New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 176

atcsundevil · Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:38 am

Continued from the previous discussion.

New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 175 (by qf789 Apr 5 2016 in Civil Aviation)

zkojq · Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:19 am

Quote:
- I want to watch the movies and food but I don't want a bag. I may even want works deluxe without the bag- de-bundle the baggage already.

I feel similarly when flying domestically. It would be nice if flexitime was unbundled so that one could avoid being charged for a bag when one is travelling light.

PA515 · Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:09 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 164):
Do you have a link to the A320NEO runway length table ?

No, couldn't find one. Also, the payload and rate of climb improvement of the A320NEO versus the A320-232 is proving difficult to quantify.

The A320NEO has heavier engines on a lighter airframe and can carry more payload. The Airbus website says the sharklets give a better rate of climb. Whether the engines add to that is not stated. For WLG the rate of climb on one engine is a factor.

The A320-232 has the 27,000 lb (120 kN} IAE V2527-A5. The NZCAA says this engine has a 24,800 lb 'take off thrust'. The A320NEO has the 27,000 lb (120 kN) PW1127G-JM. Don't know if the 'take off thrust' is the same.

PA515

PA515 · Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:21 pm

The Air NZ website schedule is in the process of being updated with the new domestic schedule effective 31 October 2016.

There are a lot of changes. The complex daily variations and separate Sat and Sun schedules are gone.

Overall the schedule has been simplified to a Mon to Sun format with some flights not operating on Sat and / or Sun. There are also some weekday flights that don't operate on Mon and Tue for example. The aircraft types on regional routes are now more consistently one type, and less aircraft over-night at regional airports.

Also, many of the first flights of the day depart earlier in the morning, and for each aircraft type there is a maintenance spare, possibly two for the ATRs. Will know for sure when all of the schedule is on the website.

There are 20 to 22 CHC-WLG / WLG-CHC flights each week day, but only two are 320s. One is a Q300, the rest ATRs. The CHC-WLG 0645/0730 320 is replaced by three ATRs, 0615/0715, 0640/0740 and 0715/0815.

KKE and WRE no longer have an aircraft over-night. HLZ has one less with an early morning WLG-HLZ ATR instead, BHE has one less with an early morning WLG-BHE Q300, and IVC has one less with an early morning CHC-IVC ATR. The exception is ROT which has one more with an early morning ROT-CHC ATR.

HLZ-PMR / PMR-HLZ increases to twice a day Mo-Fr Q300. CHC-NPE now has a morning ATR flight. And there's the second daily WLG-DUD 320 mentioned in a Stuff article linked in the previous thread.

PA515

PA515 · Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:49 pm

ZK-OKG as NZ29 IAH-AKL this morning tracked over East Cape heading 283 degrees! Thought it was LAN from SCL at first. It was about 50 mins late having left on time and appears to have tracked quite a bit east of PPT as it didn't show up on any of the FR24 receivers in French Polynesia.

PA515

ZaphodHarkonnen · Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:32 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 2):
For WLG the rate of climb on one engine is a factor.

My understanding is this is not a problem for ANZ as they have a one engine RNAV route up the Hutt Valley. So do not have to clear the Newlands hills on properly equipped aircraft.

ZKSUJ · Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:06 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 3):
CHC-NPE now has a morning ATR flight.

Wasn't CHC-NPE in the morning alreadyu an ATR?

aerorobnz · Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 4):
ZK-OKG as NZ29 IAH-AKL this morning tracked over East Cape heading 283 degrees!

It appears that it was flown at least EDTO240. except I suspect it may have been higher, as there doesn't appear to be deviation around the EDTO hole in the North Pacific on flightaware.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 1):
It would be nice if flexitime was unbundled so that one could avoid being charged for a bag when one is travelling light.

If would allow them to add a benefit for having a free bag for platinum credit card or elite status too.

[Edited 2016-04-19 16:31:19]

PA515 · Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:22 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 6):
Wasn't CHC-NPE in the morning alreadyu an ATR?

