Cubsrule
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DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 12:34 am

I had an odd experience on DL today and figured I would check in with the collective wisdom here on whether what I saw is new or an anomaly.

For some time, US used some sort of algorithm to compute the number of gate checked bags needed to avoid a situation with insufficient bin space and the need to check bags that had been taken aboard the aircraft and did not fit. US got pretty good at this, and toward the end of the US operation it was unusual to see much "planeside" checking on US mainline or the E-jets.

Today, I had a very pushy Delta agent announce 4 or 5 times that she needed "6 to 10 more bags" or she would need to check bags out of Group 2. When Group 2 boarding commenced, the agent randomly forced some passengers, but not others, to check bags. I think this was based on how far away one's final destination was, but it was not clear. The flight (a 712) left with bin space for probably 15 or 20 roller bags and a lot of angry passengers. The flight attendants, who were fantastic, were mystified; when I expressed my displeasure in the galley when I boarded, the f/a told me to get off the plane, grab my roller bag from the cart, and bring it aboard.

Is Delta trying something like the US approach to gate checking? I've had DL agents announce much more passively that they'd like to gate check some bags, and they are always very grateful to those who offer, but today was a whole new ballgame. FWIW, with passengers on full fare tickets potentially in Group 2 after May 16, what I saw today seems like a really bad customer service move if it represents a new policy.
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MIflyer12
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 12:48 am

I wouldn't try to generalize a company-wide rule or procedure from the behavior of one gate agent loading one flight.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 12:49 am

I don't know if it's new or not, but I witnessed the exact same thing on a DL flight (also a 717) at HOU on Sunday.
 
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illinoisman
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 12:52 am

All the more reason for the airlines to allow one free checked bag. On my trip ABQ a few weeks ago I was forced to gate check my bag at ORD, and when I picked up at the carousel there was a tear in the middle of it! I immediately took it to the DL baggage office and the person there said it was normal wear and tear and nothing could be done. I wasn't satisfied with that answer, so like a good millennial, I took it to Twitter (with pictures). They had me file a claim online, and once that happened my claim was resolved within a week to my satisfaction. DL is one of my preferred airlines and I'm glad they were able to quickly resolve this issue for me.
 
n7190jr
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 2:40 am

It has just as much to do with expediting the boarding process, as it does with overhead space. More bags you check, less people standing in the aisles. Also if an agent takes a delay because they didn't precheck enough bags, and that is determined as the root cause, the agent can get spoken to or even in repeat instances written up with a coaching. That's why they are on edge. D0 is a very big focus really right now at DL.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 5:41 am

This happened on 3/4 flights on my most recent DL trip. One was the domestic 763, which is forgivable because the overhead bin space really sucks to begin with. The other 2 had about half the space available in F and Y+ with 2/3 of coach full. The maddening thing is half the crap in the bins weren't even bags it was coats and purses that could've easily fit underneath. I think they just cut it off regardless of space somewhere in zone 2, or when they have a certain number boarded.
 
Prost
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 6:48 am

It would be so amazing if the agents and flight attendants could determine the EXACT amount of bags the plane will hold, and then each bag after that gets checked. It isn't always possible. Generally speaking, there is 35 minutes to board a domestic flight. DL is spending gobs of money to put in larger bins for more bags, but they aren't on all planes.

Please know this: no agent nor flight attendant wants to gate check your belongings. We want happy customers. At some point in time on full flights a determination will be made that 'we need to check all the roller boards.' Does that mean that maybe one or two won't fit? No. And we're truly sorry for the inconvenience. But hopefully your plane left on time, arrived on time, and you were able to track your luggage on the app.
 
coolian2
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 6:54 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 6):
Please know this: no agent nor flight attendant wants to gate check your belongings. We want happy customers. At some point in time on full flights a determination will be made that 'we need to check all the roller boards.' Does that mean that maybe one or two won't fit? No. And we're truly sorry for the inconvenience. But hopefully your plane left on time, arrived on time, and you were able to track your luggage on the app.

