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Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Fri May 06, 2016 6:34 am

Please continue the discussion from the previous thread here.

Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 1 (by oykie May 2 2016 in Civil Aviation)
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Fri May 06, 2016 6:50 am

from rheinwaldner in the previous thread.
So the 7.5 is the 8, shrunk to the length of the 7 + row?


Southwest went to 31" pitch and slim seating to get to 143pax in the 73G.

A shrink of the MAX8 would get them back to 32"/33" in 150pax. The WN MAX7.5 at 150pax would have the same level of comfort as the WN MAX8 at 175pax. That restoration of comfort will be appreciated if the MAX7.5 is to be the plane that gets WN to Brazil, Argentina or Chile.  
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sat May 07, 2016 6:42 am

A larger 737-9 max? Can you get bigger engines on the already low to the ground plane the 737 is? The stubby little landing gear can't help. The current 737-900's take almost the entire runway to get off the ground already. They really need a new clean sheet design for an aircraft between the 150-230 seat mark.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sat May 07, 2016 7:10 am

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 2):

Hi Beatyair, part 1 discusses this article, in which Boeing confirms they are looking into doing a bigger -7, as well as looking at a potential model larger than the -9Max. In part one there have been many suggestions on how to make it larger.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ew-of-two-737-max-variants-424861/
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sat May 07, 2016 12:55 pm

A slight stretch of the 737 MAX 7 is probably being seriously considered right now, probably at the request of both WN and number of other airlines. It will likely happen, because WN will get the slightly stretched 737 MAX 7 to replace all the 733''s and the oldest 73G's in the WN fleet, in my opinion.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sat May 07, 2016 1:02 pm

If Boeing makes a MAX -7.5 with 150 passengers, I expect WN would probably order at least 500 to replace all of the -700's over time. That alone makes it worth Boeing's time to build that model.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 6:13 am

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 5):
If Boeing makes a MAX -7.5 with 150 passengers, I expect WN would probably order at least 500 to replace all of the -700's over time. That alone makes it worth Boeing's time to build that model.

Sounds reasonable and indeed likely.

However I was also musing about the -7MAX and the -9MAX;
it seems the -9MAX will go ahead even if the 737-10MAX appears over the horizon; those few hundred orders for the -9MAX are firm and the problem with the sales Vs the A321 seems to lie in the poor field-performance leading to a lack of operational flexibility.
So for those airlines with the firm orders, they know the route-structure that they want the new type to do and the field-performance is not a factor, so allowing the (apparently) excellent CASM to come into play.
So for those airlines, their -9MAX orders are for real and very serious, independent of whether the 737-10MAX comes along or not.

LS is adamant that the -7MAX using the 737-700 cabin will be a (commercial) failure.
So there is a very good chance that it will not appear; however I can't help but wonder if there are -7MAX orders which are equally serious in the same way as the -9MAX orders that I discuss above.
(Bit Like Hawaiian with the A350-800).
And the -7MAX would seem a very cheap development, as these things go.

If so, it is at least a little possible that we will see the 737 family go on to the:
-7MAX
-7.5MAX
-8MAX
-9MAX
and, finally
-10MAX

(!!)

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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 8:17 am

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 5):
If Boeing makes a MAX -7.5 with 150 passengers, I expect WN would probably order at least 500 to replace all of the -700's over time. That alone makes it worth Boeing's time to build that model.

The question is what WN would order to replace the 700 without the 7.5MAX? You are right, if WN would order the NEO instead...
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 9:15 am

If Boeing can stretch only the forward fuselage section of the MAX 9, rotation angle on takeoff should remain the same as on current 9ER and tail-heavy issues would be less, me thinks. Or is that unrealistic?
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 9:18 am

Would give rise to a lot of flight dynamics changes.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 9:33 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
If Boeing can stretch only the forward fuselage section of the MAX 9, rotation angle on takeoff should remain the same as on current 9ER and tail-heavy issues would be less, me thinks. Or is that unrealistic?

You need to be able to get the aircraft to begin rotation though and with all that length in front of the center of lift this may be an issue.

