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Mortyman
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Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:46 pm

Norwegian Air CEO says may order extra 10 Dreamliners from Boeing

"We have an option for an extra 10 Dreamliners (on top of the 40 we have under delivery). We will likely use that option says Norwegian ceo Bjørn Kjos

http://uk.reuters.com/article/norweg...r-boeing-dreamliners-idUKO9N15P02D

[Edited 2016-04-21 12:50:08]
 
tortugamon
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:35 pm

That would make them the 4th largest 787 customer. Interesting. Should take a while though I suspect.

tortugamon
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:39 pm

Impressive. Must be because of the DOT allowing them to work under their Irish certificate. Hipefully we will see many announcements for this summer soon.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Cipango
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 2):

Impressive. Must be because of the DOT allowing them to work under their Irish certificate. Hipefully we will see many announcements for this summer soon.

If you're referring to the recent approval of the DOT I think you are a little confused as to what was decided. Most if not all of their 787's are Irish registered and have been since delivery.

[Edited 2016-04-21 14:51:20]
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:53 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 3):

Yes I am referring to that. Didn't they move them all to the Norwegian AOC a year ago because they are all registered with LN at the beggining (which is the regustration for all aircraft from Norway) ?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
kdhurst380
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 4):
Yes I am referring to that. Didn't they move them all to the Norwegian AOC a year ago because they are all registered with LN at the beggining (which is the regustration for all aircraft from Norway) ?

The 787s aren't and never have been LN registered, EI-LNA was the first delivered and this aircraft has carried this registration since delivery. The 737's are a mix of LN- & EI- currently, but are moving over to the G- register on Norwegians UK AOC. There is one currently operating under the registration G-NRWY.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:44 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 5):

Only one is registered in the Irish reg for their longhaul fleet:

https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian-Long-Haul
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kdhurst380
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:52 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 6):
Only one is registered in the Irish reg for their longhaul fleet:

https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian-Long-Haul

I stand corrected. Christ knows what they're doing then, if you look at the history, they were all delivered with Irish regs and appear to have only recently changed!
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:02 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):
That would make them the 4th largest 787 customer. Interesting. Should take a while though I suspect.

Upcomming deliveries:

2016: Has already recaved 2 Boeing 787-9. 2 remaining for delivery this year.

2017: 9

2018: 9

2019: 5

2020: 5

That is not counting the possible 10 that is mentioned here.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:41 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):

2017: 9
2018: 9

That's aggressive. I wish them luck. Wish more airlines would take some chances on TATL like DY is. I think they will be rewarded....eventually.

tortugamon
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:17 am

Wasn't Norwegian having significant teething problems with their first 787s? They must have figured it all out. It sure seems the 787 is perfect for them now.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:45 am

It will be interesting to see how many other opportunities it can see.

It will likely connect more existing dots from cities bases, including from markets like MAD, BCN and FCO that it has discussed. There's a point though that the model may well be more challenging to achieve great results, especially if higher fuel costs return.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:08 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 6):
Only one is registered in the Irish reg for their longhaul fleet:

https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian-Long-Haul

Yup. They were registered in the Norway registry because of the DOT troubles. They then registered a bunch of 737s to Ireland instead. It will be interesting to see what they do now. I'm guessing they'll register the 787s back to Ireland.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
Upcomming deliveries:

2016: Has already recaved 2 Boeing 787-9. 2 remaining for delivery this year.

2017: 9

2018: 9

2019: 5

2020: 5

That is not counting the possible 10 that is mentioned here.

20 787-9 over the next two and a half years. That's a lot. I'm guessing we'll see increased frequencies some places, as well as opening of more rumored long haul bases, for example BCN.

With the reported load factors of above 90%, it suggests they have no problem filling their aircraft. Which means they either don't have enough aircraft, or they've priced their products too low. Will be interesting to follow the developments, especially if Ryanair is going to feed their LGW based fleet.
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:28 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 9):
That's aggressive. I wish them luck. Wish more airlines would take some chances on TATL like DY is. I think they will be rewarded....eventually.

tortugamon

Look at like this, he's an old school crappie fisherman in the Delta. He's got this Jon boat with bunch of cane poles sticking out in every direction with a minnow( sub $1,000 fare TATL service) on the.end of the hook of each one, he's trolling to pass over a decent sized school of fish (US Cities with sweets to give away) and the poles will all get bites. Some will be keepers and others will be thrown back. At the end of the day , he is hopeful he is at his limit and has bounty to eat. It's why he threw out markets like Memphis and New Orleans to CNBC. He is throwing out conventional wisdom on how the US market works and attempting to rewrite the rules and the $1,500 dollar plus fares for markets like that fed through the mega hub machine will be tossed out the window. As a consumer and nothing much more I'll win for a time or for the duration. A Brave New World may be upon us.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:45 am

