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Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:32 pm
by CARST
http://m.heise.de/newsticker/meldung...taertransporter-A400M-3192018.html

German tech news website heise.de (which is quite reliable) reports about major problems with Airbus three major aircraft programs. I think they might all be known, but perhaps you get some new details from this news piece. It also shows that Airbus thinks to have successful times ahead, but is in some trouble right now.


The A320neos can't be delivered because there are major problems with the engine, there are cooling problems which apparently lead to overheating. P&W expects to find a solution until the middle of the year.

The A350 production ramp-up is going very slow because their are problems with the delivery chain (sounds like a "smaller" 787 outsourcing problem). But sadly they don't share any details with us.

The A400M has engine problems, too. The gearbox has cooling problems and this leads to a lot of wear of all parts related to the gearbox and connecting parts.


Overall Airbus made a smaller profit with a minus of 23% at the operating profit without onetime effects.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:45 pm
by TheRedBaron
The Neos are having engine delivery problems , we knew that already. The A350 must have problems with seats and internal furnishings, on the A400 the Engine is the trouble... Too bad airbus is seen in a bad light for problems not related directly to them.
I hope the engine snafu don't affect other manufacturers.


TRB

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:49 pm
by seahawk
Nothing new. A350 has problems with the cabin interiors, but the necessary corrections are already on the way. The NEO has an engine problem and it might not only by the GTF.

A400M is a different topic. ...

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:52 pm
by CARST
Of course Airbus is blamed for this. They sold the a/c to the airlines or air-forces. If they have a problem with one of their suppliers it can't be the customers problem.


If I buy a iPhone and it doesn't work I don't care if Apple has a problem with one of their memory suppliers in China. I bought an Apple product, it is Apples fault for me. For the airlines it is Airbus fault, too. They should have controlled their suppliers better in the development and testing stages of each aircraft program.

And apparently Airbus failed to control their suppliers like Boeing did when the 787 was developed. Of course on a smaller scale...

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:57 pm
by PlanesNTrains
Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Of course on a smaller scale...

I think the A350 issues are somewhat overblown. Nonetheless, nobody likes hiccups.

-Dave

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:13 pm
by Stitch
Quoting TheRedBAron (Reply 1):
Too bad airbus is seen in a bad light for problems not related directly to them.

Well Boeing is blamed everytime one of their suppliers messes up, so sauce for the goose and all that...

Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
The A320neos can't be delivered because there are major problems with the engine, there are cooling problems which apparently lead to overheating. P&W expects to find a solution until the middle of the year.

Are any A320neos being delivered with LEAP-1A's yet, or are they all PW1100s?



Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
And apparently Airbus failed to control their suppliers like Boeing did when the 787 was developed.

Airbus actually rode herd on their suppliers quite well. Spirit, for example, had some issues (though ironically they were one of the least-problematic 787 suppliers) and Airbus had engineering and production assistance on hand to help resolve the issues fairly quickly.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:14 pm
by scbriml
Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
The A350 production ramp-up is going very slow because their are problems with the delivery chain (sounds like a "smaller" 787 outsourcing problem). But sadly they don't share any details with us.

The A350 production ramp-up is bang on schedule. Airbus is building exactly the number of A350s they expected to. Interior fittings - seats and toilets from Zodiac is the issue and has been known about for a long time.

At their Q1 news conference, Airbus stated that they expect to catch up on A320neo and A350 deliveries later in the year.

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Of course Airbus is blamed for this.

Yes, that's who the customers buy the products from.

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
If they have a problem with one of their suppliers it can't be the customers problem.

Unfortunately it's not an easy situation, but what more do you expect Airbus to have done? The GTF was certified and ready for delivery when the startup/shaft cooling issue was discovered. It's not like Airbus can get GTF engines from anyone else, so I'm afraid it is the customers problem - they can take delivery and accept the restrictions on operations or wait for fixed engines.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:16 pm
by Polot
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
I think the A350 issues are somewhat overblown.

