Amsterdam
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KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:21 pm

KLM will start coming winter direct flights to Colombo in Sri Lanka and Miami in the USA.

Official announcement will be tomorrow, probably with schedule information.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuw...rechtstreeks-naar-colombo-en-miami
 
LJ
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting Amsterdam (Thread starter):
KLM will start coming winter direct flights to Colombo in Sri Lanka and Miami in the USA.

Make that restart for both destinations. Will be interesting how they'll do Colombo though (can't imagine nonstop).
 
upwardfacing
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:41 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 1):

I remember once asking about CMB (and MLE) and IIRC you suggested that they were better suited for an LCC like Arkefly.
 
paneuropean
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:49 pm

AMS Miami - 2 - 4 - -7 332
AMS Colombo - 2 - - - 6 - 789
 
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Miami
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:54 pm

Fantastic news.

Can't wait to see the Flying Dutchman back at MIA!
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
LJ
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 2):
I remember once asking about CMB (and MLE) and IIRC you suggested that they were better suited for an LCC like Arkefly.

I would agree, but MP is gone this is a former MP destination coming online again.

Quoting paneuropean (Reply 3):
AMS Miami - 2 - 4 - -7 332
AMS Colombo - 2 - - - 6 - 789

Seems more like a holiday charter schedule...not very competitive. Doesn't KLM know where to send its planes to anymore?
 
martinair50
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:27 pm

Good to see them back. I hope they will retain this route longer this time around. This is the third time they start flights to MIA!
 
vinaixa
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:31 pm

I´m surprised MIA has taken so long! We´ll see how it works out
 
aal0616
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:46 pm

Even more than three times.

Long ago, KLM flew from the Netherlands Antilles to Miami ... as far back as pre-WWII (DC-3 era)!

Then there was affiliate ALM ... then the KLM AMS-MIA attempts. Hope they stay this time.
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:52 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 5):

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 2):
I remember once asking about CMB (and MLE) and IIRC you suggested that they were better suited for an LCC like Arkefly.

I would agree, but MP is gone this is a former MP destination coming online again.

Both CMB and MIA have been KLM destinations for many years in the past.

MIA from both CUR and AMS, while CMB was the only stop on AMS-CMB-SYD, as well as a multi-stop DC8/DC10 to SIN.
 
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LH748
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:36 pm

YAY!
That's excellent news. Considering Arkefly's presence in Florida, I was always wondering if KL could not make MIA or MCO work. Glad to see the blue birds back at MIA.
306 310 318 319 320 321 333 343 388 ATR72 733 737 738 739 743 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 77W 788 CRJ7 CRJ9 E170 F100 MD11 RJ1H
AA AB AC AF AK AZ BA DE DL EW FD FR HF HG IB IR MF KU LH LT LX OD TG TK TP UA VJ VN WN W6 YP YW
 
OB1504
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:07 pm

Again? While I wish KL the best on AMS-MIA, I'm not optimistic.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:12 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
Again? While I wish KL the best on AMS-MIA, I'm not optimistic.

At 3x weekly in peak winter, apparently neither is KLM!
 
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Miami
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:20 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
Again? While I wish KL the best on AMS-MIA, I'm not optimistic.
Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 12):
At 3x weekly in peak winter, apparently neither is KLM!

Let it mature. They have "some" competition with TUI. So I'm not surprised.

TUI sees great loads on their AMS-SFB-MIA-AMS route. But I have a feeling KLM is going to boot them out since they will fly nonstop.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
dfwjim1
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 12:51 am

Good to hear that KLM is coming back to MIA and I believe they will do well this time.
 
OB1504
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 2:38 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 13):
TUI sees great loads on their AMS-SFB-MIA-AMS route. But I have a feeling KLM is going to boot them out since they will fly nonstop.

KL was already flying AMS-MIA when OR started their triangle route. If anything, OR gave KL the boot a few years ago.
 
