Whiteguy
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 3:43 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 49):

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 42):
grenades.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that from YYT, served only by AC's highest cost mainline product and Jazz that AC "always has the lowest fares"? All that talk about a better product yet AC has to resort to discounting the product below WS to fill it?

According to each airlines audited numbers, on average, it cost WS 32% less to move one seat one mile last quarter than AC.

So what you are inferring is that the much lower cost carrier, WS, is also the premium carrier in market? That might help explain why WS's margins were nearly 10x better than AC's margins last quarter.

Maybe YYT is one of the markets where AC is losing all a lot of money as it produces the worst margins of any airline traded airline in the US, Mexico and Canada.

High costs and low fares never make for a good business plan

Fuel costs have nearly doubled since the low in January. As Delta's CEO explained, there will be many markets that positively contributed to AC's stellar 1.56% profit margin last quarter that will be doing the opposite now. Delta has far more leeway given they, like WS, are starting with overall margins that are infinitely higher than AC's near break-even performance.

And what happens when AC has to actually start paying its share of Canadian income taxes? They paid no corporate taxes in the last three years.

Not quite sure what you're getting at and why you quoted me.....
 
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SRQKEF
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting ERJ135 (Reply 44):

One route that fulfills that criteria:

UA154 HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM (738)
UA137 GUM-NGO (73G)
CZ8308 NGO-WUH (738)
CZ3169 WUH-URC (73G)
CZ6025 URC-IKA (73G)
FZ242 IKA-DXB (738)
FZ781 DXB-PRG (738)
QS1096 PRG-LGW (738)
WS25 LGW-YYT (73G)
WS17 YYT-YYZ (73G)
WS709 YYZ-YVR (73G)
WS1864 YVR-HNL (738)

This was only after a quick search, I'm sure a much shorter route, or one filled with more variety of airlines, is possible. But in summary, yes you can fly 737s around the world.  
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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AC_B777
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 4:04 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 49):
All that talk about a better product yet AC has to resort to discounting the product below WS to fill it?

Listen Jimbo, you can spin it whatever way you want. AC has almost 3X the flights into YYT than WS, yet there are times when WS struggle to fill a Q400 to YHZ, not to mention the 737. While AC's loads are at 85%-100% full! But I guess you know more than I and you see it as money loosing. Whatever...typical AC naysayer. The only YYT WS flights that has done extremely well since it was introduced a few years ago is YYT-MCO and YYT-DUB. However, AC's YYT-LHR flight is popular as well.
BTW, all the flights that I compared in my previous post, NOT ONE of them had anything to do with YYT. They were from other major cities across Canada to various domestic and trans border destinations. Apart from one YHZ-YYC-YHZ flight that was the same fare on both airlines, AC was lower cost on all.
AC has done tremendous in the last few years (apart from what you think), even the old AC bashers here on a.net have relented and agreed.
WS costs have risen over the years and will continue to do so, especially as they add different a/c type. The 767 hasn't been them for 6 months yet. Just wait until employee groups decide they want to unionize. It will happen eventually.
Anyways, I'm done here. I've wasted too much time with someone whose going to negative regardless on how well AC does.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
bmacleod
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 4:33 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 49):
And what happens when AC has to actually start paying its share of Canadian income taxes? They paid no corporate taxes in the last three years.

AC does pay its share of taxes, just set up differently I believe..

Here's last years AC financial report. I'm sure you can find in there somewhere..

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/me...ns/documents/investor_day_2015.pdf
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
jimbo737
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 4:41 pm

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

The AC apologists believe eking out a 1.56% profit margin in an environment when the average margin in Canada, the US and Mexico for publicly traded airlines was 10x higher is some sort of marvelous achievement.

That's like giving a gold star to the classroom dufus for getting 52% instead of 48% on the exam when the rest of class routinely gets 60 to 70%. Maybe it's a sign of the times that marginal performance is rewarded.

Add to this that it was achieved in an environment where they saved $500m in fuel costs by virtue of a halving of their largest single cost driver, aviation fuel, compared to 1Q 2014, a saving that wildly trumps the increased costs associated by the decline of c$ and the yield declines due to the slowing Cdn economy, but moreso by adding unnecessary capacity to the market, and then having to discount it to fill it.

I suppose this is to be expected if you leave your critical thinking skills in the hands of the PR machine of the company you work for.

Repeat the mantra enough times and people will tend to believe anything.
 
