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American 767
Posts: 4454
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 14):
Of the 738 fleet alone 40% are painted, or an average of five aircraft/month (including new deliveries). That's pretty impressive in my view.

It's normal. Because 18 months ago, when the new livery was unveiled to the public, there were already a lot of 738 in the fleet. The 738 fleet hasn't grown a lot in the last 18 months. And I'm sure that in a couple of years from now you will see at least one of them still wearing the old livery.
Ben Soriano
 
miaami
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:11 am

Another 737-800 delivery today 6/3/14

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9701
 
rxapple
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:02 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:21 am

Quoting miaami (Reply 16):
Another 737-800 delivery today 6/3/14

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9701

N952NN
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:40 pm

Updated 6/4/14 Total in new paint 326 aircraft.

Canadair CRJ 200 (2/16) operated as American Eagle by Skywest
N492SW
N955SW

Canadair CRJ 200 (0/11) operated as American Eagle by Expressjet


Canadair CRJ 700 (38/47) operated as American Eagle by Envoy Air
N500AE 500
N501AE 501 currently being painted at AMA
N502AE 502
N504AE 504
N505AE 505
N506AE 506
N507AE 507
N508AE 508
N509AE 509
N510AE 510
N511AE 511
N512AE 512
N513AE 513
N514AE 514
N518AE 518
N519AE 519
N520DC 520
N522AE 522
N524AE 524
N525AE 525
N526EA 526
N528EG 528
N529EA 9EA
N531EG 531
N532EA 532
N533AE 3AE
N535EA 535
N536EA 6EA
N537EA 537
N538EG 8EG
N539EA 539
N540EG 0EG
N541EA 1EA
N542EA 542
N543EA 543
N544EA 544
N545PB 5PB
N546FF 546

Embraer ERJ 140 (0/57) operated as American Eagle by Envoy Air

Embraer ERJ 145 (25/118) operated as American Eagle by Envoy Air
N610AE 610
N611AE 611
N612AE 612
N613AE 613
N621AE 621
N629AE 629
N633AE 633
N635AE 635
N636AE 636
N638AE 638
N647AE 647 currently being painted at AMA
N651AE 651
N659AE 659
N665BC 665
N668HH 668
N673AE 673
N676AE 676
N686AE 686
N692AE 692
N695AE 695
N922AE 922
N925AE 925
N928AE 928
N939AE 939
N942LL 942

Embraer ERJ 175 (28/28) operated as American Eagle by Republic
N401YX A01
N402YX A02
N403YX A03
N404YX A04
N405YX A05
N406YX A06
N407YX A07
N408YX A08
N409YX A09
N410YX A10
N411YX A11
N412YX A12
N413YX A13
N414YX A14
N415YX A15
N416YX A16
N417YX A17
N418YX A18
N419YX A19
N420YX A20
N421YX A21
N422YX A22
N423YX A23
N424YX A24
N425YX A25
N426YX A26
N427YX A27
N428YX A28

Airbus A319 (17/17)
N8001N 001
N9002U 002
N93003 003
N9004F 004
N4005X 005
N9006 006
N5007E 007
N9008U 008
N8009T 009
N9010R 010
N9011P 011
N9012 012
N9013A 013
N3014R 014
N9015D 015
N9016 016
N9017P 017

Airbus A321T Transcon (17/17)
N101NN 783
N102NN 784
N103NN 785
N104NN 786
N105NN 787
N106NN 788
N107NN 789
N108NN 790
N109NN 791
N110NN 792
N111ZM 793
N112AN 794
N113AN 795
N114NN 796
N115NN 797
N116NN 798 Acceptance Check
N117NN 799

McDonnell Douglas MD80 (0/158) None will get paint

Boeing 737-800 (94/234)
N956AN 3CL
N963AN 3CU
N964AN 3CV
N965AN 3CW
N966AN 3CX
N967AN 3CY
N968AN 3DA
N969AN 3DB
N970AN 3DC
N971AN 3DD
N972AN 3DE
N973AN 3DF
N974AN 3DG
N975AN 3DH
N978AN 3DL
N980AN 3DN
N981AN 3DP
N982AN 3DR
N983AN 3DS
N987AN 3DT
N989AN 3DU
N991AN 3DW
N992AN 3DX
N801NN 3EA
N803NN 3EC
N804NN 3ED
N805NN 3EE
N807NN 3EG
N809NN 3EJ
N810NN 3EK
N811NN 3EL
N812NN 3EM
N813NN 3EN
N814NN 3EP
N815NN 3ER
N816NN 3ES
N817NN 3ET
N818NN 3EU
N819NN 3EV
N820NN 3EW
N821NN 3EX
N822NN 3EY
N823NN 3FA
N824NN 3FB
N825NN 3FC
N826NN 3FD
N827NN 3FE
N829NN 3FF
N830NN 3FG
N832NN 3FJ
N833NN 3FK
N835NN 3FM
N836NN 3FN
N837NN 3FP oneworld paint
N838NN 3FR oneworld paint
N839NN 3FS
N840NN 3FT
N841NN 3FU currently being painted at ROW
N894NN 3JD
N895NN 3JE
N896NN 3JF
N897NN 3JG
N908NN 3JT
N922NN 3KH
N923NN 3KJ
N924NN 3KK
N925NN 3KL
N926NN 3KM
N927NN 3KN
N928NN 3KP
N929NN 3KR
N930NN 3KS
N931NN 3KT
N932NN 3KU
N933NN 3KV
N934NN 3KW
N935NN 3KX
N936NN 3KY
N937NN 3LA
N938NN 3LB
N939NN 3LC AVOD
N940NN 3LD AVOD
N941NN 3LE AVOD
N942NN 3LF AVOD
N943NN 3LG AVOD
N944NN 3LH AVOD
N945NN 3LJ AVOD
N946NN 3LK AVOD
N947NN 3LL AVOD
N948NN 3LM AVOD
N949NN 3LN AVOD
N950NN 3LP AVOD
N951NN 3LR AVOD acceptance check
N953NN 3LT AVOD acceptance check

Boeing 757-200 (0/85)

