Mexico's Senate on Tuesday ratified the 2014 agreement with the United States that would liberalize air services.
Though not a formal open-skies, it modifies the existing 1960 agreement between the nations and aims to open up new routes and allows for an unlimited frequencies on city pairs.
Mexican senate approves air transport deal with United States
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-airlines-idUSKCN0XN2Y3
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Be interesting to see how this plays out.
Agreement was opposed by unions in Mexico who felt the U.S. side already had a major advantage by holding near 80% market share in traffic between the nations.
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- uberflieger
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RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
American Airlines has been wanting to offer JFK-MEX for decades and most likely will reduce frequency on other routes to accommodate the new flights.
I also expect JetBlue to compete in this market, if it can procure commercially viable slots at Benito Juarez.
I also expect JetBlue to compete in this market, if it can procure commercially viable slots at Benito Juarez.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
Hoping that AS re-opens MEX...was sad to see them close Mexico City. When they horse traded MEX for a JFK slot with AA it was said that AS could go back to MEX once the new agreement was ratified by the Mexican government.
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- uberflieger
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- SurfandSnow
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RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Mexico's Senate on Tuesday ratified the 2014 agreement with the United States that would liberalize air services. |
Finally! I believe this agreement was originally set to go into force on January 1st of this year.
| Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Though not a formal open-skies, it modifies the existing 1960 agreement between the nations and aims to open up new routes and allows for an unlimited frequencies on city pairs. |
If anything the old agreement forced airlines to get creative and come up with new routes like TLC-LAS and SNA-SJD. The new agreement will probably mean a lot more of the same.
| Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Be interesting to see how this plays out |
WN can add LAX-MEX/PVR/SJD, likely shifting the SNA-MEX service to LAX as they did with SAT-MEX becoming the second daily HOU-MEX frequency. WN might want to add MDW-PVR/SJD too. I don't think they had really been prevented from doing anything else, though.
Oh, and DL can finally add JFK-CUN!
| Quoting uberflieger (Reply 1): American Airlines has been wanting to offer JFK-MEX for decades and most likely will reduce frequency on other routes to accommodate the new flights. |
Given that they just cut ORD-MEX, is this really something they're eager to do?
| Quoting uberflieger (Reply 1): I also expect JetBlue to compete in this market, if it can procure commercially viable slots at Benito Juarez. |
That's the real issue. I have to commend WN for having the foresight to jump right into MEX and grab 2 daytime slots - it seemed crazy and painful for the bottom line at the time, but now it makes sense.
| Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 2): Hoping that AS re-opens MEX...was sad to see them close Mexico City. When they horse traded MEX for a JFK slot with AA it was said that AS could go back to MEX once the new agreement was ratified by the Mexican government. |
Isn't AS far better at catering to Mexican leisure markets (that is, American tourists) rather than the VFR markets like GDL and MEX? If anything codesharing with AA seems like the perfect way for the airline to offer access to MEX while focusing on what they do best.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
WN has been waiting for this to pass in Mexico.
I see them taking full advantage of this.
Especially with its current service in MEX.
As of now they have 1 daily SNA and 2 daily HOU.
I don't expect them to get anymore slots at MEX but I can see a reshuffle of the destinations.
Like Dropping the 1 daily SNA and adding 1 daily LAX in its place.
As for the 2 HOU round trips I also see them dropping 1 of the 2 daily n/s to HOU and adding 1 daily non stop to DEN,MDW,MCO or BWI.
My prediction I can see something like
............................05:30 LAX 737-800
HOU 12:50 .....13:45 MDW 737-800
LAX 14:15 ......15:10 HOU 737-800
MDW 22:30 ............737-800
Flyguy
[Edited 2016-04-27 15:11:27]
[Edited 2016-04-27 15:12:26]
I see them taking full advantage of this.
Especially with its current service in MEX.
As of now they have 1 daily SNA and 2 daily HOU.
I don't expect them to get anymore slots at MEX but I can see a reshuffle of the destinations.
Like Dropping the 1 daily SNA and adding 1 daily LAX in its place.
As for the 2 HOU round trips I also see them dropping 1 of the 2 daily n/s to HOU and adding 1 daily non stop to DEN,MDW,MCO or BWI.
My prediction I can see something like
............................05:30 LAX 737-800
HOU 12:50 .....13:45 MDW 737-800
LAX 14:15 ......15:10 HOU 737-800
MDW 22:30 ............737-800
Flyguy
[Edited 2016-04-27 15:11:27]
[Edited 2016-04-27 15:12:26]
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- uberflieger
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RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4): (AA) they just cut ORD-MEX |
I was very surprised, but like LAX-MEX, which AA was so eager to fly, they didn't even wait for the new bilateral and cut a deal with partner AS, JFK is a must for the AAdvantage Program to compete with SkyMiles/Club Premier for the higher yield Mexico City FF. I'm guessing ORD has turned into mostly price sensitive VFR.
