WaywardMemphian
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:31 am

I instantaneously said, "What?":

It is too expensive to go to the U.S. so they go to Spain instead," said Kjos. "More competition means more volumes (of passengers) ... Tourism is where we see the highest growth."

The airline is eyeing direct transatlantic routes from U.S. cities that do not currently have them, such as Memphis and New Orleans, Kjos said.

"And there are several cities around Chicago that are possibilities too," he said, without naming any.]
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/18/reute...for-new-transatlantic-flights.html

Surely, there's got to be a cargo element to that possibility.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:35 am

There could be demand for less then daily service from LGW to MEM, STL, MCI, MSY, BNA etc etc. I could see it, kind of like Allegiant style to Europe. Fly routes that could never support year round daily service, not the worst idea.
 
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TWA772LR
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:45 am

MSY could be a winner for them. I wonder if they can rights from Paris to MSY too. MEM would be hard. They did have AMS service but that was with NW and KL hubs on either end.
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WaywardMemphian
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:50 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):
There could be demand for less then daily service from LGW to MEM, STL, MCI, MSY, BNA etc etc. I could see it, kind of like Allegiant style to Europe. Fly routes that could never support year round daily service, not the worst idea.

Oh, I think it could succeed on a seasonal basis. All I can think of that Memphis will be a major terminus for Viking Cruises as they enter the market and they'll be promoting those heavily in Europe. Fly into NO and out of Memphis and vice versa.

Quite honestly, I could see December to Valentines as viable times for reasons of Chrisman Markets and romantic European getaways for the 14th oc Feb in Paris. A flight to.Paris will.set you back over a 1,000 to 1,700 easy from MEM. If Norweigian came in and you could fly nonstop from 600 to 800, that would quite something.

Memphis would pull folks from Nashville, Birmingham, Jackson and Little Rock easy. Add up those MSAs and a once or twice weekly, seasonal to a couple of major European markets. The airports would love the long term parking fees.

[Edited 2016-04-18 20:56:22]
 
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deltadawg
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:08 am

I can't see year round service but maybe and a big maybe seasonal summer service to LHR, LGW or CDG. Makes me think of DL's PIT-CDG seasonal service.

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 3):
Memphis would pull folks from Nashville, Birmingham, Jackson and Little Rock easy.

Perhaps Jackson and Little Rock but I would think most in Birmingham would travel to ATL for European destinations. Nashville would be a 50/50 chance of pulling folks in.
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DeltaRules
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:09 am

It's been/being strongly suggested that CMH has London service in their near future. Everyone's eyes automatically went to AA/BA and LHR.

I wonder if it would be Norwegian to LGW.
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WaywardMemphian
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:24 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 4):
Perhaps Jackson and Little Rock but I would think most in Birmingham would travel to ATL for European destinations. Nashville would be a 50/50 chance of pulling folks in.



Interstate 22 will nearly empty right at MEM, that puts most of BHAM and Hoover and Tuscaloosa right at 3 hrs. drive time.compared to a little over 2 hrs. to Hartsfield if traffic is good. If one could save 400 bucks per passenger for a R/T compared to the prices that Delta fleeces Atlanta folk for, that drive is appealing.

[Edited 2016-04-18 21:27:23]

If I booked a nonstop to London from Atlanta in late May and returned in two weeks, I'm looking at 1,500 per seat for the R/T. Paris and Rome are the same if not more. Sure you can fly via Istanbul for around a 1,000 bucks. For the arguement's sake, If Norweigian offered those routes for out of MEM for 800 R/T after your baggage fees, I summit some may drive to Memphis from ATL or hop on cheap Frontier flight to MEM for the cheaper fare. When you look at it for a vacation for four, thay's a lot of money, lI me a weeks worth of rooms across the pond.


[Edited 2016-04-18 21:40:01]
 
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LAX772LR
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:07 am

If DU is mentioning MSY and MEM specifically, I'm convinced that it has to be eyeing a tie-in with Viking.

But then again, some of those cruise types are expensive, and cater to a well-heeled crowd that might not be so keen on the DY/DU model.