How can I board a full JQ flight, as one of the last people and have bin space? It's not charging, it's just insanity.
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Prost
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 6:56 am

Is it a plane full of Americans?
 
runway23
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 8:19 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 7):
How can I board a full JQ flight, as one of the last people and have bin space? It's not charging, it's just insanity.

Try flying in North America or Europe and you will see it is the norm. A full flight will pretty much always have gate checked baggage. This is valid for pretty much all carriers now.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 11:31 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 6):
Please know this: no agent nor flight attendant wants to gate check your belongings.

When the agent checks my bag but not the bag of the passenger in front of or behind me, why would I conclude anything other than that she wants to check my bag?

Again, I have no problem with a sensibly implemented gate checking regime. But the May 16 changes mean that Delta is saying to passengers like me "we don't care how expensive your ticket was. You may not carry on a bag without paying an upcharge (to Comfort +)."

I realize that loyal big spenders are more valuable than occasional big spenders, but a big part of the reason that I moved a large chunk of my flying to AA was that they treated me well even when I lacked status. It seems like a mistake because right now, I wouldn't dream of moving back to DL. The product in the air is great but the product on the ground is really inconsistent, and when my average stage length is only about 450 miles, the on the ground product matters.

Quoting Prost (Reply 6):
It would be so amazing if the agents and flight attendants could determine the EXACT amount of bags the plane will hold, and then each bag after that gets checked. It isn't always possible.

I think it's possible to get close with data. Again, US did it. Most of my DL trips start with BNA-ATL, so I know that route pretty well. Yesterday was a typically full flight with a typical bag mix. It left with an atypical amount of bin space.

Quoting n7190jr (Reply 4):
D0 is a very big focus really right now at DL.

D0 is essentially meaningless on the types of flights I take because of the near-constant metering into ATL. DL seems to set D0 at 15-18 minutes before a given flight's slot, so if a flight pushes on time or a little early a wait at the end of the runway is virtually inevitable.

My experience on full-ish short flights is that the biggest determinant of whether a flight gets out on time is how the crew handles PDBs and hanging jackets. Some crews skip it. Good crews get it done. Poor crews try (and fail) and then take a delay.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 5:03 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 6):
' Does that mean that maybe one or two won't fit? No. And we're truly sorry for the inconvenience. But hopefully your plane left on time, arrived on time, and you were able to track your luggage on the app.

My experience this last weekend was not 1 or 2 spots for bags, about half the plane had open bin space on two flights. Certain aircraft I get are harder/difficult and that's fine.
 
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tlecam
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 5:23 pm

Interesting experience. I can't say I've seen it but I wouldn't be surprised. I fly DL a lot (multiple 2+ legs per week most weeks) . There is definitely a trend for asking for volunteers to check bags. The usually advise that if you're in Group 2 or beyond, you run the risk of not having overhead bin space. However, they seem pretty nice about it and they try to make sure that the overhead bins are full.

Ironically, I have had the problem on AA/US where I don't have status and have been told to gate check my bag due to the algorithm, only to find plenty of overhead bin space. The FA rolled her eyes and whispered that she hates that algorithm and let me go get my bag off the jet bridge.
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iahcsr
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 5:29 pm

The goal with any airline is to not get more bags through the door than there are room for. Bag having to come off and be checked can cause a delay. Gate agents will ask people to vollenteer to check bags as they board to avoid this. Generally Involuntary tagging will happen if the bag is clearly oversized or one passenger has more than the allowed number of items. Also if the flight crew advises overheads are full then the last passengers to board are just out of luck. Still happens that bags have to come back out the door sometimes.
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thegoldenargosy
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 5:51 pm

I'm a former DL agent. I would ask for volunteers to check bags as soon as I opened the gate. I would check in with the FAs during boarding to see how bin space was going. Usually if we got 12-15 bags checked we were good on just about any a/c type. I did TDY in LGA, once on a 752 we checked 30 bags in the gate just from volunteers.
 
