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su184
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Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:06 pm

Inspired by the photos of Malaysian 744 wearing a retro-livery, then the American-TWA retro jet and seeing several Japan Airlines jets with the characteristic crane on their tails, I wonder if there are other airlines that have brought back their old liveries like JAL did although partly, and if that retro-mania is a way of admitting "we flipped on this one, here is a better scheme".

Success have made it to some airlines like Alaska and Delta but the majority might have missed it.

My wish list is topped by American Airlines, Iberia and the latest LATAM disastrous scheme.

Any u-turns remembered !
 
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winterlight
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:23 pm

Air India experimented with this...


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...before reverting to the previous scheme.
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seemyseems
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:57 pm

Biman had that new look in 2010, scrapped after 2 months
seemyseems in ATL
 
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Polot
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:59 pm

TAAG was going to get a new livery that was painted on their first 777 and first couple of 73Gs, but then got new management that did not like the new livery and reverted back to the old one. The planes were repainted into the old livery before delivery:


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MrHMSH
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:06 pm

I'm not sure it counts as a U-turn, but easyJet did a weird one, they painted this A320 like this:


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I don't know why, it wasn't the final livery (thank god) but it's not even close.
 
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william
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:12 pm

Sad to say the cheatline is not returning.
 
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winterlight
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 4):
I'm not sure it counts as a U-turn, but easyJet did a weird one, they painted this A320 like this:

It was experimental.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 3):

I know I'm pretty much in the minority here, but I actually really liked that new TAAG livery! It wasn't "Eurowhite", it was still interesting and distinctive, and much more modernized. Ah well...
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Polot
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:26 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 7):
I know I'm pretty much in the minority here, but I actually really liked that new TAAG livery! It wasn't "Eurowhite", it was still interesting and distinctive, and much more modernized. Ah well...

Agreed. All it needed was red (or orange) engines and slightly bigger titles. But since it (was going to) replaced a cheatline it was vilified on A.net.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:31 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
But since it (was going to) replaced a cheatline it was vilified on A.net.

LOL!! Amen. While I'm on my "modernized high horse", I also quite liked the short-lived Biman livery applied to the 737-800. True, it involved far more "white space" than the livery it replaced, but I enjoyed the color variations, particularly with the light/dark green pattern on the tail with a red accent. But that's just me   
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su184
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:56 am

Thanks everybody, didn't know about the TAAG one, but the Air India trial was very short lived and the comeback also as they merged with Indian and got a new decent logo now.
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:12 am

Saudia did a u-turn when it comes to the airline's name as displayed on their aircraft.
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sierra3tango
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:38 pm

BA didn't return to the old livery but their 'world tails' disappeared in relative quick time to be replaced by just one of
the 'world tails'

Filler
 
bx737
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:49 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 12):

If memory serves, Margaret Thatcher, at a press event, got a handkerchief and covered up the tail of a model aircraft on display.
 
Independence76
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting bx737 (Reply 13):
If memory serves, Margaret Thatcher, at a press event, got a handkerchief and covered up the tail of a model aircraft on display.

Well, FutureBrand really knows how to do aircraft tails! Just ask the folks at AA.   

(For clarification, the design firm who did the BA World Tails project was eventually purchased by FutureBrand. You may also remember them for the 2012 London Olympics mess).

The BA World Tails, besides the public distaste for them, were removed because ATC at Heathrow and other airports had complaints about tail identification with them and also the costs associated with maintaining all of them with separate paint colors and stencils on-hand hit BA's bottom line negatively. In the end, it wasn't financially smart.

[Edited 2016-04-29 12:05:36]
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:30 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 1):
Air India experimented with this...

Was it only experimental? I saw several different aircraft wearing it, including one 747-300 with peeling paint.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 4):
easyJet did a weird one, they painted this A320 like this

Not that weird, I like it.

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
Agreed. All it needed was red (or orange) engines and slightly bigger titles. But since it (was going to) replaced a cheatline it was vilified on A.net.

Very true.
 