Boeing 767-300 (35/58)
N342AN 342
N343AN 343 oneworld livery
N344AN 344
N345AN 345
N346AN 346
N347AN 347
N348AN 348
N349AN 349
N350AN 350 Retrofit Cabin
N366AA 366
N368AA 368
N369AA 369
N372AA 372
N373AA 373
N374AA 374
N7375A 375
N376AN 376
N378AN 378
N379AA 379
N380AN 380
N382AN 382
N383AN 383
N384AA 384
N385AM 385
N386AA 386
N387AM 387
N388AA 388
N389AA 389
N390AA 390
N391AA 391
N392AN 392
N393AN 393
N394AN 394
N395AN 395
N398AN 398

Boeing 777-200 (47/47)
N770AN 7AA
N771AN 7AB
N772AN 7AC
N773AN 7AD
N774AN 7AE
N775AN 7AF
N776AN 7AG
N777AN 7AH
N778AN 7AJ
N779AN 7AK
N780AN 7AL
N781AN 7AM
N782AN 7AN
N783AN 7AP
N784AN 7AR
N785AN 7AS
N786AN 7AT
N787AN 7AU
N788AN 7AV
N789AN 7AW
N790AN 7AX
N791AN 7AY oneworld livery
N792AN 7BA
N793AN 7BB
N794AN 7BC
N795AN 7BD
N796AN 7BE oneworld livery
N797AN 7BF
N798AN 7BG
N799AN 7BH
N750AN 7BJ
N751AN 7BK
N752AN 7BL
N753AN 7BM
N754AN 7BN
N755AN 7BP
N756AM 7BR
N757AN 7BS
N758AN 7BT
N759AN 7BU
N760AN 7BV
N761AJ 7BW
N762AN 7BX
N765AN 7BY
N766AN 7CA
N767AJ 7CB
N768AA 7CC

Boeing 777-300 (13/13)
N717AN 7LA
N718AN 7LB
N719AN 7LC
N720AN 7LD
N721AN 7LE
N722AN 7LF
N723AN 7LG
N724AN 7LH
N725AN 7LJ
N726AN 7LK
N727AN 7LL
N728AN 7LM
N729AN 7LN

US Airways

Airbus A319 (7/93)
N700UW 700
N701UW 701
N702UW 702
N703UW 703
N809AW 809
N814AW 814
N819AW 819

Airbus A320 (0/68)

Airbus A321 (1/96)
N579UW 579

Airbus A330-200 (0/14)

Airbus A330-300 (0/9)

Boeing 737-400 (0/12)

Boeing 757-200 (0/24)

Boeing 767-200 (0/8)

Embraer 190 (0/20)
Embraer 170/175 Republic (0/58)

Canadair CRJ200 PSA, Skywest, Air Wisconsin (0/116)
Canadair CRJ700 PSA (0/14)
Canadair CRJ900 Mesa, Skywest, PSA (2/52)
MESA N241LR
PSA Reg. UNK


deHavilland Dash 8 Piedmont (0/40)
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting rxapple (Reply 17):
Quoting miaami (Reply 16):
Another 737-800 delivery today 6/3/14

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9701

N952NN

N953NN, 952 is not yet delivered
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
rxapple
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:02 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 19):
N953NN, 952 is not yet delivered



Sorry, just giving the numbers per: http://boeing-test-flights.blogspot.com/
 
qfatwa
Posts: 571
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 1999 5:39 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:59 pm

Two unlisted CRJ700's are shown in photographs with new livery:

N515AE - http://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/...1/American-Eagle-Envoy/i-fJ9tDFc/A

N527EA - https://www.flickr.com/photos/md11forever/9737773084/

[Edited 2014-06-04 13:00:06]
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2195
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 18):
N501AE 501 currently being painted at AMA

Actually it's N501BG N501AE was already taken at the time the aircraft was manufactured.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
TUSAA
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:20 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:46 pm

The new 787's will be 8AA 8AB 8AC...etc...and I think the first A321H will be 850.
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:03 pm

Quoting CcrlR (Reply 22):
Actually it's N501BG N501AE was already taken at the time the aircraft was manufactured.

Thanks, I knew that too but forgot about it actually. I will change it next time.

Quoting qfatwa (Reply 21):
Two unlisted CRJ700's are shown in photographs with new livery:

N515AE - http://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/...1/American-Eagle-Envoy/i-fJ9tDFc/A

N527EA - https://www.flickr.com/photos/md11forever/9737773084/

Thanks, I don't know how I've missed a few but it did happen. I will get them added next update.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
LGA777
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:46 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:21 pm

DTW757 one minor correction to your awesome and appreciated list, the last two A-321T"s are actually N116AN and N117AN instead of NN.

Cheers

LGA777
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 253):
It's all speculation and conjecture.



Of course it is... it's a.net...this is a forum for discussion. Don't you think you have made posts with speculation or conjecture?
On this topic, it's virtually all speculation minus the few that work at AA.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 253):
The combined AA is scheduled to received 115 aircraft next year with only 47 lease expirations. In 2016, they have 84 receipts and only 15 expirations. Assuming most of those leases aren't going to be reupped and are probably on 757s and MD80s anyway, what do you think they're going to do with all of that excess capacity? This number also doesn't include owned aircraft that could potentially be retired as well, although I think most of AA's aircraft are financed.



FWIW, re-upping leases is irrelevant for the MD-80s. Most are owned and rest on dirt cheap long-term lease. Only about 1/4 of the current MD-80 fleet will have their leases expire during the projected three-year retirement period.

As for the extraordinary order book and delivery schedule, it will be interesting to see DP talk his way through justifying the massive debt and delivery schedule to shareholders at future IR conferences, (for aircraft of current engine technology no less), if AA's financials turn south again in the next 12-24 months. A few poor quarters in a row is all it'll take. And with the current debt that is owed, the combined carrier cannot sustain a negative cashflow.

I'm not saying for sure this WILL happen but it is the doomsday scenario that would throw a wrench into things. Remember, a few years ago DL announced the 31 D95s would be retired at the beginning of 2012... How'd that work out?  
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 26):
As for the extraordinary order book and delivery schedule, it will be interesting to see DP talk his way through justifying the massive debt and delivery schedule to shareholders at future IR conferences, (for aircraft of current engine technology no less), if AA's financials turn south again in the next 12-24 months.