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compensateme
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 5:55 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Again, I have no problem with a sensibly implemented gate checking regime. But the May 16 changes mean that Delta is saying to passengers like me "we don't care how expensive your ticket was. You may not carry on a bag without paying an upcharge (to Comfort +)."

They've trialed this, and they've also trailed penalizing persons with carry-on baggage (excluding FC/C+ & Elites) to board last. I agree with you -- it sucks. I ponder how long it'll be before DL begins charging for carry-on baggage; NK can board a 218-seat A321 in 20 to 25 minutes whereas the boarding process on a 149-seat MD-88 can easily take an hour.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 6:03 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 12):
There is definitely a trend for asking for volunteers to check bags. The usually advise that if you're in Group 2 or beyond, you run the risk of not having overhead bin space. However, they seem pretty nice about it and they try to make sure that the overhead bins are full

This is the first time I have experienced that situation as most of the time enough people volunteer to have their bag checked. It irked me a little bit as I was running from a connecting flight and was last to board before standbys, my bag gets gate checked, when I boarded half the bins were open with space. Then the standbys boarded with their carry-ons taking some of the space. Just odd, and I hope it is not the new norm.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 15):
I ponder how long it'll be before DL begins charging for carry-on baggage; NK can board a 218-seat A321 in 20 to 25 minutes whereas the boarding process on a 149-seat MD-88 can easily take an hour.

I think it is coming. I'm betting they'll integrate it into E fares.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):

I don't know if it's new or not, but I witnessed the exact same thing on a DL flight (also a 717) at HOU on Sunday.

Just a guess, here, but maybe it has something to do with unfamiliarity with equipment. If the agents at HOU, in your case, were used to CRJs or other regionals, maybe once they changed to 717s things are different for them. I don't know how long they've had the different equipment, so maybe my theory is faulty.
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ozark1
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 6:35 pm

To me, the policy is all about agents not having to take a delay. As flight attendants, we are often perplexed by several empty bins on board after baggage has been gate checked. I am sure management has told them that they don't want the scenario of us running up the aisles with bags to be checked just before departure time. They would have to stand on jetbridge, scan them, tag them, and give back a claim check. This has happened rarely on flights I have worked. Usually cabin crew are very good at re arranging overhead items to make room. But look at DL'S on time completion rate. Perhaps that's the reason. So you get there on time but you have to go to baggage claim! Always give and take I suppose
 
deltaguy767
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 7:22 pm

I wonder if DL has conducted an analysis as to whether it would be more cost-effective to simply offer the 1 complimentary checked bag to all passengers (perhaps excluding E fares?) versus the current system. Would the time saved be greater than the marginal cost of additional baggage handling? Would average bag weight increase as travelers would use larger bags and carry more, knowing their bag does not need to fit in a bin, thus resulting in greater fuel consumption at the margin?

Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
The flight (a 712) left with bin space for probably 15 or 20 roller bags and a lot of angry passengers. The flight attendants, who were fantastic, were mystified; when I expressed my displeasure in the galley when I boarded, the f/a told me to get off the plane, grab my roller bag from the cart, and bring it aboard.

This is a scenario that can leave a bad taste in a passenger's mouth, especially if say they might be an elite rushing from a connecting flight. Perhaps this becomes alleviated somewhat when the larger capacity bins are rolled out, but that'll be a ways off before reaching critical mass and certainly not universal (MD90s, B712s).

Ultimately it comes down to customer service on the agent's part. If they are courteous and explain the rationale for the involuntary check (and note DL's 'bags in 20 min' commitment), they can minimize the heartburn. Data or real-time communication between the gate agent and cabin crew can help to better target the 'cutoff point' but there will always be a 'standard error' with a deference towards over checking versus under in an effort to push on time.
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flashmeister
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 7:35 pm

How do they handle situations where they want to check a bag that really can't or shouldn't be checked?