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Miami
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 2:54 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 15):
KL was already flying AMS-MIA when OR started their triangle route. If anything, OR gave KL the boot a few years ago.

Won't be like that this time around.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
A388
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 3:37 am

Why is KLM sending brand new 787-9 aircraft to Colombo? How many European airlines fly to Colombo?


A388
 
atal17
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 3:59 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 17):

Austrian operates winter seasonal flights to Colombo. I assume a 789 is perfect for a long and thin route like Colombo.
 
727LOVER
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 4:08 am

I'm confused...why didn't we have a ton of KLM BACK IN MIA SOON threads....or pics of KLM people meeting with MIA officials

I must say, I'm disappointed it's not a 744.   But that's just me.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
76er
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 6:59 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
Can't wait to see the Flying Dutchman back at MIA!

The Flying Dutchmen have never really left, MP-Cargo and TUI are still here.



Quoting LJ (Reply 5):
Doesn't KLM know where to send its planes to anymore?

KL had changed its policy regarding opening new destinations, high freqencies are no longer a must from the outset. The shorthaul operation just opened a handful of destinations that are only served once a day.



Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 12):
peak winter

Peak winter in Florida, but low season in Europe.



Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
Why is KLM sending brand new 787-9 aircraft to Colombo

Last time KL stopped CMB, MP took over for a short while. All westbound flights on the then used 763ER were at max takeoff weight due to cargo. Perhaps that is one of te reasons KL chooses to use the 789 on this route. Having a superior businessclass seat compared to EK will also help. The A330 fleet still has the old style busninessclass and upgrade to lie flat is not scheduled to begin until 2017. For low yielding Florida it will have to do for now.



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
I'm disappointed it's not a 744

If you want to see a KL 747 at MIA, you still can. It just has "CARGO" painted on it and visits the Western U 5 nights a week.
 
paneuropean
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 1:34 pm

I don't understand why Miami has always been such a difficult market for KLM. All major European airlines fly to south Florida. I was expecting KLM to use a 74M however. Moreover I was hoping AA to start MIA- AMS to increase the presence in Amsterdam.
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 1:58 pm

Quoting paneuropean (Reply 21):
I don't understand why Miami has always been such a difficult market for KLM. All major European airlines fly to south Florida. I was expecting KLM to use a 74M however. Moreover I was hoping AA to start MIA- AMS to increase the presence in Amsterdam.

The answer is low yields ex. AMS, better suited to LCC type operations.
 
A388
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 2:06 pm

Quoting 76er (Reply 20):
Having a superior businessclass seat compared to EK will also help.

Okay but is this route so important that KL needs to put such a premium aircraft on that route?


A388
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 2:21 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
Okay but is this route so important that KL needs to put such a premium aircraft on that route?

A new aircraft does not make it premium, its interior configuration does.

As in all its aircraft, KLM operates Low C, High Y seating configurations in the B789 with close to 300 seats total.

B789 seating by airline:

- LA = 313 seats 30C/51Y+/232Y
- NZ = 302 seats 18C/21Y+/263Y
- AC = 298 seats 30C/21Y+/247Y
- KL = 294 seats 30C/48Y+/216Y
- VS = 264 seats 31C/35Y+/198Y
- UA = 252 seats 48C/88Y+/116Y
- EY = 231 seats 8F/28C/195Y
- BA = 216 seats 8F/42C/39Y+/127Y
 
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Miami
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 2:57 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
I'm confused...why didn't we have a ton of KLM BACK IN MIA SOON threads....or pics of KLM people meeting with MIA officials

   Very funny.

Quoting 76er (Reply 20):
The Flying Dutchmen have never really left, MP-Cargo and TUI are still here.

Fine.. The BLUE Flying Dutchman.

Quoting 76er (Reply 20):
If you want to see a KL 747 at MIA, you still can. It just has "CARGO" painted on it and visits the Western U 5 nights a week.