Who knows....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
NolaMD88fan
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:08 am

This is exactly the type of service that would work well at MSY. I could see 3-4x weekly flights that time up well with the ocean and river cruises for inbound traffic. The flight could easily draw in traffic 2 hours drive away like MOB and LFT with the cheaper fares to Europe. That's a nice 4 million person catchment to access. Would love to see DY at MSY in the next couple of years.
 
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LAX772LR
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:19 am

Quoting NolaMD88fan (Reply 8):
The flight could easily draw in traffic 2 hours drive away like MOB and LFT with the cheaper fares to Europe.

I doubt DU would be after much stateside traffic. Probably just bringing in Euros for the cruises/sights.

Without offering any real cnnxs, I'm thinking most of the US origin traffic will just continue to cnnx at stateside hubs.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
TWA902fly
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:47 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):
MSY could be a winner for them. I wonder if they can rights from Paris to MSY too. MEM would be hard. They did have AMS service but that was with NW and KL hubs on either end.

I would imagine BNA is a bigger tourist draw than MEM, and appears to be doing better economically as well.

I also think that all the candidates that come up over and over in threads about which next US city BA will serve next (or LH) are probably something Norwegian could look at. Some other ones as well, here's my list, based on my opinion. Would love to hear other's thoughts.

SLC (although DL is starting LHR any day now and also has CDG and AMS service)
BNA (no European service at all
PIT (only seasonal DL to CDG, but decent sized market)
SMF (see above, but possibly too close to OAK, which is already served)
PDX (tourism, but competition with Condor, FI, DL, although lacking London service so LGW may work)
BUF (If they don't start YYZ, could do the same that Allegiant does to siphon cross-border traffic)
IND (same as PIT but no service to Europe)
CLE (same as IND)
CMH (same as IND)
CVG (same as PIT)
DEN (huge tourist market, although competition from FI/LH/BA does exist)
MKE (only if they don't get into ORD first)
ANC (summer tourism, although competition from FI and Condor)
FAI (same as ANC)

Thoughts?

'902
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Gazdon121
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:21 am

give me BNA anyday would save me connecting
 
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LAX772LR
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:09 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 10):
CVG (same as PIT)

CVG's CDG service is not seasonal
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
WaywardMemphian
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:33 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 10):
I would imagine BNA is a bigger tourist draw than MEM, and appears to be doing better economically as well.

Don't underestimate the connection to this with Norweigian rooted Viking's major expansion plans on the river. I'll try not to overestimate it.

Would Europeans be more interested in Graceland and Elvis or The Grand Ol' Opry? Sun Studios or Stax? National Civil Rights Museum? World Class Zoo with Pandas? The Mississippi or the Cumberland? The blues sites in the Mississippi River Delta or Loretta Lynn's Dude Ranch

http://www.fodors.com/news/photos/americas-10-best-zoos#!2-memphis-zoo

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...ets-10best-readers-choice/2962393/

[Edited 2016-04-19 05:06:27]
 
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lesfalls
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:40 pm

I doubt DY will start flights to secondary U.S cities until they get their 737s Max's. Until then DY will probably continue to invest in their U.S bases (JFK and FLL) and the destinations they already serve. ORD though is probably the next most likely city that they will be starting.
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TVNWZ
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:49 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Thread starter):

"And there are several cities around Chicago that are possibilities too," he said, without naming any.]

MKE fits that bill nicely. And a quick drive from the affluent north and northwest suburbs without the congestion of ORD.
 
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Polot
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:50 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 13):

Europeans are not going to fly thousands of miles to MEM because of a zoo and a National Civil Rights Museum.

If DY flies to MEM is would be mostly because of Viking.
 
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enilria
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:01 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Thread starter):
The airline is eyeing direct transatlantic routes from U.S. cities that do not currently have them, such as Memphis and New Orleans, Kjos said.
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):

MSY could be a winner for them.

MSY could be stimulated at the right price.

MEM can't work. It would need connections on one of the ends. No connections on either end is death. I don't think they could fill it at economic fares even twice per week.