Yes, especially since the core issue (Zodaic being unable to supply seats and other interior fittings on time) is also affecting Boeing.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Are any A320neos being delivered with LEAP-1A's yet, or are they all PW1100s?

All PW so far.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:24 pm
by DocLightning
Quoting CARST (Thread starter):

The A350 production ramp-up is going very slow because their are problems with the delivery chain (sounds like a "smaller" 787 outsourcing problem). But sadly they don't share any details with us.

Yeah, it seems as if Airbus scrambled to make their first deliveries "on time" (by which we mean 6 months in the modern era) but at the expense of not being able to keep up with their ramp-up.

The interesting thing about the PW GTF is that the issues that the engine is having have nothing to do with the gearbox, but actually more to do with the conventional core sections.

Now, the A400M is interesting. I hadn't heard about that. Is this going to be a tougher one to solve?

But in the end, it's the final seller of a product that takes the blame for issues with that product. As CARST says, if I buy a Mac and the Intel CPU is bad, I don't send it back to Intel; I send it back to Apple.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:08 pm
by chiad
Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Of course Airbus is blamed for this. They sold the a/c to the airlines or air-forces. If they have a problem with one of their suppliers it can't be the customers problem.

Is that also the case with engines? Or do customers buy engines directly from the PW, GE or RR?

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:32 pm
by Thunderboltdrgn
Quoting chiad (Reply 9):
Is that also the case with engines? Or do customers buy
engines directly from the PW, GE or RR?

I am not sure but I think they buy the engines separately direct from engine manufacturer.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:42 pm
by scbriml
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Yeah, it seems as if Airbus scrambled to make their first deliveries "on time" (by which we mean 6 months in the modern era) but at the expense of not being able to keep up with their ramp-up.

Again, Airbus A350 production ramp-up is bang on schedule. However, because Zodiac are struggling to deliver seats and lavs, Airbus can't deliver the planes. If you follow the A350 production threads, you'll know there are a lot of A350s built but not yet delivered.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:25 pm
by jacobin777
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
I think the A350 issues are somewhat overblown. Nonetheless, nobody likes hiccups.

   The A359XWB itself is a fantastic plane so that's great news for Airbus and its operators.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
The A350 production ramp-up is bang on schedule. Airbus is building exactly the number of A350s they expected to. Interior fittings - seats and toilets from Zodiac is the issue and has been known about for a long time.
Quoting scbriml (Reply 11):
Again, Airbus A350 production ramp-up is bang on schedule. However, because Zodiac are struggling to deliver seats and lavs, Airbus can't deliver the planes. If you follow the A350 production threads, you'll know there are a lot of A350s built but not yet delivered.

As mentioned below:

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
If I buy a iPhone and it doesn't work I don't care if Apple has a problem with one of their memory suppliers in China. I bought an Apple product, it is Apples fault for me. For the airlines it is Airbus fault, too. They should have controlled their suppliers better in the development and testing stages of each aircraft program.

  

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:05 pm
by Aesma
Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Yes, that's who the customers buy the products from.

Well, for the engines, it's not exactly true, nor for the seats in fact ! The airlines often buy those separately. Of course it's not like they have a lot of choice for engines (2 for A320neo, 1 for A350 and A400M) but still it's separate contracts, maintenance etc.

You can't use the plane without engines and seats, and of course Airbus works hands in hands with the suppliers, but I'm not sure it's the same relationship as with suppliers of subcomponents like the landing gear or rivets or things like that.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:36 pm
by PlanesNTrains
Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 12):
   The A359XWB itself is a fantastic plane so that's great news for Airbus and its operators.

Without question.

-Dave

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:58 pm
by BaconButty
Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
And apparently Airbus failed to control their suppliers like Boeing did when the 787 was developed

Comedy gold!
     