N1120A
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 6:38 pm

YYT sees a fair bit of construction and resource traffic, along with outbound commuting to larger communities from Newfoundland residents. Additionally, they do substantial tourist traffic in the summer, when it is absolutely beautiful there.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
Your not really comparing apples with apples here. The NYC flight was most likely O/D traffic due to the lack of connecting services from other parts of Canada

The EWR flight also fed/was fed by the United hub there. It was even mainline in summer.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
wwtraveler99
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 8:28 pm

Sorry this is a little off topic. What does TATL stand for? I know it has to do with international flight but if someone canelain further I would appreciate it.

Thx WW
 
fraT
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 9:03 pm

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 56):
Sorry this is a little off topic. What does TATL stand for? I know it has to do with international flight but if someone canelain further I would appreciate it.

Transatlantic
 
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longhauler
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 9:17 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 49):
Doesn't it strike you as odd that from YYT, served only by AC's highest cost mainline product and Jazz that AC "always has the lowest fares"? All that talk about a better product yet AC has to resort to discounting the product below WS to fill it?

I picked a Sunday a couple of weeks from now, May 29:

AC YYT-LHR, one way ... $2426 ... taxes in.
WS YYT-LGW, one way ... $271 ... taxes in.

And, I checked the loads, the AC flight is almost full. So ... who has to discount flights to fill aircraft? With a yield of about 30% higher than WS with continually higher load factors ... it sure as hell ain't AC.

For fun, check a comparison of fares from YYZ-LHR on AC, against YYZ-LGW on WS. (I think you already know the answer, but it's $1474 on almost full AC ... $482 on WS).
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jimbo737
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Sun May 08, 2016 9:41 pm

Ask any WJ'r and they'll tell you it is virtually impossible to snag a stand-by seat to any destination in Europe.

And if you know anything about WJ, you know they don't do anything unless it is profitable. What's their track record? 20+ years in business and only one year where they lost money, and that was when they wrote off the -200 fleet overnight?

I didn't realize Newfoundlander's were so awash in cash that they are prepared to pay 9x more for 31" seat for a 5 hour flight to London? I wonder how longer that will last?

$271 to London vs $2,426? I can grab a chauffeured Mercedes Limo to the Strand and back and still be $1,500 ahead of the game! With the excess cash, I can go visit my clients twice a year instead of once!

Maybe I'll open a gas station in St. Johns and charge $9 a liter for gas and 9x the going rate for bananas too. I wonder how well I'd do?
 
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longhauler
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 12:45 am

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 59):
Ask any WJ'r and they'll tell you it is virtually impossible to snag a stand-by seat to any destination in Europe.

So why are they selling seats so cheaply ... charity? Or does WS just like having a revenue per seat mile of 35% less than AC?

Or maybe WS is looking for market share .... just like you always accuse AC. Wasn't it about a month ago that you were yapping about AC using low fares to garner market share? So, you feel it's appropriate action for WS now?

I say again, (for the last time), fares are high on AC, because the flights are full. And ... fares are dynamic. Probably 6 months ago one could climb onto an AC aircraft for a WS fare ... but for a flight two weeks from now, you can't. You CAN however get cheap flights still on WS. So ... does that mean WS needs lessons in yield management? It sure looks like it when they are selling low low fares when their aircraft are so full it is "virtually impossible to snag a stand-by seat".

Curious indeed.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
haggisman
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 1:49 am

I checked both AC YVR - LHR direct and WS YVR-LGW direct back in JANUARY after Westjet made their announcement about their May seasonal service to the UK. AC was approximately $1500 for a Tango ticket direct to LHR, and we got WS direct YVR to LGW for $407 taxes in. We had this reduced a week later to $323 by using their price drop guarantee. I really don't care if people rave about ACs "great service" - all AC flights I've been on have been overwhemingly mediocre - professional service, but nary a smile. Westjet on the other hand, are just as professional but at least you come away feeling you were dealing with employees who do care.

No brainer for us.
e pluribus Scotsman
 
Whiteguy
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 2:45 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 58):


AC YYT-LHR, one way ... $2426 ... taxes in.
WS YYT-LGW, one way ... $271 ... taxes in.

And, I checked the loads, the AC flight is almost full. So ... who has to discount flights to fill aircraft? With a yield of about 30% higher than WS with continually higher load factors ... it sure as hell ain't AC.


Hmmm....I checked the loads on both flight and neither flight is anywhere near full.....

Quoting longhauler (Reply 58):
For fun, check a comparison of fares from YYZ-LHR on AC, against YYZ-LGW on WS. (I think you already know the answer, but it's $1474 on almost full AC ... $482 on WS).

For fun I looked at these loads to, the AC flights aren't anywhere near full on May 29th and WS has about a dozen seats open....
 
