A380 Could Work At Iberia And Aer Lingus: Walsh

vv701 · Mon May 02, 2016 1:18 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 99):
That's for sure. But I am sure that some people would become nervous if they have purchased a BA ticket and, waiting at the gate, suddenly see a huge IB or EI Jet.

There were no reports of this in the period between 1 October and 31 December 2004 when BA wet leased an IB 320 to operate both of the daily BA455/64 and B465/62 rotations to MAD out of LHR T5. A total of 27 different IB 320s all in full IB livery with no BA identification operated these flights. And this was before BA and IB came together when IAG was formed.

In the same period BA also wet leased a Titan Airways 733 (G-ZAPM) between 21 August and 15 November.

Since the start of the current Summer Timetable BA has had two Jet Time 737-7s in full Jet Time livery on wet lease. Their schedules alternate. One operates LHR-GLA-LHR (BA1474/79), LHR-CPH-LHR (BA816/17) and then LHR-CPH (BA822). The other operates CPH-LHR (BA811), LHR-EDI-LHR (BA1438/43), LHR-ABZ-LHR (BA1312/13) and LHR-GLA-LHR (BA1486/93). Again I have seen no adverse reports from passengers. These two aircraft, OY-JTT and 'TY, will be returned to Jet Time at the end of October

Polot · Mon May 02, 2016 1:26 pm

Quoting jambrain (Reply 96):
If IAG want flights to 3 or 4 new cities in US not currently served on IAG metal, an option that doesn't require more LHR slots is to run a wide-body shuttle to DUB & fly on-bound to US on 3 or 4 A321s from DUB. (I admit the shuttle is more likely to be 2 x A330NEO then a single A380)

I honestly don't see many unique cities from DUB. DUB will there to help handle European connections, allowing BA to better optimize their short haul network to free up slots for long haul use. It will always be preferable to IAG to open up new cities from LHR rather than DUB- the former will almost always be a larger market from the US while also always being a larger hub (lets not forget that EI, in the grand scheme of things, is a rather small airline that doesn't even have 50 planes). EI just has the early advantage right now as they have the leased 757s while the smallest plane BA can use is the 788 (ignoring the 2 A318s which are a very niche operation)- but that could change if BA gets the A321LR.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 98):
You have to factor in the distance. Like I said the A380 is volume limited but that volume is not relevant if by filling it you can't make it to your destination. If volume was that significant the A346 would have out-sold the 77W. There are a lot of factors that go into planning a mission.

Yes, but I was avoiding distance because of the many many variables that start to get involved (how long is the flight, how heavy is the cargo, payload-ranges etc). Also the 77W has greater cargo volume than the A346 so I'm not exactly sure what your point with that was suppose to mean.

I do agree that the A380's cargo capabilities might be understated by some, but I would be careful in comparisons with the 77W which is truly a cargo monster (as will be the A350-1000).

N14AZ · Mon May 02, 2016 1:39 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 100):
There were no reports of this in the period between 1 October and 31 December 2004 when BA wet leased an IB 320 to operate both of the daily BA455/64 and B465/62 rotations to MAD out of LHR T5. A total of 27 different IB 320s all in full IB livery with no BA identification operated these flights. And this was before BA and IB came together when IAG was formed.

In the same period BA also wet leased a Titan Airways 733 (G-ZAPM) between 21 August and 15 November.

Since the start of the current Summer Timetable BA has had two Jet Time 737-7s in full Jet Time livery on wet lease. Their schedules alternate. One operates LHR-GLA-LHR (BA1474/79), LHR-CPH-LHR (BA816/17) and then LHR-CPH (BA822). The other operates CPH-LHR (BA811), LHR-EDI-LHR (BA1438/43), LHR-ABZ-LHR (BA1312/13) and LHR-GLA-LHR (BA1486/93). Again I have seen no adverse reports from passengers. These two aircraft, OY-JTT and 'TY, will be returned to Jet Time at the end of October

OK, so British people seem to be more relaxed about this issue.

Or, that's because the weather in London is so bad, that people cannot even recognize the aircraft livery when sitting at the gate and waiting for boarding. That's why there were no reports in this repsect.

Just kidding, to be serious: of course, it will not make People avoid BA, that's why I wrote:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 99):
Well, of course, it's not that the earth would stop turning and people after being informed later during the flight would accept it.

airbazar · Mon May 02, 2016 5:03 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 99):

That's for sure. But I am sure that some people would become nervous if they have purchased a BA ticket and, waiting at the gate, suddenly see a huge IB or EI Jet.