For example, if a bag has my medications in it, and they want to suddenly take it, there's no way that I'm going to gate check it. Do they really want me opening and rummaging through my carryon right there in the jetway? Same goes for my laptop bag: I simply won't check it. If they force me to, are they taking the damage liability?
 
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tlecam
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 7:55 pm

I think that some of this problem will reduce over time. I flew on a 319 with the new interior earlier this week. Those new bins can hold a lot of bags - every bag that I saw fit in length wise AND on its side. Double the amount of bags that fit overhead. It also really sped up the boarding process - no trying to jam the bag in.

Of course, on 717/MD80/90 and the regional jets, it's always going to be an issue.
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 8:00 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 21):
I think that some of this problem will reduce over time. I flew on a 319 with the new interior earlier this week. Those new bins can hold a lot of bags - every bag that I saw fit in length wise AND on its side. Double the amount of bags that fit overhead. It also really sped up the boarding process - no trying to jam the bag in.

That assumes people actually read the direction in the bin on how to place their bags in, which in my experience they don't.

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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 9:15 pm

All flight delays are "charged" to one department or another. You probably got an agent that was blamed for a flight delay due to unchecked bags. Unfortunately, discipline for these things is no laughing matter and she may have been scared into overreacting.

My apologies for the inconvenience and a pat on the back for the f/a that resolved the situation to your satisfaction. I have to say that had the agent involved seen the f/a over ride her decision it could have gotten ugly. Yet another sad story of twenty-first century air travel.
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Cubsrule
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Wed May 04, 2016 11:53 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 15):
They've trialed this, and they've also trailed penalizing persons with carry-on baggage (excluding FC/C+ & Elites) to board last. I agree with you -- it sucks.

The problem is that it can be very difficult to get into C+. When I checked in for a flight today, there was one C+ seat available, and it was a middle. No thanks. So, they have created a situation where it is virtually impossible for passengers who book last minute to carry on, regardless of fare class.

Quoting deltaguy767 (Reply 19):
If they are courteous and explain the rationale for the involuntary check (and note DL's 'bags in 20 min' commitment), they can minimize the heartburn.

Agreed, but there are some stations (ATL and LAX come immediately to mind) where the 20 minute commitment is a joke. If I'm going to an outstation, especially a smaller outstation, I'll often check at the gate because the time lost is minimal. If they are going to make me gate check because of my boarding zone, though, why not let me check the bag for free at the ticket counter if it meets carryon size requirements? That would speed up boarding even more.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 23):
My apologies for the inconvenience and a pat on the back for the f/a that resolved the situation to your satisfaction. I have to say that had the agent involved seen the f/a over ride her decision it could have gotten ugly.

I appreciate the apology, but it's wholly unnecessary. Your department behaved as they should have and as I expect. DL does not get enough credit for taking a f/a workforce that was inconsistent, classist and more than a little angry (NW) and a f/a workforce that was good but often not great (DL) and making a workforce that is great time after time and across bases (at least the bases I see a lot; my travel patterns mean that I don't see many LAX or SLC f/as).

Whoever got inflight in shape really needs to get to work on the ground experience, which can be pretty bad depending on where you are.
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mayor
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 1:51 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
Whoever got inflight in shape really needs to get to work on the ground experience, which can be pretty bad depending on where you are.

Probably because there's many more variations in the ACS workforce as far as who is working the gates, ramp, etc. than there is in inflight. That's true, it needs to be fixed but it may take longer than it took the F/As.
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aeroblogger
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:03 am

Has anybody tried buying excess valuation insurance when their bag is getting gate checked? DL is required by IATA agreements to offer it. If enough people do it, gate checking will cause more delays than not :p
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ckfred
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:04 am

I always hear the same announcement on AA. "Ladies and gentlemen, we have a full flight today. We would be happy to check your bag for free to your final destination. If you would like to check your bag, please see an agent at the desk."

