewfangrb (Reply 68):

If a passenger is tossed off because he "made the crew feel uncomfortable", and then was re-accommodated in the same airline with a different crew, the first crew should be fined for costing the airline money. That is unless they can prove that there was disruptive behavior.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 83):

The USA is more laissez faire than is Canada. It isn't more racist. Its just less regulated in its response to racism, which means that Americans are more accustomed to open discussion on this topic. The fact that the ex PM tried an anti Muslim tactic shows that there is a market for that thinking in Canada.

In addition Americans are more litigious. That WN response is purely one to protect itself in case it is involved in a class action law suit by Muslim passengers.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 70):

Usually it is "Muslim passengers forced off the plane, and allowed on a later flight". I can swear that these incidents seem most likely to happen on either WN, or B6.
 
avi8
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:48 pm

Everyone gets offended by everything these days. If it was a Catholic woman being removed for whatever the reason was this would not have been mentioned in the media. However, since it was a Muslim woman being removed, everyone directly assumes the reasons were racist and discriminatory.
 
mham001
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:51 pm

In the previous case, the local newspaper reported today,

"Southwest Airlines said in a statement Sunday that the passenger, Khairuldeen Makhzoomi, was taken off the April 9 flight from Los Angeles to Oakland, California, for questioning and the plane took off while that was happening. But the airline said it has not received a direct complaint from Makhzoomi, and he has not responded to several attempts to reach him."

But he is talking to the reporters instead. This is where the impression comes that many are more interested in their 15 minutes. He was removed for questioning after making a phone call on the plane, in Arabic, discussing ISIS and ending the call with "inshallah". I can see people feeling "uncomfortable" with that. http://www.mercurynews.com/californi...ays-southwest-airlines-removed-him
 
COEWR787
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:56 pm

Looks like there was another removal incident on Southwest over the weekend:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/17/us/sou...uslim-passenger-removed/index.html

Maybe a little bit of admission of a problem and a little bit of retraining of staff maybe in order at this point? Or alternatively they could state some of the profiling criteria used, like "Speaking in Arabic" "Born in the Middle East Muslim" and a few others used so one can avoid embarrassing oneself. of course that would also cause a few legal problems too I suppose. Sigh...
 
mham001
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 89):

Notice the difference in reports from the previous post. He said to AP that he discussed Islamic State in the conversation. Notice in CNN, he says he is just asking for an apology, yet SouthWest says they don't get their calls returned.

What he is really looking for is his 15 minutes of fame.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 86):
The USA is more laissez faire than is Canada. It isn't more racist. Its just less regulated in its response to racism, which means that Americans are more accustomed to open discussion on this topic.

More laissez faire towards racists and racism (which is not good) ... NOT ... more laissez faire towards other races! (which is also not good).

There is a very big difference.

But bringing this back to the topic at hand. That laissez faire attitude toward other races does not work well with a multi national and multi cultural business like an airline. Or to put it another way ... look at other well respected world airlines ... do you think this incident would have occurred on British Airways, Qantas or Cathay Pacific? My opinion is that it would not, as most world savvy airlines have a well developed policy about harrassment and bullying. One of those facets watched would be race.
 
trex8
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:14 pm

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 84):
Inadequate screening of passengers. Weapons allowed on plane. (9/11)

Box cutters werent really considered prohibited weapons before 9/11
 
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OA412
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RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:20 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 56):
Not sure it's total BS, but there's a major outbreak of xenophobia in this country.

I'd suggest the xenophobia has been around time, but that it's becoming increasingly mainstream to be open, and proud, of one's xenophobia largely, as you suggest, because the media and talking heads continue(s) to fan the flames.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 81):
I won't live in a world where Muslims aren't allowed to live their lives, where they will be deboarded from planes at the whim of flight attendants or other passengers.

Precisely. It's not a world I want to live in either. We all have irrational fears, and I don't know that the fear some people have of Muslims is any different. It's absolutely irrational. But taking that irrational fear and allowing it to manifest itself into a situation where Muslims are essentially ostracized is something we need to actively avoid.
 
denverdanny
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:16 pm

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 81):
I won't live in a world where Muslims aren't allowed to live their lives, where they will be deboarded from planes at the whim of flight attendants or other passengers. WN and its employee need to be held accountable for their title VII violation and I very much hope that they are. I hope it is dearly expensive for them.

