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UA444
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Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:19 pm

Since Boeing still needs to sell quite a few more 773s to bridge the gap between the 778/779 models, who else is a future prospect for sales? Are there any other new customers that might buy it, such as Kuwait Air or even Cubana if the embargo gets lifted? And top ups from current operators?

Could Boeing try to get Delta again with a screaming deal?

[Edited 2016-04-20 08:20:00]
 
AM744
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:26 pm

I wish AM ordered four of them (9 abreast, please) and put them to good use to MAD and CDG. I know I'm dreaming as harsh reality tells us 9 abreast 787-8s are enough. Maybe DL orders a bunch and sends over a couple to AM lol.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:28 pm

DL if Boeing gives them a steal, UA for a top off if they like their first few frames, and EK because it's EK.
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EddieDude
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:31 pm

Could Boeing also make an irresistible offer to AM for maybe 3-5 77Ws at killer prices? MAD and GRU could in my opinion support 77W service.

Honestly, I do not think AM would be interested; they seem to have made the decision to have the Dreamliner as their only long-haul solutionfor the time being. The 789 will be a great replacement for the 77E, offering similar seating and cargo capacity, and better range. Nonetheless, I wonder if, as MEX becomes more and more congested, and the economy keeps growing slowly but steadily, maybe routes other than GRU and MAD, such as PVG (77E right now), EZE, CDG and NRT (all three are 788 stations right now) could benefit from larger planes.

AM744, you are forgetting that up to ten 787-9s will also join the fleet. The first lands in October of this year. All 77Es will be gone by next year.

[Edited 2016-04-20 08:32:05]
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Beatyair
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:34 pm

Luftansia has now tested the 777F and may want to try them out, specially now.
 
TC957
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:38 pm

I thought KU were already getting 77W's for delivery later this year to replace their 2 772's and 4 A343's.
I see more 77F sales than 77W sales if anything. Plus it seems the much-rumoured EK top-up of 10 - 15 77L's has come to nothing.
 
UA444
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:48 pm

Is the PIA order for 5 still going to happen next year?
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:00 pm

SA could definitely use them. Maybe MH if they restructure the airline? OZ too maybe. Just some thoughts
 
krisyyz
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:13 pm

I think AC still has some options for 777s, although firming options on the 789s may be more likely. AC is getting 2 more 77Ws this year.

KrisYYZ
 
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AA777223
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:16 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):

SA could definitely use them. Maybe MH if they restructure the airline? OZ too maybe. Just some thoughts

Isn't there some tire speed issue with the 77W getting out of JNB, or has all of that been cleared up? I seem to remember reading something about that as one of the reasons (in addition to the obvious ETOPS issues) as to why SA went A340NG instead of 777.
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UAEflyer
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:36 pm

CX, JL, PR, NH, all of them have room for 77W currently.
 
UA444
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:52 pm

Is Iberia or EI AL a candidate?
 
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PW100
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:58 pm

I can see KLM order a couple more; they seem to build their 77W fleet in a slow, but steady pace. Despite numbers of 789 rolling in the coming years to replace upcoming 747 phase-outs, current growth rates would help support large frame fleet development.
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LSZH34
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:10 pm

Maybe LX takes another batch of 6. They are still looking for a replacment.
 
Sooner787
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:14 pm

Perhaps BA could order a few more? Seems they're very happy
with the ones they have now
 
Andy33
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 11):
Is Iberia or EI AL a candidate?
Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 14):
Perhaps BA could order a few more? Seems they're very happy
with the ones they have now

Iberia and BA are both part of IAG and IAG decides the fleet policy not the individual airlines.
Iberia is firmly locked into an Airbus pattern with A330s, A340s, and soon A350s. If they need extra lift quickly they are much more likely to seek extra A330s.
Now Wille Walsh, IAG's CEO has publicly expressed an interest in buying or leasing second hand 77Ws for use by BA. There's absolutely no indication that he'll sign on for brand new ones unless the price comes down to what he'd be prepared to pay for second-hand. He's also looking for second hand A380s.
 
Sooner787
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 pm

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 15):
Now Wille Walsh, IAG's CEO has publicly expressed an interest in buying or leasing second hand 77Ws for use by BA. There's absolutely no indication that he'll sign on for brand new ones unless the price comes down to what he'd be prepared to pay for second-hand. He's also looking for second hand A380s.

Perhaps IAG might make an offer to Boeing in case the 2 TAAG 77W's sitting around
at Everett become available
 
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SQ22
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:08 pm

I would guess could be interesting for IR and or other airlines from Iran. In the beginning for Asian routes and later with ETOPS in direction America. Of course some things still need to be solved.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:23 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 9):
Isn't there some tire speed issue with the 77W getting out of JNB, or has all of that been cleared up?