I assume they are talking about RFD. I think MKE works better. They should also consider the monopolized OA hubs before going into markets this far down the ladder (e.g. MEM). Even something like CVG or PIT where they might be able to push out DL would be an interesting move. MEM is just desperation to avoid competition.
 
crazytoaster
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:16 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
I assume they are talking about RFD. I think MKE works better. They should also consider the monopolized OA hubs before going into markets this far down the ladder (e.g. MEM). Even something like CVG or PIT where they might be able to push out DL would be an interesting move. MEM is just desperation to avoid competition.

I think MKE could work as a secondary airport for Chicago area like others have said. RFD and dare I say GYY or SBN are just too small for DU/DY to enter.

"several cities around Chicago" I think just refers to the Midwest. So MCI, STL, IND, CMH could be in the running which don't have any EU service and are large to support 2/3x weekly to a destination. Now if they were to add any of these, I really hope they don't market it as Chicago...
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
masseybrown
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:41 pm

This release of Norwegian remionds me of the early tub-thumping for Virgin America, which released a list of dozens of US cities they were "considering" for new service. The intent was to generate interest and support for the airline, not to actually fly the routes.

Promise them anything, but fly only to the usual places is the way it generally works out.
 
TWA902fly
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:24 pm

I think there could be some real potential here. Just because Norwegian would be a market leader in some of these markets does not mean the markets aren't there.

Think about Canada-Europe flights by Air Transat, WestJet, etc. from places like Winnipeg, Halifax, etc, both smaller than any cities mentioned in this thread so far.

Also think about the inroads airlines like Condor, Icelandair, XL Airways France, Air Berlin, Thomas Cook, WOW Air, Edelweiss, etc. have made into the Europe-US market (Although I'd say Air Berlin is a hybrid), but again with examples such as ANC, FAI, TPA, PDX, SJU, etc...

Given their quick expansion, including the flights from BWI/JFK to FDF/PTP, my take on this is they see a large market which has only recently started to be tapped, and they want to be at the forefront of it.

'902
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slcdeltarumd11
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:37 pm

I think the unserved markets make more sense and to focus less on business and more on leisure traffic.

SLC has 4x a day now at times to Europe, the city is very well served to Europe at this point. Seems like a real tough one to even try.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 10):
SLC (although DL is starting LHR any day now and also has CDG and AMS service)

BA has the market really well covered. UA with all that connection traffic couldnt pull off LHR even seasonal. I cant see there being room for Norweigan BA has the market well covered already.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 10):
DEN (huge tourist market, although competition from FI/LH/BA does exist)

The underserved markets make sense to me. Less then daily allegiant style service might work, plus the unserved cities will throw lots of $$$$ out for the service. I cant see places like DEN or SLC offering anything worthwhile.
 
BOSMEMFlyer
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:45 pm

Blergh. I want this to be true, but I don't see it happening unless there is some partnership with Viking as mentioned before...or unless JetBlue is secretly working to open a mid-continent focus city in MEM to help feed such a flight!   
 
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enilria
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:50 pm

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 18):
"several cities around Chicago" I think just refers to the Midwest.

I doubt it. My experience is that airline planners think of metro areas pretty individually. I don't think CMH would be in their head as being "around Chicago".
 
WaywardMemphian
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
MEM can't work. It would need connections on one of the ends. No connections on either end is death. I don't think they could fill it at economic fares even twice per week.

Last I looked they had healthy connection opportunities via Copenhagen, Oslo, and London Gatwick. Each one can get you to most major cities in Europe.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 20):
Think about Canada-Europe flights by Air Transat, WestJet, etc. from places like Winnipeg, Halifax, etc, both smaller than any cities mentioned in this thread so far.

