727LOVER
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TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:56 am

A friend sent me this today.

TPA will close 2 runways for an emergency concrete slab replacement project,

Starting on Monday, April 25, runways 1L-19R & 10-28 will be closed until May 9. This means the airport will have only one available runway.


http://notams.aim.faa.gov/notamSearch/nsapp.html#/results

TPA 04/081 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 RWY 01R/19L CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/082 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 RWY 10/28 CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/083 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY B BTN TWY C AND RWY 01R/19L CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/084 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY N BTN APCH END RWY 10 AND RWY 01R/19L CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/086 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY L BTN TWY J AND TWY N CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/087 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY S BTN TWY C AND RWY 01R/19L CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/088 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY R BTN TWY C AND RWY 01R/19L CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/090 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY P BTN TWY C AND TAXILANE E CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/093 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY D SOUTH OF TWY Q CLSD 1604251130-1605092300
  Closed TPA 04/085 Aerodrome 04/25/2016 1130 05/09/2016 2300 TWY C SOUTH OF TWY J CLSD 1604251130-1605092300



I can't find anything on the airport's website


But, the airport is also without the south taxiway bridge
TPA: Taxiway J (bridge) To Be Torn Down & Rebuilt (by western727 Feb 11 2015 in Civil Aviation)

So this means airlines in Airside A will have to taxi all the way to the north bridge, then taxi all the way down to 1L. A long taxi after landing on 19R


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ty97
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:22 am

Will TPA be able to support their standard schedule with only 1/3 runway capacity available?
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:23 am

More importantly, what does this mean for the traffic patterns? Will ATC institute holding patterns during peak arrival periods?
 
Q
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:45 am

John Wayne SNA, Buffalo BUF, Madison MSN and Reno RNO are the same one runway major traffic without any problem. I bet TPA will be fine.

Q
 
jetmatt777
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:08 am

If SNA and SAN can operate on one runway, TPA should be just fine. Might be a few more go arounds than usual during the busy periods as ATC tries to pack them tight but nothing unsafe or even worthy of en route holds or ground stops....
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
cbphoto
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:25 am

The logic that if one airport can handle traffic at normal rates with one runway, then every other airport should be able to doesn't really apply. The airspace around these single runway airports is generally set up differently then the bigger airports with multiple runways. I don't think TPA will see huge issues, but i'm sure delays will occur. Remember, LAX lost one of it's 4 runways last summer and delays upwards of 2-3 hours were common almost every day into LAX.
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
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atypical
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:53 am

I used to live in the area and the number of flights using a runway except 19R-1L (18R-36L) was so rare I can recall maybe 1 or two cases on 19L-1R (18L-36R), and I never saw airline use 10-28 (9-27).

Just did a check of Google Earth to check recent usage and see in 2014 1 departure, 1 landing and 3 waiting on 19R-1L, 19L-1R and 10-28 closed. All other dates indicate exclusive use of 19R-1L also. This is as I rember because thery loathed getting complaints at those times they used 19L-1R. Using 1 runway is in effect what they do already. There might be some complaints on the days where 19L-1R are used as departure and approach will go directly over S. Tampa instead of the Bay.

The real question is not TPA but what type of aircraft mistakes TPF instead of MCF next time. My money is on C-130 because they know it can land of a carrier in a pinch so just about any airport looks right if you are tired enough. Anyway, isn't the US overdue for a mistake any time now?
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:42 pm

TPA will be just fine with one runway. While I worked at the airport I can count on one hand how many times I've seen the crosswind runway get used by comercial aircraft, mostly when in use, it's used by GA aircraft because the 2 FBOs are next to it and pilots practicing touch and go. TPA has operated with one runway use only for short periods of time before and it was newer a problem, don't think a longer shutdown of 2 runways will be any more of challenge besides the longer ground taxi times for aircraft headed to terminals on the other side.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:05 pm

Periodically, one of the two major runways will be out of commission for a couple of days for whatever reason and their usually are no issues at all. This is just a little longer, but the outcome will be the same--no problem. The airport will get some complaints from some residents south of Kennedy if they use 1R since they will be flying overhead. Noise abatement keeps use of the that runway down for the mainline commercial jets when 1L is operating.