To me, that is a great system, because it's getting bags out of the cabin with the idea that it's free. I actually know a few people who routinely work the system to get a free checked bag.

What really annoys people is when a person flies the same airline repeatedly, and some agents say that a bag is too big for the overhead, while others let the bag go into the cabin.

My wife flew ORD-EWR-ORD on UA last September, both flights with a 739. The agent at ORD didn't even give her back a second glance. At EWR, the agent made my wife put the bag in the sizer, decided it was too snug (it actually fit), and forced her to gate check it. Even when my wife said that the bag flight in the overhead on the flight to EWR, the agent suggested that the agent at ORD wasn't doing his job correctly.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
D0 is essentially meaningless on the types of flights I take because of the near-constant metering into ATL. DL seems to set D0 at 15-18 minutes before a given flight's slot, so if a flight pushes on time or a little early a wait at the end of the runway is virtually inevitable.

Unfortunately, while within a minute or two it's meaningless for the on time arrival, it means everything to the 2-3 layers of management above the gate agent you're dealing with.
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Cubsrule
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:38 am

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 28):
Unfortunately, while within a minute or two it's meaningless for the on time arrival, it means everything to the 2-3 layers of management above the gate agent you're dealing with.

I understand, but that's a management failure. They should set goals based on what matters to customers or what makes money, not what makes the managers feel good. D0 neither matters to customers nor makes the company money. A0 and A15 do.
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santi319
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:45 am

The solution here, its like European and foreign airlines, weight the carryon, if it exceeds the permissible weight in any given overhead, then you must check it. I believe most overhead bins have a placard stating the allowed capacity?? I'm 110% sure this is violated almost on every full-semi full US airline-flight.

[Edited 2016-05-04 19:49:20]
 
NWBOS
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:46 am

It has more to do with the amount of time left in the boarding process than the amount of space remaining. The agents need to make that more clear. Aircraft with narrow aisles are notorious for taking a long time to board when there is a high volume of carry on luggage. Agents are under a lot of pressure to get the flights out on time, and even if passengers take too long to stow luggage, or, the flight crew is being less than helpful in making sure small items are under seats and overhead space is optimized, the delay will easily become "their" delay, requiring endless reports and discussions with leaders. No one wants to deal with that, and despite what a lot of the traveling public may think, the agents really do want to get the flight out on time above all, so passengers can make their connections.
 
BAeRJ100
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:51 am

OP, not surprised by your story in the least. One time flying DL I connected from a 752 to a 763. Had no issues on the first flight with my quite small roller bag being able to fit under the seat in front of me with room to spare. Boarding the 763 was a completely different story, the gate agent refused to let it on solely for the fact that it was a roller bag and I was in a later boarding group. Didn't care about its size, the fact I had 24 hours of international travel ahead, nor that there were people taking multiple duffel bags and shopping bags much larger, and refused to believe it comfortably fit under the seat on the previous flight. The gate supervisor overheard and allowed me to board with it, and the plane that "had run out of overhead space" took off with, I'd say, at least a third of the overhead compartments completely empty. I've taken a backpack ever since, no matter how full I stuff it they only seem to care if it has wheels attached...

I completely get why it's done, I've seen people take some ridiculously large baggage into the cabin, but to make the people that abide by the rules (1 piece within the weight and size dimensions) pay the consequences isn't right IMO. I'm another advocate of AA's procedure.

[Edited 2016-05-04 19:53:13]
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dsuairptman
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 3:42 am

Some may say this is cynical, but I find it amusing how many people whine and cry about having to gate check. I've done it multiple times with no issues to report. So what's the real problem here? Sounds more like people that are upset they have to wait around on baggage claim, which interrupts their mobile lifestyle more than anything else.

