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sptv
Topic Author
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 5:21 am

AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:22 am

First AS pulls out of the LAX-YVR market completely, after being a dominant carrier on the route for years. Now AA, a relatively new entry into the market with two daily E75 flights is reducing to one flight starting in August. AA has a great product on this route (in spite of the Eagles Nest mess on the LAX side). I fly RT on this route most weeks throughout the year. The planes couldn't be any more full. As an Exec Platinum member, I can't help but voice my disappointment and frustration. The only way I will be able to stick with Aadvantage will be to fly through Seattle on AS, or go with codeshare partner Westjet (who doesn't offer a premium product). Neither is viable for someone who spends as much time flying and in airports as I do. So I guess it's off to Delta or Air Canada. Too bad Airline loyalty doesn't work both ways.
 
robt760
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:08 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 6:18 am

Is there mention somewhere of this being a permanent reduction, or just a seasonal thing?
 
rta
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 8:53 am

Quoting sptv (Thread starter):
The planes couldn't be any more full.

As many will tell you on this site, load factor doesn't indicate yield/profitability.
 
chrisp390
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 8:58 am

Shocked too, I fly this route often and there sure is strong premium demand and good loads on this route. Very frustrating.
 
AAplat4life
Posts: 322
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 10:51 am

AA seems to have trouble in the YVR market. It could not make ORD-YVR work. To fly on AA to YVR, passengers have to connect through PHX or DFW.
 
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mercure1
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 1:48 pm

Quoting sptv (Thread starter):
Too bad Airline loyalty doesn't work both ways.

 

Airlines are business. Either a route makes money, or it does not.
mercure f-wtcc
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1075
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 3:57 pm

Maybe yields on the route aren't as great overall as your anecdotal flight experiences would suggest?

In addition to the route cuts you mentioned, UA has never (?) offered more than RJ service between the two cities either. Seems like if the route really were a gold mine, airlines would be adding flights and/or upgauging aircraft.

This is just speculation, but Vancouver used to be the site of a lot of U.S. TV and movie production because of lower costs. As more states create tax incentives to promote filming, I wonder if enough filming hasn't returned domestically that it's putting a dent in LAX-YVR entertainment-oriented traffic?
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
NickLAX
Posts: 262
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 4:37 pm

I've switched to flying Westjet/WS - used to fly AC before I defected to OneWorld. They also cover SNA to YVR and even though you earn AAdvantage miles they are not elite earning - for the short segment length compared to most of my other long haul it's not a huge deal for me at least. Those talking on premium cabins: Even when I flew AC every other week LAX-YVR (going back 4 years ago) around half of the Embraer 175 cabin was from talking to those next to me was film industry where those were contractual to be in First/Biz. The rest like me upgraded with no issues. So premium wasn't always full even in Vancouver/BC film heyday.

PS: For AC before it went to Rouge and back: There was the occasional A320 on this route; seasonal peak and normally one departure, (rare to have two) per day, rest were all E175's



[Edited 2016-05-02 09:38:48]
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 760
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 4:46 pm

How do you define "strong premium demand"? The only definition that means anything to airlines is "a lot of people willing to spend a lot of money". That's
what premium demand truly is. If the lfights are full but fares are low (I'd say, shot in the dark here, less than $150-$200 each way),
then it's not premium and it most likely isn't as good for the airline as you might otherwise think.

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 3):
Shocked too, I fly this route often and there sure is strong premium demand and good loads on this route. Very frustrating.
 
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yellowtail
Posts: 3938
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 4:50 pm

It is flown by RAH? Maybe something to do with their bankruptcy?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
dc10lover
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 5:03 pm

G4 BLI - LAX is a strong market still.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
sptv
Topic Author
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 5:36 pm

The flight is flown by Compass on an E175.

Compass also flies the route for Delta, also on E175s.

Seems to me you're either in the market or you're not. I'm not sure having one flight a day is a way for any airline to establish itself in a market. Especially when the one remaining flight is a mid-day flight that competes directly with AC, which is now the dominant player on the route by a long-shot.
 
Jayce
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 5:49 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 6):
As more states create tax incentives to promote filming, I wonder if enough filming hasn't returned domestically that it's putting a dent in LAX-YVR entertainment-oriented traffic?

The BC film industry is actually doing quite well as of late, largely thanks to the low Canadian dollar.