Only a Sat Q300 30 Apr to 29 Oct. CHC-NPE will increase to three flights a day We Th Fr Su from 31 Oct, and all ATRs.

PA515

[Edited 2016-04-19 16:25:04]

sunrisevalley · Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:32 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 4):
It was about 50 mins late

But was it ? Flight Aware quotes a fairly typical sector time of about 14hrs 20 min.

PA515 · Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 9):
Quoting PA515 (Reply 4):
It was about 50 mins late

But was it ? Flight Aware quotes a fairly typical sector time of about 14hrs 20 min.

Definitely 50-55 min late. Actual flight time was 14 hrs 57 min. Scheduled time of arrival is 0555, landed at 0644 plus a few minutes taxi time to the gate.

PA515

ZK-NBT · Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:02 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 4):

I noticed something similar a couple of weeks back one day.

777ER · Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:51 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 3):
There are 20 to 22 CHC-WLG / WLG-CHC flights each week day, but only two are 320s. One is a Q300, the rest ATRs. The CHC-WLG 0645/0730 320 is replaced by three ATRs, 0615/0715, 0640/0740 and 0715/0815.

Previously when flying to CHC I've always enjoyed flying on an ATR and would always book an ATR when possible for the 2x2 seats, but now the options are endless. I'm booked to CHC end of next month originally on an ATR but now rescheduled to an A320.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 1):
It would be nice if flexitime was unbundled so that one could avoid being charged for a bag when one is travelling light.

If would allow them to add a benefit for having a free bag for platinum credit card or elite status too.

I've always thought the Platinum cards should also include free standard seat selection

Motorhussy · Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:13 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 4):
It was about 50 mins late having left on time and appears to have tracked quite a bit east of PPT as it didn't show up on any of the FR24 receivers in French Polynesia.

You sure it left on time? My sister was supposed to be on this flight but the connection from ATL couldn't get in as there were problems on the ground in IAH. NZ re-routed her with UA ATL-SFO-SYD then NZ SYD-WLG.

aerorobnz · Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:38 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 13):
You sure it left on time?

The scheduled EET (gate to gate) is 14h25, The actual time on this flight 14h57. If you allow for 15min taxi time at IAH and 10 min on arrival at AKL and you pretty much get to the hour late.

sunrisevalley · Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:14 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 14):
The scheduled EET (gate to gate) is 14h25, The actual time on this flight 14h57. If you allow for 15min taxi time at IAH and 10 min on arrival at AKL and you pretty much get to the hour late.

Now I am thoroughly confused ! What am I missing here? The track on Flight Aware shows an about 310 degree heading from east of about Hawkes Bay. Why so far south?

aerorobnz · Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 15):
Now I am thoroughly confused ! What am I missing here? The track on Flight Aware shows an about 310 degree heading from east of about Hawkes Bay. Why so far south?

Just a guess,but there are a couple of low pressure cells expected to turn cyclonic near fiji and raro respectively, I don't know about the Northern Pacificthough, tie that in with air traffic congestion,and ATC probably just wanted to ensure all aircraft had enough breathing space to move around weather cells without incident. IAH is the obvious one to route east due starting further east to begin with I guess

sunrisevalley · Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:30 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 16):
tie that in with air traffic congestion,and ATC probably just wanted to ensure all aircraft had enough breathing space to move around weather cells without incident

Thanks for this. Easy to forget what the en route weather might be getting ready to dish up !

Zkpilot · Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:23 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 13):

Quoting PA515 (Reply 4):
It was about 50 mins late having left on time and appears to have tracked quite a bit east of PPT as it didn't show up on any of the FR24 receivers in French Polynesia.

You sure it left on time? My sister was supposed to be on this flight but the connection from ATL couldn't get in as there were problems on the ground in IAH. NZ re-routed her with UA ATL-SFO-SYD then NZ SYD-WLG.

More likely UA rerouted her rather than NZ since it would have been UA's responsibility to get her to IAH to connect with NZ. Even so, I don't really see what other option there would have been except possibly flying to LAX to get the late NZ service to AKL (NZ5).