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garpd
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:36 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 14):
The BA World Tails, besides the public distaste for them, were removed because ATC at Heathrow and other airports had complaints about tail identification with them and also the costs associated with maintaining all of them with separate paint colors and stencils on-hand hit BA's bottom line negatively. In the end, it wasn't financially smart.

This is a common story and a misconception.

I have it on very good authority (someone at BA) that the world tails were not supposed to be around for all too long. The whole idea was to celebrate artistry from the all over the world while slowly transitioning to the livery they have now.
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Spiderguy252
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:24 am

Quoting su184 (Reply 10):
Thanks everybody, didn't know about the TAAG one, but the Air India trial was very short lived and the comeback also as they merged with Indian and got a new decent logo now.

The merger with Indian and the current Flying Swan livery happened only in 2007. The livery in question was part of the late-80s/early-90s era.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 15):
Was it only experimental? I saw several different aircraft wearing it, including one 747-300 with peeling paint.

And some A310s as well. The livery wasn't experimental in that sense - it was a fully fledged change in the airline's colour scheme. However, the inevitably uproar led AI to revert to the Maharaja/Palace in the Skies livery.


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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:55 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 16):
I have it on very good authority (someone at BA) that the world tails were not supposed to be around for all too long. The whole idea was to celebrate artistry from the all over the world while slowly transitioning to the livery they have now.

That contradicts everything that has been published about the World Tails. Apart from Concorde, that had the unqiue "Chatham" design (later modified for use on sub-sonic fleet), everything else was wearing the world tails designs. This was the days of BA still being The World's Favourite Airline. In the few years before World Tails BA was celebrating its global reach as seen when the timetables switched from having a photo of BA aircraft on the front to photos of people from around the world.

BA first backed away from World Tails when it was announched hald the fleet would carry the Union Flag design, then later the whole lot were phased out. The World Tails artwork was used everywhere when lauched - when the designs for seat covers in World Traveller (in shades of blues).
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hispanola
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:56 am

The New American Airlines livery is nice, with the large US flag on its tail. Iberia's took some getting used to, and it could probably use some more color, but the Spanish flag tail and the logotype are pleasant elements.

Now, LATAM.    Who would have thought? I had personally understood (at the beginning) that LATAM would just be the name of the Holding Company (like IAG) and that LAN and TAM would remain. This new livery and logo, however, are truly disappointing. They had so much material with the colorful Latin American cultures, this is certainly a mess up.

That Air India livery reminded me of two other experimental liveries:


https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-F...d=9b0749d370169d83ef710da5c3dfb831

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pan-A...d=4a209e60b40c53e312b3a89345593d61

They aren't that different, but experimental nonetheless.
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ro1960
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:56 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 4):
easyJet did a weird one, they painted this A320 like this

I prefer this experiment to the new one:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/EasyJ...d=d1d07671dada7053ac4532690dfe80c9

[Edited 2016-04-30 07:58:06]
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:01 pm

Quoting su184 (Thread starter):
Any u-turns remembered !

In a way DQ.

They were colorful...


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...then got even more colorful,...


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...then they lost their mind completely...


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...before regaining some of it.


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nicode
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:12 pm

And what about Biman Bangladesh and their green livery ?
 
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ro1960
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting hispanola (Reply 19):
That Air India livery reminded me of two other experimental liveries:


https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-F...d=9b0749d370169d83ef710da5c3dfb831

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pan-A...d=4a209e60b40c53e312b3a89345593d61

They aren't that different, but experimental nonetheless.

Probably to satisfy the cheatline nostalgics on A.net   
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flyingturtle
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:54 pm

LX had a significant livery change very soon after the airline was launched. Designer Tyler Brule wanted to have a thinner, more modern looking white cross on the fin, and after a public uproar, the white cross was changed back to the Swissair one. Brule also had a different shade of red in mind for the livery.


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Brule's idea:


LX now:


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Photo © Andre Oferta



Incidentally, the slender cross envisaged by Brule is the original one. In the Middle Ages, Swiss troops used a thin white cross on a red backdrop, and the thicker, stubbier cross is the modern one.


David

[Edited 2016-04-30 08:56:30]
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:08 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 25):
after a public uproar, the white cross was changed back to the Swissair one.