Let's take MEM and it's possible areas to pull from Transatlantic

The Memphis MSA is 1,350,000

Little Rock AR is 725,000

Birmingham AL is 1,140,000

Jackson, MS is 580,000

Nashville, TN is 1,800,000

Jonesboro, AR is 125,000

Jackson, TN is 115,000

Huntsville AL is 435,000

Tupelo MS is 135,000

All those around a 31/2 hr or less drive from Memphis and totals 6,500,000

Memphis will have a revamped single large concourse with plenty of room. It is well positioned between these areas and could even draw from burgeoning Northwest Arkansas. It's as close to Memphis as Dallas is. Nashville seems like the diamond ring but like IKEA noticed Memphis is again better spaced between big markets. Nashville has Charlotte eating at it's eastern flank, Cincy to the North, and Atlanta to the South. All hub cities with two being Fortress Hubs. Memphis is over a 6 hr drive from other hubs.

Like I posted earlier, a nonstop to Europe on Delta from Atlanta is going to set back the casual tourist 1,500 or more. Even with connecting flights from all the cities I listed is around the same. Say a one to two week vacation this June across the pond is chosen, (for comparison) a Oakland to Gatwick nonsrop flight would run around 800 to 900 bucks. You figure MEM would be 800ish. That's nearly two for one when compared to Atlanta prices. That might stimulate a previously unknown market. Would Delta price match from Atlanta when Norweigian is only running 1 or 2 flights? I doubt it. Some start up like GLO could grow into a regional feeder for these flights from MSY and/or MEM.

This is all just for the sake of the debate, guys. Like I said, it kinda shocked me to see him drop Memphis like that and I think this is really tired to that burgeoning River Cruise Market for Europeans and if he can fill the rest with US tourists, the merrier it is.

Viking plans six vessels at 300 passengers. A typical river cruise is around 6 or 8 days on the Lower Miss. Viking has said they want to dock two ships at a time in Memphis. Most cruises are one way, so Memphis would be a getting off and starting point for cruises between the upper and lower Mississippi. Viking plans on marketing these to European travelers. So let's say half of those boarding are from Europe and half getting off are as well. That's 150 potential passengers per flight on the Euro side. Let's say they use 788 equipment at 291 seats, that leaves 141 seats to sell to Americans for one flight a week. Not a something totally impossible.

[Edited 2016-04-19 09:18:18]
 
Lexy
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:15 pm

I seriously doubt you'll pull from BNA. That's just wishful thinking.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
WaywardMemphian
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Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:30 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 25):
I seriously doubt you'll pull from BNA. That's just wishful thinking.

Is it? It's three hour drive. BNA would have no similar nonstop for offer on it's own for the sake of this arguement, it jusr has connecting flights and the various layovers of differing lengths. Ashort drive to Memphis could save thousands if it's a family of 4 for the easy and simplicity of a nonstop in a much less crowded airport.

I Ike I said if the flights are half European, we are talking the equivalent of a 738 to fill the rest of the seats once, maybe twice a week on a likey seasonal basis. My question is wod Memphis be a stopping g point for a Cancun or other Latin/Carribean flight?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:36 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 26):
Is it? It's three hour drive. BNA would have no similar nonstop for offer on it's own for the sake of this arguement, it jusr has connecting flights and the various layovers of differing lengths.

If they layover is 2 hours or less, then you have essentially killed the time argument (and actually, it's more than a three hour difference coming west given MEM's customs setup). So then you have only the money argument. $79 fares might bring a handful of people if they exist, but even DY cannot make money on those.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Lexy
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:38 pm

People didn't drive from BNA to MEM when it had a hub with a European flight. Why you would honestly think MEM would get a flight like this just because is hilarious. You tell me, which city would you want if you had to choose?
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:15 pm

I know that Norweigan has talked about adding flights to Europe from BWI even though BA flies to LHR from BWI. I wonder what destenations they would fly to from BWI.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:16 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 28):

People didn't drive from BNA to MEM when it had a hub with a European flight. Why you would honestly think MEM would get a flight like this just because is hilarious.

Take a breath, this isn't some Memphis vs. Nashville thread. Both have their attributes and drawbacks.

I didn't start a thread speculating on this, I shared a link where the CEO of Norweigian speculated on Memphis and I wanted to parse why he would drop a city like Memphis out there. He could be doing what the other poster said and just throwing out names but Memphis is just too random for that
At least, to me.

Memphians drove to BNA for years to fly Southwest along with going to LIT. Nothing would prevent the same happening in reverse to MEM if the right product is offered.