If airlines were smart they would charge for carry ons and reduce or eliminate checked bag fees. I guarantee you would see a change in attitude about checking bags.
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alasizon
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 4:39 am

Gate Checking bags isn't just a matter of bin space, it is also about time. Certain markets have far more carry-ons than others and it takes time for passengers to stow them. The reason why it is encouraged at all airlines for the later groups is because later groups also mean more passengers have to get back out of their seats and block the aisle and because by then the overheads are "fuller".

All announcements include some item in there about removing medication, valuables and spare lithium batteries.

I personally can cram 50ish decently sized 22 inch roller bags into a CRJ-900 but I am not the one who wants to take easily a 10-15 minute delay to do so unless I absolutely must for W&B
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b727fa
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RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 6:57 am

Here's how it's supposed to happen:
Agent and FA huddle and discuss pax load and potential bag issues.
Generally ACS is fantastic at getting VOL checked bags (esp among those who've already checked a bag; going to bag claim anyway).
Super heavy flights FAs tend to be hyper-vigilant in squeezing bags in ( light loads counter-intuitively seem to fill up bins because FAs are "more forgiving.")
When bag space reaches 70%+/- or ~10-20 bags AVAIL to stow, we start to "invol" gate check. Usually the back-packs and duffle bags and god awful Vera Bradley bags fill the remaining space. When the aisle crew calls the front it's often, "10 more bags" or "no more through the door" meaning, "what's in the aisle will take us to capacity.
As has been suggested--sometimes ACS will start to "invol" gate check. USUALLY, it times out almost exactly to when we are calling for no more room; sometimes they jump the gun a bit. When we are behind the 8 ball, we will err on the side of gate checking to get out on time. Pax feedback is consistent: leave on time, get in on time--I'll get my bags at destination.
Delta doesn't "take" bags to be nasty--it adds to the cost of the flight. But it pays in spades to be on time and with bags at destination.

Not for nothing--once the bag is tagged, it's a TSA violation to remove the tag and/or board the bag in the cabin. Not going to argue that--you can go to www.tsa.gov for that. If ACS wants to pull off a tag and "clear" it from the system--have at it; it's not my employee number on it. But if it's tagged; it goes below in my book. Not going to lose my job over that.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8144
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 9:37 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 27):
I actually know a few people who routinely work the system to get a free checked bag.

I've done precisely that with United. I flew BOS-IAD-LAX-MEL with an extra bag that I wanted to check but wasn't prepared to pay for. BOS-IAD was on a CR7 so I knew that it would get gate tagged, and I knew that BOS-LAX was completely full so they would be offering to check for free during boarding. Et voila, an additional checked bag that I just had to cart to the gate myself at BOS and IAD.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 7):
How can I board a full JQ flight, as one of the last people and have bin space? It's not charging, it's just insanity.

What happens down here isn't comparable, for some reason passengers in Australia and New Zealand just seem to carry less baggage with them. I have never been on a domestic flight here where the overhead bins are full, and Qantas regularly commence boarding A330s at D-20. In the US you would struggle to board a CRJ in that time. It's just a totally different situation.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 14216
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 12:37 pm

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 33):
Some may say this is cynical, but I find it amusing how many people whine and cry about having to gate check. I've done it multiple times with no issues to report. So what's the real problem here? Sounds more like people that are upset they have to wait around on baggage claim, which interrupts their mobile lifestyle more than anything else.

I'll gladly gate check on the the right flight. Heck, on airlines where I don't have to pay for a bag I check probably 50-60 percent of the time. The reasons vary (very long connection, very short connection, outdoor deboarding of a regional aircraft in foul weather). But, when I am going to certain airports where checked bags take a very long time (LAX, ATL, DEN, etc.), I am a lot less likely to check.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 35):
Generally ACS is fantastic at getting VOL checked bags (esp among those who've already checked a bag; going to bag claim anyway).

The good ACS folks go out into the gate area and talk to passengers. Then, when passengers have a good reason not to check (an interline connection on two tickets might be a good example), that can be addressed.