I can imagine that. After the huge trauma Swissair's collapse generated, and the pride related to the "flying bank", particularly on one side of the ditch, their world must have been pretty much upside-down.

I find the Tyler Brule livery still better, even with the thicker cross, than what they have now.
 
global2
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:19 pm

Quoting hispanola (Reply 19):
That Air India livery reminded me of two other experimental liveries:


https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-F...d=9b0749d370169d83ef710da5c3dfb831

OMG--I LOVE this!

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pan-A...d=4a209e60b40c53e312b3a89345593d61

Meh---not so much...

They aren't that different, but experimental nonetheless.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting global2 (Reply 27):
OMG--I LOVE this!

  

Not sure what was the goal with the 'jumbo' thing except perhaps naming the obvious.


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alfa164
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:11 pm

Quoting su184 (Thread starter):
My wish list is topped by American Airlines,

         It is still an eyesore - and it still looks like it was designed by a 6-year-old with a bos of crayons.

Quoting hispanola (Reply 19):
The New American Airlines livery is nice, with the large US flag on its tail.

It isn't a US flag; it is an in-your-face, sort-of interpertation of the US colors - using different colors on a dull background - that doesn't line up will with the shape of the aircraft. It is a prime example of change for the sake of change.
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Independence76
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:46 pm

I know the AA livery is still controversial (and I personally have a passionate hatred for it, which I have to live with since I'm a DFW resident), but let me make my case as objective as possible.

The reality is that the tail is the most complex and expensive design that could have been chosen. AA's and FutureBrand's team in the rebranding process made a large number of errors involving application which, while not related to the tail, was representative of the thought put into the brand. When new management walked in, they called for a vote (with an incorrect choice selection) on it and it barely was accepted with 52% (of the 60% of the company that voted) agreeing it should stay.

For a brand symbol to be hated enough by 1/3 of your employees enough for them to actively vote against it, in most cases that's not considered a relatively successful brand. Considering the (expected) money spent on the rebranding, I don't consider that figure acceptable.

Depending on who is in upper management in AA over the next 5 years, it's quite possible that a u-turn may occur (if a cost-benefit analysis supports it).

[Edited 2016-04-30 11:48:47]
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sun May 01, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting su184 (Thread starter):
My wish list is topped by American Airlines

i've acutally come to love the AA livery. At first I found it jarring, but as time has gone on and Ive gotten used to it and also seeing it in person especially at an AA hub with them all lined up looks impressive. Thats just my humble opinion though   If they were to change it perhaps they could do AA in the new font with the new Eagle slightly above it
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sun May 01, 2016 4:24 pm

I love Braniffs livery(ies). The painted fueslage (varying colors from plane to plane), and the white tail with the "BI" logo. I wish an airline would do that concept again.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 29):

I know the AA livery is still controversial (and I personally have a passionate hatred for it, which I have to live with since I'm a DFW resident), but let me make my case as objective as possible.

Say what you want about it, it grabs your eye. Weather it grabs you in a negative way or positive way is up to you.
When wasn't America great?


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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sun May 01, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 31):
I love Braniffs livery(ies). The painted fueslage (varying colors from plane to plane), and the white tail with the "BI" logo. I wish an airline would do that concept again.

Braniff has had several great liveries, even the ultra looked great although less bright and warmth compared to the two tones.
 
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caoimhin
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sun May 01, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 29):
The reality is that the tail is the most complex and expensive design that could have been chosen.

You're right--and the cost doesn't really translate into it being an especially stunning effect. That "metallic" paint is grey to my eyes, unless I'm stood right next to the aircraft.

The tail is garish, however I've grown comfortable with it. I expect to see it at certain airports, and it does make for a brand that is easy to identify. Given the cost of painting such a massive fleet in that particular livery, I am not holding by breath for a U-turn any time soon from AA, but who knows.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sun May 01, 2016 6:16 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 16):
I have it on very good authority (someone at BA) that the world tails were not supposed to be around for all too long. The whole idea was to celebrate artistry from the all over the world while slowly transitioning to the livery they have now.