There was much discussion in part 1 of the 737 aproaching 707 length / span and the changes in the wing that has been attached to the P8, I came accross this picture on instagram this morning that illustrates both points as well as how far wing design as come in 60 years.

http://instagram.fper1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/13129881_507151459474764_1511403792_n.jpg
BV
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 11:16 am

Adding grist to this thread's mill:

AerCap who has 100 737 MAX on order is pushing Boeing to a larger 737-9 MAX:

"If weight, capacity and range meets our expectations, then we would be interested by a new version of the 737-9 MAX".

Article in French here:

http://www.air-cosmos.com/boeing-737...s-versions-plus-performantes-72225
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 12:10 pm

Quoting ro1960 (Reply 11):

Oh, so somebody who has purchased 737-9 would be interested if Boeing can build a 737-9 with the capabilities of a A321neo, no shit..

NEWSFLASH ~~~~ Boeing cannot do this.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 1:10 pm

Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 7):
The question is what WN would order to replace the 700 without the 7.5MAX?

Considering the number of a/c WN has in it's fleet that would need replacement, what would one expect Boeing to do, they had a product initially and WN purchased hundreds, now when they are coming up for replacement Boeing had nothing in the house?
I suspect if they have to they will invent something 
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 1:27 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 10):
There was much discussion in part 1 of the 737 aproaching 707 length / span and the changes in the wing that has been attached to the P8, I came accross this picture on instagram this morning that illustrates both points as well as how far wing design as come in 60 years.

Yep there's a remarkable difference in the wing and horizontal stabilizers. Easy to see the relation though, the fuselage is nearly the same. But grandpa's got twice the CFM-56s.   Great picture.

Regarding the P-8, since it's got different wings than the 737 NG and MAX, as well as a different centre fuselage/wing box area.. wouldn't that be something that could be built upon when stretching the -9? The 737 lego box has got so many parts to choose from now.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Sun May 08, 2016 1:47 pm

Could WN be considering an E+ type product that would be installed with a 150 seat 7.5 that would keep slimline 31" in Y and allow something like 35-36" in E+? 5" more pitch removes one row for every seven.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 1:54 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 14):
Regarding the P-8, since it's got different wings than the 737 NG and MAX, as well as a different centre fuselage/wing box area.. wouldn't that be something that could be built upon when stretching the -9? The 737 lego box has got so many parts to choose from now.

The difference according to contempory reports was mainly in upguaging materials, presumably for strength; this would add to OEW of a MADMAX, the span increase is exclusively due to the winglets being replaced with raked wingtips which will not give much more lift but may reduce drag.

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 14):
But grandpa's got twice the CFM-56s

More like greatgrandpa   technically greatuncle I would think.
BV
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 12):
Oh, so somebody who has purchased 737-9 would be interested if Boeing can build a 737-9 with the capabilities of a A321neo, no shit..

1. I think they were referencing a stretched -9, not the existing MAX 9.
2. They discussed it meeting their own expectations, not matching an A321neo.
3. I agree - of course if it were an A321neo clone they'd buy it.

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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 7:03 am

Maybe it will be superior to the A321...
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 7:23 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 10):
I came accross this picture on instagram this morning that illustrates both points as well as how far wing design as come in 60 years.

Wow. What a find! What IG feed was this on, if you don't mind my asking?

The shortest 707 variant was 144 feet, while the 720 (which really was a 707 variant) was 136 feet. The 739 is 138 feet.

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 14):

Regarding the P-8, since it's got different wings than the 737 NG and MAX, as well as a different centre fuselage/wing box area.. wouldn't that be something that could be built upon when stretching the -9? The 737 lego box has got so many parts to choose from now.

The wing is mostly the same. Raked tips provide more additional lift/drag reduction with a smaller overall device and wetted area. That said, raked tips increase the span more than winglets and also put more bending moment on the inboard wing spar. Span isn't such an issue for the P-8 because the Navy doesn't park them at gates usually, but the bending moment is an issue.