Again, it seems like allowing a bag that meets carryon size requirements to be checked for free at the ticket counter might be the way to go.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 35):
Agent and FA huddle and discuss pax load and potential bag issues.

I can categorically state that this did not happen on my flight.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 12:40 pm

Quoting deltaguy767 (Reply 19):

I dont see that happening. If on-time was abysmal then maybe but it's not.

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 20):

No they are not liable if you did not purchase insurance. And of course if you chose to leave meds in your bags thats on you. Thats like the guy that will leave his car keys in his checked bag. Brilliant

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):

D0 matters for the sake of the operation. When you start taking delays on the outbound because "you can make up the time" or youre going to sit on the tarmac anyway then youre affecting the A0 of another flight. Point blank, D0 drives A14. That has been proven time and time again by every single airline I've worked for.
What gets measured gets done.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 14216
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 12:44 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 38):
Point blank, D0 drives A14. That has been proven time and time again by every single airline I've worked for.

D0 drives A14 if it is related to takeoff time. But when it's more like D10 driving takeoff time, that is what drives A14 because there is no difference between D-5, D0, D5 and D10 other than the fuel burn waiting for the slot.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2228
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 12:54 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
My experience on full-ish short flights is that the biggest determinant of whether a flight gets out on time is how the crew handles PDBs and hanging jackets. Some crews skip it. Good crews get it done. Poor crews try (and fail) and then take a delay.

Wow. How often does this happen to you? Never experienced the takeoff being delayed over a PDB. I have seen them not get to everyone for a PDB and I have sat with a PDB while we rocketed down the runway and the cup not picked up until they got up to start service, but never experienced a wait for takeoff because of service.

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 20):
How do they handle situations where they want to check a bag that really can't or shouldn't be checked?

Then you take the next flight if the bag can not be accommodated in the overhead or under the seat in front of you. Ask the drone guy.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 26):
Has anybody tried buying excess valuation insurance when their bag is getting gate checked?

Seen this. Guy causing a scene and demanding they write him insurance. They did. Plane left on time and he had to take the next flight. You may be entitled to extra insurance, but you have to fill out the paperwork and they do not have to hold the plane while you do it.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 14216
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 12:57 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 40):
Wow. How often does this happen to you?

Maybe twice in the last three years. It's pretty rare. Not getting it done (and once in a while not even starting) are far more common. Where the delay happens is usually during boarding, while they are doing the service, not right at the end.

[Edited 2016-05-05 06:07:32]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1486
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 1:07 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 22):
That assumes people actually read the direction in the bin on how to place their bags in, which in my experience they don't.

Haha you got that right. The poor FA nearly went hoarse repeatedly asking passengers to load the bag on its side. Even told people as they boarded taht these are new bins and they hold more bags, but you have to store them differently. There's a very large picture indicating how to store the bag too. People are creatures of habit.

Even with all that, the plane loaded quickly.I was impressed. There were no bags that had to go up front at the end either.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 40):
Wow. How often does this happen to you? Never experienced the takeoff being delayed over a PDB. I have seen them not get to everyone for a PDB and I have sat with a PDB while we rocketed down the runway and the cup not picked up until they got up to start service, but never experienced a wait for takeoff because of service.

Wow, that would be new to me. Under normal conditions, the crews are very good about PDB and coats. During IRROPs, they use their judgement on whether there's time, which is fine with me. I'd rather get up in the air.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
LAXtoATL
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:55 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 2:05 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
D0 drives A14 if it is related to takeoff time. But when it's more like D10 driving takeoff time, that is what drives A14 because there is no difference between D-5, D0, D5 and D10 other than the fuel burn waiting for the slot

I think you missed what he said.
D0 is not only tied to A0 of your flight, but it also affects the A0 of the flight that needs the gate you are blocking while your D0 turns into D5, D10 etc. Then guess what now the next flight is also behind schedule if it was scheduled for minimum turn time. This can create a snowball effect (with aircraft and connections) and destroy the entire operation. Unless it is an international departure, where the turns have more time built in, a delay on a single flight almost always affect another flight and often several flights and many passengers (even if it doesn't have a material affect on the original flight)
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2228
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 3:45 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 41):
Where the delay happens is usually during boarding, while they are doing the service, not right at the end.