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:05 am
by IslandRob
Quoting BaconButty (Reply 15):
Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
And apparently Airbus failed to control their suppliers like Boeing did when the 787 was developed

Comedy gold!

Might want to re-read CARST's words and try harder to understand what he meant. Regards. -ir

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:07 am
by BaconButty
Quoting IslandRob (Reply 16):
Might want to re-read CARST's words and try harder to understand what he meant. Regards. -ir

Eeeh I read it again, it's ambiguous at best. Would delete if I could.   

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:47 am
by Finn350
Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
German tech news website heise.de (which is quite reliable) reports about major problems with Airbus three major aircraft programs.

Having a structural design issue in the wing-body join is a major problem. Having the plane grounded due to a battery design issue is a major problem. I am not sure having late deliveries for toilet doors qualifies as a major problem (and I don't see them qualified as major in the news piece quoted either).

[Edited 2016-04-28 21:58:25]

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:04 am
by seahawk
No toilet is a major problem if you want to put the plane into service. But Zodiac has built up quite a nasty reputation in the last years, just remember the AA 787 seats drama.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:10 am
by art
Do these guys not have to compensate the OEM or the buyer?

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:49 am
by CARST
Quoting BaconButty (Reply 15):
Comedy gold!
Quoting BaconButty (Reply 17):
Eeeh I read it again, it's ambiguous at best. Would delete if I could.

If you would be the final customer (the airline) you wouldn't find it amusing that your airplanes don't get delivered. You probably have made plans for that plane. Perhaps even customers booked on new routes. If these new planes are just replacements you have made plans to retire your old planes, perhaps sold them already to a specific date or not renewed the leases with the lessor.

So in the end it does not matter if we talk about a structural problem in the wing, a problem with batteries, a problem with lavatory modules, seats or engine cooling. Fact: the airplanes are late, the customers unhappy. Read Lufthansas comments about A320neo deliveries and the first delivered plane.


So please, all fanboyism for Airbus or Boeing aside, Airbus has a problem with all three programs. Apparently they might solve the 320 and 350 issues in just a few month, but still the customers won't be happy.


The A400M might be a larger problem and Airbus can just be happy (after years of delays) that it is still viewed by the European governments like a state-run company (despite being totally independent) and no charges are pressed by the respective air-forces against them.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:22 am
by Ncfc99
Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
The A320neos can't be delivered because there are major problems with the engine, there are cooling problems which apparently lead to overheating. P&W expects to find a solution until the middle of the year.

So a six month delay on one of the engine options becomes a major problem.

Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
The A350 production ramp-up is going very slow because their are problems with the delivery chain (sounds like a "smaller" 787 outsourcing problem). But sadly they don't share any details with us.

To quote BAconBtty, comedy gold. The ramp up is going to plan. Deliveries are behind due to seat & lav delivery issues, but don't let those facts get in the way of some good old mud slinging.

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
And apparently Airbus failed to control their suppliers like Boeing did when the 787 was developed. Of course on a smaller scale...

Is it an Airbus issue. Do you know how the contracts are split? If the airlines have separate contracts in place and paid the interior and engine suppliers direct, which is becoming more common, at what point does it become the airline supplier issue rather than an Airbus supplier issue?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Well Boeing is blamed everytime one of their suppliers messes up, so sauce for the goose and all that...

I don't think anyone is blaming Boeing for the Zodiac issues, if they are, then...................Same thing applies to Airbus surely or does it turn into a major problem on this side of the Atlantic.

Quoting Polot (Reply 7):
Yes, especially since the core issue (Zodaic being unable to supply seats and other interior fittings on time) is also affecting Boeing.

  

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:32 am
by PanHAM
In case of the A400M charges by the ordering states would back fire. The governments and the parliaments that approved the purchases only with numrous conditions that are now the core of the Problem would actually have to sue themselves.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:41 am
by Ruscoe
Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 22):
So a six month delay on one of the engine options becomes a major problem.