You are comparing apples to oranges when using the KLM Amsterdam flight. That thing was ungodly expensive for locals and Norweigian flights would be the exact opposite. The prohibitive cost of that AMS flight was the exact thing the Norweigian CEO is talking about exploiting in these types of markets.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:25 pm

"Several cities around Chicago" That HAS to be referring to MKE. There are tons of people from the north suburbs of Chicago who would gladly make the drive to MKE to save a few bucks on a flight to Europe, especially if it meant not having to deal with ORD.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
orbital
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:02 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 30):
You are comparing apples to oranges when using the KLM Amsterdam flight. That thing was ungodly expensive for locals and Norweigian flights would be the exact opposite. The prohibitive cost of that AMS flight was the exact thing the Norweigian CEO is talking about exploiting in these types of markets.

You are exactly right. I paid several times for the AMS flight. It was awesome to have the ability to take a weekend jaunt over the atlantic even if it was a little pricey. If I had another option, especially a more economical one, I'd do it all the time. As it is, my appetite for a TATL trip are quite reduced, because I lose a cumulative day to the connection when both ways are factored in. In fact, I've been dreaming since that flight was discontinued that some carrier somewhere would take a bet on Memphis and start a new international route. All the infrastructure to support it (customs facility, etc.) are ready and waiting. I am not going to quit dreaming just yet, but this makes me more optimistic than nothing at all.

And besides, I admit I'd like to see some other large aircraft in addition to FDX heavies and occasional military transports while I'm working outside in the yard   The SW 737's just don't quite do it for me.
 
Lexy
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 30):

I'm not saying it is. I'm just stating it from a practical business sense.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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william
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:25 pm

Interesting that Viking is going to start river cruising in the states. Yes, the MEM/NOLA flights makes sense now. And as was brought out, for years, many in the MEM drove to an hour or two to catch SWA flights, why not in reverse? It would be gravy traffic for Norwegian.

This is an aviation site, but I wander how much US traffic VIking Cruises is going to attract too. Viking has a strong brand among the cruising set, even if its only river cruising. I plan to take one of their Euro river cruises soon.
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 33):
I'm not saying it is. I'm just stating it from a practical business sense
MEM is a one of the largest frieght airports in the world, it is a massive distribution center and home to FedEx , which is buying Euro logistics giant TNT, why wouldn't Norweigian want a practical business presence at MEM when they operate this

http://www.norwegiancargo.com/

They might do well on the cargo side of things as well.

[Edited 2016-04-19 12:02:05]
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:09 pm

Quoting william (Reply 34):
This is an aviation site, but I wander how much US traffic VIking Cruises is going to attract too. Viking has a strong brand among the cruising set, even if its only river cruising. I plan to take one of their Euro river cruises soon.

Viking has several Ocean ships on the way and here's the latest on Viking and the Mississippi
http://www.commercialappeal.com/busi...ess-impact-373277121.html?d=mobile
 
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Polot
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:59 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 35):
MEM is a one of the largest frieght airports in the world, it is a massive distribution center and home to FedEx
MEM is one of the largest freight airports in the world with a massive distribution center because it is home to FedEx. The problem with that though FedEx is going to put the cargo on their European bound/arriving freighters, not in the belly of DY's 787s. That is like saying UA could profitably fly ATL-MOB because ATL is the largest passenger airport in the world and home to DL.

[Edited 2016-04-19 13:01:43]
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 37):

It's not just FedEx. Memphis is basically one giant Distribution Center whether it comes from air, rail, truck or sea.


All things Nike in North America comes via Memphis. That shirt from Disney World, it came from Memphis. That sofa from Pottery Barn, yep, came from Memphis. That cell phone from the ATT store, via Memphis. All kinds of things come through Memphis and never graces a FedEx door.

Volvo
http://www.commercialappeal.com/busi...1167070152-323724781.html?d=mobile

[Edited 2016-04-19 13:24:29]

[Edited 2016-04-19 13:25:47]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 38):
All kinds of things come through Memphis and never graces a FedEx door.

