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descl
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Air France Changes To SCL?

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:50 pm

Hi everyone.

I was checking flights on AF's website, and it looks like from September their flight from CDG to SCL is a daily 777-300 (up from 4/W 777-300 + 3/W 777-200). But, more interesting, they seem to have changed the schedule on the return leg.

They go from:

AF406 CDG 2330 – 1000 +1 SCL
AF401 SCL 1630 – 1115 +1 CDG

To:

AF406 CDG 2330 – 1000 +1 SCL
AF401 SCL 1335 – 0820 +1 CDG

Does anyone know if this a confirmed change and what could be the reason behind this?
I think it´s good that you get earlier in Europe, but connections to East Asia would not good anymore, and as far as I know, an important portion of their passengers go to Asia.
 
jfk777
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:12 am

Quoting descl (Thread starter):
hey go from:

AF406 CDG 2330 – 1000 +1 SCL
AF401 SCL 1630 – 1115 +1 CDG

To:

AF406 CDG 2330 – 1000 +1 SCL
AF401 SCL 1335 – 0820 +1 CDG

Does anyone know if this a confirmed change and what could be the reason behind this?
I think it´s good that you get earlier in Europe, but connections to East Asia would not good anymore, and as far as I know, an important portion of their passengers go to Asia

Why spend over 6 hours on the ground and arrive in Paris for lunch when you can arrive for breakfast. Three and a half hours should be enough to turn the plane back to CDG.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:28 am

It seems they just adjust the timing to meet a different hub arrival bank.

AF has very good tools to manage flow across network, so they obviously see valid reason to adjust times to maximize revenues.

For reference some other markets South American like GIG, GRU, CCS also timed with similar 8am arrivals in CDG.
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descl
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Posts: 124
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:28 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
Why spend over 6 hours on the ground and arrive in Paris for lunch when you can arrive for breakfast. Three and a half hours should be enough to turn the plane back to CDG.

So why did they decide to spend over 6 hours on the ground in the first place? They have had this schedule for years (same in EZE, GIG and GRU), so what make them change it now?
I think it's not just a "schedule change", but a strategic decision and I would like to understand it.
 
descl
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Posts: 124
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:39 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 2):

It seems they just adjust the timing to meet a different hub arrival bank.

AF has very good tools to manage flow across network, so they obviously see valid reason to adjust times to maximize revenues.

For reference some other markets South American like GIG, GRU, CCS also timed with similar 8am arrivals in CDG.

But don´t you think it´s strange they "give up" the Chile - East Asia market, which has been an important source of revenue for them.

In the case of GRU and GIG they have flights arriving in Paris at 08.00 and 11.00, so these airports have access to almost the entire AF network.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:50 am

Quoting descl (Reply 4):
But don´t you think it´s strange they "give up" the Chile - East Asia market, which has been an important source of revenue for them.

No I dont think its strange. They obviously have tools and access to information regarding traffic and revenue flow across network.
Maybe revenue for SCL-Asia is less than selling capacity as separate segments to other pax?

Quoting descl (Reply 4):
In the case of GRU and GIG they have flights arriving in Paris at 08.00 and 11.00, so these airports have access to almost the entire AF network.

GIG is only single flight. AF443 arriving 0800 for the Northern Winter season.
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qf2220
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:11 am

Theyre arriving earlier into CDG no, so those pax travelling to East Asia are not cut out of the market are they? Their flights just move forward at the SCL end. And with both departure times, theres not a lot you would do in the half day anyway, so it may not impact them much. At the same time it opens up connections elsewhere in Europe, boosting the routes appeal. Or am I missing something.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:19 am

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 6):
At the same time it opens up connections elsewhere in Europe, boosting the routes appeal. Or am I missing something.

This. An 0800 CDG arrival meets all of the departures (mostly intra-Europe) that are optimized for connections from North America, virtually all of which arrive early morning.
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qf2220
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:28 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):

How is that a problem? Are those connections now available to SCL origin pax, that were previously not?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 8):
Are those connections now available to SCL origin pax, that were previously not?