But, as the 757s and MD-80s are retired, you will see lower maintenance costs, as well as lower fuel costs. Even current technology A320 family are more fuel efficient than the MD-80s.

Plus, AA should be better off, as the Embrear 140s retire and the 145 fleet is reduced in favor of the CRJs and Embrear 175s.

Lastly, with only 3 legacy carriers and 2 large LCCs (WN and B6), the industry will have pricing power that it didn't have a decade ago, when you had 6 legacy carriers, and FL was probably about the same size as B6.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:48 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 27):

But, as the 757s and MD-80s are retired, you will see lower maintenance costs, as well as lower fuel costs. Even current technology A320 family are more fuel efficient than the MD-80s.

Of course they are, that's a given.

Bigger picture: A NB starts the month behind at a $400k payment.... The MD-80s start at ZERO. So, the 738 or A319 need to make up $400k a month in MX and fuel before a net positive over the MD-80. Historically, aging MD-80 fleets have reasonable MX, so we're really talking the majority from fuel.

BTW, this is the analysis of DL concluded with. It has been acknowledged by the C-level that the MD-88 is among the most profitable types for this reason... Don't think investors pay attention when it's highlighted at the QBRs??? Like I said, if profits fall DP could have some explaining to do...  
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
UA444
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:04 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 26):

I'm not saying for sure this WILL happen but it is the doomsday scenario that would throw a wrench into things. Remember, a few years ago DL announced the 31 D95s would be retired at the beginning of 2012... How'd that work out?

Which is why this notion that certain members have that just because they are saying RIGHT NOW they will not paint the MD-80s doesn't mean things won't change. The retirement schedule is already pretty aggressive, probably too aggressive. The simply fact of the matter is that even with their higher fuel, many of the MD-80s still have useful life left and can be used profitably as DL has consistenly shown. It is not fiscally responsible for AA to just dump them for expensive new aircraft that come with expensive leases and financing.

I remember NW was not going to repaint the DC-10s in their new livery, well we ended up seeing 5 or 6 repainted. DL was never going to repaint the oldest 752s from NWA, yet many are still flying and in DL colors. And like you said, the D95 was to be gone in 2012. Then 2013. Then January 6. Then January 23, 2014.

Heck, Doug Parker himself said the repaints would be done by the beginning of 2016 for planes they intend to paint. Unless he plans a mass exodus of planes, they aren't going to get that accomplished since we are half way through 2014 and less than a handful of US A/C have been to a paint shop.

[Edited 2014-06-09 00:08:00]
 
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anfromme
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:55 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 29):
Which is why this notion that certain members have that just because they are saying RIGHT NOW they will not paint the MD-80s doesn't mean things won't change. The retirement schedule is already pretty aggressive, probably too aggressive.

Well, they have a pretty aggressive delivery schedule for A32S and 737s as well, and I would venture that a lot of planning went into planning MD-80 retirement alongside the delivery of new planes.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 29):
The simply fact of the matter is that even with their higher fuel, many of the MD-80s still have useful life left and can be used profitably as DL has consistenly shown.

True, but a) even DL's MD-80s have most of their useful lives behind them and b) DL are pretty unique in their use of the MD-80. They generally have a pretty unique fleet strategy, explicitly not going for MAX and NEO during their last round of narrowbody orders. Doesn't mean their fleet strategy works for everybody - and AA are certainly an example of an airline that neglected investment in their fleet far too long.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 29):
It is not fiscally responsible for AA to just dump them for expensive new aircraft that come with expensive leases and financing.

Well, it looks like that's exactly what they're doing, and from all that we've heard, their financing deals on the 737s and A32S (NG/MAX and CEO/NEO) were incredibly competitive and flexible.
So using those financing deals to start shedding a bunch of fuel guzzlers that are nearing 30 years of age seems like a pretty good and financially sound idea to me, to be honest.
Also, they surely have some efficiencies to be gained from the merger, i.e. AA may even be able to shed some of the MD-80s quicker than planned.
42
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3460
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:33 pm

Looks like the first PSA -900 is N574NN.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
bkircher
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:23 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:19 pm

Interesting tail number for sure, thats a mainline reg for American. Strange they decided to put it on a regional ac...
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 29):
Which is why this notion that certain members have that just because they are saying RIGHT NOW they will not paint the MD-80s doesn't mean things won't change.

I just can't seem to wrap my head around why you're absolutely adamant that they *will* change.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 28):
Historically, aging MD-80 fleets have reasonable MX, so we're really talking the majority from fuel.

I've heard quite the opposite from an AA line mechanic who's a buddy of mine.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
Doesn't mean their fleet strategy works for everybody - and AA are certainly an example of an airline that neglected investment in their fleet far too long.

Indeed. Retirement of the MD80 will be a long time coming as it'll be two generations behind by the time it finally leaves the fleet. What works for DL or UA doesn't necessarily work for AA and vice versa.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
So using those financing deals to start shedding a bunch of fuel guzzlers that are nearing 30 years of age seems like a pretty good and financially sound idea to me, to be honest.

I'm fairly certain the AA MD80 I was on this past weekend, a 1990 vintage bird, was older than several of the flight attendants. No exaggeration, either.
PHX based
 
rj777
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:36 pm

Anybody wanna guess what thread part we'll be on before we see a 757 and/or an A330 in the new paint?
 
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American 767
Posts: 4454
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:39 am

Quoting rj777 (Reply 34):
Anybody wanna guess what thread part we'll be on before we see a 757 and/or an A330 in the new paint?

Not before part 8, I would guess. Because I feel that in the whole of part 7 (we are in part 6 now), there 'll be zillions of replies like

"when is the first 757 due to be repainted?"
"first 757 in new paint soon"
"what wait so long after the new livery was unveiled?"
"when will the first A330 be painted?"
"MD-80 fleet now down to less than 150, still none to be repainted?"
And someone will ask "Why no MD-80 in new colors?"
"can't wait to see it"
"looking forward to see it"
"Any ERJ-140 yet repainted?"

etc...