That's the first I have heard of this in 19 years. The truth is only Concorde was ever intended to carry the Union Flag tail , full stop. We only got on a B767 after they felt ERII as a passenger on a Cheldsa Rose B763 wasn't as British as some thought....hence one was painted for a royal flight and it looked frankly awesome.
 
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boeingrulz
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Sun May 01, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 7):
know I'm pretty much in the minority here, but I actually really liked that new TAAG livery! It wasn't "Eurowhite", it was still interesting and distinctive, and much more modernized. Ah well...
Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
Agreed. All it needed was red (or orange) engines and slightly bigger titles. But since it (was going to) replaced a cheatline it was vilified on A.net.

I am a native of Angola and was living in Renton Washington when the first 737NG for TAAG was first painted. I loved the new livery (except for the titles). The design represented an evolution, keeping the colors and logo of the existing TAAG livery but updating the paint by giving the design movement.
 
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B727skyguy
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 2:36 am

Quoting hispanola (Reply 19):
The New American Airlines livery is nice, with the large US flag on its tail.

It's an American flag? I thought it was a piano keyboard!

American needs to go back to the iconic AA in their branding. Getting rid of that was as big of a mistake as UA getting rid of the tulip. Every time I see a UA plane with the CO livery, I immediately think, "There's a CO plane." UA has a brand identity problem.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 2:45 am

Quoting B727skyguy (Reply 36):
UA getting rid of the tulip.

I'm getting my popcorn ready.
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a36001
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 3:03 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 37):

I agree! UA have to come up with something that can combine the tulip and the globe! and sooner rather than later! At the moment, the UA livery IMHO is the most boring and dated livery in existence!

[Edited 2016-05-01 20:04:39]
 
alfa164
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 11:13 am

Quoting caoimhin (Reply 33):
You're right--and the cost doesn't really translate into it being an especially stunning effect. That "metallic" paint is grey to my eyes, unless I'm stood right next to the aircraft.

Unless it is in direct sunlight, it looks like an Air-Force-grey fuselage with some stripes drawn in crayon by a 6-year-old on the tail...

Quoting B727skyguy (Reply 36):
It's an American flag? I thought it was a piano keyboard!

  
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MaxxFlyer
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 4:25 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 32):
Braniff has had several great liveries, even the ultra looked great although less bright and warmth compared to the two tones.

I was living in Dallas when the original BN went down. IIRC, before they got in too deep financially there was a decision to standardize the fleet in one of the ultra colors, I just don't recall which one it was.
 
diverted
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 4:38 pm

Not so much a U-turn per the theme of this thread, but worth mentioning. A few years ago AC trialled a bare aluminum finish on a 762 as a trial to see if there were any cost savings associated. In the end, I think they found the upkeep of the bare aluminum negated the fuel savings

 
superjeff
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 5:07 pm

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 40):
I was living in Dallas when the original BN went down. IIRC, before they got in too deep financially there was a decision to standardize the fleet in one of the ultra colors, I just don't recall which one it was.

There were several thoughts, including going to bare metal (a la American), but none ever occurred. Boy do I miss Braniff!
 
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cosyr
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Mon May 02, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting ALFA164 (Reply 28):
It isn't a US flag; it is an in-your-face, sort-of interpertation of the US colors - using different colors on a dull background - that doesn't line up will with the shape of the aircraft. It is a prime example of change for the sake of change.

The part I can't figure out is why make a logo that looks like the shape of a plane's tail and then not put it on the tail? The flag looks like crap, and makes the American flag look like crap. The logo with the eagle's head isn't actually bad. I don't know exactly how they would use it on the tail, but anything would be better than those orange looking stripes!
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 7:39 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 29):
Depending on who is in upper management in AA over the next 5 years, it's quite possible that a u-turn may occur (if a cost-benefit analysis supports it).