[Edited 2016-04-27 16:36:45]
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
Saw a little blurb in a daily news summary I receive.
The Mexico Secretariat of Communications and Transportation expect that the new bilateral will lead to 16% passenger growth in passenger traffic between the nations, generating up to $650 million USD to the tourism sector annually within 3-years.
Of course the otherside of this is the union concerns of what it might do to Mexican carriers as they could see further market share erosion beyond the 5:1 advantage the U.S already has in the market.
The Mexico Secretariat of Communications and Transportation expect that the new bilateral will lead to 16% passenger growth in passenger traffic between the nations, generating up to $650 million USD to the tourism sector annually within 3-years.
Of course the otherside of this is the union concerns of what it might do to Mexican carriers as they could see further market share erosion beyond the 5:1 advantage the U.S already has in the market.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): Of course the otherside of this is the union concerns of what it might do to Mexican carriers as they could see further market share erosion beyond the 5:1 advantage the U.S already has in the market. |
I'm not sure there's a meaningful negative impact on the Mexican carriers in comparison to continuing the status quo, and AM might actually be helped if the new agreement allows them to receive antitrust immunity with DL. The lack of available slots at MEX will continue to limit competition there and the number of city pairs where authorities are limiting new carrier entry is presently pretty small. The Mexican LCC's have really been competing on the margins rather than aggressively going up against the U.S. carriers IMO.
| Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 5): Like Dropping the 1 daily SNA and adding 1 daily LAX in its place. As for the 2 HOU round trips I also see them dropping 1 of the 2 daily n/s to HOU and adding 1 daily non stop to DEN,MDW,MCO or BWI. |
I think there's some value in the O&D market at HOU by operating twice daily. HOU is also better-connected to spoke markets with stronger demand to MEX.
| Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 5): Like Dropping the 1 daily SNA and adding 1 daily LAX in its place. |
I think there's some value in being the only carrier between SNA & MEX, actually, and most West Coast markets with non-stop service to LAX also have non-stop service to SNA (and SNA has a couple which LAX lacks).
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4): Oh, and DL can finally add JFK-CUN! |
CUN never had restrictions. It was always Open Skies. DL could have added JFK-CUN ages ago if it so wished.
| Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 5): WN has been waiting for this to pass in Mexico. I see them taking full advantage of this. Especially with its current service in MEX. As of now they have 1 daily SNA and 2 daily HOU. |
They also have 1 daily to SAT from MEX
Saludos!
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting luisde8cd (Reply 9): CUN never had restrictions. It was always Open Skies. DL could have added JFK-CUN ages ago if it so wished. |
Until this new agreement, CUN, like other resort cities, was limited to three US airlines from any US city.
That's why Airtran and Frontier had to duke it out for Chicago-CUN, because only one authority (of the three) had become available:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...irtran-frontier-to-battle-it.html/
"AirTran, Frontier to battle it out for Chicago-Cancun rights
The U.S.-Mexico air treaty allows three U.S. carriers on that route. United Airlines and American Airlines already hold those rights, but the third carrier – Brendan Airways flying as USA 3000 Airlines – is leaving the route as of Jan. 30".
The DOT awarded the route to Airtran and it subsequently went to Southwest, of course.
Frontier continues to fly ORD-CUN as charter for Apple Vacations and I wouldn't fall over in shock if it applies for scheduled service once the new agreement comes into force.
mariner
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
I think we'll see WN start up some 1x or 2x weekly flights from cities like BNA, STL, MCI, IND, PHX, PIT, MSY, and maybe TPA to some of the resort cities.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4): sn't AS far better at catering to Mexican leisure markets (that is, American tourists) rather than the VFR markets like GDL and MEX? If anything codesharing with AA seems like the perfect way for the airline to offer access to MEX while focusing on what they do best. |
AS has done a lot better in GDL than they ever did in MEX.
| Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 5): WN has been waiting for this to pass in Mexico. I see them taking full advantage of this. Especially with its current service in MEX. As of now they have 1 daily SNA and 2 daily HOU. I don't expect them to get anymore slots at MEX but I can see a reshuffle of the destinations. Like Dropping the 1 daily SNA and adding 1 daily LAX in its place. As for the 2 HOU round trips I also see them dropping 1 of the 2 daily n/s to HOU and adding 1 daily non stop to DEN,MDW,MCO or BWI. My prediction I can see something like |
Will WN re-instate SAT-MEX at some point? That's a very busy route from there.
How about PHX-MEX? Is there a good chance WN will add that route?
Does anyone have stats on how WN is doing on SNA-MEX?
LAX already has a good number of MEX service, Even DL was considering re-instating their flights on this route.
What are the chances that will happen? DL already has a decent JV with AM in the market.