Plus all the replies following the regular updates from our hard working friend dtw757.
Ben Soriano
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:08 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 35):
"MD-80 fleet now down to less than 150, still none to be repainted?"
And someone will ask "Why no MD-80 in new colors?"

And then someone else will chime in, "The MD80s are going to be here forever because Delta says so, they will all be repainted!"

Quoting rj777 (Reply 34):
Anybody wanna guess what thread part we'll be on before we see a 757 and/or an A330 in the new paint?

I don't think we'll see a 757 repainted. Period. It's somewhat telling that nearly all of the PMAA international aircraft* have been repainted save for the 757s and the half of the 763 fleet that reportedly has a finite life span.

*For the sake of discussion, I'm not including 738s that fly routes to Canada, Mexico and the Carribean, since the bulk of the 738 fleet flies domestically.
PHX based
 
UA444
Posts: 2785
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 33):
I just can't seem to wrap my head around why you're absolutely adamant that they *will* change.
Quoting 777stl (Reply 36):
I don't think we'll see a 757 repainted. Period. It's somewhat telling that nearly all of the PMAA international aircraft* have been repainted save for the 757s and the half of the 763 fleet that reportedly has a finite life span.

I can't seem to wrap my head why you're so adamant that they'll stick to everything they say now, regardless of how things change tomorrow, and you know this industry changes quick. You also believe they will repaint no 757s, when US and AA have some of the newest ones of the line that have no replacements, specifically the TATL ones. And going by what they haven't painted yet isn't very good science. When UA introduced their new livery in 2004, it took over a year before they repainted any of the A319s, 767s, and 747s.
 
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anfromme
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:25 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 37):
I can't seem to wrap my head why you're so adamant that they'll stick to everything they say now, regardless of how things change tomorrow

You're going into the other extreme, to be honest - you're adamant they are going to change, and that current plans are effectively null and void.
For what it's worth - AA have a plan for MD-80 retirement, and by that plan, it's unlikely we'll ever see any MD-80s repainted in their new colours. Never say never, of course, but I'm not holding my breath.
Sure, plans can change depending on circumstances, but I don't see too many scenarios in which AA would be forced to keep the MD-80s on longer than planned; I for one think that all of AA's narrowbody fleet purchase financing deals falling through (thus forcing them to keep MD-80s longer than planned) is a much less likely scenario than fuel prices continuing to rise.

Mind you, I've got no horse in this race - I've no particular like/dislike of the MD-80, but from all we've seen, AA have decided on a strategy of retiring their MDs. I simply cannot see an event on the horizon that would lead them to abandon that strategy, given the huge amount of orders they have, plus the huge 737/A320 fleet they have after the merger.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 37):
You also believe they will repaint no 757s, when US and AA have some of the newest ones of the line that have no replacements, specifically the TATL ones.

Personally, I think there's a slight chance they may repaint some 757s, to be honest. They have a good bunch of them, and as you state, some of them are relatively young. We haven't really heard anything official on a definite date for 757 retirement, either.
42
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:03 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 29):
It is not fiscally responsible for AA to just dump them for expensive new aircraft that come with expensive leases and financing.



I would agree with the last 50-100 frames, especially. A 2019-2020 retirement would have eased the burden. There's no doubt the fleet needed to be reduced from 200-300. But keeping an active fleet of 75-100 paid-off frames for shorter legs would have been a more efficient use of CAPEX through decade-end. Especially if they were all centralized out of DFW, with only select ORD and STL frequencies being the exception.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
a) even DL's MD-80s have most of their useful lives behind them



That's not true. DL's oldest MD-88s are in the 60k cycle ballpark. Younger frames have thousands less. DL's MD-88s are certified for 110k cycles.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
Well, it looks like that's exactly what they're doing, and from all that we've heard, their financing deals on the 737s and A32S (NG/MAX and CEO/NEO) were incredibly competitive and flexible.
.



A lot of CEO's last 5-7 years, maybe 10 if they're lucky. DP is going to ride it out if possible, and let the enormous debt be someone else's problem. But like I said, a few bad quarters in a row and that massive delivery schedule will see it's share of deferrals real quick.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
So using those financing deals to start shedding a bunch of fuel guzzlers that are nearing 30 years of age seems like a pretty good and financially sound idea to me, to be honest



Actually, we're largely talking abour replacing aircraft of 14-21 years old, which is the portion of the fleet that has had it's retirements accelerated. Aircraft that could technically operate well past 30 years, however.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 33):
I've heard quite the opposite from an AA line mechanic who's a buddy of mine.



Compared to a brand-new 738 or A319, sure. And from my own data mining over the past year, it does not seem AA has been quite as good at handling MX costs as DL has with the MD-88/90. But nonetheless, DOT Form 41 data would indicate your buddy may have embellished a bit.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 33):
What works for DL or UA doesn't necessarily work for AA and vice versa.



Maybe so. But with the virtual oligopoly the legacies have created as a result of the mergers, that mindset becomes less legit and more cliche. Between the three carriers, the mission, vision, and overall organizational business strategies are not much different. And don't assume investors are not involved with more than one carrier, and thus scrutinizing variances in strategy. As you know, Capex, debt, cash flow, fleet planning etc are all under the microscope at QBR events and IR conf.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 30):
and from all that we've heard, their financing deals on the 737s and A32S (NG/MAX and CEO/NEO) were incredibly competitive and flexible.

AA received a very beneficial financing deal, but I believe DP has converted options to be purchased outright for cash, bypassing the leases. In any event, the financing has a potential draw-back. As I understand it, it is not linear through the entire delivery schedule and is fairly conditional. So there is some risk if AA re-enters the red.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 36):
And then someone else will chime in, "The MD80s are going to be here forever because Delta says so, they will all be repainted!"

LOL. GMAB. Comparing the strategies of the two carriers and their respective financials is in context with the fleet discussion.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 38):
but I don't see too many scenarios in which AA would be forced to keep the MD-80s on longer than planned;

As I have been saying, it's all in the financials. It may be unlikely in the opinion of some, but in a Capitalistic for-profit society, it should not be hard to see or understand. As long as AA has consistent profitability over the next 36 months and debt is paid down, then you are right - the MD-80 retirement will likely go as planned.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 38):
plus the huge 737/A320 fleet they have after the merger.

