Page 1 of 2

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:38 pm
by kamloops
Air Canada Announces Non-Stop YVR-DEL Seasonal Route
Open Jaw
27.04.16
AC has announced the introduction of the only non-stop flights between YVR and DEL, eff. 20OCT16, in time for Diwali festivities. The seasonal, 3 times weekly flights will complement the carrier’s YYZ-DEL non-stop service launched last fall.

"Customer response to our Toronto-Delhi service has been extremely positive, and with this new seasonal Vancouver route, we are strategically increasing our presence in the important Asia-Pacific market in time for Diwali festival celebrations. Our non-stop Dreamliner flights from our Vancouver hub will also offer the shortest elapsed flying time from Calgary, Edmonton, Seattle, Portland and Los Angeles to Delhi," said Benjamin Smith, President, Passenger Airlines at Air Canada. "The operating economics of the Dreamliner together with the efforts of the Vancouver Airport Authority who have maintained airport operating costs at levels among the lowest in Canada, have enabled us to grow our Vancouver hub. Together with our extensive western Canada domestic and western U.S. transborder network combined with the seamless connection experience through YVR's U.S. in-transit pre-clearance facilities, position YVR to be the preferred gateway hub for trans-Pacific travel to and from North America."

Flights will operate 3 times-weekly 20OCT16 thru 08APR17 with AC’s 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft featuring 30 International Business Class lie-flat pod suites, 21 Premium Economy and 247 Economy Class seats.

"We are thrilled that Air Canada is launching non-stop service between Delhi and Vancouver later this year," said Craig Richmond, President & CEO at YVR. "Our community has requested this route for many years and it will be a pleasure to celebrate its arrival during Diwali. I would like to thank our long-standing partner Air Canada for opening up this exciting new route and for supporting us in our vision to be a world-class, sustainable connecting hub between Asia and the Americas."

"The Canada-India Business Council is thrilled to hear that Air Canada will be offering yet another direct service to India via Vancouver. These direct routes facilitate speedy travel for those considering and currently doing business in India," commented Gary Comerford, President & CEO, Canada-India Business Council.

AC has optimized connections to and from the carrier's Western Canada and Western U.S. network through the airline's YVR hub, and in DEL, Star Alliance partner AI offers connectivity across the Indian subcontinent.

URL: http://www.openjaw.com/newsroom/arti...es-non-stop-yvr-del-seasonal-route
I think overtime it will go daily.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:26 pm
by lesfalls
Is there really demand for such a service from YVR?

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:44 pm
by a380787
impressive .... even though this is seasonal, AC+UA+AI will connect 6 North American airports nonstop to 2 airports in India.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:29 pm
by SpaceshipDC10
Quoting lesfalls (Reply 1):
Is there really demand for such a service from YVR?

Apparently they think so since they launch seasonal thrice-weekly service.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:37 pm
by behramjee
yes there is high demand but at very low yields from YVR to DEL v.v

In 2015, 141,000 passengers flew YVR-DEL-YVR so there is a big P2P market demand + as the AC press release states, it shall also be aggressively targeting pax from YVR/YEG/LAX/SEA/SFO via YVR to DEL. Btw YYC-DEL + YEG-DEL demand last year was 62,000 passengers which is quite decent.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm
by Ytraveller
Finally able to post about this... Great news!!! Vancouver - Delhi has been considered for years, amazing to finally see it happen. Interesting though that it's seasonal, there aren't many seasonal long haul routes (excluding those to the Caribbean etc).

Of course this must be largely possible due to the Canadian Govt's keeping out the ME3. But it's still great to see.

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 1):
Is there really demand for such a service from YVR?

Must be, as AC was planning to launch this same route in October 2001, but of course never happened. Nice article here on AC's history in India: http://airwaysnews.com/blog/2016/04/...a-launches-vancouver-delhi-flight/

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:44 pm
by Ytraveller
Could we see further expansion by AC in India? YYZ-BOM maybe, I'd love to see a nonstop to BLR but it is too long and demand is lower. Highly doubt other Canadian cities could get a nonstop.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:44 pm
by SpaceshipDC10
Quoting ytraveller (Reply 5):
Of course this must be largely possible due to the Canadian Govt's keeping out the ME3.