So the P-8 wing has a stronger spar than your garden variety 738. But if we ignore the wingtip devices, the 738 and P-8 have mostly identical wings from a shape and hgh-lift device point of view.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 7:27 am

If I understand it correctly, the conventional winglets did not take the turbulence during air-to-air refuelling well.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 8:03 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 18):
Maybe it will be superior to the A321...

It's still far from clear that the -10MADMAX will even see the light of day. As for the -10MADMAX being "superior" to the A321, I'm struggling to see how putting lipstick on a pig will work in that respect. Of course Boeing will show us nice slides that say it will, but then again they did also tell us the A321neo was only "catching up" with the 737-900ER.   
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 8:39 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 21):
It's still far from clear that the -10MADMAX will even see the light of day. As for the -10MADMAX being "superior" to the A321, I'm struggling to see how putting lipstick on a pig will work in that respect. Of course Boeing will show us nice slides that say it will, but then again they did also tell us the A321neo was only "catching up" with the 737-900ER.

I meant, that it will be hard to judge the quality of the product, if you do no know what they are planning to do. With enough effort you can make a product better than the A321NEO, but it might need half a new plane to do.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 9:23 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 22):
With enough effort you can make a product better than the A321NEO, but it might need half a new plane to do.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt Boeing could build something better than the A321, but I seriously doubt their appetite to spend what would be required to turn the -9 into an A321-beater.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 9:50 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt Boeing could build something better than the A321, but I seriously doubt their appetite to spend what would be required to turn the -9 into an A321-beater.

Neither do I, but as long as those rumours are not filled with technical ideas, they are of little worth, when you look at a 737 longer than the 9. The 7.5 is easy and obvious, but the stretch needs more details before it is worth discussing, especially as I think that the MoM and the stretch are kind of in competition.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 10:02 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 16):
More like greatgrandpa   technically greatuncle I would think.

Yes, something like that.  
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 16):
The difference according to contempory reports was mainly in upguaging materials, presumably for strength; this would add to OEW of a MADMAX, the span increase is exclusively due to the winglets being replaced with raked wingtips which will not give much more lift but may reduce drag.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
The wing is mostly the same. Raked tips provide more additional lift/drag reduction with a smaller overall device and wetted area. That said, raked tips increase the span more than winglets and also put more bending moment on the inboard wing spar. Span isn't such an issue for the P-8 because the Navy doesn't park them at gates usually, but the bending moment is an issue.

So the P-8 wing has a stronger spar than your garden variety 738. But if we ignore the wingtip devices, the 738 and P-8 have mostly identical wings from a shape and hgh-lift device point of view.

I see. The area around the wingbox under the fuselage of the P-8 seems bulkier and larger than on the garden variety (love that term btw) 737 as well. Do you know the technical differences there? If the gear could be mounted lower on the fuselage, that would be another way to get higher ground clearance for rotation without turning to lengthening gear struts wizardry.

Another article on this thread's topic from Scott Hamilton at Leeham News and Comment:

http://leehamnews.com/2016/05/09/pon...ifications-derivatives/#more-19567

[Edited 2016-05-09 03:04:01]
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 10:10 am

Interesting quote from that Leeham article that rather goes against Anet 'Boeing has massive gap to fill for the NG' folklore:

'========
There are no MAXes available in any quantity until after 2020. There aren’t many NGs available, either. Boeing said the NG line is overbooked as it is. The neos should be ready starting in June.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Mon May 09, 2016 1:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Wow. What a find! What IG feed was this on, if you don't mind my asking?

From here, a flight test boom operator she has lots of interesting pics on her feed.. yes *her* feed, this could be love, lol.

https://www.instagram.com/22powpow/
BV
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 12:40 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 20):
If I understand it correctly, the conventional winglets did not take the turbulence during air-to-air refuelling well.