With as much money as has been poured into the rebrand, I'd bet more on a modification with a simplification of the pant scheme. Find a more reflective silver, make the stripes single color instead of a cluster of multi-hued segments, and then roll it out as the planes need repainted. Similar enough that it'll only look out of place when right next to another aircraft in the current complex colors, but different enough that it's significantly cheaper to paint.
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RRTrent
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 8:37 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 41):
ot so much a U-turn per the theme of this thread, but worth mentioning. A few years ago AC trialled a bare aluminum finish on a 762 as a trial to see if there were any cost savings associated.

BA also trialed this on a 737 in the late 80's/early 90's
 
Freshside3
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 12:56 pm

Quoting a36001 (Reply 38):

Some aviation enthusiast/geek came up with a "hybrid" Globe/Tulip mash-up.....and it looks really nice!

My issue with the Globe logo, is not so much the tail, but rather, the rest of the plane......the combination of the white and lettering needs some improvement.
 
hagerstrom
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 2:34 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 46):

Since the surviving brand is United, not Continental, I don't see any value in preserving the globe. It certainly distracts me as I think to myself "Continental" when the word "United" should come to mind, instead.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 3:18 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 41):

I loved to see it, it looked so great.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 42):
There were several thoughts, including going to bare metal

Could have been interesting to look at if done well.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 42):
Boy do I miss Braniff!

Back then I was too young to know it, but yes, just for the rainbow in the skies, it would be great to have it today, with lots of 72S.
 
ckfred
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Airlines Livery U-turn

Tue May 03, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 14):
The BA World Tails, besides the public distaste for them, were removed because ATC at Heathrow and other airports had complaints about tail identification with them and also the costs associated with maintaining all of them with separate paint colors and stencils on-hand hit BA's bottom line negatively. In the end, it wasn't financially smart.

It's one thing to be like Braniff, with multiple paint schemes. But, the style of the scheme was the same, and in the 1970s, there were only 3 color schemes (2-tone green, 2-tone blue, and red and orange). BA had so many different tails that it was mind-boggling.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 29):
I know the AA livery is still controversial (and I personally have a passionate hatred for it, which I have to live with since I'm a DFW resident), but let me make my case as objective as possible.

The reality is that the tail is the most complex and expensive design that could have been chosen. AA's and FutureBrand's team in the rebranding process made a large number of errors involving application which, while not related to the tail, was representative of the thought put into the brand. When new management walked in, they called for a vote (with an incorrect choice selection) on it and it barely was accepted with 52% (of the 60% of the company that voted) agreeing it should stay.

For a brand symbol to be hated enough by 1/3 of your employees enough for them to actively vote against it, in most cases that's not considered a relatively successful brand. Considering the (expected) money spent on the rebranding, I don't consider that figure acceptable.

Depending on who is in upper management in AA over the next 5 years, it's quite possible that a u-turn may occur (if a cost-benefit analysis supports it).

Here's the problem. Before the livery was introduced, there were rumors going around that the new livery had a retro theme. That had everyone thinking the lightning bolt. In fact, there was a rendering floating around on the internet of a 787 in a lightning bolt livery.

So, the actual livery was a disappointment.

It is retro in 2 ways. First, the tail design has a very art deco look to it. The scissor-eagle logo, while still very modern in the 2010s, clearly was a product of the 1970s. Even the new logo, while very modern, in my opinion, has a hint of art deco design in it. Second, if you find photos of U.S. military aircraft from the 1930s, often, they red-and white stripes on the rudder, with a blue band running vertically where the rudder attaches to the tail. Certainly, the person or persons who designed the AA tail had to have looked at some photos from the 1930s.

Here's what I've heard from some pilots, and we know that pilot information can be very, unreliable.

Horton realized that US was going to wind up controlling AA post-Chapter 11, and Doug Parker was going to be CEO. Supposedly, Horton had 2 aircraft models in his office with the final 2 livery options. To spite Parker, Horton picked the ugly one.

Now, no one seems to know what the other option was, although I've heard that the logo had been finalized and would have been on either livery.

I do know that painting a tail is expensive and takes a lot of time. Some pilots think that after the combined fleet is fully painted, Parker may call for a revised livery, which would have a silver tail with the logo. People have also said that they like the look of Eagle fuselages, since the letters are below the window. That could be a revision for mainline aircraft.

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