Perhaps, but there also must be the non-stop part of it that may interest some people.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:50 pm
by LAXdude1023
Quoting lesfalls (Reply 1):
Is there really demand for such a service from YVR?

Uhhh....yes. Vancouver has the 4th largest Indian population in North America after Toronto, NYC, and the San Francisco Bay area.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:51 pm
by YXXMIKE
Great news - I do wonder if this is a toe in the water for AC and if successful we'll see this go year round in the future? This has to be one of the most talked about non-routes in YVR; for the past 15 years; there has always been the question of why there isn't a YVR - India direct flight but maybe this is really the 787 proving what it can open up on these long thin routes.

Out of curiosity which routing would this fly?

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:08 pm
by tortugamon
I wonder how much this flight eats into AI's SFO flight.

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 5):
Of course this must be largely possible due to the Canadian Govt's keeping out the ME3. But it's still great to see.

Certainly a heavily contributing factor.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 7):
Perhaps, but there also must be the non-stop part of it that may interest some people.

Sure but I don't think this flight is going to be filled with people who are O&D YVR/DEL

There are very appealing connections from the US that will heavily contribute. AC even went so far as to highlight that fact.

So subsidized ME3 don't get the traffic but government protected AC does.

tortugamon

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:12 pm
by GE9X
High demand but low yield, especially for such a long route. However I have no doubt it will be a success. It could also benefit from LAX and SFO traffic, but of course YVR (and YYZ) can't really function as a hub without visa-free transit despite its ideal location to/from India.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:49 pm
by S75752
Neat, sounds like the success of AI's SFO inspired AC. This should prove to be a useful route for YVR, SEA, and PDX areas without backtracking to SFO. I imagine this might eat a tiny bit in to AI's traffic, given that it actually does have competitive locations and flight times thanks to being in the West Coast - India overflight, but not enough to make too noticeable of a difference, There's certainly enough demand on the southern vs northern west coast for the two flights to co-exist.

What I don't get is why they start it with a 789, DEL is perfectly within range of a 788, and I'd think the reduced capacity of the 788 could allow for less risk in trying it out year long.

Which of AI or 9W will they codeshare with on the India side?

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:55 pm
by Ytraveller
Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):
Which of AI or 9W will they codeshare with on the India side?

AI, fellow Star Alliance partner.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:04 pm
by Prost
I wonder what impact (if any) this will have on EK double daily SEA-DXB flight.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:05 pm
by usflyer msp
Odd question, are DEL-YVR/SFO considered transatlantic or transpacific? They really don't go over, or really even close to either ocean while inflight. Should we create a new classification - transarctic?

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:35 pm
by GE9X
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 15):

Odd question, are DEL-YVR/SFO considered transatlantic or transpacific? They really don't go over, or really even close to either ocean while inflight. Should we create a new classification - transarctic?

"Transarctic" flights are called polar routes. While DEL-YVR/SFO aren't technically transpacific, they do obviously fly very close to the Pacific as they near their destination, especially in the case of DEL-SFO which is over the ocean all the way to SFO right after it crosses Alaska on the great circle route. "Real" polar routes are those like YUL-PEK or YYZ-HKG which really aren't either TATL or TPAC.

[Edited 2016-04-27 16:36:54]

[Edited 2016-04-27 16:37:33]

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:57 pm
by Viscount724
Quoting ytraveller (Reply 5):
Vancouver - Delhi has been considered for years, amazing to finally see it happen.
Quoting GE9X (Reply 11):
High demand but low yield, especially for such a long route.

YVR-DEL isn't much further than a few other transpacific nonstops from YVR. It's 320 nm further than MNL, 529 miles further than HKG. It's 715 nm shorter than SYD and 362 nm shorter than BNE.

YVR-DEL 6,026 nm

YVR-MNL 5,706 nm
YVR-HKG 5,555 nm
YVR-SYD 6,741 nm
YVR-BNE 6,388 nm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 15):
Odd question, are DEL-YVR/SFO considered transatlantic or transpacific?

It's considered Transpacific for airline traffic statistics etc, regadless of the actual routing.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:43 am
by Prost
Do the Himalayas add mileage to this route?