I read somewhere that winglets do better on shorter flights (help in takeoff and climb) whereas the raked wingtips do better in cruise. That was one reason you see raked wing tips on longhaul planes like the 777 and 787 but winglets on shorter range planes like the 737. If this is true, raked wing tips were the clear choice for the P-8 because that plane typically flies long missions at higher altitudes, requiring good endurance. This means it would benefit more from the raked wingtips cruise efficiency improvements over the winglets advantages in the early stages of flight. No way of knowing if this is actually the case but it made sense.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 11:41 am

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 28):
I read somewhere that winglets do better on shorter flights (help in takeoff and climb) whereas the raked wingtips do better in cruise. That was one reason you see raked wing tips on longhaul planes like the 777 and 787 but winglets on shorter range planes like the 737. If this is true, raked wing tips were the clear choice for the P-8 because that plane typically flies long missions at higher altitudes, requiring good endurance. This means it would benefit more from the raked wingtips cruise efficiency improvements over the winglets advantages in the early stages of flight. No way of knowing if this is actually the case but it made sense.

But what about the A350 and A330 NEO? Both optimised for med/long, but both have winglets.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 1:17 pm

Some of the need for winglets is probably related to wingspan size limitations to allow the same gates to be used, or you need folding wingtips a la 777X.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 1:36 pm



Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 28):

I believe the P-8 is designed to operate at lower altitudes (very low, especially for a commercial jet).
Quoting MPadhi (Reply 29):
But what about the A350 and A330 NEO? Both optimised for med/long, but both have winglets.

The A350/A330neo "winglets" are more of a hybrid between blended winglets and raked wingtips. Some one else would have to chime in as to their efficiency versus traditional rakes wingtips (they are almost certainly better than winglets).

[Edited 2016-05-11 06:42:41]
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 1:37 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 12):
Oh, so somebody who has purchased 737-9 would be interested if Boeing can build a 737-9 with the capabilities of a A321neo, no shit..

NEWSFLASH ~~~~ Boeing cannot do this.

It would seem that's the case anyhow. Which brings us where?

Instead of a full clean sheet design for MoM, could Boeing restart and modernize a 757 line? Hell, the 753 is a great plane, but it's market timing was just terrible.

Either way, Boeing got caught flatfooted on this strategically. That lies on McNerney's head.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 1:52 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 20):
If I understand it correctly, the conventional winglets did not take the turbulence during air-to-air refuelling well.

In addition to this reason, I read the raked wingtips shed ice better than do the traditional vertical winglets, which is important at lower altitudes.

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 28):
I read somewhere that winglets do better on shorter flights (help in takeoff and climb) whereas the raked wingtips do better in cruise. That was one reason you see raked wing tips on longhaul planes like the 777 and 787 but winglets on shorter range planes like the 737. If this is true, raked wing tips were the clear choice for the P-8 because that plane typically flies long missions at higher altitudes, requiring good endurance.

I read that P-8 will spend a fair amount of time at lower altitudes, once on station.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 4:13 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 32):

Instead of a full clean sheet design for MoM, could Boeing restart and modernize a 757 line? Hell, the 753 is a great plane, but it's market timing was just terrible.

Well they could, if they feel like getting cained in the next development cycle as well as this one..
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 8:00 pm

Six wide passenger planes based on tube and wings have likely been perfected about as much as current and the near future allow. My suspicion is that new wings for the 320/737 are the next step, but the737 needs new wing box and main landing gear. Boeing is gaining a lot of experience doing this for the 777 so may be able to match Airbus on total cost.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 9:01 pm

P&W suggest GTF for new MAX version

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/larger-737-max-talk-could-rekindle-geared-turbofan-b-425178/
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 9:46 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 36):
P&W suggest GTF for new MAX version

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/larger-737-max-talk-could-rekindle-geared-turbofan-b-425178/

Now we're getting somewhere. Not far, but somewhere. lol

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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 9:51 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 36):
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/larger-737-max-talk-could-rekindle-geared-turbofan-b-425178/

That is interesting but how would that fit under the wing of the B737-MAX....
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 9:54 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 38):
That is interesting but how would that fit under the wing of the B737-MAX....

I'm assuming as has been discussed that this might require a new wingbox/center section and thus allow taller main landing gear.

-Dave
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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 10:01 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 39):
I'm assuming as has been discussed that this might require a new wingbox/center section and thus allow taller main landing gear.