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 13):

Look at like this, he's an old school crappie fisherman in the Delta. He's got this Jon boat with bunch of cane poles sticking out in every direction with a minnow( sub $1,000 fare TATL service) on the.end of the hook of each one, he's trolling to pass over a decent sized school of fish (US Cities with sweets to give away) and the poles will all get bites. Some will be keepers and others will be thrown back. At the end of the day , he is hopeful he is at his limit and has bounty to eat. It's why he threw out markets like Memphis and New Orleans to CNBC. He is throwing out conventional wisdom on how the US market works and attempting to rewrite the rules and the $1,500 dollar plus fares for markets like that fed through the mega hub machine will be tossed out the window. As a consumer and nothing much more I'll win for a time or for the duration. A Brave New World may be upon us.

A little melodramatic don't you think? They are expanding at a fast pace in the hopes of eventually turning a profit. EK they are not. Eventually they have to stick to a fleet and routes and try and make money to survive.
 
Someone83
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:42 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 12):
They then registered a bunch of 737s to Ireland instead

Not "instead" as this would have happened anyway, and has nothing to do with longhaul, but just because they wan't their European based 737s, such as those in Spain as an examble, to operate under an EU AOC. This the aircraft belongs to their Irish subsidiary
 
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PM
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:14 am

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Norwegian Air CEO says may order extra 10 Dreamliners from Boeing
Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):
That would make them the 4th largest 787 customer.

They all been RR so far.   
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:25 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 11):
There's a point though that the model may well be more challenging to achieve great results, especially if higher fuel costs return.

Higher fuel costs might actually help them. They have the youngest, and most fuel efficient fleet currently flying across the atlantic. If fuel costs increase, then other airlines will be hit harder, and will be increasing fares a lot more than Norwegian will need to. This will make them stand out even more, and swing more passengers looking for a bargain towards them.
 
Chaostheory
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:52 am

What needs to been mentioned is the strength of the USD versus European currencies. Despite the windfall from lower fuel prices, and I believe LN is paying close to spot price, aircraft leases, financing, fuel and maintenance are largely in USD. As such, many EU airlines are finding lower fuel price benefits wiped out by currency losses.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:17 am

Quoting PM (Reply 16):
They all been RR so far.   

I recall they picked up a deferred Icelandair order originally, with RR already onboard, and have ordered RR since.
 
willyknut
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:42 pm

At the moment DY is banned from overflying Russia due to AOC/crew restrictions. AFAIK they're only allowed across Russian airspace if they carry a 100% norwegian crew, which they never do.
Adds almost one hour flying time to the BKK routes from Scandinavia compared to the more direct tracks over Russia. Until this issue is sorted it restricts DY's possibilities for expanding long haul to China, Korea and Japan, it's a long way around Russia...
Hence, DY is looking west at the moment, and also contemplating South America from their hubs in southern Europe. Nonstop Europe-HNL has also been mentioned, if it goes ahead it will be the first ever nonstop service from Europe to Hawaii.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:55 pm

Quoting willyknut (Reply 20):

Is this why they stopped their OSL-LED service?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 17):
Higher fuel costs might actually help them. They have the youngest, and most fuel efficient fleet currently flying across the atlantic. If fuel costs increase, then other airlines will be hit harder, and will be increasing fares a lot more than Norwegian will need to. This will make them stand out even more, and swing more passengers looking for a bargain towards them.

Depends how deep the pockets of the other guy are. They can increase frequency and drop price with a view to driving DY out ot the market. It's all reminding me more and more of Air Europe, a complex mess IMHO.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:25 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 10):
Wasn't Norwegian having significant teething problems with their first 787s?

They had a very aggressive EIS ; there were other carriers almost as aggressive but with more depth of experience and resources to support their aggressiveness.
 
willyknut
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:48 pm

Quoting willyknut (Reply 20):
Is this why they stopped their OSL-LED service?

No, stopping LED (and SVO earlier) was supposedly due to the russians not willing to accept DY's fare structure. The russians stuck to fixed high prices and did not accept DY's wish to sell some rock bottom fares.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 10):
Wasn't Norwegian having significant teething problems with their first 787s?