ZaphodHarkonnen · Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:12 am

So today is my last day living in NZ for at least a couple years. It'll be a shame that I'll miss the start of SQ flights into WLG. But with any luck my first return home I'll get to do that flight. ^_^ And who knows, they might even start building an extension by the time I'm back. Here's hoping anyways.

Time to see what is up with all this Europe thing people keep talking about. :p

sunrisevalley · Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:35 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
I don't really see what other option there would have been except possibly flying to LAX to get the late NZ service to AKL (NZ5).

why would they do that. Lets keep the revenue in house seems to be the motto in this case. Now I have not checked the connections.

Zkpilot · Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:07 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
I don't really see what other option there would have been except possibly flying to LAX to get the late NZ service to AKL (NZ5).

why would they do that. Lets keep the revenue in house seems to be the motto in this case. Now I have not checked the connections.

Because it was an NZ ticket so if they had got them to LAX then they could have just used that IAH-AKl sector portion for the LAX-AKL. If correct classes not available then it may have cost them. Either way they would have had to pay NZ as the SYD-WLG flight would have to be paid.

aerorobnz · Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:04 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
More likely UA rerouted her rather than NZ since it would have been UA's responsibility to get her to IAH to connect with NZ

UA have a lot of experience in rebooking late connections. Ihave a rule of thumb - always overnight at your destination the day after you fly UA. I have had literally 2 ontime flights on UA out of many many flights, and reroutings/rebookings and lost luggage, No airline has caused me more issues in that regard - even QF who delayed me by two days getting home from Singapore.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):
Lets keep the revenue in house

hen it comes to NZ-USA NZ/UA is "inhouse" with their specific agreement. AA/QF being the same way.

kiwiandrew · Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:07 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 22):
hen it comes to NZ-USA NZ/UA is "inhouse" with their specific agreement

They have applied for ATI and revenue sharing, but it is not yet in place, so at the moment it's not 'inhouse' in that sense.

axio · Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:15 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):

I don't really see what other option there would have been except possibly flying to LAX to get the late NZ service to AKL (NZ5).

If it was NZ5 that left on Sunday night there would have been plenty of seats - it's been 10 years since I was last on such an empty long-haul - maybe 1/3 full. My colleague was on NZ1 the same night and it sounded similarly empty. It would have been an expensive night for the airline.

coolian2 · Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:21 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 22):
UA have a lot of experience in rebooking late connections. Ihave a rule of thumb - always overnight at your destination the day after you fly UA. I have had literally 2 ontime flights on UA out of many many flights, and reroutings/rebookings and lost luggage, No airline has caused me more issues in that regard - even QF who delayed me by two days getting home from Singapore.

To be fair to UA I wouldn't have been surprised if the staff at IAH were looking for two of every animal given how much it rained there.

Motorhussy · Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:07 am

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 19):

Will look forward to your Kiwi av perspectives from Europe. All the best.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 25):
To be fair to UA I wouldn't have been surprised if the staff at IAH were looking for two of every animal given how much it rained there.

Yes it was rain and surface flooding that were the issue.

zkojq · Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:51 am

Has anyone got an expected arrival date in Auckland for ZK-OXL?

777ER · Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:58 am

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 19):

All the best for the future, well the next couple of years anyway. Could have met up for a drink at the cafe beside the RNZAF hanger as I often ride my motorbike around the bays and stop for a hot/cold drink there.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 22):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
More likely UA rerouted her rather than NZ since it would have been UA's responsibility to get her to IAH to connect with NZ

UA have a lot of experience in rebooking late connections. Ihave a rule of thumb - always overnight at your destination the day after you fly UA. I have had literally 2 ontime flights on UA out of many many flights, and reroutings/rebookings and lost luggage, No airline has caused me more issues in that regard - even QF who delayed me by two days getting home from Singapore.