I don't think it opens many connections; most of the intra-Europe routes have additional frequencies later in the day. But, I suspect that the schedule change shortens many of those connections. The TATL (or perhaps I should say trans-North Atlantic) "wave" at CDG, like at most western European hubs, arrives early in the morning and departs late morning.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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qf2220
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:49 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):

Ok, sorry, I was confused by your earlier post where you said the 0800 meets all of the intra-Europe departures.
 
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N717TW
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:00 am

East Asia, like the middle east or Southern Asia, like India?

If the former, then there is pretty good service to CAI, AMM, TLV, BEY, IST, etc. with an 8 am arrival into CDG.

Don't forget there is also a KLM flight through AMS too.
 
Q
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:07 am

Maybe Air France doesn't want to add charge parking fees for many over hours at SCL. They cut hours ground off short time out of SCL. Or SCL airport wants AF get out of airport parking insufficient remote area. I guess.


Q
 
goldorak
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
GIG is only single flight. AF443 arriving 0800 for the Northern Winter season.

GIG is twice daily most of the days.

Quoting descl (Reply 3):
So why did they decide to spend over 6 hours on the ground in the first place? They have had this schedule for years (same in EZE, GIG and GRU), so what make them change it now?
I think it's not just a "schedule change", but a strategic decision and I would like to understand it.

Simply because they have a better use for this aircraft with a departure in the very busy hub bank departing CDG at 10:30 am
 
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:28 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 13):
GIG is twice daily most of the days.

No sir. Look in GDS. Only single GIG flight.

I pick a random week - Nov 7th - only show

AF443 GIG CDG 1800-0800+1 77W Daily

Same thing for another random week - Jan 16th.
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descl
Topic Author
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:39 am

RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:58 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
GIG is only single flight. AF443 arriving 0800 for the Northern Winter season.

Ok sorry, I thought GIG was 12 weekly.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 6):




Theyre arriving earlier into CDG no, so those pax travelling to East Asia are not cut out of the market are they? Their flights just move forward at the SCL end. And with both departure times, theres not a lot you would do in the half day anyway, so it may not impact them much. At the same time it opens up connections elsewhere in Europe, boosting the routes appeal. Or am I missing something.

Yes, you are right, those passengers are not cut out of the market, but transit times get 3 hours longer, which is no much longer than others options available (transiting in US, for example). The thing is that with the "old schedule" AF was the quickest way to get to airports like PEK and SHA, so now they would be losing that competitive advantage, which means, I suppose, selling tickets at lower prices.
 
bsbisland
Posts: 351
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Quoting descl (Reply 15):

Ok sorry, I thought GIG was 12 weekly.

As of now it is and for the next months it will be.
 
winGl3t
Posts: 322
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:42 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 14):
No sir. Look in GDS. Only single GIG flight.

I pick a random week - Nov 7th - only show

AF443 GIG CDG 1800-0800+1 77W Daily

Same thing for another random week - Jan 16th.

For Winter Season AF will have only 1 daily flight GIG-CDG-GIG operated by 77W, indeed.


Regarding SCL as a costumer I believe the new schedule is far more productive:
it is better to lose one afternoon in SCL and arrive during morning hours in CDG (or mid morning on other EU destinations) than to lose half day in SCL and other half day in Europe.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:40 pm

Would it not be better to title "Air France changes gauge at SCL" The way it's written I sounds like they switched airports.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Air France Changes To SCL?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:09 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 13):
Simply because they have a better use for this aircraft with a departure in the very busy hub bank departing CDG at 10:30 am

This was my first thought. We always hear about AF's problematic finances. Increasing aircraft utilization is one step toward a solution. If they can squeeze a few extra segments out of the fleet by reducing ground time at outstations, they have to consider it. As for those pax in transit to Asia, some of them may actually appreciate the longer layover in Paris.

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