Indeed. Hours delayed was the norm and one time they were 72 hours late leaving FLL. No alternative transport or accomodation for the unlucky pax didn't do them much good in the Scandinavian press at the time.
They basicly overscheduled their brand new planes, of which they did not have enough operating experience, overworked their equally inexperienced long haul flight ops department and did not have sufficient crew and maintnance back up. Learning the hard way, they got their act together quite fast and seems to be doing pretty well these days.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 15):
Not "instead" as this would have happened anyway, and has nothing to do with longhaul, but just because they wan't their European based 737s, such as those in Spain as an examble, to operate under an EU AOC. This the aircraft belongs to their Irish subsidiary

The article I read about it suggested it was done "instead". But that doesn't matter.

Why do they want to operate under an EU AOC for short haul routes? Irish tax rules?
 
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bluefltspecial
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 14):
A little melodramatic don't you think? They are expanding at a fast pace in the hopes of eventually turning a profit. EK they are not. Eventually they have to stick to a fleet and routes and try and make money to survive.

They're back in the black. See this link for more of a broken down detail of their finances:
Norwegian Air back in profit, signals aggressive long haul expansion. DoT help would be welcome

Quoting willyknut (Reply 24):
Quoting willyknut (Reply 20):
Is this why they stopped their OSL-LED service?

No, stopping LED (and SVO earlier) was supposedly due to the russians not willing to accept DY's fare structure. The russians stuck to fixed high prices and did not accept DY's wish to sell some rock bottom fares.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 10):
Wasn't Norwegian having significant teething problems with their first 787s?

Indeed. Hours delayed was the norm and one time they were 72 hours late leaving FLL. No alternative transport or accomodation for the unlucky pax didn't do them much good in the Scandinavian press at the time.
They basicly overscheduled their brand new planes, of which they did not have enough operating experience, overworked their equally inexperienced long haul flight ops department and did not have sufficient crew and maintnance back up. Learning the hard way, they got their act together quite fast and seems to be doing pretty well these days.

While they currently have a small fleet, I believe they are learning that they need to schedule a spare at some point in the future. They currently hold the title for the airline with the most blown slides on the 787. Along with this they seem to constantly have an aircraft grounded for being hit by ground service vehicles, it's averaging almost once a month. They finally have become savvy and have started using airlines like HiFly of Euro Atlantic when they have an OOS aircraft.

Word is now with the tentative approval from the US DoT, they are looking into the 787-10 as well. Interestingly, if you happen to be a passenger on the 787-9 on Norwegian, it looks as though they have pre loaded their long haul system map into their PTVs with their planned US and Europe destinations which are as of now unannounced.
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WaywardMemphian
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:31 pm

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 26):
Word is now with the tentative approval from the US DoT, they are looking into the 787-10 as well. Interestingly, if you happen to be a passenger on the 787-9 on Norwegian, it looks as though they have pre loaded their long haul system map into their PTVs with their planned US and Europe destinations which are as of now unannounced.

Well, what are the routes? No one write them down?
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:00 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 27):

I am also interested to know. I think he said the same exact thing in another thread.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:14 pm

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 26):
they are looking into the 787-10 as well

Why would they want the Boeing 787-10 ? What routes would such an aircraft be good for ? I mean it has the shortest range of all the 787 versions ...
 
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bluefltspecial
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:00 am

If you're interested feel free to private message me, but I work for a company that does business with Norwegian. So, in the interest in of not jeopardizing my job, I thought it best not to post them publicly. I'm sure you understand.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:34 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):
Why would they want the Boeing 787-10 ? What routes would such an aircraft be good for ? I mean it has the shortest range of all the 787 versions ...


sectors of 10 to 12 hours. That can get you quite a long way from OSL.
 
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eurowings
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:40 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 25):
Why do they want to operate under an EU AOC for short haul routes? Irish tax rules?

I wrote a research paper recently on trends in this area. I haven't so far seen any evidence that the AOC has been used for anything they couldn't do on the Norwegian AOC. My theory (note: not fact) is that it allows the Scandinavian and non-Scandinavian bases/operations to be clearly isolated from each other for labour cost reasons. The crews in Finland, Spain and the UK are hired through agencies, and the pay and conditions aren't as generous as the Scandinavian-based staff (partly due to the lower cost of living and taxes in these countries). By having the non-Scandinavian operations on an Irish license, you take away the Norwegian government/regulators/unions as a stakeholder in the wider European operations.