10-28 (9-27) is only busy with mainline traffic if we have a tropical storm, hurricane or high winds off the gulf.
 
bennett123
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:55 pm

Why do they have 3 runways?.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:14 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 9):

Planning ahead. And for this specific type of an event, if the runways need to be worked on with a single runway you would force airport shutdown for at least some parts of the day for repairs.TPA is run 24/7. Don't want to become another Gatwick with just one runway and bursting at the seams. The airport footprint is as big as its going to get. The urban sprawl and the industrial parks surrounding the airport will block the airport from getting bigger if needed in the future, unless they do a major redesign of the airport and the land to the right going toward Dale Mabry is bought out. Current terminal can support 2 more concourses, one to the north west and another smaller concourse on the east side. The current terminal when expanded can handle 25-30mil people per year from what I've heard and currently the airport gets about 19mil pax per year.

[Edited 2016-04-25 07:43:51]
 
727LOVER
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:01 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 9):
Why do they have 3 runways?.

Why does LHR have 2 runways?
Why does JFK have 4 runways?
Why does DTW have 6 runways?
Why does CLT have 4 runways?
Why does IAD have 4 runways?

Not sure I understand the question.


Now for a little history...the terminal used to be in the southeastern corner of the present overall field. It was surrounded by 2 intersecting runways, 9-27 & 18-36. In 1963 18R-36L was opened way on the other side of the field.

I guess even back in the 50's, they knew they would build something on the present day terminal site.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060209083240/http://oldterminals.topcities.com/tampa%20aerial%201968.jpg
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
rajincajun01
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:43 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 9):

TPA has a large amount of GA traffic on top of their commercial traffic. Tampa holds a lot of events that bring in even more traffic (Super Bowls, NCAA Championships, etc).
A319 A320 A321 A332 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 L1011 MD80 SF340 AvGeek Superstore
 
highflier92660
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:46 pm

With runway 1R-19L at 8,300 feet perhaps the Lufthansa A330-300 might have a small gross weight takeoff restriction during the closure of KTPA main runway.

With the near two billion dollar improvements being made to Tampa airport, I wonder why a 1R-19L runway extension to 11,000 feet isn't at least in the Master plan? There is plenty of airport property north toward Hillsborough Ave.
 
727LOVER
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:14 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 13):
Lufthansa A330-300

Actually,...it's an A340-300

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TVNWZ
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 9):
Why do they have 3 runways?.

One is a crosswind runway. Light GA aircraft use it when winds are calm sometimes. Otherwise it is only used for larger aircraft when the winds are very strong out of the east or west. And that usually is during tropical storms, hurricanes or extremely windy days where the winds are coming out of the east or west.

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 13):
With runway 1R-19L at 8,300 feet perhaps the Lufthansa A330-300 might have a small gross weight takeoff restriction during the closure of KTPA main runway.

It has not been an issue up to this point.

[Edited 2016-04-25 11:47:44]
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:23 pm

Quoting rajincajun01 (Reply 12):

I forgot about all the special event GA traffic. They usually close the crosswind runway for extra ramp space so they can park all the corporate jets. It's unbelievable how much traffic a super bowl brings in. At PIE they do the same thing, runway 6/27 usually gets closed every year for the Indy Car race when all the teams fly in.
 
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atypical
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:35 pm

I knew I'd use this someday...

1R-19L extension is fully dependent on the north terminal. FAA changes make the extension as planned impossible without relocating Hillsborough (full clear zone). Plans are to only allow this runway to be used with departures to and landings from the north. No southern operations were intended.

A third parallel runway appears to be next, but not anticipated within 20 years. It will be built about 500 feet west of 1L-19R with a taxiway in between. This plan may need to be somewhat modified for the new full clear zone. The question being since it shares the current runways clear zone does it need to introduce a new zone that differs. This runway would support full operations

Prior to 1972 the Main terminal was located where Hawker/Beechcraft and Landmark are now. Prior to that the terminal was located due north. The remaining tarmac is just to the south of PEMCO hanger diagonal to the airport current layout. There was also a diagonal runway 14-32.

In the early 60s I believe was a revolution in airport design. Prior to that there was no parallel runway planning and construction and airports were designed for at least 3 runways, 2 perpendicular and 1 diagonal. The larger the airport the more directions. Most notable in Greater Southwest International (GSW) and the original ORD, which was supposed to basically be a pinwheel. In the late 50s or early 60s that changed. Both Dallas Love (DAL) and TPA are early examples. Makes me wonder when FLL and MIA also got their parallels.

