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MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 7:32 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 49):
Some pilots think that after the combined fleet is fully painted, Parker may call for a revised livery, which would have a silver tail with the logo. People have also said that they like the look of Eagle fuselages, since the letters are below the window. That could be a revision for mainline aircraft.

This would make zero sense. I don't know how many a/c still need painting. I'd say a lot. If they are thinking of changing why waste $$$ to redo the entire fleet, then change it again? Like it or not, this is easily the most recognizable liveries flying.
 
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antoniemey
Posts: 1419
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Wed May 04, 2016 7:58 am

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 46):
Some aviation enthusiast/geek came up with a "hybrid" Globe/Tulip mash-up

The problem is, that emblem would not translate well to smaller applications: business cards, letterhead, luggage tags, etc.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1612
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Wed May 04, 2016 12:51 pm

Quoting hagerstrom (Reply 47):
Since the surviving brand is United, not Continental, I don't see any value in preserving the globe. It certainly distracts me as I think to myself "Continental" when the word "United" should come to mind, instead.

Very few mergers are not a little messy. CO/UA was more than a little, though as much complaining as goes on here, it is by no means the messiest merger ever. (Pan Am/Northeast, AA/TW, US/HP, AA/US potentially)

I don't know if it is their intention, but I like that they seem to be cleaning house before introducing a new long term brand. Then they can say, "Look again, we're new, we're better, we're not the old CO or UA you remember!"

Don't put the badge before the change, like Chrysler saying we're all new with a new logo and brand and the same old cars...
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2823
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Wed May 04, 2016 2:04 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 24):
Designer Tyler Brule

Ugh, that guy is a nob of the highest order. I can't stand his creations - Monocle magazine being the worst.

Unless I missed it - Japan Airlines. I really liked their new livery. So sad they reverted to an even more sterilised version of the old one.
 
a3xx900
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:03 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Wed May 04, 2016 2:07 pm

Not sure if this can be called a U-Turn, but Condor (DE) painted all their planes with the Thomas Cook livery. After sales dropped, they went back to writing "Condor" on their planes, but keeping the Thomas Cook livery.
Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
 
ckfred
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Wed May 04, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 50):
This would make zero sense. I don't know how many a/c still need painting. I'd say a lot. If they are thinking of changing why waste $$$ to redo the entire fleet, then change it again? Like it or not, this is easily the most recognizable liveries flying.

I agree that its sticks out from all of the Eurowhite/mostly white liveries. But then, Hughes Air West with their yellow planes and purple trim stuck out like sore thumbs on airport ramps.

When the last livery was introduced in the late 60s/early 70s, the only issue was the lack of the eagle between the AA. Other than that, most people thought that the lightning bolt was a bit dated.

And, let's remember that the lightning bolt was revised about the time that the 727s started to arrive. The font was changed slightly. The orange rudder was replaced with a red circle with the AA and eagle inside. That livery lasted only 5 or 6 years.

As I said, take pilot gossip for what it's worth.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 52):
I don't know if it is their intention, but I like that they seem to be cleaning house before introducing a new long term brand. Then they can say, "Look again, we're new, we're better, we're not the old CO or UA you remember!"

Don't put the badge before the change, like Chrysler saying we're all new with a new logo and brand and the same old cars...

It's a common practice in the business world to change the branding during or after a trip through Chapter 11. If you look at livery changes in the last 25 years or so, a number of them took place during of after Chapter 11. This includes Trans World, Delta, United, and Continental.

By the same token, AA was due for an overhaul of the brand. The livery had been introduced in the late 60s or early 70s. I don't think the uniforms had been changed much since the late 1990s. AA had been putting off refurbishing gate space because of financial woes.

So, with the Chapter 11 exit in sight, it made sense to start the rebranding.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Wed May 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Quoting a36001 (Reply 38):
I agree! UA have to come up with something that can combine the tulip and the globe! and sooner rather than later! At the moment, the UA livery IMHO is the most boring and dated livery in existence!

Whoever did Alaska's new livery should be hired tomorrow to rebrand United's dated fleet   
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3582
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 4:52 am

Quoting su184 (Thread starter):
Success have made it to some airlines like Alaska and Delta but the majority might have missed it.

I'd actually put Delta in the "U-turn" category.