Vancity Buzz article

WestJet is also adding a third daily flight between the two cities. Though loads aren't a good indication of profitability, the times I've flown it they're generally full. As is Orange County and I expect San Diego to be the same.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
alasizon
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 5:51 pm

Canada markets simply aren't what they used to be, AA is adjusting to account for better opportunities for the same frame with a higher yield.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
multimark
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 7:42 pm

Sounds like the two Canadian carriers are so dominant and invested in this market that the US carriers can't establish a foothold. With TV and film production booming in Vancouver, it is a bit surprising there isn't room for a US carrier though.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 9:28 pm

Quoting NickLAX (Reply 7):
PS: For AC before it went to Rouge and back: There was the occasional A320 on this route; seasonal peak and normally one departure, (rare to have two) per day, rest were all E175's

AC has never operated the E175s out west, they would have been E190s...
 
joeljack
Posts: 645
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 9:47 pm

I just checked out United on this route, oneway: LAX-YVR. Fares a week out are just over $100 each way and some are only $80 each way. This would include the taxes! This is crazy for a 1,000 mile long route.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Mon May 02, 2016 11:33 pm

Quoting multimark (Reply 14):
Sounds like the two Canadian carriers are so dominant and invested in this market that the US carriers can't establish a foothold. With TV and film production booming in Vancouver, it is a bit surprising there isn't room for a US carrier though.

There is a U.S. carrier. Delta (operated on E75s by Compass as Delta Connection) offers 2x daily. Delta also codeshares on the WS flights.
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 1:57 am

First world problems. Just fly UA. For AC the route is a low priority, and has been for long.
The traffic is healthy but really low yealding. Even more so now that the tourists are coming mainly for the cheap Canadian dollar so they want to save every penny.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 4:17 am

Pretty much no Canadian can afford to own a house in Vancouver anymore so Canadian's are leaving it in droves with their numbers being replaced with Chinese (or Chinese-owned vacant houses). Those that can afford to live there spend so much of their income on mortgage/rent payments that they don't have much left for things like trips to LA. Quite sad really.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 4:31 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 18):

I though AC was moving this route back to mainline, thus investing in the route again?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26557
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 6:59 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 18):
For AC the route is a low priority, and has been for long.

That isn't true. AC has maintained a strong presence on it for years.

Quoting fly2yyz (Reply 20):

I though AC was moving this route back to mainline, thus investing in the route again?

Not only going back to mainline, but also pushing their YVR hub for connections.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
YLWbased
Posts: 905
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:09 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 7:05 am

Compare to this, the total absent of an OW carrier on the YVR-SFO route annoys me even more, the fact it cost 30,000 miles to redeem a oneway YVR-SFO flight via SEA is ridiculous!

YLWbased

[Edited 2016-05-03 00:20:24]
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 7:09 am

AA used to be the carrier all the Hollywood studios had contracts with. Maybe the money isn't there any more and people are flying the cheapest tickets possible.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26557
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 7:32 am

One point - a lot of US-Canada traffic originates in Canada. Canadians tend to fly AC and WS.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 23):
AA used to be the carrier all the Hollywood studios had contracts with. Maybe the money isn't there any more and people are flying the cheapest tickets possible.

Yet, they didn't fly LAX-YVR at all until recently. AC does most of the studio business to YVR.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sptv
Topic Author
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 5:21 am

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 1:10 pm

AS used to have 4 daily flights on this route and had the majority of the Hollywood business. AS701 at 9pm on a Sunday night often had the whole first class cabin filled with actors, directors and producers. AS drew back their service about 18 months ago, which is when AA started their service on the route. AA has not attracted a big Hollywood crowd, anecdotally due to the inconvenience of having to bus to and from the American Eagle terminal at LAX. Now, come June, AS is pulling out of the route completely, and AA is drawing back to one flight in Aug.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

RE: AA Reducing LAX-YVR

Tue May 03, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 17):

Advance fares ex-taxes have been in the mid $70 range, however AC fares have risen dramatically since the route was converted back to high cost mainline in recent days.

It says a lot when Alaska has a system belf of about 65%, they operated YVR-LAX last summer at 90% and they cancelled the route. They didn't cancel the route because it was profitable.

AC may be capturing market share on the route, but consider that Air Canada's overall first quarter operating profit margin was under 2%, when interest expense is taken into consideration. On the same basis, American's margin was 11.6%.

It's a good example of AC "winning a battle, but losing the war".

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