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:11 am
by GE9X
Quoting GE9X (Reply 16):
especially in the case of DEL-SFO which is over the ocean all the way to SFO right after it crosses Alaska on the great circle route.

So I went and looked at the routing for SFO-DEL and I was completely wrong, turns out it actually goes over Siberia and Nunavut, really close to the pole, while DEL-SFO usually goes further south over Russia, Scandinavia, Greenland, and Nunavut. Interesting, quite a bit far off the great circle route.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:36 am
by VIDP
Quoting ytraveller (Reply 6):
Could we see further expansion by AC in India? YYZ-BOM maybe, I'd love to see a nonstop to BLR but it is too long and demand is lower. Highly doubt other Canadian cities could get a nonstop.

Highly unlikely but then AI in partnership with GMR has got their hub working in DEL which allows you to connect to all the major and minor cities for star alliance flyers. And it is also a home hub to another Full service carrier UK and 2 very strong Low Cost Carriers 6E and SG. AC has safely hedged themselves by flying into the most well connected airport in India.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
In 2015, 141,000 passengers flew YVR-DEL-YVR so there is a big P2P market demand

Can you share the YYZ-DEL-YYZ numbers.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:25 am
by Thenoflyzone
Quoting GE9X (Reply 16):
especially in the case of DEL-SFO which is over the ocean all the way to SFO right after it crosses Alaska on the great circle route. "Real" polar routes are those like YUL-PEK or HKG which really aren't either TATL or TPAC.


Anything that flies north of 78 deg north latitude is a polar flight. Although the GC route between DEL-SFO doesn't take it north of 78, the actual routing of the flight takes it there, therefore DEL-SFO is a polar route. DEL-YVR will also be a polar route. They come almost equally close to the north pole as YUL-PEK does, mostly due to the fact that they take a detour over Pakistan, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan in/out of DEL, due to the Himalayas (See map below).

In actuality, DEL-SFO passes nowhere near Alaska, much less the Pacific. It flies over Nunavut and Alberta down to SFO (again, see map of the real routing). You will see a similar routing to YVR come October.

Quoting Prost (Reply 18):
Do the Himalayas add mileage to this route?

yes, a detour of around 600 nautical miles. Airliners cannot fly straight north from DEL, except for the flights heading to IXL.

All flights to North America take a detour to the northwest, over Pakistan and Afghanistan, similar to the routing towards Europe. This adds close to 600nm to the total flight distance, so around 1.5 hours of extra flying each way. It might not sound like a lot, but this is why it takes 17h 0 min to fly DEL-SFO, almost as long as the longest flight in the world, AKL-DXB (17h 15 min) and yet according to the great circle routing, it is nowhere near the top 30 longest routes in the world.

(The highlighted area around the North pole marks 78 deg north latitude.)
(Real routing of DEL-SFO taken from flightradar24.com)

Quoting GE9X (Reply 19):
So I went and looked at the routing for SFO-DEL and I was completely wrong, turns out it actually goes over Siberia and Nunavut, really close to the pole, while DEL-SFO usually goes further south over Russia, Scandinavia, Greenland, and Nunavut. Interesting, quite a bit far off the great circle route.

And now you know why !  
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
YVR-DEL isn't much further than a few other transpacific nonstops from YVR. It's 320 nm further than MNL, 529 miles further than HKG. It's 715 nm shorter than SYD and 362 nm shorter than BNE.

As i said, due to the Himalayas, DEL-YVR will be considerably longer than the great circle routing between the two cities.

[Edited 2016-04-27 20:06:35]

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:49 am
by Qantas744er
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 21):
All flights to North America take a detour to the northwest, over Pakistan and Afghanistan, similar to the routing towards Europe. This adds close to 600nm to the total flight distance, so around 1.5 hours of extra flying each way. It might not sound like a lot, but this is why it takes 17h 0 min to fly DEL-SFO, almost as long as the longest flight in the world, AKL-DXB (17h 15 min) and yet according to the great circle routing, it is nowhere near the top 30 longest routes in the world.

In addition to the initial high terrain avoidance due to engine out and depressurization scenarios, AI's DEL-SFO is also flying a sub-optimal route over northern Greenland instead of going polar to further avoid headwinds. Less of a factor in the summer (weaker jet stream) but nevertheless not the most optimal routing. This because lack approval for operating in the polar region and a 15% ETOPS180 extension to 207 minutes.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:38 am
by polaris
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 15):
Odd question, are DEL-YVR/SFO considered transatlantic or transpacific?