Tire speed is still a constraint. Rather depends on what routes they would look to use them on. So far as I can tell they would be limited to about 320t MTOW. or 5250nm at max passenger load. Probably good for anywhere in Europe but certainly not JFK and PEK. No doubt the A340-600 is doing a much better job on these routes.
 
pasu129
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:02 pm

AA ordering additional but with new seat provider?
DL selling their 77Ls to AM and replace them with 77Ws   
KL getting additional 77Ws to replace their 744s?
UA getting additional 77Ws at top up price?
WS instead of obtaining 763s for their longhaul, and becoming the first 77W LCC!   
Viva Las Vegas
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:27 pm

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 10):
PR

While PR like their 77Ws a lot, they have another two frames due by the end of the year and six HGW A359s coming starting in Q4 2018. Those would cover their short-term, long-haul capacity needs for now. They could exercise their option for another six A359s should international traffic demand to and from the country grow substantially in the meantime. PR seem to have learned their lesson re bulk ordering of widebody planes in quick succession.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:16 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 19):
AA ordering additional but with new seat provider?

Nah, I don't see that    They seem pretty happy with the 20 they have.

In a few years, I can see AA ordering the 777-9 in a small number, but besides that, their fleet is, for the most part, perfect.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:24 pm

Quoting sq22 (Reply 17):
and later with ETOPS in direction America.

There is a lot of misunderstanding on EDTO/ETOPS on Airliners.net. First, there is no EDTO>180 in the northern hemisphere. Second, the only EDTO > 180 routes are between Mexico and PPT; there is another between LAX and PPT and all of the South Pacific between SCL and NZL/AUS and between Mauritius and Australia.
 
MaxxFlyer
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:51 pm

QANTAS!      
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:04 am

UA, AA, KL, KE, MU, BR, CI (none of which have ordered 77X) could all make use of a few more. I think we are probably done with 77W orders for airlines that have already ordered both 77L/77W and 77X (ME3, CX, NH), unless someone wants to grow much faster than anticipated in the immediate term.

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 19):
DL selling their 77Ls to AM and replace them with 77Ws

But DL actually uses the 77L to its limits! JNB-ATL is insanely profitable by all accounts and certainly would not work on 77W. It's at the ragged edge of field performance for the 77L, so much so that Boeing and DL worked together to increase the tire speed limit by just a few knots.

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 23):
QANTAS!

77W ship has sailed... but if Boeing doesn't have sales staff wearing out the carpet in Qantas HQ pestering everyone from the receptionist on up about the 77X, they are failing.

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 19):
WS instead of obtaining 763s for their longhaul, and becoming the first 77W LCC!

A.net should be renamed "Most Creative and Fun Ways to Light Money On Fire.net"  
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:39 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 24):
It's at the ragged edge of field performance for the 77L, so much so that Boeing and DL worked together to increase the tire speed limit by just a few knots.

very interesting. I wonder what the fix was, some special formulation for the tires?
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:49 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 9):
Isn't there some tire speed issue with the 77W getting out of JNB
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 18):
Probably good for anywhere in Europe but certainly not JFK and PEK. No doubt the A340-600 is doing a much better job on these routes.

Actually, SA no longer flies JNB-PEK, but CA flies that route on the 77W. CX also sends their 77W to JNB.
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:05 am

Is the 787 eating into 777 sales?
 
trex8
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:09 am

CI still have options for 6 77Ws and they got 18-21 744Fs to eventually replace. I wouldn't be surprised they go 77F rather than 747-8F.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:45 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see NZ pick up a couple if Boeing gave them a decent price for them. Would work nicely for upguaging and rationalising the fleet.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:36 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 25):
I wonder what the fix was, some special formulation for the tires?

I don't know whether it was a physical change to the tires, a tighter calculation of thermal limits, or both.
 
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CARST
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:26 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 27):
Is the 787 eating into 777 sales?

Only into the 77E & 77L sales, not into the 77W sales. But still, I guess it keeps airlines from ordering the non-X'ed 777s.
 
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persiangulf93
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:55 am

I am quite sure that IranAir will buy a good amount of them!
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:21 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 9):
Isn't there some tire speed issue with the 77W getting out of JNB, or has all of that been cleared up?
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 24):
so much so that Boeing and DL worked together to increase the tire speed limit by just a few knots.

Goodyear had a lot to do with that too
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
AroundTheGlobe
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:31 am

OS? Soon they need to renew their longhaul fleet. But could they sell those extra seats without losing money?
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RickNRoll
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:20 am

Quoting CARST (Reply 31):
Only into the 77E & 77L sales, not into the 77W sales. But still, I guess it keeps airlines from ordering the non-X'ed 777s.