Although I love TPA it has one huge flaw. The flaw's mitigation is that TPA is rarely used for connections and primarily O&D. Like JFK and LAX (both I hate) if you change airlines you generally have to break security and rescreen. As long as TPA has so traffic into connections that isn't an issue. It is one of those airports I think should never become a hub because as nice as it is it would be terrible to attempt to hub which would hurt its reputation.
 
n92r03
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 13):
With runway 1R-19L at 8,300 feet perhaps the Lufthansa A330-300 might have a small gross weight takeoff restriction during the closure of KTPA main runway.

1R/19L is not the "main" runway...it is the shorter of the two parallels, however it is preferred by GA and in a southerly flow, WN, UA, NK and F9.

This construction will not be an issue.
 
graham697
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 7):
I used to live in the area and the number of flights using a runway except 19R-1L (18R-36L) was so rare I can recall maybe 1 or two cases on 19L-1R (18L-36R), and I never saw airline use 10-28 (9-27).

Born and raised in Tampa Bay and now a frequent flyer to TPA. 19L-1R is in regular use, mostly GA, WN and B6 from my observation. 10-28 is pretty much all GA except when my AA A319 from DCA landed on it a couple of months ago late at night. I absolutely LOVED that approach, but can guess the neighborhoods of West Tampa didn't appreciate it.
 
Beatyair
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:54 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
Why does LHR have 2 runways?

Bad planning
 
727LOVER
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:07 pm

#1

Quoting atypical (Reply 6):
I used to live in the area and the number of flights using a runway except 19R-1L (18R-36L) was so rare I can recall maybe 1 or two cases on 19L-1R (18L-36R), and I never saw airline use 10-28 (9-27).

#2

Quoting graham697 (Reply 19):
Born and raised in Tampa Bay and now a frequent flyer to TPA. 19L-1R is in regular use, mostly GA, WN and B6 from my observation. 10-28 is pretty much all GA

#2 is absolutely correct.
Although I'd add UA & NK to that list.

TPA.... All Ops On Runway 10! (by 727LOVER Oct 8 2011 in Civil Aviation)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nAz-sxeLEA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrDvhLV_oZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRCWGEAyj8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8IkhMxG2ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etdP8fAu0Wc



Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 16):
At PIE they do the same thing, runway 6/27 usually gets closed every year for the Indy Car race when all the teams fly in.

Is 6-27 still open? Google maps image there are XXXs all over it & G4 parked on it.

[Edited 2016-04-25 14:08:47]
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting atypical (Reply 17):
A third parallel runway appears to be next, but not anticipated within 20 years. It will be built about 500 feet west of 1L-19R with a taxiway in between. This plan may need to be somewhat modified for the new full clear zone. The question being since it shares the current runways clear zone does it need to introduce a new zone that differs. This runway would support full operations

Complete waste of money. Current facilities are good today and waaaay into the future. But, every airport wants to build monuments to themselves. And TPA is doing that now with a Billion dollar redo with most of the money going to a tram to get to a new rental car garage. Complete waste.
 
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usxguy
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:47 pm

PIE's 6/27 was closed months ago.
xx
 
graham697
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 22):
And TPA is doing that now with a Billion dollar redo with most of the money going to a tram to get to a new rental car garage. Complete waste.

While I am not happy about the rental car move from the main terminal, I understand why they are doing it. The central terminal area can get very congested during the high season and, frankly, the interior is dated for a world class airport. I think it is financially prudent for the Board to make this investment now while interest rates are low and keep Tampa one of the world's best.
 
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atypical
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:18 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 22):
Complete waste of money. Current facilities are good today and waaaay into the future. But, every airport wants to build monuments to themselves. And TPA is doing that now with a Billion dollar redo with most of the money going to a tram to get to a new rental car garage. Complete waste.

Please note I did say that runway was not anticipated within the next 20 years so aside from the planning (which is required) they are not going to spend any money until it is needed.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 21):
#2 is absolutely correct.

Since you felt it was important to put two statements a demonstration of something and then to call only one of those correct, but didn't explain why. Are you saying I saw something else or that I am exaggerating? I am wondering why you thought my personal observation is somehow not correct.
 
727LOVER
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:39 am

Guys,...my sincerest apologies......

A friend just texted me and alerted me that I had made a great error.