This is an interesting question. Eastbound flights are even-numbered; westbound flights are odd-numbered.
Vancouver - Delhi is flight AC 072 - eastbound.
Delhi - Vancouver is flight AC 073 - westbound.
This tells us the flights are considered trans-Atlantic.

[Edited 2016-04-27 21:40:58]

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:53 am
by VCEflyboy
Like others have said, this flight is only possible because the ME3 are being kept out of the door.
Having said that, I doubt this will be a money maker.
Chinese airlines have connections timed for India, and even CX serves India well.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:57 am
by kevin
Quoting GE9X (Reply 11):
High demand but low yield

Everyone keeps saying low yield. I do agree with this statement, however there are quite a few people from that area who have been quite successful in their new homeland and will gladly pay to fly premium either for themselves or their elders.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:38 am
by behramjee
Those few people Kevin that you have mentioned in your above post does not even comprise of even 7% of the passenger demographic flying YVR-DEL.

YYZ-DEL is higher yielding than YVR-DEL overall.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:31 pm
by threepoint
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 21):
It might not sound like a lot, but this is why it takes 17h 0 min to fly DEL-SFO, almost as long as the longest flight in the world, AKL-DXB (17h 15 min) and yet according to the great circle routing, it is nowhere near the top 30 longest routes in the world.

First, I learned that the SYD-DFW route will soon be eclipsed - not sure which rock I was hiding under, but thanks for the info. I've spent over 16 hours aloft YVR-SYD on a flight blocked for 90 fewer minutes; there are always weather and other diversionary considerations at play.

As for your GC globe pictured, is there a reason you labeled YLW in place of YVR? Not that it materially affects your illustrated point in the slightest.

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:17 pm
by aeroblogger
Quoting polaris (Reply 23):
This is an interesting question. Eastbound flights are even-numbered; westbound flights are odd-numbered.
Vancouver - Delhi is flight AC 072 - eastbound.
Delhi - Vancouver is flight AC 073 - westbound.
This tells us the flights are considered trans-Atlantic.

This is because India is included in AC's TATL JV, A++.

[Edited 2016-04-28 10:19:14]

Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:29 pm
by a380787
For whatever reason, Star airlines has figured out how to fly from 6 NA airports nonstop to India while others cannot make the math work for even 1.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:01 pm
by ytz
Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
For whatever reason, Star airlines has figured out how to fly from 6 NA airports nonstop to India while others cannot make the math work for even 1.

UA and AC have great hubs for India. They all have solid Indian diasporic populations. On the other hand, how many Indian-Americans in Salt Lake City?

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:04 pm
by a380787
Quoting ytz (Reply 30):

UA and AC have great hubs for India. They all have solid Indian diasporic populations. On the other hand, how many Indian-Americans in Salt Lake City?

Both DL and AA hub at JFK. It's entirely their choice, not about demographics.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:21 pm
by sebring
Quoting ytraveller (Reply 5):
Of course this must be largely possible due to the Canadian Govt's keeping out the ME3. But it's still great to see.

It's just my own theory, but I've always believed that successive Canadian governments have wanted a Canadian carrier to have a chance to create non-stops to some of the Asian and African markets the ME3 target in Canada. For a long time, the obstacles were two-fold - Air Canada had to get its financial act together, which it more or less has. The government wasn't going to preside over, or even allow, its demise, and it wanted AC to maintain as many intercontinental services as possible in markets like YUL, YOW and YYC rather than force everything through YYZ and YVR. The second reason was the lack of a mid-sized aircraft to provide those long, long hauls nonstop, and Boeing incessant delays getting the 787 launched put AC's delivery schedule for that plane years out of whack. All of that is being corrected now, and I expect that in time, the Gulf carriers will get more Canadian access, although I don't think it's going to come in a wave, more of a steady trickle of additional frequencies starting in 2020.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:31 pm
by a380787
Quoting sebring (Reply 32):
it wanted AC to maintain as many intercontinental services as possible in markets like YUL, YOW and YYC rather than force everything through YYZ and YVR.