That's exactly what happens when airline A codeshares with airline B but that hasn't stopped airlines from code-sharing with eachother. So clearly being surprised by finding a different airline at the gate than the one you bought your ticket from, shouldn't happen anymore.
For example, you can buy a ticket on B6 for JFK-DXB. Guess what plane you're going to find at the gate?

skipness1E · Mon May 02, 2016 7:45 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 99):

That's for sure. But I am sure that some people would become nervous if they have purchased a BA ticket and, waiting at the gate, suddenly see a huge IB or EI Jet. Well, of course, it's not that the earth would stop turning and people after being informed later during the flight would accept it.

This happens every day, indeed LHR-MAD on IB operates with BA500 flight numbers rather than in the higher codeshare range.

[Edited 2016-05-02 12:45:47]

VS4ever · Tue May 03, 2016 4:58 am

105 posts (including mine) and still not a mock up of an IB/EI 380 in this thread. #shocking...

Braybuddy · Tue May 03, 2016 5:52 am

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 105):

105 posts (including mine) and still not a mock up of an IB/EI 380 in this thread.

Braybuddy · Tue May 03, 2016 1:29 pm

Or, more appropriately:

eicvd · Tue May 03, 2016 1:33 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 106):

Good one, someone really needs to get over his obsession that 'IAG is bad for EI'

N14AZ · Wed May 04, 2016 7:58 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 107):
Or, more appropriately:

Quoting EICVD (Reply 108):

Found another Rendering / model

Source (same story as the Initial FG article, just in German language): http://www.aerotelegraph.com/iag-auc...eria-koennten-airbus-a380-bekommen

VS4ever · Wed May 04, 2016 1:06 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 107):
Or, more appropriately:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 109):
Found another Rendering / model

Thank you guys, while not talked about much in this thread. I would love to see this turn up at BOS for DUB-BOS, yet more likely would go to JFK, but that would be one lovely looking aircraft.

offloaded · Wed May 04, 2016 1:10 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 69):
London customers will simply not want to factor in a transit in Dublin for what is effectively a short transatlantic flight

Except for the carrot of US pre-clearance. We've been using EI a bit lately as their summer timetable allows us some decent connex to the US from FAO, and people love that part of it. The last pax I had took less than 10 mins to clear US Immigration and Customs.

shamrock604 · Wed May 04, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 110):
Thank you guys, while not talked about much in this thread. I would love to see this turn up at BOS for DUB-BOS, yet more likely would go to JFK, but that would be one lovely looking aircraft.

If there's one route an EI 380 (wow.... even typing that got me giddy) would make sense on, it's DUB-BOS in summer.

If the talk on the Irish thread is to be believed, EI are chasing away traffic with fare levels on BOS, such is demand.

Wont as I am to discuss the feasibility of seeing the Shamrock adorning an A380, I'm more inclined to believe this is merely WW's negotiations with Airbus using the media.

One can hope, I suppose

Braybuddy · Sat May 07, 2016 9:08 pm

Quoting EICVD (Reply 108):
Good one, someone really needs to get over his obsession that 'IAG is bad for EI'

No, just bad for the country.

tonystan · Sat May 07, 2016 9:36 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 113):

A lumbering tax absorbing dinosaur is the only thing that's bad for the country. The IAG takeover is good for business and the economy. It'll perhaps be bad for employment in the short term but we will see.

Braybuddy · Sat May 07, 2016 9:46 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 114):
A lumbering tax absorbing dinosaur is the only thing that's bad for the country. The IAG takeover is good for business and the economy.

The old Aer Lingus was actually making a profit and contributing to the national exchequer, not pumping-up the balance sheet of a multinational, as it is now

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/24/aer-lingus-profits-soar-by-18-percent

tonystan · Sat May 07, 2016 10:03 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 115):

Hmmm I have a long term memory of Aer Lingus. Watched my mum and dad suffer significant cuts during the early 90s in an attempt to rationalise. By 99 when I came along I joined an airline which on the outside seemed to be benefitting from the previous rationalisation only to then suffer and drag down the taxpayer post 9/11. It was at that point I jumped but maintained an active interest and close association with many of my old colleagues.

WW came along but even after much change to the airline we see now whenever a downturn occurred the economic difficulties to the airline where unrealistic and unsustainable. Things have been better in recent years but in this current market and indeed the future there is no way it could have stood alone unless it became a more regional feeder, the world is simply too volatile to allow a small operation such as Aer lingus's at the time to coast through.