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Starting on Monday, April 25, runways 1L-19R & 10-28 will be closed until May 9.
1R-19L is closed...NOT 1L-19R

The runway on the west side of the field ! 11,000 ft is open, the 2 intersecting runways are closed




Some may have scratched their head when I said:

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
So this means airlines in Airside A will have to taxi all the way to the north bridge, then taxi all the way down to 1L. A long taxi after landing on 19R
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
727LOVER
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:48 am

Quoting atypical (Reply 25):
Since you felt it was important to put two statements a demonstration of something and then to call only one of those correct, but didn't explain why. Are you saying I saw something else or that I am exaggerating? I am wondering why you thought my personal observation is somehow not correct.

I have had an association with TPA for 40 years. I lived right next to the airport for 15 years, passing by it just about every single day. If you saw what you saw, then fine. But if you are presenting it as fact, then I kindly disagree.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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atypical
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:44 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 27):
I have had an association with TPA for 40 years. I lived right next to the airport for 15 years, passing by it just about every single day. If you saw what you saw, then fine. But if you are presenting it as fact, then I kindly disagree.

No, I thought I was clear it was my observations. I wouldn't use what I have seen in this kind of manner as fact. It is measured in any case over a long period of time to arrive as something conclusive. If I saw a UFO, that still may not be a fact no matter how sure I am. I think I read in the Master Plan that airline use for 10-28 was something on the order of 0.7% of all airline use and I am sure I could never give anywhere near that ans an obvervable measurement. (Note here I am saying "I think" because I am coming from memory).

FYI I graduated SPJC and USF and I left the area in 2000 for the other Bay Area. My old boss is in Safety Harbor. You may have herad of GTEDS (GTE Data Services), we a great deal of fun with them. My sister lives in Wesley Chapel so I get back every once in a while.
 
qcpilotxf
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:40 am

It has definitely made for some interesting taxis here at work. It has taken some of my aircraft 10+ minutes to make it all the way around the airport during the busy hours.

As for airlines usage on RW10, It happens more than you would think. Seeing that I spend most of my time here though its easy to just to go unnoticed when aircraft are on 10, especially when J is open
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:19 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 21):
Quoting usxguy (Reply 23):

Thank you for that info, did not know they closed 6/27 at PIE. It's been about a year since last time I drove by. Google Earth image of the airport was taken this month, glad to see the old Avantair hanger is getting used. As for the new rental facility at TPA, everyone I talk to wishes it would stay where it is. I know they are trying to solve the congestion problem, but the current setup is so convenient.
 
qcpilotxf
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:25 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 30):
I know they are trying to solve the congestion problem, but the current setup is so convenient.

Airside D would help.... During the winter its impossible to find an extra gate if we need one
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:45 pm

[/quote]

Quoting graham697 (Reply 24):
While I am not happy about the rental car move from the main terminal, I understand why they are doing it. The central terminal area can get very congested during the high season and, frankly, the interior is dated for a world class airport. I think it is financially prudent for the Board to make this investment now while interest rates are low and keep Tampa one of the world's best.

I have no issue with remodeling the main terminal, but most of the Billion will go to the tram for the rental car garage. A Billion $$ is a tad much for what some communities pay for a big, complete terminal. I think it is a complete and utter waste of money, but will be a monument to the airport director who seems to like monuments.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:49 pm

Quoting qcpilotxf (Reply 31):

Do you have any info on what is inside the concourse B building and if its ever going to be a functional for pax use again? Was it ever a functioning pax concourse and if it was when and why did it close?
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:18 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 33):
Do you have any info on what is inside the concourse B building and if its ever going to be a functional for pax use again? Was it ever a functioning pax concourse and if it was when and why did it close?

There is no concourse B building. It was torn down. WN built a baggage operation adjacent to their concourse C that took up much of the old concourse B footprint. B housed Eastern and when it went belly up it closed and was eventually torn down for the WN expansion.
 
qcpilotxf
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RE: TPA Emergency Runway Closures

Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 33):
Do you have any info on what is inside the concourse B building and if its ever going to be a functional for pax use again? Was it ever a functioning pax concourse and if it was when and why did it close?

The building that is where B former stood is the A side Baggage Make-Up, It was never an actual airside, from what i was told, it was built when A was built to optimise space inside the terminal, and because the airside was so far away from the main terminal

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