Some of these aircraft will need replacing too. Dozens of 738/A320s are longer in the tooth than the youngest 30-40 MD-83s.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
Sinlock
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:49 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 39):
Dozens of 738/A320s are longer in the tooth than the youngest 30-40 MD-83s.

Once the last of the 9 ex-Braniff A320's are gone from the fleet later this year there will only be one 320 older than the youngest MD-80.
That's N644AW that joined the fleet in 1996 but first flew in 1992, I'd expect it to also be leaving the fleet soon as it will be the only -A1 engined aircraft in the fleet.
 
NASBWI
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:15 pm

This might seem like a "noob" (and slightly off-topic) question, but is there a way to tell (ie - registration perhaps) which 737s have the sky interior? That is, besides the obvious new deliveries. Perhaps all the -37s with registrations ending in -NN?
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
SXDFC
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:32 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 41):

I believe N867NN was the first 738 to get the Sky Interior. So any -800 with the regi N867NN+ have it.
 
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ORL777
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 42):
I believe N867NN was the first 738 to get the Sky Interior. So any -800 with the regi N867NN+ have it.

The first AA with BSI was N868NN

Saludos
 
777STL
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:50 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 37):
I can't seem to wrap my head why you're so adamant that they'll stick to everything they say now, regardless of how things change tomorrow, and you know this industry changes quick

I'm going to go with a true statement at the moment rather than what basically amounts to a conspiracy theory. At any rate, let's assume you're right and they do keep some of them for a longer period of time. That doesn't automatically mean they're going to be repainted. If some of them hold out six months longer than expected, for example, they still won't be repainted. It's not as if AA is going to have a change of heart some day in 2017 and randomly decide to start repainting MD80s.

quote=UA444,reply=37] You also believe they will repaint no 757s, when US and AA have some of the newest ones of the line that have no replacements, specifically the TATL ones.[/quote]

That's a bit of a controversial statement on my part, granted, but I'm not confident they will be repainted. There are a myriad of potential replacement options for the Hawaii 757 fleet and the 75Ls.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 39):
Compared to a brand-new 738 or A319, sure. And from my own data mining over the past year, it does not seem AA has been quite as good at handling MX costs as DL has with the MD-88/90.
But nonetheless, DOT Form 41 data would indicate your buddy may have embellished a bit.

I hate "my buddy told me this" stories as much as the next guy on here, but without revealing too much, he's not a fan of them - and it's the primary equipment he works on.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 39):
As I have been saying, it's all in the financials. It may be unlikely in the opinion of some, but in a Capitalistic for-profit society, it should not be hard to see or understand. As long as AA has consistent profitability over the next 36 months and debt is paid down, then you are right - the MD-80 retirement will likely go as planned.

I see many shiny, new jets in AA's future and not much real expansion to speak of until this merger has been fully effected. Those MD80s will have to go somewhere.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 39):
Some of these aircraft will need replacing too. Dozens of 738/A320s are longer in the tooth than the youngest 30-40 MD-83s.

That might be a bit overdramatic. There are only 24 or so 738s in AA's fleet that are older than the youngest MD80, delivered at the end of 1999.
PHX based
 
mountainwest90
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:46 am

YV got it's next CRJ900 in new colors. Friend says it's N242LR but should be able to confirm myself tomorrow.
 
SXDFC
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:40 am

Quoting ORL777 (Reply 43):
The first AA with BSI was N868NN

Thanks for the correction Orlando!

Here is a computer generated image of an AA MD80 in the new colors... IMHO looks like a giant RJ..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/volrider/TMd37.jpg
 
Dtw757
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:05 pm

Updated 6/12/2014

Painting looks to have slowed for the summer travel season. An ERJ was just finished and currently only a CR7 is in for paint. A new 738 will be delivered as well as another 319.

Total 333 aircraft


Canadair CRJ 200 (2/16) operated as American Eagle by Skywest
N492SW
N955SW

Canadair CRJ 200 (0/11) operated as American Eagle by Expressjet


Canadair CRJ 700 (41/47) operated as American Eagle by Envoy Air
N500AE 500
N501BG 501
N502AE 502
N504AE 504
N505AE 505
N506AE 506
N507AE 507
N508AE 508
N509AE 509
N510AE 510
N511AE 511
N512AE 512
N513AE 513
N514AE 514
N515AE 515
N518AE 518
N519AE 519
N520DC 520
N521AE 521 currently being painted at AMA
N522AE 522
N524AE 524
N525AE 525
N526EA 526
N527EA 527
N528EG 528
N529EA 9EA
N531EG 531
N532EA 532
N533AE 3AE
N535EA 535
N536EA 6EA
N537EA 537
N538EG 8EG
N539EA 539
N540EG 0EG
N541EA 1EA
N542EA 542
N543EA 543
N544EA 544
N545PB 5PB
N546FF 546

Embraer ERJ 140 (0/55) operated as American Eagle by Envoy Air

Embraer ERJ 145 (26/118) operated as American Eagle by Envoy Air
N610AE 610
N611AE 611
N612AE 612
N613AE 613
N621AE 621
N629AE 629
N633AE 633
N635AE 635
N636AE 636
N638AE 638
N647AE 647
N651AE 651
N659AE 659
N665BC 665
N668HH 668
N673AE 673
N676AE 676
N686AE 686
N692AE 692
N695AE 695
N906AE 906
N922AE 922
N925AE 925
N928AE 928
N939AE 939
N942LL 942

Embraer ERJ 175 (28/28) operated as American Eagle by Republic
N401YX A01
N402YX A02
N403YX A03
N404YX A04
N405YX A05
N406YX A06
N407YX A07
N408YX A08
N409YX A09
N410YX A10
N411YX A11
N412YX A12
N413YX A13
N414YX A14
N415YX A15
N416YX A16
N417YX A17
N418YX A18
N419YX A19
N420YX A20
N421YX A21
N422YX A22
N423YX A23
N424YX A24
N425YX A25
N426YX A26
N427YX A27
N428YX A28