  
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 3:17 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 17):

Why is KLM sending brand new 787-9 aircraft to Colombo?

I hope your argument isn't that CMB is only deserving of older aircraft, or planes that aren't 787s or A350s.
Vahroone
 
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Miami
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 7:22 pm

eff 30OCT16 Amsterdam – Miami 3 weekly
KL627 AMS1520 – 1940MIA 332 247
KL628 MIA2135 – 1225+1AMS 332 247


eff 31OCT16 Amsterdam – Colombo 2 weekly
KL873 AMS1330 – 0350+1CMB 789 15
KL874 CMB0550 – 1220AMS 789 26


http://airlineroute.net/2016/05/01/kl-miacmb-w16/
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
A388
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 24):
new aircraft does not make it premium, its interior configuration does.

By premium I mean their new business class offering. Where do you get that I see brand new aircraft as premium aircraft?

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 26):
I hope your argument isn't that CMB is only deserving of older aircraft, or planes that aren't 787s or A350s

No I don't mean that.


A388
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 7:55 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 28):
By premium I mean their new business class offering.

KLM Business Class cabins by aircraft type:

- B744 = 35C seats flat beds
- B773 = 34C seats flat beds
- B772 = 34C seats flat beds
- B789 = 30C seats flat beds
- A333 = 30C seats angle-flat bed
- A332 = 30C seats angle flat bed

There is very little difference in premium seating in the KLM fleet.

So we must conclude that you meant to say that KLM should operate the A332/A333 to CMB, because these aircraft have an 'older' Business Class product.

Quoting A388 (Reply 28):
Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 26):
I hope your argument isn't that CMB is only deserving of older aircraft, or planes that aren't 787s or A350s

No I don't mean that.

So we conclude that you meant to say that CMB was only deserving of older Business Class cabins.
 
LJ
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 8:01 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 24):
A new aircraft does not make it premium, its interior configuration does.

None of KLs airplanes have a real premium confirguration. The maximum number of C-class seats is 35 and the 789 even have 48 Y+ which none of the other aircraft have. As such one can consider the 789 maybe more premium heavy than other aircraft in KLs fleet.
 
76er
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 8:20 pm

Interesting detail: The flight days to MIA (tuesday, thursday and sunday) are identical to the new Eurowings service from CGN that starts september 1st.
Prices start at 400€ roundtrip. Bloodbath.

[Edited 2016-05-01 13:23:41]
 
dfwjim1
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Sun May 01, 2016 8:32 pm

Quoting 76er (Reply 31):

Surprising, KLM does not have a Friday arrival in MIA to accommodate cruise ship departures on Saturday.
 
starbucks
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 8:15 am

Official KLM press release:
http://news.klm.com/klm-offers-custo...even-wider-choice-of-destinations/

Including some news on other Long Haul destination increases.
 
A388
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 11:53 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 29):
So we conclude that you meant to say that CMB was only deserving of older Business Class cabins.

What is your problem factsonly? Nowhere do I say this and you are looking at it this way so what's your issue? Have I hurt your feelings?

My only question was why KL would use the 787-9 their newest longhaul aircraft on a route that doesn't seem to have much competition so why doesn't KL use their brand new aircraft on routes that have more or intense competition? Have you read my post in reply 17?

Why are you turning this into this completely negative view?


A388

[Edited 2016-05-02 04:55:16]
 
Amsterdam
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 12:20 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 29):
we conclude that you meant to say that CMB was only deserving of older Business Class cabins.

A388's question is very valid. As KLM has just stated Colombo is a leisure route.
Leisure/business ratio voor Colombo is expectrd to be 90/10.
For Miami this is 60/40.


"De verhouding leisure/zakelijk ligt bij Miami op 60%/40%; bij Colombo gokken we op 90% leisure”.

Would not be strange at all to send an older product to an almost 100% leisure destination.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 12:32 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
Again? While I wish KL the best on AMS-MIA, I'm not optimistic.