This take over by IAG although not my preferred grouping (only because I work within IAG and know first hand exactly how ruthless and nasty they can be and fear the EI brand will simply become another soulless, functional entity with demoralised employees) but it will be the best thing for the airline and business links for Ireland aswell development of Irish airports most notably Dublin. And sure that's probably the best thing for the majority in the long run.

Of course this is all my opinion.

Braybuddy · Sat May 07, 2016 10:07 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 116):
Things have been better in recent years but in this current market and indeed the future there is no way it could have stood alone

Absolute rubbish. If Aer Lingus -- or any other company -- could survive (and prosper), after the worst economic collapse in the country's history, as it did, it could survive almost anything.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 116):
(only because I work within IAG

'Nuff said . . .

321neo · Sat May 07, 2016 10:09 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 115):
The old Aer Lingus was actually making a profit and contributing to the national exchequer

Making profits doesn't necessarily mean that dividends were being paid. The airline made losses for years post global financial crisis. Have you any dividend statistics to back up your claim about the contributions to the exchequer? The sale of the company gave €300m to the exchequer and also depoliticised the entity.

The integration of EI into OneWorld/Avios/Transatlantic Joint Venture are all being worked on behind the scenes, however we have already seen the benefits of being part of a larger airline group with 2 A330-200 aircraft on order for Iberia being switched to A330-300s for EI for delivery in Autumn 2016 - at prices and such early delivery slots which the standalone EI would simply not have been able to obtain.

The potential use of the A380 at EI is just another opportunity which IAG membership has opened up for the airline.

[Edited 2016-05-07 15:10:58]

dcajet · Sat May 07, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 29):
Can EZE handle the A380 ?

Yes it can. Position 11/12 at Terminal B.

Braybuddy · Sat May 07, 2016 10:15 pm

Quoting 321neo (Reply 118):
The airline made losses for years post global financial crisis.

What airline didn't?

Quoting 321neo (Reply 118):
Have you any dividend statistics to back up your claim about the contributions to the exchequer?

Have you any statistics to prove that it was actually costing the Irish taxpayer?

Quoting 321neo (Reply 118):
The potential use of the A380 at EI is just another opportunity which IAG membership has opened up for the airline.

Dream on . . .

OA260 · Sat May 07, 2016 11:09 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 95):
Can you please forget the idea of an A380 on LHR-DUB, it beggars belief!

Wont happen only time it would is similar to when EI used to put the B747 on the SNN and DUB - LHR at Christmas and other really peak holiday periods as one off exceptions where they needed to cope with demand. This will only happen if there is an A380 sitting around not being used for 5-6 hours.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 113):
No, just bad for the country.

IAG takeover is actually great for the country. It also has opened lots of new avenues and relationships for the airline.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 117):
Absolute rubbish. If Aer Lingus -- or any other company -- could survive (and prosper), after the worst economic collapse in the country's history, as it did, it could survive almost anything.

Surviving and just getting by without thinking out of the box and innovating is an old Irish attitude dying out thankfully

State interference and playing airlines has no room in a modern society.

Being part of a larger group with more options for travellers and getting back into Oneworld is a win win . A bit like being part of the Euro club where it is great to be able to spend the same currency in 18 other countries

Braybuddy · Sat May 07, 2016 11:28 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 121):
IAG takeover is actually great for the country.

I'd prefer if the profits were being returned to the Irish exchequer, not some mediocre mutltinational based in Madrid . . .

Quoting OA260 (Reply 121):
Surviving and just getting by without thinking out of the box and innovating is an old Irish attitude dying out thankfully State interference and playing airlines has no room in a modern society.

The old Aer Lingus was actually making an operating profit before it was sold:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...-operating-profit-to-iag-1.2411294

Surprising the lack of national pride in 2016, one hundred years after our fight for independence

Eagleboy · Sat May 07, 2016 11:37 pm

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 105):
105 posts (including mine) and still not a mock up of an IB/EI 380 in this thread. #shocking...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tearbringer/2093651066/in/photolist-4c1vwb

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 122):
Surprising the lack of national pride in 2016, one hundred years after our fight for independence

Am pretty such the Irish War of Independence was Jan 1919-Dec 1921..............

[Edited 2016-05-07 16:42:50]

Braybuddy · Sat May 07, 2016 11:47 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 123):
Am pretty such the Irish War of Independence was Jan 1919-Dec 1921

Where have you been the last couple of months????????????????

caoimhin · Sun May 08, 2016 12:00 am

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 123):
Am pretty such the Irish War of Independence was Jan 1919-Dec 1921..............

Mate, leave this one be.

It's been 100 years since the Easter Rising.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 121):
IAG takeover is actually great for the country. It also has opened lots of new avenues and relationships for the airline.