Airbus A319 (18/18)
N8001N 001
N9002U 002
N93003 003
N9004F 004
N4005X 005
N9006 006
N5007E 007
N9008U 008
N8009T 009
N9010R 010
N9011P 011
N9012 012
N9013A 013
N3014R 014
N9015D 015
N9016 016
N9017P 017
N9109F 019 delivery soon


Airbus A321T Transcon (17/17)
N101NN 783
N102NN 784
N103NN 785
N104NN 786
N105NN 787
N106NN 788
N107NN 789
N108NN 790
N109NN 791
N110NN 792
N111ZM 793
N112AN 794
N113AN 795
N114NN 796
N115NN 797
N116NN 798
N117NN 799

McDonnell Douglas MD80 (0/158) None will get paint

Boeing 737-800 (95/235)
N956AN 3CL
N963AN 3CU
N964AN 3CV
N965AN 3CW
N966AN 3CX
N967AN 3CY
N968AN 3DA
N969AN 3DB
N970AN 3DC
N971AN 3DD
N972AN 3DE
N973AN 3DF
N974AN 3DG
N975AN 3DH
N978AN 3DL
N980AN 3DN
N981AN 3DP
N982AN 3DR
N983AN 3DS
N987AN 3DT
N989AN 3DU
N991AN 3DW
N992AN 3DX
N801NN 3EA
N803NN 3EC
N804NN 3ED
N805NN 3EE
N807NN 3EG
N809NN 3EJ
N810NN 3EK
N811NN 3EL
N812NN 3EM
N813NN 3EN
N814NN 3EP
N815NN 3ER
N816NN 3ES
N817NN 3ET
N818NN 3EU
N819NN 3EV
N820NN 3EW
N821NN 3EX
N822NN 3EY
N823NN 3FA
N824NN 3FB
N825NN 3FC
N826NN 3FD
N827NN 3FE
N829NN 3FF
N830NN 3FG
N832NN 3FJ
N833NN 3FK
N835NN 3FM
N836NN 3FN
N837NN 3FP oneworld paint
N838NN 3FR oneworld paint
N839NN 3FS
N840NN 3FT
N841NN 3FU
N894NN 3JD BSI
N895NN 3JE BSI
N896NN 3JF BSI
N897NN 3JG BSI
N908NN 3JT BSI
N922NN 3KH BSI
N923NN 3KJ BSI
N924NN 3KK BSI
N925NN 3KL BSI
N926NN 3KM BSI
N927NN 3KN BSI
N928NN 3KP BSI
N929NN 3KR BSI
N930NN 3KS BSI
N931NN 3KT BSI
N932NN 3KU BSI
N933NN 3KV BSI
N934NN 3KW BSI
N935NN 3KX BSI
N936NN 3KY BSI
N937NN 3LA BSI
N938NN 3LB BSI
N939NN 3LC BSI AVOD
N940NN 3LD BSI AVOD
N941NN 3LE BSI AVOD
N942NN 3LF BSI AVOD
N943NN 3LG BSI AVOD
N944NN 3LH BSI AVOD
N945NN 3LJ BSI AVOD
N946NN 3LK BSI AVOD
N947NN 3LL BSI AVOD
N948NN 3LM BSI AVOD
N949NN 3LN BSI AVOD
N950NN 3LP BSI AVOD
N951NN 3LR BSI AVOD
N952NN 3LS BSI AVOD acceptance check
N953NN 3LT BSI AVOD acceptance check

Boeing 757-200 (0/85)

Boeing 767-300 (35/58)
N342AN 342
N343AN 343 oneworld livery
N344AN 344
N345AN 345
N346AN 346
N347AN 347
N348AN 348
N349AN 349
N350AN 350 Retrofit Cabin
N366AA 366
N368AA 368
N369AA 369
N372AA 372
N373AA 373
N374AA 374
N7375A 375
N376AN 376
N378AN 378
N379AA 379
N380AN 380
N382AN 382
N383AN 383
N384AA 384
N385AM 385
N386AA 386
N387AM 387
N388AA 388
N389AA 389
N390AA 390
N391AA 391
N392AN 392
N393AN 393
N394AN 394
N395AN 395
N398AN 398

Boeing 777-200 (47/47)
N770AN 7AA
N771AN 7AB
N772AN 7AC
N773AN 7AD
N774AN 7AE
N775AN 7AF
N776AN 7AG
N777AN 7AH
N778AN 7AJ
N779AN 7AK
N780AN 7AL
N781AN 7AM
N782AN 7AN
N783AN 7AP
N784AN 7AR
N785AN 7AS
N786AN 7AT
N787AN 7AU
N788AN 7AV
N789AN 7AW
N790AN 7AX
N791AN 7AY oneworld livery
N792AN 7BA
N793AN 7BB
N794AN 7BC
N795AN 7BD
N796AN 7BE oneworld livery
N797AN 7BF
N798AN 7BG
N799AN 7BH
N750AN 7BJ
N751AN 7BK
N752AN 7BL
N753AN 7BM
N754AN 7BN
N755AN 7BP
N756AM 7BR
N757AN 7BS
N758AN 7BT
N759AN 7BU
N760AN 7BV
N761AJ 7BW
N762AN 7BX
N765AN 7BY
N766AN 7CA
N767AJ 7CB
N768AA 7CC

Boeing 777-300 (13/13)
N717AN 7LA
N718AN 7LB
N719AN 7LC
N720AN 7LD
N721AN 7LE
N722AN 7LF
N723AN 7LG
N724AN 7LH
N725AN 7LJ
N726AN 7LK
N727AN 7LL
N728AN 7LM
N729AN 7LN

US Airways

Airbus A319 (7/93)
N700UW 700
N701UW 701
N702UW 702
N703UW 703
N809AW 809
N814AW 814
N819AW 819

Airbus A320 (0/68)

Airbus A321 (1/96)
N579UW 579

Airbus A330-200 (0/14)

Airbus A330-300 (0/9)

Boeing 737-400 (0/12)

Boeing 757-200 (0/24)

Boeing 767-200 (0/8)

Embraer 190 (0/20)
Embraer 170/175 Republic (0/58)

Canadair CRJ200 PSA, Skywest, Air Wisconsin (0/116)
Canadair CRJ700 PSA (0/14)
Canadair CRJ900 Mesa, Skywest, PSA (3/52)
MESA N241LR
MESA N242LR
PSA N574NN (1/1)


deHavilland Dash 8 Piedmont (0/40)
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
Dtw757
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:06 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 42):
I believe N867NN was the first 738 to get the Sky Interior.