1993:

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2000:

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2001:

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2016:

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(Note that the years are just when these pics were taken, I'm not sure what the actual introduction dates were for these liveries.)

No, it's not a wholesale return to the original livery but neither is JAL. It *is* a return to their recognizable widget logo on the tail. They went from a swooping widget on the tail, to no widget at all, to a "swoosh" that invoked the swoop of the original but not the widget itself, and then back to the widget again, just turned 90 degrees. People can (and definitely did, here at least) argue about the stylistic points, but the bottom line is they hadn't had a widget on their tails in 15 years, and they brought it back. That's as much of a U-turn as JAL putting the crane back on their tails even while simultaneously butchering the rest of their livery.
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UA444
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 57):

I always hated the wavy gravy livery and thought it was so boring. I don't know why the Ron Allen scheme gets so much scorn while the wavy gravy gets praise. Probably from the same people who think the CO livery and turd ball is a work of art.

And DL's liveries were 1962 (with refreshes afterward), 1997, 2000, 2007.
 
aerokiwi
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Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 8:35 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 57):
That's as much of a U-turn as JAL putting the crane back on their tails even while simultaneously butchering the rest of their livery.

I wouldn't go that far. JAL's return to the crane is almost identical on the tail, while the latest Delta widget is substantially different from the original you posted above. JAL did remove the small cheatline, but the fuselage remained all white, like on the original, while the name and font were enlarged and the acronym removed.

Whereas, everything about the Delta style today is substantially different. A small belly curve replaces a distinct cheatline, the fuselage is fundamentally a different colour and approach, the nose is white, there is no bare metal under-fuselage and the nacelles are usually a dark navy as opposed to the original. Then throw in a very different taile... I wouldn't call that a u-turn by any stretch.
 
iRISH251
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 8:35 am

Quoting RRTrent (Reply 45):
Quoting diverted (Reply 41):ot so much a U-turn per the theme of this thread, but worth mentioning. A few years ago AC trialled a bare aluminum finish on a 762 as a trial to see if there were any cost savings associated.
BA also trialed this on a 737 in the late 80's/early 90's

I don't recall that. I do recall a 737-200 (G-BKYA) wearing a metallic paint in place of white, as a trial before the Landor livery was adopted.


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csavel
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 9:51 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 37):
Quoting B727skyguy (Reply 36):
UA getting rid of the tulip.

I'm getting my popcorn ready.

I am in the minority when I say 'good riddance' to the tulip, which I always thought looked like a W and it was years of wondering why the hell United had a W in its tail. I thought tulip only when under the influence of Humboldt County California's finest exports. So flame away!

Quoting hagerstrom (Reply 47):
Since the surviving brand is United, not Continental, I don't see any value in preserving the globe. It certainly distracts me as I think to myself "Continental" when the word "United" should come to mind, instead.

Perhaps since, as I learned on A.net Etihad is United in Arabic, then United could buy Etihad's old livery. Now for the worst design change in airline history, the award goes to Etihad. Flame away part II.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
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Braybuddy
Posts: 6957
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 11:15 am

Quoting cosyr (Reply 43):
The flag looks like crap, and makes the American flag look like crap. The logo with the eagle's head isn't actually bad. I don't know exactly how they would use it on the tail, but anything would be better than those orange looking stripes!

Couldn't disagree more! I love the interpretation of the Stars and Stripes on the tail: it's an imaginative rendering which I think looks VERY smart. I don't like the eagle-head logo though, it looks straight out of the '70s and doesn't fit in with the rest of the livery at all.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8655
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 11:32 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 29):
Depending on who is in upper management in AA over the next 5 years, it's quite possible that a u-turn may occur (if a cost-benefit analysis supports it).

With such a large fleet that's just completing a paintjob, I don't think it'll be 5 years...give it 10-15, when all the woes of the merger have been solved and there's enough cash to undertake a new design.

Yes, Delta back then painted its planes in the span of 4 years, but Delta had a smaller fleet so it was easier to repaint planes from widget to Ron Allen (ugh) to wavy gravy (meh).

Quoting csavel (Reply 61):
I am in the minority when I say 'good riddance' to the tulip, which I always thought looked like a W and it was years of wondering why the hell United had a W in its tail.