Yes, and for proof look at their first qtr profits (or lack of them). and their cash position. All that inventory lying around instead of Euro in the bank.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 22):
To quote BAconBtty, comedy gold. The ramp up is going to plan. Deliveries are behind due to seat & lav delivery issues, but don't let those facts get in the way of some good old mud slinging.

The facts are that it is almost entirely Airbus fault because they gave the suppliers an impossible task, and the suppliers were quite vocal in that regard.

350 also has thrust reverser problems, which are significant, and may hold things up while they are redesigned. I believe they must be replaced by a new design within 750 hours TT.

Ruscoe

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:50 am
by seahawk
Quoting art (Reply 20):
Do these guys not have to compensate the OEM or the buyer?

We can be sure that Zodiac and P&W will have to carry a lot of the consequences. Especially Zodiac will be hit hard imho, considering that Airbus went public with quite a harsh critique.

Btw which OEM won the contract for the airspace cabin on the A330NEO?

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:01 am
by enzo011
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Well Boeing is blamed everytime one of their suppliers messes up, so sauce for the goose and all that...

Does anyone remember the engines being late on the 787? Luckily for the suppliers Boeing were even more delayed than they were, so lets not forget that new engines have a history about being late on new programs.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
350 also has thrust reverser problems, which are significant, and may hold things up while they are redesigned. I believe they must be replaced by a new design within 750 hours TT.

Do you have a source for this, I cannot find anything about this?

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:25 am
by speedbored
Quoting enzo011 (Reply 26):
Do you have a source for this, I cannot find anything about this?
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-modified-after-lock-flaw-424290/
It's an issue that has a fix available, which is already on new production aircraft, and must be retrofitted to in-service aircraft within 750 hours.

Given the small in-service fleet, it seems to be a pretty minor issue to me - just one of the normal teething issues that arise on all new aircraft programs in the first few years of service.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:42 am
by enzo011
Quoting speedbored (Reply 27):
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-modified-after-lock-flaw-424290/
It's an issue that has a fix available, which is already on new production aircraft, and must be retrofitted to in-service aircraft within 750 hours.

Given the small in-service fleet, it seems to be a pretty minor issue to me - just one of the normal teething issues that arise on all new aircraft programs in the first few years of service.

Thanks, true about the in service aircraft. Seems the "slow" ramp-up is actually helping Airbus in this case. Maybe this is the way to go instead of having 100 aircraft already in service. That would be a bigger problem, not a major one at any stretch, certainly not major with less than 30 in service and the fix already being done in production.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:43 am
by packsonflight
Quoting Finn350 (Reply 18):
Having a structural design issue in the wing-body join is a major problem. Having the plane grounded due to a battery design issue is a major problem. I am not sure having late deliveries for toilet doors qualifies as a major problem (and I don't see them qualified as major in the news piece quoted either).

Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that the 787 delay was because Alcoa was late with the fasteners...

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:54 am
by StTim
There were many reasons for the 787 delay. It is unfair to blame a single supplier. So for instance when fasteners were produced they were not being delivered in the right quantities to different suppliers. So some had more than they needed. Some were short.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:30 am
by Thunderboltdrgn
Quoting enzo011 (Reply 28):
Thanks, true about the in service aircraft. Seems the "slow" ramp-up
is actually helping Airbus in this case. Maybe this is the way to go instead of having 100 aircraft
already in service.

I don't have a link at the moment, but IIRC the Airbus philosophy with the A350 was a slow ramp
up and then fix any problems when they arise instead of, as you say, have hundreds of built aircraft
that needs to be re-worked/re-modified.

Sure there are some issues with the A350 production due to lack of seats and etc but the aircraft
itself seems to work very well with a very high in-service reliability.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:00 am
by rheinwaldner
IMO the thread title is misleading, "major problems" is not the right word to describe the situation at least for the two mentioned civilian programs...

I bet BBD and Boeing would love to have "only" those problems...

Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
So please, all fanboyism for Airbus or Boeing aside, Airbus has a problem with all three programs.

Beside the 777 family, there is probably not a single program in the last 20 years, which did not have some problems...

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:28 am
by rbavfan
Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
Fact: the airplanes are late, the customers unhappy. Read Lufthansas comments about A320neo deliveries and the first delivered plane.

Could you possibly put a link the this story as I did searches on a.net & the internet and find no such story. If your going to quote something specific put a link to it.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:49 am
by Tancrede
Quoting Finn350 (Reply 18):
Having a structural design issue in the wing-body join is a major problem. Having the plane grounded due to a battery design issue is a major problem. I am not sure having late deliveries for toilet doors qualifies as a major problem (and I don't see them qualified as major in the news piece quoted either).

I fully agree about that statement. The whole "Major problems" is completly exaggerate. The title of this post should be rewrite as it is misleading as at first I though that those programs were facing "major" structural issues.

[Edited 2016-04-29 03:52:35]

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:08 pm
by Finn350
Quoting packsonflight (Reply 29):
Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that the 787 delay was because Alcoa was late with the fasteners...

Yes, but there is a quite big difference whether the late component is needed in the very beginning or in the very end of the assembly...

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:24 pm
by breiz
Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
And apparently Airbus failed to control their suppliers like Boeing did when the 787 was developed. Of course on a smaller scale...

It depends of course what you put in the meaning of "control", but at the yearly conference earlier this year, Bregier said:
"The company wanted suppliers that "do the job" and while this was the case for 99 percent, there were occasionally some which failed to live up to this.
Last year it was clearly Zodiac. We expect they will manage to do a lot better this year, especially as A350 deliveries are linked to their performance on lavatories and seats.... And yes, it is a message, but they know it already."
Is that "control" enough for you?

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:40 pm
by airbazar
Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
If I buy a iPhone and it doesn't work I don't care if Apple has a problem with one of their memory suppliers in China. I bought an Apple product, it is Apples fault for me. For the airlines it is Airbus fault, too. They should have controlled their suppliers better in the development and testing stages of each aircraft program.

That's an incorrect comparison. Airlines buy the engines from the engine manufacturer not from the airplane maker. You buy your iPhone and everything in it from Apple. Regardless of whose fault it is, it's not good publicity for either.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:13 pm
by bigbird
Where does Airbus store all of the undelivered planes. I would assume that LDE is one. I am sure that TLS and HAN have quite a few but the ramps must be getting full. There must be at least 25 to 30 A320 NEO s that have come off of the production line. There are also a number of A330s in storage also.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:32 pm
by zeke
A lot of the issues were disclosed by Airbus in a press release

http://www.airbusgroup.com/dam/asset...%20Group%20Q12016%20Results_EN.pdf

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:59 pm
by LH748
Did other airliners in the past (before 1990 or so) also experience major launching problems or is the advanced technology today more delicate?

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:04 pm
by Stitch
Quoting packsonflight (Reply 29):
Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that the 787 delay was because Alcoa was late with the fasteners...

Alcoa delivered fasteners per their production schedule. The issue was Boeing refused to accept that schedule and went with a production schema that assumed Alcoa would deliver fasteners sooner and in larger quantities than Alcoa said they could meet. So Boeing ended up waiting because they were ahead of the delivery schedule, not because Alcoa was behind the delivery schedule.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:07 pm
by EPA001
Quoting Stitch (Reply 41):
Alcoa delivered fasteners per their production schedule. The issue was Boeing refused to accept that schedule and went with a production schema that assumed Alcoa would deliver fasteners sooner and in larger quantities than Alcoa said they could meet. So Boeing ended up waiting because they were ahead of the delivery schedule, not because Alcoa was behind the delivery schedule.