That is a correct statement. N867NN or 3GY was the first delivered with Boeing Sky Intereior
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
miaami
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:17 pm

Another 737 went to ROW on Jun 11 for new paint.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9635
 
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WALmsp
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:34 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 46):
Here is a computer generated image of an AA MD80 in the new colors... IMHO looks like a giant RJ..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/volrider/TMd37.jpg

I think the scheme looks good on the Mad Dog. Hope to see it in real-life, but not likely  
In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
 
RyDawg82
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:40 pm

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 47):
N9109F 019 delivery soon

Should this be N9019F?

Thanks for your hard work as always!
Ryan
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:26 am

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 40):
Once the last of the 9 ex-Braniff A320's are gone from the fleet later this year there will only be one 320 older than the youngest MD-80.

Can you validate that with tail numbers? I know a few of the original HP frames were retired too, but I believe the large majority are still active. Per planespotters.net, about 40 legacy HP and 12 US A320s are active with AA, which are all older than AA's youngest MD-83s. If you are claiming that all but one A320 is younger than 12/1999, than we have quite a discrepancy in our data...

Quoting 777stl (Reply 44):
he's not a fan of them - and it's the primary equipment he works on.

Wouldn't be the first time, but that's not here nor there. Ask him, did he ever work on the A300 or F100? Or my beloved 727-200 in it's twilight years? No embellishment required there.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 44):
not much real expansion to speak of until this merger has been fully effected. Those MD80s will have to go somewhere.

Yes, DL's parts supply most likely. Maybe a few remain active with small US and European charters, or carriers in Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East. There have also been some MD-80s converted to freighters as of late.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 44):
That might be a bit overdramatic. There are only 24 or so 738s in AA's fleet that are older than the youngest MD80, delivered at the end of 1999.

Really? Ok, 24 738s + 52 A320s = 76 aircraft. 76 = dozens.  
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
Sinlock
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:47 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 52):
Can you validate that with tail numbers? I know a few of the original HP frames were retired too, but I believe the large majority are still active. Per planespotters.net, about 40 legacy HP and 12 US A320s are active with AA, which are all older than AA's youngest MD-83s. If you are claiming that all but one A320 is younger than 12/1999, than we have quite a discrepancy in our data...

From my source 620AW,621AW,622AW,624AW,625AW,626AW,631AW,633AW,637AW. Are leaving the fleet this year. These are all powered by V2500-A1 engines and cause payload restrictions in H/H conditions. I can't confirm 644AW, but it is the only other -A1 in the fleet even though it's a younger aircraft than the Braniff birds.

I stand corrected as for the others. I was only paying attention to the year of delivery and not the month. Once I looked at the month the list grew quickly.

I find it a bit tedious arguing the merits of MD-80's at the end of line production v.s. 737-800's at the beginning of line production.
 
777STL
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 52):
Really? Ok, 24 738s + 52 A320s = 76 aircraft. 76 = dozens.

Hey, if you guys are going to pick apart every little thing I say, I'm going to do the same. The bulk of the 738 fleet is significantly younger than the MD80 fleet. It just seems a tad disingenuous to say there's multiple dozens of 738s out there older than "30-40 of the MD80s" when the truth is that there's only a handful of them older than AA's youngest MD80s.
PHX based
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:33 am

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 53):
From my source 620AW,621AW,622AW,624AW,625AW,626AW,631AW,633AW,637AW. Are leaving the fleet this year.



But they haven't yet. And as such, future A32X/738 delivery slots will need to be used up on these frames and others to replace the capacity.

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 53):
I stand corrected as for the others. I was only paying attention to the year of delivery and not the month. Once I looked at the month the list grew quickly.



It is still 30 frames if you only want to count frames that were delivered before 1999. Many from the early/mid '90s. Regardless, due to certified limits and historical wear and tear, an A320 of equal age can certainly be argued as more "aged" than any DC-9 decendent.

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 53):
I find it a bit tedious arguing the merits of MD-80's at the end of line production v.s. 737-800's at the beginning of line production.



The point from above is that some of the older A32X/738s will eventually need replacing too. And like it or not, several of these aircraft are older than youngest batch of MD-83s. You questioned, but now it's established. These are just the facts.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 54):

Hey, if you guys are going to pick apart every little thing I say, I'm going to do the same.



"Yeah, but... yeah, but..."  
Quoting 777stl (Reply 54):
The bulk of the 738 fleet is significantly younger than the MD80 fleet.



That's correct. But that wasn't up for debate. Let's recap: You noted the delivery schedule as the certainty that the MD-80s will all be retired. I noted that dozens of A32X/738s may be up for retirement sooner than later as well, and are older than the youngest MD-83s. You questioned, so we reviewed the facts. This may or may not effect the MD-80 retirement, but the point is true.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:22 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 46):


IMHO looks like a giant RJ..

Considering it's family tree, that's basically what it is.  
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
777STL
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RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 55):
Let's recap: You noted the delivery schedule as the certainty that the MD-80s will all be retired.

I never said it was a certainty, it is however a logical deduction. Dozens of new aircraft incoming + the natural reduction in redundancies and synergization that comes with a consolidation = no home for old aircraft, i.e. MD80s.

But wait, that's all bullshit, right? Doug Parker has no idea what he's talking about, all of those new aircraft are going to be delayed, and AA is going to be flying the repainted MD80s into the 2030s, amiright?

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 55):

"Yeah, but... yeah, but..."

It's nothing personal, but that's part of the reason I detest this website. It's full of nothing but virginal adolescents that have nothing better to do than argue semantics and pick apart everything one says.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 55):
I noted that dozens of A32X/738s may be up for retirement sooner than later as well, and are older than the youngest MD-83s.