I'm not gonna say "good riddance", but I had the same thought whenever I saw the tulip. Never looked like a 'U' at first glance. That being said, I feel like the globe and tulip could have been combined in some form. Or maybe even not combined but used separately.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
thaiaggie
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:56 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 1:14 pm

TG had this awful experiment on one of their A300


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Barrow, Alaska in Feb. It was Cold!
 
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cosyr
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 1:37 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 63):
Yes, Delta back then painted its planes in the span of 4 years, but Delta had a smaller fleet so it was easier to repaint planes from widget to Ron Allen (ugh) to wavy gravy (meh).

Except they didn't. They had all 3 at the same time, because they didn't finish before changing a 2nd time. I can't remember, but I thought they even had a few Ron Allen's left when they introduced the current livery?
 
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Polot
Posts: 11870
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting cosyr (Reply 65):
I can't remember, but I thought they even had a few Ron Allen's left when they introduced the current livery?

Yes they did. The last mainline Ron Allen plane was N130DL (a 767), repainted in late June/early July 2008. DL's current livery was introduced April 2007. Hard to believe that it has now lasted longer than the Wavy Gravy scheme, I still think of it as "new". I remember when it was first leaked- photos taken of (model) 767 in a "hangar" while they were filming their brand relaunch commercial).

[Edited 2016-05-05 06:57:42]
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2841
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 1:49 pm

In the 1950s, AA did a one-off test DC-6 with a sky blue painted top and orange cheatline instead of the usual bare metal.

CR Smith hated it and ordered it back in bare metal.
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Sooner787
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 57):
I'd actually put Delta in the "U-turn" category.

If Delta would switch to billboard titles along the fuselage, ala AA,
they'd have the best livery around.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting thaiaggie (Reply 64):
TG had this awful experiment on one of their A300

Awful is the word. It look so cheap.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 68):
they'd have the best livery around.

Better? Yes. Best? Not so sure.
 
rta
Posts: 1417
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 4:57 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 46):
My issue with the Globe logo, is not so much the tail, but rather, the rest of the plane......the combination of the white and lettering needs some improvement.

I think if they just painted the grey parts into blue, and maybe got rid of the gold on the tail, it'd look a lot better.

Quoting Polot (Reply 66):
DL's current livery was introduced April 2007. Hard to believe that it has now lasted longer than the Wavy Gravy scheme, I still think of it as "new".

I agree. To me it still looks very fresh and I suspect it'll last a long time.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3582
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 59):
JAL did remove the small cheatline, but the fuselage remained all white, like on the original, while the name and font were enlarged and the acronym removed.

JAL's current livery is almost completely different from the original:


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vs.


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In addition to the changes you already mentioned (which are significant), JAL's old livery was not "all white" - it was white on top, bare metal on bottom, with bare metal engines. The new livery being all white may be one of its problems. It looks like a store brand beer or something, or a cargo airline; it's just completely generic.

The crane is also not exactly the same - the JAL font and positioning are both different. No, it's not restyled to the extent of the Delta widget, but it is restyled and updated. Both have been changed.

If we're talking a "U-turn", which means "turning around and going back the way you came", then you *could* say both of these airlines did that, if your view on what that means is forgiving, or you could say neither did. But I think if you say JAL did, you have to say Delta did too. Both of them went back to the symbols on their tails that made them recognizable to begin with, with big changes to the overall livery.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 6:19 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 71):
Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 59):
JAL did remove the small cheatline, but the fuselage remained all white, like on the original, while the name and font were enlarged and the acronym removed.

JAL's current livery is almost completely different from the original:

He was referring to that livery


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antoniemey
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu May 05, 2016 8:18 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 63):
Yes, Delta back then painted its planes in the span of 4 years, but Delta had a smaller fleet so it was easier to repaint planes from widget to Ron Allen (ugh) to wavy gravy (meh).

It was so much easier that they never finished roll out of either livery. And then tweaked the latter one by changing the widget back (a positive change, mind you).

Quoting rta (Reply 70):
I think if they just painted the grey parts into blue, and maybe got rid of the gold on the tail, it'd look a lot better.

Getting rid of the gold would be a big change to the tail... but, it MIGHT look better simplified to blue and white to match the logo that's plastered everywhere...
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