Normally I don't think much of the idea that airlines would rather sell one model over another, they are in the business of selling planes. Hence the idea that the A330neo is taking some A350 sales hurts Airbus? I don't think Airbus really cares.

When it comes to the 77W and 787 though. Boeing currently makes a lot more from the 77W than the 787 and the gap in the line is going to cost Boeing a lot of money.
 
rlwynn
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:53 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 4):
Luftansia has now tested the 777F and may want to try them out, specially now.

They already own 50% of eight of them and five themselves. I do not think they need to test them since they have been flying them for seven years now.

[Edited 2016-04-21 07:57:54]
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UA444
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Has AR ever thought about ordering them to replace their A340s?
 
UA444
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 6:09 pm

How many 777s does Boeing still need to sell to close the production gap between the current models And the 777X?
 
COEWR787
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting sq22 (Reply 17):
I would guess could be interesting for IR and or other airlines from Iran. In the beginning for Asian routes and later with ETOPS in direction America. Of course some things still need to be solved.

didn't Iran Air sign a big fat MOU of some sort with Airbus a couple of weeks back?
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 39):
didn't Iran Air sign a big fat MOU of some sort with Airbus a couple of weeks back?

They did, but that doesn't mean no room for the 77W. The Airbus order covers A330ceos and neos, they cover the near and long term medium haul routes. The A380 if they actually get it will do the premium and prestigious routes, but it may be a while before they're really capable of filling them. If we are to believe that IR need even relatively new aircraft quickly, then the 77W seems a perfect fit, and let's be honest: the 77W makes more sense for IR than the A380, at least for the foreseeable future. Against it is the fact that it would be best used for long haul routes, but without confirmation of being able to launch flights to the USA their need for long haul aircraft isn't as big.
 
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SQ22
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 6:55 pm

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 39):

didn't Iran Air sign a big fat MOU of some sort with Airbus a couple of weeks back?

They did, but I am sure that was not all what they need. This order was only for IR.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...s-release-detail/detail/iran-deal/
 
Cipango
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 7:01 pm

Quoting AroundTheGlobe (Reply 34):
OS? Soon they need to renew their longhaul fleet. But could they sell those extra seats without losing money?

They recently just updated their interiors on the 777's so I don't think they will be replacing them too soon. They have 3-4-3 seating at the moment so the extra seats will improve the economics for at least a few years.
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dcajet
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 8:02 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 37):
Has AR ever thought about ordering them to replace their A340s?

Boeing has pitched the 777 to AR but the airline eventually decided to partly replace the A340s with A330-200. I suppose nothing is out of the question, but last month Airbus had its A350 at EZE on a demo visit to AR's top brass. I understand the airline is taking a keen look at it to replace the last six A340s that remain, due to be withdrawn from service in 2019.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 8:28 pm

EK must have some 77W coming off lease in a year or two. I think these need to be figured in somewhere.
 
theobcman
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Mon May 02, 2016 8:34 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 36):

I think what he actually means is LH have tried & tested the 77F for several years and are very happy so they may want to try 77W for pax.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Tue May 03, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 43):
Boeing has pitched the 777 to AR but the airline eventually decided to partly replace the A340s with A330-200. I suppose nothing is out of the question, but last month Airbus had its A350 at EZE on a demo visit to AR's top brass. I understand the airline is taking a keen look at it to replace the last six A340s that remain, due to be withdrawn from service in 2019.

I think they key routes here are EZE to FCO, BCN and MAD (with the uncertainty that the first two might be ended). If I am not mistaken, the A332 struggles, which is why they need the A343s (for the record, UX uses A332s for their EZE flights, so I suppose that where the plane really suffers is FCO-EZE). I guess AR's decision to maintain their European routes or not will also dictate whether they need a 777 or A350 type plane. Maybe a combo of A338 and A339NEOs would solve AR's long-haul needs without them having to go for a very expensive plane (A350) or a new type that would involve a lot of costs (777).
Upcoming flights:
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reffado
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Tue May 03, 2016 1:40 am

To add to the fire: JJ will probably be returning their 77Ws in the near future as A350s are delivered, as far as I know. 10 frames delivered between 2008 and 2013.

As for AR's case, I doubt they'd go for such a capacity increase. I could see them doing the A350 at most - the 77W is just too much plane for them it seems, at least right now.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Who Else Could Order 777-300ERs?

Tue May 03, 2016 2:19 pm

How much larger width, length, height, will thee the 778 & 779 be compared to the 777-300ER?
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