As long as we're talking out of our asses here, it's a fairly large assumption to assume older 738s and some of the younger, turn of the century era, non-Braniff A320s are on their way out simply because of age. AA on the other hand has publicly stated they have a gameplan to dispose of the MD80s, which will be two generations behind by the time they completely leave the fleet.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 55):
You questioned, so we reviewed the facts

You mean we reviewed your speculation on the matter, which is somehow more valid than my speculation. Yeah, no.
PHX based
 
ckfred
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 28):
Historically, aging MD-80 fleets have reasonable MX, so we're really talking the majority from fuel.

Actually, the MX costs on the MD-80s are getting higher and higher. My last few MD-80 flights have beed delayed due to tech issues.

According to a friend of mine who is an AA captain, the intervals between B, C, and D checks on the MD-80s are shorter than other aircraft types. One of the reasons why the 727 stuck around as long as it did, despite having 3 engines and an F/E was that the maintenance intervals were greater than the MD-80.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 28):
The MD-80s start at ZERO.

But how many have been fully depreciated and have been sold and leased back? Many of the MD-80s are being leased. Granted, the lease rates on an MD-80 are lower than a brand new A319 or 738. But, you can't say that ownership costs are zero.

Further, the A319 has a greater range, as does the 738. The MD-80 can't fly much beyond ORD-West Coast, and it can be weight restricted, if weather is requiring an alternate some distance from the destination airport.

What AA is preparing for is the potential for another major spike in fuel prices. If oil hadn't run up like it did in '07 and '08, AA would have been much slower in putting in the 738 order. We're just one Middle East crisis away from oil going back to $150 a barrel or higher.
 
miaami
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:38 pm

Another 737 back from new paint

N842NN / 3FV

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9652
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:59 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 57):
But wait, that's all bullshit, right? Doug Parker has no idea what he's talking about, all of those new aircraft are going to be delayed, and AA is going to be flying the repainted MD80s into the 2030s, amiright?

No reason to display immaturity, this is a healthy debate don't turn it into a pissing contest. Now regarding your above comment, gave you been reading my posts closely? See below..

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 55):
This may or may not effect the MD-80 retirement
Quoting 777stl (Reply 57):
As long as we're talking out of our asses here,

Whoa...? And there goes your credibility like a led balloon...   

Quoting 777stl (Reply 57):
It's full of nothing but virginal adolescents that have nothing better to do than argue semantics and pick apart everything one says.

Based on your profile (and behavior) I can only deduce that you are talking in third person here. Man-up and debate like an adult. It's a DISCUSSION FORUM.  
Quoting 777stl (Reply 57):
your speculation on the matter, which is somehow more valid than my speculation. Yeah, no.

Yeah, sure. Put 20+ years in and then tell me everything I need to know. But your speculation on hamburger flipping beats mine any day of the week.  
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:27 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 58):
Actually, the MX costs on the MD-80s are getting higher and higher. My last few MD-80 flights have beed delayed due to tech issues.

I had an MX delay last year. My first since god knows when. The plane needed a pitot tube replaced. YOM 1987, what are you going to do? That said, even a couple inconvenient MX delays cannot substantiate costs as getting "higher and higher" as undisputed fact.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 58):
According to a friend of mine who is an AA captain, the intervals between B, C, and D checks on the MD-80s are shorter than other aircraft types. One of the reasons why the 727 stuck around as long as it did, despite having 3 engines and an F/E was that the maintenance intervals were greater than the MD-80.

I love the 727 arguably as much as any NB airliner ever built; and I never worked for Boeing (pre '97). I'm not disputing the interval times at AA, as I truly don't know. But the fuel, maintenance, and overall operating costs of the 727 in 2000 compared to the MD-80 today are not even close. Heck, they weren't even close in 1984 when we were drafting the landmark 67+100 order.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 58):
If oil hadn't run up like it did in '07 and '08, AA would have been much slower in putting in the 738 order.

Yes, and AA were also holding out for Y1 from Boeing. Which unfortunately will need to wait another generation now.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 58):
The MD-80 can't fly much beyond ORD-West Coast

Not disputing your points or validation of ordering the A319/738. But you must find it ironic that most of the remaining ORD MD-80 missions are 2-3.5 hours in length.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 58):
Granted, the lease rates on an MD-80 are lower than a brand new A319 or 738. But, you can't say that ownership costs are zero.

I can tell you're quite AA-centric, which is fine. But you should take notice of what the CEO is saying in ATL to better understand and expand your viewpoint.

Quote:
"MD-80s still even at pretty high fuel prices start the month out at no debt," said Anderson at Delta's recent investor day. "A 737-800 costs about $350,000 to $375,000 a month. So on the first day of the month it is $375,000 behind just on ownership."

The carrier's chief also claims that the maintenance costs on the MD-80 are lower than the 737-800 and crew costs are not quite as high. "So the economics on the MD-80 are still good at $90 fuel prices because of basic economics, and we are regularly sort of looking at that side by side," he says.
Delta chief executive touts MD-80 cost advantage
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
EXMEMWIDGET
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:25 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:27 pm

This question may have already been asked on this thread, so please forgive me if it has been so. Will the heritage/retro painted aircraft of US be going away? How about the NFL logo aircraft? I would hope that the merged AA/US would keep them and maybe add some retro AA/Reno Air/AirCal liveries to the mix.
Ex DL and NW, current FX.
 
User avatar
FedExFlyerPHL
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 11:15 pm

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:12 pm

I think it was mentioned that the heritage planes are staying and in fact TWA is in the pipeline to get done. I think I also heard about AirCal. A lot of people were asking about Reno Air, but I'm not sure if that was confirmed or not./

Jeff
Home base: SNA, LGB, LAX
 
jetsetterusa
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:13 am

RE: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 6

Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting FedExFlyerPHL (Reply 63):

I think it was mentioned that the heritage planes are staying and in fact TWA is in the pipeline to get done. I think I also heard about AirCal. A lot of people were asking about Reno Air, but I'm not sure if that was confirmed or not./

Jeff

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