Interesting as I've had the exact opposite with UA. I've only had two UA flights either badly delayed or cancelled with the rest on time and no issues with connections or baggage. The badly delayed nearly cost me my NZ connection and resulted in me having a medical while taxiing at SFO which also gave me an upgrade to Business from Y+. The cancelled B788 service from DEN-IAH cost me a days exploring in MIA but gave me $75 food vouchers, DEN overnight with a nice hotel room view of the setting sun over the Colorado Mountains and one of the best sunrises I've ever seen while waiting for the airport bus to arrive

nascarnut · Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:37 pm

Part of the IAH issues right now is the tremendous flooding and storms occurring in the IAH area. IAH is experiencing some major outages with some areas having received over 18 inches or 45 cms of rain in last 3 days. UA may be rerouting passengers simply because they are experiencing major delays plus cancellations into IAH. They are probably also experiencing staffing issues with many staff not able to get to the airport due to flooded roads and houses. I've experienced in the past in IAH and road travel is extremely difficult when these types of floods are happening.

[Edited 2016-04-21 10:42:15]

nascarnut · Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:21 am

Appears MH is adding an 8th weekly flight AKL-KUL.
From Oct 31st extra flight on a Monday
MH130 ops Mon, Tue, Thu, Sun @ 1430 AKL-KUL
MH132 ops Mon @ 0100 AKL-KUL
MH132 ops Wed, Fri, Sat @ 0135 AKL-KUL
All with A330-300

aerokiwi · Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:19 am

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 19):
Time to see what is up with all this Europe thing people keep talking about. :p

Make the most of the amazing travel opportunities, man. WEird little airlines, amazing airports (Switzerland, Austria etc). Aviation geek's dream!

Zkpilot · Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:04 am

I see that the Australian Federal Government has announced a 500 metre extension for HBA airport runway to allow for international flights. NZ's next destination?

Sylus · Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:13 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 32):
I see that the Australian Federal Government has announced a 500 metre extension for HBA airport runway to allow for international flights. NZ's next destination?

The current runway at HBA is around 2,200 metres I believe, so this extension is probably more geared towards potential Asian flights. The current 2,200 metres is plenty for a NZ flight.

NZ1 · Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:56 am

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 27):
Has anyone got an expected arrival date in Auckland for ZK-OXL?

10th/11th May at this stage, though subject to change as always, depending on how the final delivery process goes.

NZ1

sunrisevalley · Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:41 am

Be interesting to see if the April traffic numbers show any weakening.

Quoting axio (Reply 24):
If it was NZ5 that left on Sunday night there would have been plenty of seats - it's been 10 years since I was last on such an empty long-haul - maybe 1/3 full. My colleague was on NZ1 the same night and it sounded similarly empty. It would

Gasman · Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:27 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 35):
Be interesting to see if the April traffic numbers show any weakening.

I was on QF between DFW and SYD last week.......... similar loading, perhaps 40% full. Maybe it's just a quiet patch.

NZ107 · Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting Gasman (Reply 36):

School holidays started last week so there would probably have been more northbound traffic at the time.

ZKOJH · Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:15 am

"Philippine Airlines: No worries about Air NZ flights"

Competition between Air New Zealand and Philippine Airlines is set to heat up, but it's not all bad news, according to an airline spokesperson.

Maria Cielo Villaluna said Air New Zealand's direct service to the Philippine's capital, Manila, would benefit the country's tourism industry.

"With this new inbound service, New Zealanders now have the chance to visit the top travel spots within the Philippines... this will mean good business for the airline," Villaluna said.

Earlier this month Air New Zealand announced it will begin flying direct to Manila from December, operating year round services on a Boeing 767-300, three times a week.