And all kinds of international nonstop air freight comes in, and ALWAYS graces a FedEx door.

Thus, let's not pretend that there's some huge untapped potential for int'l freight at MEM that's somehow missing, as the airfield doesn't have a single int'l freight operator, FX handles all nonstop int'l freight, and anything not important enough to be express is happy to cnnx in the belly of domestic carriers operating into MEM through their stateside hubs.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 24):
Let's take MEM and it's possible areas to pull from Transatlantic

The Memphis MSA is 1,350,000

Little Rock AR is 725,000

Birmingham AL is 1,140,000

Jackson, MS is 580,000

Nashville, TN is 1,800,000

Jonesboro, AR is 125,000

Jackson, TN is 115,000

Huntsville AL is 435,000

Tupelo MS is 135,000

Those are also some of the poorest cities in the US (sans Huntsville and Nashville). I don't think you're going to get much traffic from Jonesboro, AR to London, let alone Paris, Stockholm, etc. I mean they've had on-and-off EAS service in a 9 seat Caravan. While there is bleed (and I would bet mostly to LIT + WN, and by your logic STL and the rival BNA )- MEM fares can be astronomical. And even Delta, with its last few remnants of a focus city in MEM serves more destinations from BNA. I assume if Delta believed they could better capture the regions traffic by shifting assets to MEM from BNA, they would do so. But they don't. And neither does any other airline. There's reasons for that.

Look, I don't think anyone has anything particularly bad to say about your beloved Memphis, but can't help but think your logic is skewed by somekind of cross-state rivalry.

The facts are;

1) Neither MEM nor BNA have nonstop service to Europe.
2) Per your own numbers, the population of the BNA metro is 25% higher
3) If we lump in everything you called a "surrounding area" of Memphis with the same radius centered in Nashville, it is even bigger - hell even Atlanta falls into that radius, and Birmingham is closer to Nashville than it is to Memphis.
4) Average household income in the BNA metro is about $7,000 higher than in MEM metro. That implies the economy of Nashville is not only larger but healthier.
5) Nashville generates over a third of the state's tourism revenue, Memphis is second on that list by a decent margin (according to the Tennessean newspaper)

Now let's say I am an airline like Norwegian and want to make the most revenue possible with my precious shiny 787s - if those were really the only two options left, I think the choice is logical.

Based on your screenname, I take it you love your city. But you have to see the reality of it. I, for example, live in one of the poorest counties in Colorado. And I am not blind to the fact that we're no Aspen.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:58 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 40):

The cost of living in Nashville is 9 to 10% higher than Memphis, so throw the higher median income out the window. One negates the other. It's like home prices in Calfornia, what 300,000 in LA buys compared to what it will by in a affluent neighborhood in Memphis is vast, like 1000s of square feet, vast. I figure the difference in tourism can be traced to a couple events a year. The SEC basketball tourney where Nashville gets a Big Blue boost and a few larger sized conventions and concert events like Bonnaroo. The increase in visitors from the cruises, if successful and Viking has a good track record at that, will cut into that gap pretty good. So would a rumored second weekend of the Beale St. Music Fest. Would you say that Europeans' interest in music would gravitate more to Memphis' roots in rock, blues, soul and R&B over the more American centric Country genre that Nashville is known for. I think I know.

This is all based on a premise that Kjos mentioned Memphis expressly because of the river cruises by Viking which should start in 2018. Otherwise, I'd agree it makes zero sense. But, there's a shared burden that makes it more viable Say there's a flight once a week and half the plane is O&D from Europe, mostly for the cruises. That leaves it up to the Mid South region to fill 140 seats once a week. Let's base it on 6 to 7 months, late April to late October. So, what's that , 30 flights tops at a total of 4,200 r/t fares. Let's throw out half of that 6 million for economic reasons because we're poor y'all. That leaves a potential market of 3 to 3 1/2 million in which to fill with those 4,200 r/t fares at pricing never before seen in the region. It's nearly uy one get one free type stuff. I figure the first year, with proper marketing via travel agencies and advertising via the various types of media, would sell well due to it being something new plus introductory pricing. Most would be good to go, because those that would buy those fares have their passports from going to Mexico or the Carribean via air or sea.