I don't think you give enough credit to flight attendants and passengers. Most people are very sensitive to how others are being treated. Not on "whims" that people have been removed from flights. A main part of the flight attendant's job is safety and comfort of the passengers. If they feel there's a problem, or something that may interfere with the flight's operation/safety, that's their job to deal with it/bring it to attention. Too often around here are the flight attendants slammed for something they did, when it was related to performing their job. I'm not going to believe that the FA here had a person removed for bigoted reasons. Too often I've seen people try to make something a race or discrimination issue when it's not.
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:44 pm

Quoting csavel (Reply 10):
If it was the 'seat-switching' and not out and out bigotry then why was the man *who had agreed to switch seats* not hauled off the plane? I mean seriously , you can't switch a seat without another willing partner.

Time of day may have something to do with it. For instance, I once had a FA completely freak out on me when I changed from 3F to 1B on a LAX-IAD flight. A man (3E) wanted to sit with his wife (who was the original 1B).

In fact this was just after the door closed. I'm sure if it had been later in the morning (when the crew was awake) there would have been no problem.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20189
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:05 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 76):
Sorry kid but you miss the point.

No, you asked for proof that any Muslims removed from flights were not terrorists. Aside from the obvious of proving a negative being impossible, the fact that none of the victims has been charged with any terrorist offences is about as good a proof as anyone could get.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 76):
People like you would let someone carry out a terrorist attack in order to charge them.

Whereas you want them locked up and charged for nothing? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2274
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:21 pm

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 94):
I don't think you give enough credit to flight attendants and passengers. Most people are very sensitive to how others are being treated. Not on "whims" that people have been removed from flights. A main part of the flight attendant's job is safety and comfort of the passengers. If they feel there's a problem, or something that may interfere with the flight's operation/safety, that's their job to deal with it/bring it to attention. Too often around here are the flight attendants slammed for something they did, when it was related to performing their job. I'm not going to believe that the FA here had a person removed for bigoted reasons. Too often I've seen people try to make something a race or discrimination issue when it's not.

This. Does anyone really think an FA wants to sit around and do a bunch of denied boarding (or whatever it's called) paperwork and then get hassled by their boss?

The US media has to make everything about race, even/especially when it has nothing to do with race. It gets pageclicks, retweets, etc. and that's all they care about. $

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 23):

how many examples are needed to show a trend.

Southwest carries about 400,000pax per day (12mil per month). *2* is not statistically significant at that scale.
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22270
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 97):

This. Does anyone really think an FA wants to sit around and do a bunch of denied boarding (or whatever it's called) paperwork and then get hassled by their boss?

A *FEW* flight attendants seem to get off on the power trips.

And those are the ones that cause these sorts of problems.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10879
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:13 pm

If he also discussed Islamic State, (reply 89).

Then this plus speaking in Arabic was asking for trouble.
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:21 pm

Maybe she misbehaved, in that case Southwest should not protect her privacy, it will cost them a lot in terms of image.

Because meanwhile I will tend to defend the minority individual rather that the Texan capitalist behemoth.

If I were her and was were at no fault I would sue and ask for millions. If I were at fault I would just stay mum so I am wondering what she is up to.

This is all too complicated to sort out with information missing.
 
Prinair
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 7:28 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:33 pm

Quoting Brewfangrb (Reply 68):
Nonsense

How? The statement stands. Prove otherwise. All these posts yet none of these persons knows what really happened.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3997
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Muslim Woman Removed From WN Flight At MDW

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:10 am

Quoting Prinair (Reply 104):
All these posts yet none of these persons knows what really happened.


Obviously, you don't.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 81):
Actually, I would rather die in an explosion than live in a racist state where not being a white, male, heterosexual Christian makes you a second-class citizen.

  

Quoting avi8 (Reply 87):
Everyone gets offended by everything these days. If it was a Catholic woman being removed for whatever the reason was this would not have been mentioned in the media.

If a Catholic woman were removed from a plane because she was wearing a nun's outfit and spoke a little Latin, it certainly would be mentioned in the media. And you can bet your booty there would be nationwide protests, complaints, wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 81):
I won't live in a world where Muslims aren't allowed to live their lives, where they will be deboarded from planes at the whim of flight attendants or other passengers. WN and its employee need to be held accountable for their title VII violation and I very much hope that they are. I hope it is dearly expensive for them.

        
Perhaps we forget that by isolating Muslims - or any otgher group - and making them feel that they are not a part of society, we are creating a fertile breeding ground for terrorist recruiters. It is just those feelings - isolation and no connection to the society around them - that makes recruits fall for the dogma of terrorist groups.

The last thing we should be doing is contributing to their schemes.

[Edited 2016-04-18 19:00:52]

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