This is very crucial. They can't afford to let AC degenerate into "Air Toronto". I also believe there's a political aspect as to why AC maintains their HQ at YUL.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:38 pm
by sebring
Quoting behramjee (Reply 26):

Those few people Kevin that you have mentioned in your above post does not even comprise of even 7% of the passenger demographic flying YVR-DEL.

YYZ-DEL is higher yielding than YVR-DEL overall.

I expect so, but there are also fewer alternatives than you have to YYZ-DEL, and the flying time is actually less than YYZ-DEL. Some of best options off the US west coast require a connection at an eastern hub - or overseas - and a flight over the Atlantic. AC will seek feed from all of its Westr Coast destinations, including YVR-San Jose which launches May 9. I also expect because of available block time, we'll see a 787-9 rotation from Vancouver to one of those US West Coast destinations to offer all wide body service to the J market.

Additionally, this service should appeal to the just in time cargo market.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:39 pm
by sebring
Quoting a380787 (Reply 33):

I also believe there's a political aspect as to why AC maintains their HQ at YUL.

That is true, and it is written into the Air Canada Public Participation Act.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:42 pm
by Chaostheory
Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 22):
In addition to the initial high terrain avoidance due to engine out and depressurization scenarios

The route restrictions over Himalaya aren't technical but political. The 787 has the performance and o2 generating capacity available to make a more direct routing north of Leh, India to Kashgar, China work. ICAO is lobbying the Chinese but they are yet to pull their finger out.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:44 pm
by a380787
Quoting sebring (Reply 35):
That is true, and it is written into the Air Canada Public Participation Act.

I'm not too familiar with that act ... does it mean they aren't allowed to ever move it ? Or face substantial penalties if they do so ?

What about moving internally around Quebec ?

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:47 pm
by sebring
Quoting a380787 (Reply 37):

What about moving internally around Quebec ?

The act says specifically Montreal, although I don't know if it would be a contravention of the act to be located in a suburb. I believe the HQ is in St-Laurent, which was a separate city until 2002 when it and other suburbs around and within Montreal were forced to amalgamate with the big city. No one complained when the AC building was in an autonomous St-Laurent, so I suppose Montreal means the island thereof.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:21 pm
by Qantas59
Is AC still interested in Dhaka?

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:22 pm
by Viscount724
Quoting sebring (Reply 38):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 37):

What about moving internally around Quebec ?

The act says specifically Montreal, although I don't know if it would be a contravention of the act to be located in a suburb. I believe the HQ is in St-Laurent, which was a separate city until 2002 when it and other suburbs around and within Montreal were forced to amalgamate with the big city. No one complained when the AC building was in an autonomous St-Laurent, so I suppose Montreal means the island thereof.

Yes it means all municipalities on the island of Montreal, what was once known as the MUC (Montreal Urban Community) until they merged into one big city in 2002, and then many of the former municipalities de-merged a couple of years later since the merger wasn't very popular.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:32 pm
by Thenoflyzone
Quoting threepoint (Reply 27):

First, I learned that the SYD-DFW route will soon be eclipsed - not sure which rock I was hiding under, but thanks for the info. I've spent over 16 hours aloft YVR-SYD on a flight blocked for 90 fewer minutes; there are always weather and other diversionary considerations at play.

As for your GC globe pictured, is there a reason you labeled YLW in place of YVR? Not that it materially affects your illustrated point in the slightest.

Soon eclipsed? Try already eclipsed. As I said, AKL-DXB now operates non stop and is currently the longest flight by distance.

As for YLW, I simply put it there because DEL-SFO passes over YLW, more or less. I wasn't trying to illustrate YVR, although the routing will be similar to that flown to SFO.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:02 am
by Nimish
Excellent to hear about this new route and kudos to AC to have the [email protected]@lls to actually launch a new service to the subcontinent - and not just go crying (like other North American majors seems very happy to do). Best wishes to AC and I hope this route is a daily before long!

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:15 pm
by Ytraveller
Quoting Nimish (Reply 42):

Don't forget about the Canadian Government's protectionism. Not that I support the US3's constant whining, but they are in a different situation than AC.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:46 pm
by threepoint
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 41):
Soon eclipsed? Try already eclipsed. As I said, AKL-DXB now operates non stop and is currently the longest flight by distance.