I'll let the condescension continue now.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11044
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RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:20 am

River cruising is nice but Viking would have to buy A LOT OF SEATS on Norwegian Air Shuttle or any other airline to bring folks into Memphis to make it work.

Keep in mind a few things about river cruises -
1. You probably have Americans sailing on this, too. So not all folks on board will be coming from overseas.

2. Boats are only so big. Even if everyone is coming on board from Europe, you're looking to fill half a plane. Maybe.

3. Cruises are lengthy. Departures don't go out every day. Viking is in the business of offering cruises 7-10-14 days, etc. So you have literally one day a week, maybe two when you have enough folks to fill a plane.

4. River cruise companies buy seats differently than the normal business model. Despite having to make connections for folks wanting to sail on the Mississippi in Atlanta or Washington DC or whatever, flying through there might be more lucrative for the cruise company than going with someone like Norwegian Air Shuttle. River cruise companies also like alliance carriers and airlines in case of passenger misconnections or changes to cruise itinerary. For example, Vantage Cruises is very loyal to Delta and Air France/KLM. Any hiccups along the way in travel bring about quick reconnections and rebookings to get passengers to the boat on time. Norwegian Air Shuttle would be very very limited in helping to reaccomodation.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1881
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:22 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 9):
I doubt DU would be after much stateside traffic. Probably just bringing in Euros for the cruises/sights.

Their JFK to Caribbean flights target American passengers, they are slowly gaining a name for themselves on this end of the pond as well.

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
MEM can't work. It would need connections on one of the ends. No connections on either end is death. I don't think they could fill it at economic fares even twice per week.

anything to Europe would offer connections on Norwegian.
 
WaywardMemphian
Topic Author
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:54 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 42):

The Viking boats will be right at 300 passengers. If half are European that's around 150 passengers.

A Norweigian 788 holds 291 folks with about 35 of that in their premium economy. That's how I came up with the 140 number for seats that would be incumbent on the O&D at MEM for full planes. The way they existing cruises go. It's NO to Memphis, Memphis to NO. Memphis to St. Louis, St. Louis to Memphis. There are limited numbers of other routes like a Memphis to Nashville, a hand full of round trips or prolonged NO to STL affairs.

Viking has told Memphis, when fully equipped with 6 ships, they'd likely dock two at a time in Memphis. I figure one would come from the North and one from the South. That would mean 600 passengers via Viking on those days at Memphis.

To look at some inteneries check out American Queen Steamboat Company.

[Edited 2016-04-19 19:57:47]
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12780
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 44):
If half are European that's around 150 passengers

And it's not as though the US3 and the big Euro carriers aren't going to catch a significant amount of that, through their stateside hubs.

Heck, a nonstop would be lucky to capture even half-- so now you're down to 75.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Lexy
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:13 am

Memphian, you vastly underestimate the tourism in Nashville partner. Your statement about it being a couple of events and conventions is laughable. Please, take a trip up here on a Monday afternoon when nothing is going on and get back to me.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
stlgph
Posts: 11044
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:14 am

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 44):

Look, I'm really really happy with your excitement about Viking river cruises in the U.S., but you just really aren't familiar with river cruises, are you?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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enilria
Posts: 9797
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:26 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 24):
Last I looked they had healthy connection opportunities via Copenhagen, Oslo, and London Gatwick. Each one can get you to most major cities in Europe.
Quoting spinkid (Reply 43):
anything to Europe would offer connections on Norwegian.

We were talking about LGW. If you look at their schedule at LGW, you will see that the Atlantic stuff connects to basically nothing of any value. Bergen anyone, with a 7 hour connect?

Are you actually suggesting MEM-Oslo? If so, I will leave you to that discussion uninterrupted.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7453
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Norwegian And MEM?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:40 pm

These Mississippi River cruises sound an awful like the supposed cruises on the Great Lakes - its something that has really struggled to catch on here in the United States and its been very niche market.

What is the realistic demand for people to fly from Europe to cruise the lower Mississippi?

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