I understand that. But then Boeing would be doing a very costly concession to the earlier adopted strategy on the MAX-program. Such a changed B737-MAX could make their MOM-proposal being halted for quite a long time.
 
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Wed May 11, 2016 10:28 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 36):
P&W suggest GTF for new MAX version

Its probably their best chance of breaking the GE stranglehold on Boeing narrow bodies.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 40):
I understand that. But then Boeing would be doing a very costly concession to the earlier adopted strategy on the MAX-program. Such a changed B737-MAX could make their MOM-proposal being halted for quite a long time.

Yes, and it would be the wrong move by Boeing.
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RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 1:35 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 39):
I'm assuming as has been discussed that this might require a new wingbox/center section and thus allow taller main landing gear.

It may also need beefier wings for the extra weight and power.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 40):
But then Boeing would be doing a very costly concession to the earlier adopted strategy on the MAX-program.
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 41):
Yes, and it would be the wrong move by Boeing.

Might be better than proceeding with a difficult to sell model.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 41):
Its probably their best chance of breaking the GE stranglehold on Boeing narrow bodies.

Provided P&W could do away with the NEO hiccups and deliver on time.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
BobbyPSP
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:29 pm

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 3:37 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 39):
I'm assuming as has been discussed that this might require a new wingbox/center section and thus allow taller main landing gear.

I'm not mechanic nor engineer but would a larger wing box allow for additional fuel as the tank probably would be bigger? They're looking at new larger engines which would allow for the addtional weight/range
 
alyusuph
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:38 am

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 3:49 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 40):
I understand that. But then Boeing would be doing a very costly concession to the earlier adopted strategy on the MAX-program. Such a changed B737-MAX could make their MOM-proposal being halted for quite a long time.

Probably Boeing have realised that a MOM will not garner the required efficiencies with current and near future technologies, so they want to play it safe until the technologies mature enough for a MOM. Why sink money for efficiencies which can be achieved with current technologies? Also, remember the Boeing NGs have been undergoing constant technological updates, and they are currently just as efficient as a newly designed airframe with current technologies-perhaps  
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
alyusuph
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:38 am

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 3:54 am

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 35):
Six wide passenger planes based on tube and wings have likely been perfected about as much as current and the near future allow. My suspicion is that new wings for the 320/737 are the next step, but the737 needs new wing box and main landing gear. Boeing is gaining a lot of experience doing this for the 777 so may be able to match Airbus on total cost.

True, I also think if Boeing really wants to push innovation to the limits, they cannot fail to raise the landing gear of the existing B737s. The catch is that Airbus has much more leeway than Boeing.
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
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seahawk
Posts: 9627
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 5:05 am

Quoting alyusuph (Reply 45):
True, I also think if Boeing really wants to push innovation to the limits, they cannot fail to raise the landing gear of the existing B737s. The catch is that Airbus has much more leeway than Boeing.

Not true at all, while the outer form might be looking the same, the production and construction methods are constantly improving. In 5 years you could probably 3D-print the the entire fuselage.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 5:13 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 40):
But then Boeing would be doing a very costly concession to the earlier adopted strategy on the MAX-program.

Sure. Be that as it may, the model would likely come about with a new wing/wingbox and thus longer landing gear.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 42):
It may also need beefier wings for the extra weight and power.

Perhaps. I have no idea. I'd imagine that would be the case though.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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BoeingVista
Posts: 2060
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 5:34 am

Quoting alyusuph (Reply 45):
True, I also think if Boeing really wants to push innovation to the limits, they cannot fail to raise the landing gear of the existing B737s. The catch is that Airbus has much more leeway than Boeing.

Revamping a 50 year old design is pushing innovation to the limits?

Also at what point do EASA / FAA say no to grandfathering forcing Boeing to go for a completly new certification.
BV
 
UA444
Posts: 2979
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Boeing Confirms Review Of Larger -7Max And -9Max - Pt. 2

Thu May 12, 2016 6:01 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 36):

This just got way more interesting. Hope PW can get in on this.

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