They're running two different business models in Europe really, but it would make them uncompetitive against the big cost leaders (EZY, FR etc) if they didn't do it. It really comes down to the fact that Europe has so many different social and employment models, but a single labour market in theory. What better way to benefit from the conditions your large Irish rival enjoys than to become an Irish carrier yourself!

[Edited 2016-04-23 19:49:14]

[Edited 2016-04-23 19:51:37]
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
tortugamon
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:11 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):
Why would they want the Boeing 787-10 ? What routes would such an aircraft be good for ? I mean it has the shortest range of all the 787 versions ...

It has the best economics of the group as well. There are a lot of DY routes that are less than 5,000nm

Quoting eurowings (Reply 32):
My theory (note: not fact) is that it allows the Scandinavian and non-Scandinavian bases/operations to be clearly isolated from each other for labour cost reasons.

Not a theory, fact.

tortugamon
 
Someone83
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:06 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 31):
can get you quite a long way from OSL.

Or LGW  
 
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bluefltspecial
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:34 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):
Why would they want the Boeing 787-10 ? What routes would such an aircraft be good for ? I mean it has the shortest range of all the 787 versions ...

Norwegian is planning double daily on LGW-JFK, why? Because. Every. Flight. Is. Full. Need I go on? Out of the 20 or so LGW-JFK/JFK/LGW flights I've been on between the two cities, only one or two have had more than a handful of open seats between both cabins. Adding the -10 means +50-75 seats, which lowers the CASM and raises the RASM. They have plenty of routes between London and the US that they could use this on, not to mention some inter-Europe area flying as well.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
by738
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:57 am

Slightly different market but BA about to grab some of the LGW-NYC market, slot sitter or not.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:57 am

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 35):
not to mention some inter-Europe area flying as well

That would be interesting. I do not think that there is much intra European flying going on today with such big aircrafts like the Boeing 787 ... How many European airlines use such longhaul aircraft intra Europe ? Lufthansa ?
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:29 am

Quoting willyknut (Reply 24):
No, stopping LED (and SVO earlier) was supposedly due to the russians not willing to accept DY's fare structure. The russians stuck to fixed high prices and did not accept DY's wish to sell some rock bottom fares.

My take on this along with SK also dropping OSL to Russia flights was lack of punters buying seats, a lot of business customers aren't flying to Russia anymore due to sanctions.
 
Crazy4Planes
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:47 pm

Will DY use these new aircrafts on routes to India?
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:55 pm

Quoting Crazy4Planes (Reply 39):
Will DY use these new aircrafts on routes to India?

The 787-9's ?

Yes they have mentioned India as a possibility from the UK.

When and if it will happen is an open question.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:10 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):

LGW-JFK,LGW-LAX,LGW-OAK and LGW-FLL could probably all work with the 787-10.

Quoting Crazy4Planes (Reply 39):

I think the problem with India was that DY has to overfly Russia and they have some problems with that.

Quoting bluefltspecial (Reply 35):

What routes could they use it within Europe?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Someone83
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:56 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 41):
LGW-LAX, LGW-OAK

The 787-10 will likely suffer to much payload restriction to be used from Europe til California
 
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eurowings
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:11 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 41):
What routes could they use it within Europe?

They could use it on a very limited basis in Europe, to cover any gaps in the flying schedule. One rotation on high volume leisure routes like OSL/CPH/LGW to AGP.

EI does something similar with an A330, it flies DUB-AGP between rotations to the US.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
tortugamon
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:08 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 42):
The 787-10 will likely suffer to much payload restriction to be used from Europe til California

4,500nm is very much in a 787-10s wheel house. It should make it out to 4,000 at MTOW.

tortugamon
 
georgiabill
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:21 pm

I think LGW-BOS would be a 787-10 route peak travel seasons
 
A388
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:26 pm

Does Norwegian have plans to start or expand longhaul Caribbean flights? Do they currently only fly to San Juan?


A388
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:02 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 44):
4,500nm is very much in a 787-10s wheel house. It should make it out to 4,000 at MTOW.

I agree. An 11hr sector time LGW-LAX is longer than normal and on such a day the 787-10 would be good for ~ 39t payload which is max passenger load plus some.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:48 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 42):

They could still use it and make quite some profit with it.

Quoting A388 (Reply 46):

They also serve St Croix. Other then that they could do longhal flights to Martinique and Guadalupe (where they have seasonal bases) to CDG but I don't think that will happen.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
njdevilsin03
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:03 am

RE: Norwegian Will Likely Order Another 10 B787-9's

Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:35 pm

How are loads in and out of FLL
717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,

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