nitepilot79
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Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:50 pm

Boy I'm glad I wasn't stuck in this situation. It sure seems like something could and should have been done differently. Sounds like a nightmare...

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2016/0...nside-plane-at-indian-airport.html

Article quote:

"According to the Times of India, SpiceJet Flight SG487 from Mumbai to Kolkata was forced to make an emergency landing Sunday night at Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar International Airport in Nagpur due to a technical issue.

Unfortunately for passengers, the Nagpur airport is not on SpiceJet’s regular service list and had no support or ground staff on site when the plane landed. With the mechanic having to be flown to the aircraft’s location, the 190 passengers onboard Flight SG487 were forced to stay inside the plane until the following morning."
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:51 pm

This is why I'm glad we finally got the 3-hour rule in the USA.

This used to happen with some regularity in this country until finally Congress gave the airlines a reason to think that maybe this wasn't a good idea.
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bennett123
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:09 pm

Not clear why they could not disembark.
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:27 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
Not clear why they could not disembark.

OP mentioned from the article

Quoting nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
Unfortunately for passengers, the Nagpur airport is not on SpiceJet’s regular service list and had no support or ground staff on site when the plane landed.
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joffie
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:39 pm

Lucky no one decided to open the door and pull the emergency chute.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:25 am

Quoting joffie (Reply 4):
Lucky no one decided to open the door and pull the emergency chute.

I wouldn't have blamed them. Actually, I would consider it appropriate. (Probably not legal, but that is a different discussion).

Lightsaber
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TruemanQLD
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:32 am

Quoting nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
Unfortunately for passengers, the Nagpur airport is not on SpiceJet’s regular service list and had no support or ground staff on site when the plane landed. With the mechanic having to be flown to the aircraft’s location, the 190 passengers onboard Flight SG487 were forced to stay inside the plane until the following morning."

This isn't really any excuse. Airlines divert to locations they don't have ground staff all the time and yet are still able to organise with local providers to organise it. I have personally seen it many times when airlines divert to my local airport that do not fly there normally but are still provided with service. Yes, it is a lesser service due to staff availability, but they are still able to disembark!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:47 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
Quoting joffie (Reply 4):
Lucky no one decided to open the door and pull the emergency chute.

I wouldn't have blamed them. Actually, I would consider it appropriate. (Probably not legal, but that is a different discussion).

  

Thoughts of opening the door to free myself would definitely be considered in such a situation regardless of the consequences.
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mayor
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:43 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):

I wouldn't have blamed them. Actually, I would consider it appropriate.

Actually may have made the problem worse. Since parts availability, like the slide, is probably sparse, a no go item like that might mean that they sat there even longer.
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migair54
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:54 am

But why do they have to stay on board?? I don't understand, they can arrange with any other airline to provide stairs and even ground support and pay them after that, or I am sure there must be any kind of handling company like Swissport who can handle any plane that need it.

They divert to an airport with no Spicejet service due to an emergency, then keep the pax on board the whole night, one pax has to be taken to hospital, the engineer fix the problem and they continue to Kolkata, it is very crazy situation, I don't really understand anything, local pax in local airport with local airline so no visa problems or other issues.

Quoting joffie (Reply 4):
Lucky no one decided to open the door and pull the emergency chute.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
I wouldn't have blamed them. Actually, I would consider it appropriate. (Probably not legal, but that is a different discussion).

It is really strange, because it's not easy to keep people under control so long.

What did the crew do?? there are very clear rules about duty time and minimum rest time, so I don't think the crew can stay on board so long and then operate the flight after that.

[Edited 2016-04-22 01:05:11]
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:06 am

Curious, how were the crew properly rested in order to continue the flight?
The article also states that a pax was taken off the plane due to heart problem so the door was opened, I would have got off.
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okay
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:20 am

This story is just incredible. Why the crew did not ask the tower to provide them with info about ad hoc ground service? I'm sure one of the providers would have picked up the phone. It happens all the time, airplanes get diverted for what ever reason to airports the airline has no normal operations.

The story itself states two incidents, by the way. The unscheduled landing was due to a technical, another incident occurred while on ground when a pax suffered heart problems and was rushed to hospital. This indicates that at least stairs were attached to the aircraft at some point. Why the pax were forced to stay inside the plane is beyond me.
 
Lofty
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:26 am

I thought most airports have an agreement with one of the handling agents to cover diversions who come to their airport who don't normally operate there.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:27 am

People routinely spend 15+ hours on airplanes on transcontinental routes. more when there are delays.

I mean, yes, this is different, but provided they had the a/c running and enough food and drinks onboard to entertain the passengers, there is a chance that these pax were better off on the airplane than in a poorly equipped terminal with no air conditioning and not enough seats for everyone...
This is India after all.
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okay
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:45 am

Quoting Lofty (Reply 12):

I'm pretty sure every Airport has at least some sort of emergency contact at least, a very frequent scenario is that airplane diverts to an airport due to medical, it would be quite bad if the Airport admin would say "sorry can't help you get the pax out by providing stairs as we have no system in place to cater for unscheduled/emergency situations."
 
okay
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:48 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):

If the aircraft was not provided with ground services, where did they get ground electricity? I doubt they had the APU running all night.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:04 am

Quoting okay (Reply 15):
I doubt they had the APU running all night.