Ahhh. Yes. That happens.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2459
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 4:09 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 9):
Try flying in North America or Europe and you will see it is the norm. A full flight will pretty much always have gate checked baggage. This is valid for pretty much all carriers now.

But why? NZ, JQ, TT all have bag only fares, where you pay extra for baggage. The difference is the bags don't even make it to the gate. Their checkin agents and kiosk agents, stop excess cabin baggage even getting through security. And any excess hand baggage is charged for at the gate, as it would be at checkin.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 30):

The solution here, its like European and foreign airlines, weight the carryon, if it exceeds the permissible weight in any given overhead, then you must check it. I believe most overhead bins have a placard stating the allowed capacity?? I'm 110% sure this is violated almost on every full-semi full US airline-flight.

Carry on is really only for what you need for the flight, not the week ahead. 1pc at 7kg, plus a slimline laptop bag weighing no more than 4kg is enough. Exceptions are parents with infants. Charge excess rates at the gate as you would at checkin. Boarding would be smoother and far more plessant, OTP would improve. And get rid of the rediculous group system for boarding. Special assist & families, priority then general.

I hate flying in the US simply for the nightmare boarding is, and it's a scrum and cattle call- all because of excess cabin baggage.
 
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flashmeister
Posts: 2685
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 4:21 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 40):
Then you take the next flight if the bag can not be accommodated in the overhead or under the seat in front of you. Ask the drone guy.

Fine, although Delta should be telling people not to put medications or valuables in their carry-on rollaboards then, or be perfectly fine with people opening their bags and rifling through them at the last minute. Right now, Delta's web page about carry-ons doesn't say anything about the increased possibility that a rollaboard will be suddenly and forcibly checked.

If I tell a gate agent that no, I won't check this bag (which fits the gate sizer, and which Delta said that I could bring on board when I bought the ticket) because it has medication in it, for example, are they really going to make me take the next flight? That seems absurd.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 5:26 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):

Difference in opinion. Every operational expert at every airline will say otherwise.
What gets measured gets done.
 
LAXtoATL
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:55 am

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 5:34 pm

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 46):
f I tell a gate agent that no, I won't check this bag (which fits the gate sizer, and which Delta said that I could bring on board when I bought the ticket) because it has medication in it, for example, are they really going to make me take the next flight? That seems absurd.

No. They will advise you to remove your medication, laptop, and any other valuables in your bag.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 14216
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: DL Gate Checking Changes?

Thu May 05, 2016 5:35 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 42):
Under normal conditions, the crews are very good about PDB and coats. During IRROPs, they use their judgement on whether there's time, which is fine with me. I'd rather get up in the air.

I think catering may also have to do with this. For a while, I was doing OKC-ATL a lot, mostly on M88s, and it seemed like they only served PDBs around half of the time, by far the worst ratio I have had on any route. ATL-OKC generally had PDBs. Perhaps in OKC they were concerned about running out of drinks given the shortage of galley space, the fairly long (for an M88) stage length and the round-trip catering from ATL.

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 43):
D0 is not only tied to A0 of your flight, but it also affects the A0 of the flight that needs the gate you are blocking while your D0 turns into D5, D10 etc.

. . . if there is another flight that needs the gate. But on the flights we are talking about (shorthauls to ATL), DL generally has significant excess gate space.

The issue is that D0 is being applied as a one-size-fits-all metric, and it probably is the best one-size-fits-all metric. Some sort of case by case analysis would be far better if it were feasible, though.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more

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