I think we'll see SJC-MEX at some point. Perhaps AS, Y4, or maybe AM will enter SJC.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
At today's International Aviation Symposium in Phoenix it was mentioned by speaker that while the Mexican Senate might have approved the agreement, the Mexican government had yet to exchange the required diplomatic paper with the U.S. in order for the agreement to become valid and effective.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4): Isn't AS far better at catering to Mexican leisure markets (that is, American tourists) rather than the VFR markets like GDL and MEX? |
Yes, but that's largely because the customers in the VFR market to Mexican non-leisure destinations don't buy from the airlines directly, let alone online, they buy from brick-and-mortar travel agencies who go through consolidators for wildly inexpensive bulk fares.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
More seats, more planes, more frequencies... will be good for the market!
Is the Mexico - US market bigger than the US - Canada?
g77
Is the Mexico - US market bigger than the US - Canada?
g77
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- mke717spotter
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RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
MKE already has a respectable amount of demand/service to Mexico already. Maybe now WN will add a SJD flight?
Why So Much MKE-Caribbean/Mexican Beach Flights? (by knope2001 Aug 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)
Why So Much MKE-Caribbean/Mexican Beach Flights? (by knope2001 Aug 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
Think anyone will try TPA-MEX?
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 18): |
I've hear any where from 20 to 25 new markets.
Most will likely be Saturday only service to places like SJD,PVR and CUN.
Flyguy
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting usflyguy (Reply 12): I think we'll see WN start up some 1x or 2x weekly flights from cities like BNA, STL, MCI, IND, PHX, PIT, MSY, and maybe TPA to some of the resort cities. |
A lot of these cities already have at least 1X weekly service to CUN. PIT for example has 5X weekly on 3 carriers, G4-3X, DL-1X and AA-1X. Using PIT for an example all of these are tied in with Apple in one way or another. G4 is exclusively Apple/Vacation Express and both DL and AA have significant blocks of seats committed to Apple. The remainder are open to anyone. I believe that Apple has similar arrangements in BNA, MCI, IND and STL. Not sure about the others listed. Given the all inclusive nature of many CUN resorts I think WN would struggle even with 1X weekly without some form of travel agent support.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
I hope we see additional service from SJC to Mexico.
MEX
MLM
GDL (additional flights)
MTY
MEX
MLM
GDL (additional flights)
MTY
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting laca773 (Reply 24): I hope we see additional service from SJC to Mexico. MEX MLM GDL (additional flights) MTY |
It would be great to see SJC-MEX service! MLM would do extremely well, with the huge population in the Bay Area from Michoacan. MX in it's heyday had service SJC to GDL/ZCL/BJX/MEX and MLM, including a 757 in the mix during peak season.
| Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 15): Yes, but that's largely because the customers in the VFR market to Mexican non-leisure destinations don't buy from the airlines directly, let alone online, they buy from brick-and-mortar travel agencies who go through consolidators for wildly inexpensive bulk fares. |
This still holds true, but we are seeing more and more web savvy VFR travelers, as well as an increase of Mexican tech business travelers, especially into the Silicon Valley from GDL and MEX.
Tomas SJC
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
We will probably see SBN-CUN on Allegiant as soon as our US Customs facility is finished and opened
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
Quoting usflyguy Reply27
"Will this be G4's first scheduled international service? They don't currently have any international destinations on their route map."
Several years ago G4 approached the management at SBN with a proposal for service to CUN contingent on the installation of a US Customs facility at SBN. SBN has been slowly working on it an building support for it int he community. Well they finally got U.S. Government designation and approval for the design of the facility and it's presently under construction and should open this fall.
I don't know if this will be G4's first international service or not as it's still in the works. Most likely the route will be flown by G4 as it's the first international route that SBN is going after. Also a travel operator has been interested in Bahamas service.
"Will this be G4's first scheduled international service? They don't currently have any international destinations on their route map."
Several years ago G4 approached the management at SBN with a proposal for service to CUN contingent on the installation of a US Customs facility at SBN. SBN has been slowly working on it an building support for it int he community. Well they finally got U.S. Government designation and approval for the design of the facility and it's presently under construction and should open this fall.
I don't know if this will be G4's first international service or not as it's still in the works. Most likely the route will be flown by G4 as it's the first international route that SBN is going after. Also a travel operator has been interested in Bahamas service.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
What are the chances of Y4 taking advantage of this?
They currently funnel most of the international destinations through GDL. Could we ever see them opening for example MEX-OAK/JFK/SFO/DFW or DAL?
Aeolus
They currently funnel most of the international destinations through GDL. Could we ever see them opening for example MEX-OAK/JFK/SFO/DFW or DAL?
Aeolus
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
Yes, the new air services bilateral agreement is going to liberalize the U.S.-Mexico market almost to the extent of an open skies market.
RE: Mexican Senate Approves US Air Service Agreement
| Quoting Mugler (Reply 31): Quoting Aeolus (Reply 29): But isn't MEX at full capacity right now |
No new operations allowed between 7:00AM and 22:59PM. Open skies? Almost, yes but corruption and AeroMexico still won.
http://www.negocioselnorte.com/aplic...rticulo/default.aspx?Id=840645&v=5
[Edited 2016-05-13 21:25:46]
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