Why not?
Plus, we don't know exactly how long the plane was on the ground for. It could have been 8+ hours or about 4. 'The whole night' doesn't really say anything.
Not that I'm playing the devil's advocate, but this is a low cost, in India, and reported by Fox News, no less.
I'll stop short of throwing my arms in the air of disbelief until I read something a little more substantial...

As I said, some pax actually pay to be stuck in an airplane for over 16 hours in not much more comfort, so it must not have been pleasant, but I can't see a reason to be outraged. Especially since the facilities on the ground might not have been much more pleasant than the inside of the plane...
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okay
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:22 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 16):

APU runs on fuel and is usually very noisy. Difficult indeed to say more without exact details, but I would still choose even poorly equipped terminal than airplane cabin with APU running on top of me or not meaning I'd be sweating like never before.

I would not compare a long haul flight running normally to being stuck inside an airplane cabin on tarmac. So many variables are different in these two scenarios.

It sounds the airline was trying to save in the wrong place.
 
migair54
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:27 am

Quoting Lofty (Reply 12):
I thought most airports have an agreement with one of the handling agents to cover diversions who come to their airport who don't normally operate there.

Not really necessary and agreement, just contact one ground handling agent in that airport from any Spicejet office and tell them to supply that flight with the kind of ground support they need, they can supply, stairs, GPU, Toilet service, refueling, handling pax, even booking hotels, and all you want to pay.

For example very few airlines serve Shannon, St John or Keflavik, but many planes divert there and they all get service. One of the very few cases like this I can remember it was, I think, an united B777 that landed somewhere in a remote place in Alaska with no facilities to handle such a plane, then it's logic they stay on board until a replacement plane arrived.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):
I mean, yes, this is different, but provided they had the a/c running and enough food and drinks onboard to entertain the passengers, there is a chance that these pax were better off on the airplane than in a poorly equipped terminal with no air conditioning and not enough seats for everyone...
This is India after all.

you'll be surprise with many Indian airports, we are not talking about local train stations,
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:25 pm

From the article... "Instead of booking the passengers into a local hotel, they were not even granted airport access and instead were forced to stay on the plane."
It sounds as if they were held hostage. What could have been the reason for this
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:37 pm

According to Wikipedia, Nagpur airport handles several commercial airlines, including widebodies. In the situation of ad-hoc ground handling without prior notice I'd imagine the cost of handling the aircraft was more than SpiceJet's operational management was willing to pay. Therefore, in the name of frugality (read: cheapness) the decision was made that iit would be appropriate for passengers to stay on the plane overnight. Of course, the crew was probably removed and put into a hotel as they are critical to the aircraft being able to depart after the repairs.
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G-CIVP
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:23 pm

As long as it wasn't you who got caught up in this mess I wouldn't worry!
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 9):
But why do they have to stay on board?? I don't understand, they can arrange with any other airline to provide stairs and even ground support and pay them after that, or I am sure there must be any kind of handling company like Swissport who can handle any plane that need it.

Simple: money.

You let the passengers off, you may be liable to pay their meals and hotels. And lose some of the ticket revenue, if they can claim they didn't get transported to the expected destination.

You keep the passengers inside, you hold them hostage and will only incur catering and fuel costs. Some passengers might get medical problems, stroke or die of heat... but on the positive side, money was saved!

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):
I mean, yes, this is different, but provided they had the a/c running and enough food and drinks onboard to entertain the passengers, there is a chance that these pax were better off on the airplane than in a poorly equipped terminal with no air conditioning and not enough seats for everyone...

The odds of having new meals are pretty low, in my opinion. In any case, there passengers may not be able to lie down and rest, the toilet facilities are limited, the heat may be bad in the plane, etc.
 
texdravid
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:59 pm

Just terrible. Whether it is the government or private companies, the adage of taking care of your customer is non-existent in India.

It's cultural, as Indians just don't help others if it doesn't benefit them in some ways.

The west and America in particular, are light years ahead in terms of customer satisfaction, duties to their customers, and a general concern about people who you are trying to help or may be in a lower social class than you, or less powerful than you.

P.S. I say this as an Indian myself.
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ec99
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:13 pm

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 20):
Of course, the crew was probably removed and put into a hotel as they are critical to the aircraft being able to depart after the repairs.

I doubt this occurred. Is it legal to leave passengers on the plane without any crew? I very much doubt you can leave the APU running without the crew present.

Also, the average low in Nagpur for the next week is 80+ degrees (average high is 111). It would amaze me if a APU could keep a plane cool in that heat.