I agree, however, tony's point seems to suggest that EI has been, for want of a better word, colonised by a foreign corporation. Conceptually, that's true. But factually, I haven't seen many downsides to that arrangement. It's been fruitful so far.

[Edited 2016-05-07 17:00:47]

Braybuddy · Sun May 08, 2016 12:02 am

Quoting caoimhin (Reply 125):
It's been fruitful so far.

Oh really? Pity about the A350s though . . .

caoimhin · Sun May 08, 2016 12:20 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 126):

Could you explain a bit more? Excuse my misunderstanding. I knew that prior to the new arrangement, AerCap was to lease 9 A350s to EI. Have some of those been sent to IB?

On the whole, EI gets access to a much larger network of resources. It had underperformed in recent years, and this new structure does offer a way to overcome some of the challenges that had contained its growth.

MrHMSH · Sun May 08, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 126):
Oh really? Pity about the A350s though . . .

What's happening to them? I thought IAG essentially reaffirmed the orders for the A350 when they decided not to go for A330neos.

I get that you hate IAG/British Airways, but EI are part of a strong group now, and are expanding to new routes, while having a wealth of one-stop destinations via MAD and LHR, just as EI open up routes going West from the regions of the UK and with a likely A321neo purchase they open up smaller cities in the USA.

I also think that caring about nationalism shouldn't be EI's priority, they serve Ireland fairly well, and they make money. Those are the important things.

OA260 · Sun May 08, 2016 9:28 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 122):
I'd prefer if the profits were being returned to the Irish exchequer, not some mediocre mutltinational based in Madrid . .

In another European (EU) country. The club that you claim to be at one with and part of. Id prefer the Irish government sort out Irish Water and the roll out of fibre broadband to the whole country which would benefit the economy a lot more for business who are suffering from lack of access. Something the Irish government have screwed up yet again....

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 122):
Surprising the lack of national pride in 2016, one hundred years after our fight for independence

But you are European now

You cant have it both ways. Its all very ironic.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 126):
Oh really? Pity about the A350s though . . .

Do you have the source that confirms that with a link?

tonystan · Sun May 08, 2016 12:51 pm

Bray buddy,

The Easter rising occurred in 1916. The war for Independence took place between 1919 and 1921. If you wish to lecture on the lack of pride in Ireland at least get your very basic history right. I'd also suggest brushing up on your economics and understand exactly how successful businesses operate and safeguard against economic turmoil. A few periods of prosperity does not result in permanent sustainability and nor does downsizing and cutting every time things go into the red.

And as for my connection with IAG, Although I am critical of the group, it's also the best thing for Aer Lingus in the long run. And FYI, A significant amount of the profits of IAG will be placed into the bowels if the Irish exchequer each year, not just the profits of EI but those of the entire grouping. There is also very strong rumour floating around that IAG may in fact be relocating to a certain tax-kind Emerald Isle so in effect making the organisation based in this country.

Eagleboy · Sun May 08, 2016 1:42 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 126):
Oh really? Pity about the A350s though . . .

Quoting OA260 (Reply 129):
But you are European now You cant have it both ways. Its all very ironic.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 129):
Do you have the source that confirms that with a link?

BrayBuddy is 100% convinced that IAG are going to 'steal' the EI A350 orders. If they do, they do...thats business.
Personally I will take fleet expansion with A330neo over fleet stagnation with A350's.
However officially EI are still in line to receive MSN 197 as their first A350. But Braybuddy doesnt like facts.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 122):
Surprising the lack of national pride in 2016, one hundred years after our fight for independence

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 124):
Where have you been the last couple of months

Quoting caoimhin (Reply 125):
Mate, leave this one be. It's been 100 years since the Easter Rising.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 130):
The Easter rising occurred in 1916. The war for Independence took place between 1919 and 1921.

I'm well aware of the importance of 1916 in the history of Ireland, it was in many ways the spark that reignited the smouldering flame of independence. The Rising was not widely supported at the time howrver the actions of the British changed public opinion towards resentment towards "the occupying army" This mood created the atmosphere for the commencement of the Anglo-Irish War of 1919-21.

Ncfc99 · Sun May 08, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 98):
Quoting Polot (Reply 84):

Even with 450 seats a 77W has more cargo volume available after bags than a 400 seat A380 (not qualified enough to start bringing in distances)

You have to factor in the distance. Like I said the A380 is volume limited but that volume is not relevant if by filling it you can't make it to your destination. If volume was that significant the A346 would have out-sold the 77W. There are a lot of factors that go into planning a mission.