I tend to agree, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and see how they do.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
At 3x weekly in peak winter, apparently neither is KLM!

Well, they had to start somewhere. I feel 3x weekly is fine for now. They will be able to get a feel from the early bookings and if the loads justify it, they might increase it to 4 or 5 weekly before it even starts.

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 14):
Good to hear that KLM is coming back to MIA and I believe they will do well this time.

They started MIA in 2011 only to quit a year later. What will they do different this time around to make the route stick? I don't know. The flight times are indentical, so that hasn't changed. What has changed are the days of operation. They initially started with x246 in 2011, and are now flying 247. Personally I find that worse than their schedule in 2011, because they are missing out on the costumers who can only fly on fridays or saturdays, and since this is a mostly leisure destination we are talking about, it's kind of important.

[Edited 2016-05-02 05:33:47]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SCQ83
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 12:47 pm

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 36):
They started MIA in 2011 only to quit a year later. What will they do different this time around to make the route stick? I don't know. The flight times are indentical, so that hasn't changed. What has changed are the days of operation. They initially started with x246 in 2011, and are now flying 247. Personally I find that worse than their schedule in 2011, because they are missing out on the costumers who can only fly on fridays or saturdays, and since this is a mostly leisure destination we are talking about, it's kind of important.

2011 was still not far away from the economic crisis of 2009. Miami has lately became much more of a global and upscale destination, the New York of the Caribbean. That can attract more business and leisure traffic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/re...ork-city-prices-in-miami.html?_r=0
 
Amsterdam
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 12:51 pm

KLM says of Miami that the big difference with last time is the A330 vs the MD11.
 
KFlyer
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 3:28 pm

I guess the use of 789 to CMB will be mostly to do with aircraft availability and aircraft performance. CMB is likely to have some good cargo demand ex/ into AMS. The 332 will likely be payload limited on this route, specially ex CMB.
The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
 
kevin
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 4:41 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 29):
So we conclude that you meant to say that CMB was only deserving of older Business Class cabins.

Why are you being so annoying? You and everyone else knows what he is trying to say.
Airlines tend to put new products on high-yielding, routes known to generate premium demand. CMB is not exactly known for that, but please do correct me if I am wrong
 
FSDan
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 4:42 pm

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 38):
KLM says of Miami that the big difference with last time is the A330 vs the MD11.

It seems like the 332 over the M11 will be a plus, but SK starting their own flights from OSL and CPH to MIA will be a minus. I don't remember if AY also started service since KL last pulled out, or if they were already flying HEL-MIA when KL jumped in a few years ago.

Either way, MIA definitely was a pretty big hole in KL's North American network. I'm glad they're giving it another shot.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
peanuts
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 5:35 pm

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 35):
For Miami this is 60/40

Ok...and for good measure: let's put our money where our mouth is: 3 times a week! lol
Those 40% will be running to KLM in droves! Not.

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 38):
KLM says of Miami that the big difference with last time is the A330 vs the MD11.

If they said that why didn't the JV fly it on a DL 767?

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 11):
I'm not optimistic.

Not until this route get's an official Delta blessing it will always be mediocre at best.
And by the time DL comes around, AA will jump right in. It's just too little too late. They were never committed in the past.
 
incitatus
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 7:03 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 22):
The answer is low yields ex. AMS, better suited to LCC type operations.

I thought KL is the low cost arm of AF/KL, no?  
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
LJ
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Mon May 02, 2016 7:31 pm

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 39):
I guess the use of 789 to CMB will be mostly to do with aircraft availability and aircraft performance. CMB is likely to have some good cargo demand ex/ into AMS. The 332 will likely be payload limited on this route, specially ex CMB.

I reckon you mean the 333 as CMB is not far for a 332 (and the 333 is capacity wise almost identical to the 789). However, with 4 A332s leaving this year they may not have many options.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 41):

It seems like the 332 over the M11 will be a plus,

You mean that it shows how much faith KL has in MIA (the A332 is now the smallest , has the least number of premium seats and doesn't have the new C-class..).
 