I think there has to be more to this story. If not, this airline has committed a serious safety violation.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):

People routinely spend 15+ hours on airplanes on transcontinental routes. more when there are delays.

Not on 737s. On transcon routes the aircraft are pressurized, air conditioned, and there is adequate toilet service for the duration of the flight. AND the passengers expect a flight of that duration when they board.

As for legalities, I don't know how well laws in general are enforced in India. Had this happened in the U.S., I would hope that the DOT would come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Quoting ec99 (Reply 24):

Also, the average low in Nagpur for the next week is 80+ degrees (average high is 111). It would amaze me if a APU could keep a plane cool in that heat.

Should be within the capability of the airplane. I've been on aircraft in much higher temps and humidity than that that were quite comfortable because the APU was running.
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ec99
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
Should be within the capability of the airplane. I've been on aircraft in much higher temps and humidity than that that were quite comfortable because the APU was running.

Just for my reference, is the APU more powerful than the air conditioning that runs when the plane is hooked up to power? I know I have sat on some sweltering planes on the ground when hooked up to ground power. While on the ground do the airlines not run the AC at full power for other reasons?
 
doug_or
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:53 pm

Quoting ec99 (Reply 26):
Just for my reference, is the APU more powerful than the air conditioning that runs when the plane is hooked up to power? I know I have sat on some sweltering planes on the ground when hooked up to ground power. While on the ground do the airlines not run the AC at full power for other reasons?

Ground power and ground air are two different things (aircraft air conditioning and pressurization works as one unit and requires air from either the engines or APU- electrciity won't do a thing). Not all ground air conditioning sources are created equal, some can keep up, some can't.
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DocLightning
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:58 pm

Quoting ec99 (Reply 26):

Just for my reference, is the APU more powerful than the air conditioning that runs when the plane is hooked up to power? I know I have sat on some sweltering planes on the ground when hooked up to ground power. While on the ground do the airlines not run the AC at full power for other reasons?

Ground power supplies electricity, but the air conditioning on the 737 is run by the APU. The 737 can have a ground A/C cart hooked up and not all of those are created equal, but almost any airliner made by Boeing or Airbus (or McD) can keep the cabin cool in hot conditions while on the tarmac. However, if the APU is inoperative, then a cabin will become unbearable even if it's pleasantly cool outside just from all the bodies crowding the interior.
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ec99
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):
Ground power supplies electricity, but the air conditioning on the 737 is run by the APU. The 737 can have a ground A/C cart hooked up and not all of those are created equal, but almost any airliner made by Boeing or Airbus (or McD) can keep the cabin cool in hot conditions while on the tarmac. However, if the APU is inoperative, then a cabin will become unbearable even if it's pleasantly cool outside just from all the bodies crowding the interior.

Got it. Thanks much for the info.
 
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litz
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Fuel-flow wise, how long can you run an APU?

(I know I've seen a DL 757 at an air show run the APU all day long, but it really doesn't take much fuel to get an airplane from Hartsfield to Dobbins ... and back ... so there was presumably a fair amount 'in the tank' to keep it going)
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:22 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 30):

Fuel-flow wise, how long can you run an APU?
http://aviation.stackexchange.com/qu...t-of-fuel-compared-to-a-jet-engine

The APU uses about 1/4 the fuel of the engines at idle. And about 1/40th the fuel of the engines at T/O power. So with full tanks, you can probably run the APU several days before you exhaust the fuel.
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doug_or
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 30):
Fuel-flow wise, how long can you run an APU?

If it were topped off? 45,000 lbs/250 lbs per hour = 1 week.

Of course it could have had much less than that, but 2,000 lbs would get you 8 hours and landing with that little gas would be an emergency.
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ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting doug_or (Reply 32):
If it were topped off? 45,000 lbs/250 lbs per hour = 1 week.

Of course it could have had much less than that, but 2,000 lbs would get you 8 hours and landing with that little gas would be an emergency.

How long can an APU run before it runs out of oil?
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danj555
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:22 pm

This would have blown up SO BAD in the US. Like primetime news, interviews, relief fund set up for the victims, class action law suits..... I could see that happen. ok we Americans take stuff too far.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Pax Forced To Spend Night On The Ground In Plane

Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:18 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
This is why I'm glad we finally got the 3-hour rule in the USA.

The three hour rule wouldn't have made any difference in this situation. If there's no one to work/park/offload a flight, then "rules" don't help. Back in my airliner days, we had a few emergency diversions to airports that didn't have pax service (think Northern Canada). In almost every case they were kept on the plane until a ferry flight could get there. Can't just let people run around on a ramp. I'm not even sure the 3 hour rule would apply in this situation.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):

This used to happen with some regularity in this country until finally Congress gave the airlines a reason to think that maybe this wasn't a good idea.

Except that it didn't. 3+ hour tarmac delays were exceedingly rare *before* they made the rule. The 3 hour rule was a knee jerk reaction to the B6 JFK debacle which was brought on by extreme weather/poor planning.
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