IIRC, on the EK flight from MAN-DXB, the 77W can carry roughly 12t more cargo based on an average load of 500kg per LD3 and assuming a full pax load of bags. The glut of cargo capacity entering the market in the shape of 350's, 787's and 77W's will only drive cargo yield downward, and its already in the toilet.

Braybuddy · Mon May 09, 2016 2:43 am

Oh gosh, I seem to have hit a raw nerve with you guys! You just do not get it: I do not want, or like, a “ruthless and nasty” multinational running what was once a very profitable Irish company. Economics are essential, for sure, but not at any cost. Aer Lingus was profitable before it became Aer IAG! They can fly me to Mars and back in a fleet of brand-spanking-new A380s – with quadruple Avios points – and it won't make the slightest difference . . . And before the poker-faced among you tell me that A380s do not have the range and are not capable of interplanetary travel, I am speaking figuratively here

.

Nor do I need, or want, any lectures on Irish history. Thanks all the same guys, but I had all that in school!

Nor do I want DUB turning into a feeder hub for LHR -- it already has enough congestion for that!

Nor do I want expansion at any cost either: I know most people on these forums are all for growth, growth, growth: more routes to more destinations with more aircraft, but where exactly do you shout stop? Any growth at DUB through Aer IAG will only ever be an artificial expansion. What happens when preclearance becomes available in LHR, MAN and MAD?

So that’s where I’m coming from. Sorry to rain on your parade guys, but sometimes it’s healthy – and necessary – to air opposing views.

And I missed these:

Eagleboy · Mon May 09, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 133):
Nor do I want DUB turning into a feeder hub for LHR -- it already has enough congestion for that!

Nor do I want expansion at any cost either: I know most people on these forums are all for growth, growth, growth: more routes to more destinations with more aircraft, but where exactly do you shout stop? Any growth at DUB through Aer IAG will only ever be an artificial expansion. What happens when preclearance becomes available in LHR, MAN and MAD?

So that’s where I’m coming from. Sorry to rain on your parade guys, but sometimes it’s healthy – and necessary – to air opposing views.

Nice to actually heard your viewpoint stated so rationally. I respect that this is your opinion. Personally I differ. Time will tell who is correct, I do however, definitely see the danger that you are referring to. Personally I felt that this danger was more imminent to an independent EI (Which I would have preferred over under IAG btw)
In previous threads you were less clear about your viewpoint and seem anti-IAG purely on a "No to everything" stance.

shamrock604 · Tue May 10, 2016 12:21 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 133):

Pre clearance is only a nice to have - it doesn't matter if LHR gets it - it still has capacity issues. MAD? In the wrong location for the North Atlantic. MAN? sure, that'll harm connections from that city, but IAG don't have a based carrier there, and it has a great TATL network of its own.

So Pre-Clearance isn't a big deal, IMHO. And as for shouting stop to growth, why would anyone want to do that? Surely the aim is to grow connectivity from this country?

These are red herrings in my view. This is really about what is perceived as 'foreign control' of the carrier.

hispanola · Tue May 10, 2016 12:31 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 133):
What happens when preclearance becomes available in LHR, MAN and MAD?

AENA (or is it ENAIRE?), the Spanish Airport Authority, has already declined the U.S.'s offer for pre-clearance facilities. MAD is no longer an option.

jfk777 · Tue May 10, 2016 12:41 pm

The only IAG airline which should fly A380 is British Airways because of the obvious capacity issues at Heathrow and their diversified route system. AER Lingus Long haul is built for the A330 since its only to North America. IB, even with new routes to Tokyo and Shanghai, is mainly a Latin American airline outside of Europe.

Can one really see an A380 in Havana, Santo Domingo or San Juan PR ? Even on Iberia's larger routes to Mexico and Buenos Aires where the 380 might be usable, it lacks freight capacity and having a small fleet for just a few routes doesn't work very well. IB is better with a long airplane like their current A340-600 or 777-9 for both the passengers and cargo. Flying an A350-900/ 787-9 & 777-9/A350-1000 would be better then one daily A380.

r2rho · Tue May 10, 2016 2:57 pm

I have long advocaded this for IB in old threads. The routes that would support it are clear and have been mentioned by others. IB alone could not viably support a small A380 fleet, but within the framework of IAG (shared maintenance, training, same cabin suppliers, etc, it would work.

My only doubt is the configuration. IB does not have First (nor does its network support it). Thus it would likely be a 550-600 seat config. Would IB introduce a Y+? (not premium Y - IMO Y+ is a better fit). However, having a different cabin configuration to BA would reduce their flexibility to transfer aircraft within IAG.

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