JRadier
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Tue May 03, 2016 7:23 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 12):
At 3x weekly in peak winter, apparently neither is KLM!

Keep in mind that while for Americans the Florida high season is winter, for most of Europe it's in summer (and god knows why with all those thunderstorms...)
 
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frigatebird
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Tue May 03, 2016 8:33 am

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 38):
KLM says of Miami that the big difference with last time is the A330 vs the MD11.

That's a funny thing to say considering they had the A330 in 2009 too!  
Quoting incitatus (Reply 43):
I thought KL is the low cost arm of AF/KL, no?

No. But AF is more focused on premium pax than KL.
Transavia (HV) is the LCC of the AF/KL group, although they operate only short haul flights.

Quoting LJ (Reply 44):
I reckon you mean the 333 as CMB is not far for a 332 (and the 333 is capacity wise almost identical to the 789). However, with 4 A332s leaving this year they may not have many options.

Correct, makes it a much weirder thing to say for KL that they have A330s now to operate the MIA route... But KL apparently intends to extend the leases of the remaining A332s though. Which is a wise decision, I couldn't really see the point of phasing out the A330 fleet so quickly, KL doesn't have enough planes on order to fully replace their whole 744 and A330 fleets anyway.

Quoting LJ (Reply 44):
Quoting FSDan (Reply 41):
It seems like the 332 over the M11 will be a plus,
You mean that it shows how much faith KL has in MIA (the A332 is now the smallest , has the least number of premium seats and doesn't have the new C-class..).

Exactly. The 787 C seats (1-2-1) look to be a lot better suited for a premium destination than the current A330 C seats (2-2-2).

Oh well, let's see if it lasts more than a year this time. Otherwise, KL may relaunch it again in 2018, saying the difference is the 789 vs the A332  
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Tue May 03, 2016 12:34 pm

Opening:

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
Okay but is this route so important that KL needs to put such a premium aircraft on that route?


A388

Challenged by:

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 26):
I hope your argument isn't that CMB is only deserving of older aircraft, or planes that aren't 787s or A350s.

Response:

Quoting A388 (Reply 28):
No I don't mean that.


A388

So excuse me, what do you mean?

Quoting A388 (Reply 28):
By premium I mean their new business class offering.

OK, so .......:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 29):
So we conclude that you meant to say that CMB was only deserving of older Business Class cabins.
Quoting A388 (Reply 34):
What is your problem factsonly?

No problem at all, just trying to make sense of your statements on A.net.

In recent weeks you complained that KLM neglected the CUR market as it received only 'OLD' aircraft. At that time we had to point out that CUR receives the same aircaft as JFK, TYO, PVG, YYZ, SFO, LAX, etc... and that CUR therefore keeps good company. So we conclude you judge airlines by aircraft age, not the product on offer!

Yet....now you express surprise that CMB is 'important' enough to get such a 'premium' aircraft. We ask you what you mean and you imply that this KLM destination is perhaps not 'important enough' for a ' NEW' Business Class. A business cabin that happens to be very similar to the KLM C class offering to CUR.

I beg your pardon, but you made a very unfortunate remark and you were rightly challenged on it.
 
A388
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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Tue May 03, 2016 2:54 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 47):
No problem at all, just trying to make sense of your statements on A.net.

Again factsonly, what is your problem? Now you bring another thread into this discussion that has nothing to do with this thread? You are looking for things or relations to my posts that are not there, why? Isn't my explanation enough? Why do you keep looking for other things that are not there?

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RE: KLM To Colombo And Miami

Tue May 03, 2016 4:34 pm

I believe KLM is set to remove 4 A332s from service this year. If so, will this play a factor in changing aircraft for MIA service?

They only have 9 at the moment.
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