Air New Zealand's direct route will offer a flight time of 10.5 hours each way, while Philippine Airline's current route operates four times a week with a flight time of between 11 and 12 hours, including a one-hour stopover in Cairns, Australia.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11628303

777ER · Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:39 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 38):

Doesn't matter if Philippine Airlines service is direct or not, the customer will mainly choose based on who is the cheapest. Philippine serve two markets in one route and any competition will help both the carrier and market

sunrisevalley · Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 38):
Air New Zealand's direct route will offer a flight time of 10.5 hours each way,

Has anyone verified this ? Something like 9hrs 45min would seem to be more correct based on AKL-HKG at 11-hrs. Unless the cruise speed of the 767-300ER is significantly less than 485k.

aerorobnz · Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:46 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 40):

Yes. But it is probably more related to circling MNL to land. It may well just be a little padding to allow for how long you can get stuck in holding patterns inbound and waiting for departure outbound. I have pushed back early but been delayed on ground for almost an hour at MNL waiting for takeoff.

sunrisevalley · Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 41):
I have pushed back early but been delayed on ground for almost an hour at MNL waiting for takeoff.

so MNL has it own potential problems in local traffic control which don't sound good.

ZKSUJ · Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:18 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 41):
I have pushed back early but been delayed on ground for almost an hour at MNL waiting for takeoff.

Sounds like something AKL is aspiring to be

xiaotung · Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:05 am

When I posted about Stephen Jones' visit to Chengdu a few weeks ago for the potential AKL-CTU direct flights I didn't really think it would become a reality certainly not before the end of the year. It's incredible.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-could-be-next-after-manila-276055

Gasman · Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:17 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 43):
Sounds like something AKL is aspiring to be

Everything is relative. Sure, AKL isn't as efficient as it was, or perhaps should be but I was at CUN last week. This is no small-change third world facility; think something at least twice the size of AKL domestic and international combined. Everything - from check in, to baggage claim, to boarding to taxiing was inefficient, cumbersome, queue laden and seemingly all just too hard. On the return leg I had a 3.5 hour connection there and needed every minute of that (except three, to be precise) to make my onward flight. Had I not been both physically fit and relatively "airport savvy", I wouldn't have had a hope. It certainly made me feel churlish for ever casting aspersions on AKL.

zkncj · Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:51 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 44):
When I posted about Stephen Jones' visit to Chengdu a few weeks ago for the potential AKL-CTU direct flights I didn't really think it would become a reality certainly not before the end of the year. It's incredible.

Anything seems to be possible at the moment, NZ seems to be in an very good postion right now. With the the possible sale of the VA shares, maybe it could allow NZ to free up some capital to take some of the 789 options they have?

Every NZ flight I've been on this year has been near 100% full, despite increase competion.

Nouflyer · Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:28 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 44):
When I posted about Stephen Jones' visit to Chengdu a few weeks ago for the potential AKL-CTU direct flights I didn't really think it would become a reality certainly not before the end of the year. It's incredible.

Are they serious?

The Jetstar Gold Coast-Wuhan route is 100% outbound low-yield leisure traffic going to Sea World and Movie World.

Is Air New Zealand confident that there is a profitable market of people in Sichuan who want to have a holiday at Rainbow's End?

It's a truly staggering route.

zkojq · Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:19 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 43):
Sounds like something AKL is aspiring to be

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 47):
Is Air New Zealand confident that there is a profitable market of people in Sichuan who want to have a holiday at Rainbow's End?

At least it has better air quality than Shanghai Disneyland.

xiaotung · Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:36 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 47):
Are they serious?

The Jetstar Gold Coast-Wuhan route is 100% outbound low-yield leisure traffic going to Sea World and Movie World.

Is Air New Zealand confident that there is a profitable market of people in Sichuan who want to have a holiday at Rainbow's End?

It's a truly staggering route.

I said in the last thread, if MNL and SGN can work, so can CTU. CTU may not have the highest income per capita but NZ need only to target the top 1% and it's an untapped market. Also the Sichuan government seems to have a track record of subsidising foreign airlines and NZ loves that.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 48):
At least it has better air quality than Shanghai Disneyland.

At least they don't need to worry about sold out tickets for months and resort rates as high as the Maldives. Like Shanghai Disneyland, with the correct marketing and enough fanfare, they will come.

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