That is my recollection of that issue too. Boeing was too ambitious at that time and probably assumed they could pressure Alcoa into a faster production scheme which turned out to be impossible.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:09 pm
by Polot
Quoting LH748 (Reply 40):
Did other airliners in the past (before 1990 or so) also experience major launching problems or is the advanced technology today more delicate?

Boeing had issues with PW and their engines with the 747 launch similar to Airbus and the A320neo, leading to a large backlog of 747s waiting for engines:

http://airchive.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/747-100-Plant-no-engine-1970-1024x784.jpg

I count 24 747s in the photo (although some have engines).

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:12 pm
by Stitch
Quoting LH748 (Reply 40):
Did other airliners in the past (before 1990 or so) also experience major launching problems or is the advanced technology today more delicate?
Quoting Polot (Reply 43):
Boeing had issues with PW and their engines with the 747 launch similar to Airbus and the A320neo, leading to a large backlog of 747s waiting for engines.

Pratt also stuffed the PW4098 for the 777-300 and the PW6000 for the A318-100, but not sure if those models experienced delivery delays due to engine issues or just performance misses.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:31 pm
by wingman
I wouldn't be too worried about the NEO or the 350, a "major" problem really only becomes "acute" or "catastrophic" when everyone starts realizing you'll never turn a profit on a program or it'll take 20 years to do so. I don't think the NEO or the 350 will be joining the 787 and the 380 at that table. And in 10-15 years the A400 will probably be the only modern Western transport in production, so even that program may save itself over a 40 year span. Though at some point Lock-Mart is bound to design a replacement for the 130 that the Pentagon will buy in 200 unit blocks.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:34 pm
by RandWkop
Quoting speedbored (Reply 27):
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):

750 cycles before replacement is required. Not 750 hours. There is a slight difference....

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:42 pm
by StTim
Read the press release and Airbus are certainly not hiding any of the issues. I would classify them as:

1 A350 - annoying, but this is also affecting my major competitor.
2 A320 - frustrating that such an issue not found earlier.
3 400M - Real concern as no fix in sight.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:57 pm
by pygmalion
Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
That's an incorrect comparison. Airlines buy the engines from the engine manufacturer not from the airplane maker. You buy your iPhone and everything in it from Apple. Regardless of whose fault it is, it's not good publicity for either.

Airlines "select" an engine supplier and galley/lav suppliers from an Airbus/Boeing list and they are included in the contract/purchase of the aircraft. There are some airline supplied equipment contractually installed by Airbus/Boeing But no one is buying engines direct from GE for a new build airplane.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 41):
Alcoa delivered fasteners per their production schedule. The issue was Boeing refused to accept that schedule and went with a production schema that assumed Alcoa would deliver fasteners sooner and in larger quantities than Alcoa said they could meet. So Boeing ended up waiting because they were ahead of the delivery schedule, not because Alcoa was behind the delivery schedule.

The sub tier suppliers were supposed to order and buy their own fasteners to build their sub assemblies. Normal fastener availibilty for new contracts is 60-72 weeks of lead time. Many of the suppliers failed to order on time and Boeing had to step in and manage the whole thing, including all ordering and contract initiation... Alcoa ended up not being able to ramp up fast enough.

RE: Airbus Major Problems With A320neo, A350 And A400M

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:28 pm
by Ncfc99
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
Yes, and for proof look at their first qtr profits (or lack of them). and their cash position. All that inventory lying around instead of Euro in the bank.

And when all that inventory delivers after the six month delay, we will see the profit figures looking good. Booking the profit in six months instead of now, annoying but hardly 'major'.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
The facts are that it is almost entirely Airbus fault because they gave the suppliers an impossible task, and the suppliers were quite vocal in that regard.

I would like to read more about this if you could provide some links?

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
350 also has thrust reverser problems, which are significant, and may hold things up while they are redesigned. I believe they must be replaced by a new design within 750 hours TT.

The 350 HAD thrust reverser problems. Already redesigned and being installed onto new production aircraft. I refer you to my previous post regarding mud................