Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:55 pm

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 49):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 48):
YVR-SIN is just too small a market from Canada and it's too far south to make a good connecting hub for much of the rest of Asia apart from equally small markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

Right, but it has to be far higher-yielding, and as mentioned there are valuable connections on both sides of the route (many ASEAN capitals and major Canadian+US cities) that can help fill the plane.

Major US cities that would account for almost all the SIN traffic already have dozens of convenient one-stop connections on many carriers, and 4 of the largest US markets (JFK/LAX/SFO/IAH) also have SQ one-stop direct service and SQ has indicated they plan to restart nonstop EWR-SIN service at some point. I can't see much traffic wanting to connect in Canada, and if AC ever did start SIN service I can't see it being daily which would make it unattractive for business travel.

I expect the AC seasonal YVR-DEL service is to make use of surplus capacity during the time of the year when their major transatlantic markets are their weakest and fares are low, but it's the peak season to India. And even VFR passengers are often willing to pay somewhat more for nonstop service which will be many hours faster than quite a few other YVR-DEL one-stop connections.
 
upwardfacing
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:09 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 50):

Major US cities that would account for almost all the SIN traffic already have dozens of convenient one-stop connections on many carriers

Including UA SFO-SIN coming soon.

Speaking of United: If passenger market size were the primary factor, as you suggest it is with Air Canada, UA would be flying nonstop places to the Philippines and India from SFO rather than to Singapore!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 50):
And even VFR passengers are often willing to pay somewhat more for nonstop service which will be many hours faster than quite a few other YVR-DEL one-stop connections.

This is highly unlikely. The VFR enthusiasts that are active on forums like this will claim this is the case, but airline and travel trade professionals will suggest that the data simply does not support this assertion.

I came across a post on another forum written by someone who books corporate travel in Vancouver, who regularly sends people to DEL in either premium eco and business class exclusively, and who is super-pleased that his employees will save 5 hours compared with a connection in YYZ. The question is: how many like-minded corporations are there in Vancouver?
 
S75752
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:34 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
Star airlines has figured out how to fly from 6 NA airports nonstop to India while others cannot make the math work for even 1.

Connections, locations, and partners. I don't recall if DL and AA had a partner in India during their attempts, but I think it's clear that connections within India and in America are absolutely essential to success there.

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 49):

You know as well as anyone how terribly low-yielding YVR-DEL is, particularly now with the three major mainland China carriers in the market.

I'm starting to seriously question just how low yielding India actually is, especially from SFO.
 
upwardfacing
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 12:07 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 52):
I'm starting to seriously question just how low yielding India actually is, especially from SFO.

India tends to be low yielding in all cabins to nearly all places. Full stop. Well maybe Japan is a slight exception. Any medium or long haul airline serving the country has to be careful about offering too much capacity, as there are too many competing carriers with hubs in between your Indian destination and your own hub that can undercut you in pricing. Plus, the country so large and fragmented that smaller cities are are more conveniently accessed via intermediate points. Most of the people who think India is not a low yielding market don't understand what yield means in the context of the airline industry.

In the case of SFO, if it were not low yielding, UA would have launched DEL rather than, or in addition to, TLV, SIN, and AKL.
 
LAXDESI
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 1:48 am

The current maximum premium on AC non-stop YVR-DEL RT during peak December-January is around $400 with China Southern as the cheapest one-stop alternative. However you do save about an average of 11 hours each way.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 2:48 pm

I think one of the things people seemed to have forgotten when addressing this route, and even the YYZ-DEL route was cargo.

People have chimed in speaking to the low yield, VFR aspects of the route- and quite rightly so, but the cargo opportunities with the 787 are terrific.

I think we can all agree that there was never the "right frame" to operate the route prior to this. With the 787 cargo capacity has increased massively compared to the 767. In fact one can tie in the recent Cargojet agreement. South Am is a terrific cargo market for AC but the destinations Cargojet will be flying are likely ones that will see 767 service for quite awhile. The increased cargo lift flown out of South Am by Cargojet can be absorbed down range throughout the network by the 787's increase in belly space.

I think the profitability of this route could hang on the cargo aspect of things.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6490
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 3:05 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 45):
going to start off on a seasonal basis, utilizing an A340.

Which one? A -300 or -500?
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1134
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 56):
Which one? A -300 or -500?

Considering this is from a thread circa 2001, it should be a 343.
Vahroone
 
blrsea
Posts: 1919
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 4:36 pm

Good move by AC. There are lots of Indians in vancouver area, and now, there are also many tech companies in that area. I also ran into quite a few students from India studying in BC universities. I hope it is a success and goes daily soon!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6490
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 5:39 pm

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 57):
Considering this is from a thread circa 2001, it should be a 343.

Ah yes, you're right. The -500s only arrived in 2004, so it would have been one of their -313s I guess.
 
migair54
Posts: 2425
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 45):
Interestingly, AC's YVR-DEL flight that was going to go live in October 2001 (but obviously didn't go through due to 9/11) was also going to start off on a seasonal basis, utilizing an A340.

I think the flight was operated by Canada 3000 on the A343, the AC service to DEL was YVR-LHR-DEL until 1999.


Schedule is out.

AC072 YVR2140 – 0120+2DEL 789 246
AC073 DEL0630 – 0655YVR 789 146

And YYZ-DEL going daily with B789

AC070 YYZ2035 – 2055+1DEL 789 D
AC071 DEL0045 – 0500YYZ 789 D
 
User avatar
Ytraveller
Posts: 1287
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:47 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Sun May 01, 2016 6:45 pm

I don't believe Canada 3000 ever served YVR-DEL nonstop. According to the article below, they started YYZ-DEL instead due to a drop in traffic. The flight started in October 2001 and Canada 3000 ceased ops the next month.

So this will be the first time YVR and DEL are linked nonstop.

Interestingly, the article also states that Canada 3000 intended to start a YYZ-BOM flight with A332 from November 2001. Could we see AC launch such a route?

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2001/10/10/stories/141004fg.htm

[Edited 2016-05-01 11:55:36]

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