Well I looked online prior to posting, and the first site I found stated the route will begin in May, which led to my incorrect use of future tense. I understand the route was introduced in March, so I sit corrected. As I said, thanks for the info.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:29 pm
by IrishAyes
Interestingly, AC's YVR-DEL flight that was going to go live in October 2001 (but obviously didn't go through due to 9/11) was also going to start off on a seasonal basis, utilizing an A340.

AC Announces Non-stop YVR-DEL (by Jpyvr Mar 8 2001 in Civil Aviation)

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:59 pm
by Spiderguy252
Quoting ytraveller (Reply 5):
Of course this must be largely possible due to the Canadian Govt's keeping out the ME3. But it's still great to see.

This is an interesting point. I suppose Australia is the other extreme who have handed out their traffic rights on a platter to the ME3 and are now paying the price. Not the pax of course, who are likely more than happy with the choices on offer - but I'm referring to the likes of QF.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:58 pm
by upwardfacing
Quoting sebring (Reply 32):
It's just my own theory, but I've always believed that successive Canadian governments have wanted a Canadian carrier to have a chance to create non-stops to some of the Asian and African markets the ME3 target in Canada.

It's worth noting, though, that there are some cases where AC seems to be at ease leaving to carriers from the other side: Taiwan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, and Ethiopia are some examples.

Quoting sebring (Reply 32):
All of that is being corrected now, and I expect that in time, the Gulf carriers will get more Canadian access, although I don't think it's going to come in a wave, more of a steady trickle of additional frequencies starting in 2020.

I have been thinking the same ever since AC announced YYZ-DEL. The launch of DXB only underscored the point.

I would guess that YYZ-JNB and YVR-SIN are the two pending routes left to launch in the near term.

Speaking of the latter, could those more familiar with AC explain how YVR-DEL was chosen before YVR-SIN?

YVR-SIN ought to have far greater promise from a business travel standpoint, with useful one-stop connectivity both on the Southeast Asia side to major cities (KUL, CGK, BKK, SGN, etc.) as well as on the North American side.

YVR-DEL on the other hand is infamous for its lack of premium demand given the historically abysmal business ties between British Columbia and India. Connections to other major Indian cities are far more time-efficient and convenient via FRA given the proposed schedule (post-midnight arrival into DEL and crack-of-dawn departure).

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:13 pm
by Viscount724
Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 47):
Speaking of the latter, could those more familiar with AC explain how YVR-DEL was chosen before YVR-SIN?

YVR-SIN is just too small a market from Canada and it's too far south to make a good connecting hub for much of the rest of Asia apart from equally small markets like Malaysia and Indonesia. YVR-SIN would fly half empty (or worse) in my opinion while they know they can easily fill YVR-DEL due to the massive VFR market due to the huge Indo-Canadian population in the Vancouver area (around 250,000). There's virtually zero VFR traffic Canada-SIN.

YVR-DEL is also a seasonal service, not year-round, intended to match the period of peak VFR demand.

YVR-SIN is also about 1,000 miles further than YVR-DEL which adds a lot to operating costs. It's roughly 200 miles further than YVR-SYD.

YVR-DEL 6,934 mi, 6,023 nm
YVR-SIN 7,967 mi, 6,923 nm

In my opinion, YVR-SIN makes no sense for AC.

RE: Air Canada Announces YVR-DEL

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:35 pm
by upwardfacing
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 48):
YVR-SIN is just too small a market from Canada and it's too far south to make a good connecting hub for much of the rest of Asia apart from equally small markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

Right, but it has to be far higher-yielding, and as mentioned there are valuable connections on both sides of the route (many ASEAN capitals and major Canadian+US cities) that can help fill the plane. Southeast Asia as a whole is a remarkably large economic force and global trade player--much more so than India is.

You know as well as anyone how terribly low-yielding YVR-DEL is, particularly now with the three major mainland China carriers in the market.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 48):
YVR-SIN is also about 1,000 miles further than YVR-DEL which adds a lot to operating costs. It's roughly 200 miles further than YVR-SYD.

That's a factor for sure, but the issue is not only the number of miles but also the time elapsed.