Viscount724
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 3:07 am

Quoting haggisman (Reply 61):
I really don't care if people rave about ACs "great service" - all AC flights I've been on have been overwhemingly mediocre - professional service, but nary a smile. Westjet on the other hand, are just as professional but at least you come away feeling you were dealing with employees who do care.

WS is also buy-on-board on their transatlantic flights, unlike AC. And alcoholic drinks are free on AC in Y class on longhaul international flights. On WS a beer is $6.49.
 
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longhauler
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 3:12 am

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 62):
Hmmm....I checked the loads on both flight and neither flight is anywhere near full.....

So which airline is making more money? The one charging $2426 a seat ... or the one charging $271 a seat?

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 62):
For fun I looked at these loads to, the AC flights aren't anywhere near full on May 29th and WS has about a dozen seats open

Did you also notice that the three Triples are allocated to 27,000 Kgs of revenue cargo each?

Or look at it another way. If you DO have access to revenue numbers then you are also not allowed to talk specifics ... but, do this ... Take the total number of seats WS has sold on May 29, multiplied by the average fare. Then take the total number of J, W, Y seats AC has sold on it's 4 flights. Compare the two ... that's your answer! Throw in the revenue cargo and the comparison bewteen the two is pretty startling.

Quoting haggisman (Reply 61):
I really don't care if people rave about ACs "great service" - all AC flights I've been on have been overwhemingly mediocre - professional service, but nary a smile. Westjet on the other hand, are just as professional but at least you come away feeling you were dealing with employees who do care.

Every one has different needs and desires from the product they purchase. Every day Air Canada carries more than 100,000 passengers to six continents. By and large, they are all pretty well happy they chose AC. Just as I am sure the vast majority of Westjet passengers are happy they chose WS.

But, just like I am sure WS employees hear stories from their passengers about nasty old AC ... at AC, we hear the same thing about Westjet. Luckily, everyone ends up on the carrier they desire.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
N1120A
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 3:18 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 48):
The term direct flight comes up sometimes when, I believe, non-stop should be used. As I understand it, a direct flight will go from A to C but stop at B for fuel or passengers. Traveling from A to B and B to C is nonstop while A to C is direct.

That is a distinctly American distinction. Most of the world calls non-stops directs

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 49):
Maybe YYT is one of the markets where AC is losing all a lot of money as it produces the worst margins of any airline traded airline in the US, Mexico and Canada.

YYT would definitely not be losing money for AC.

Quoting haggisman (Reply 61):
I really don't care if people rave about ACs "great service" - all AC flights I've been on have been overwhemingly mediocre - professional service, but nary a smile. Westjet on the other hand, are just as professional but at least you come away feeling you were dealing with employees who do care

I've never had anything less than exemplary service on AC, and that includes both premium and economy cabins. Not only that, but AC does a much better job with languages and offers connectivity to a much larger network, world wide.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 63):
WS is also buy-on-board on their transatlantic flights, unlike AC. And alcoholic drinks are free on AC in Y class on longhaul international flights. On WS a beer is $6.49.

Not to mention AC offering a premium cabin.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Whiteguy
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 3:24 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 64):
Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 62):
Hmmm....I checked the loads on both flight and neither flight is anywhere near full.....

So which airline is making more money? The one charging $2426 a seat ... or the one charging $271 a seat?


Not sure, guess we'll have to wait till the fall to find out... 
Quoting longhauler (Reply 64):

Did you also notice that the three Triples are allocated to 27,000 Kgs of revenue cargo each?

Or look at it another way. If you DO have access to revenue numbers then you are also not allowed to talk specifics ... but, do this ... Take the total number of seats WS has sold on May 29, multiplied by the average fare. Then take the total number of J, W, Y seats AC has sold on it's 4 flights. Compare the two ... that's your answer! Throw in the revenue cargo and the comparison bewteen the two is pretty startling.

No I don't have access to all that info, I was just going by the pax loads for those flights. I know cargo is a huge revenue earner......but you didn't mention you were including that earlier....

I honestly have no idea what WS is carrying for cargo either, if any....
 
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lightsaber
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 4:50 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 47):
I also prefer to fly on alliance members that earn status points. I'm now QF FF and WS only earn FF points. If I'm not concerned about needing enoug status points then I'll happily look a other options

Points I understand. But my issue is that convenient flights rarely allow me to fly the same alliance. For example, my favorite airline is Jetblue, but they do not have convenient enough flights to TPA, so this summer I fly DL. Normally, I like to build miles on AA, but their schedule was inferior.

I've found the reward points are not worth it. In return, I get to sample many airlines and compare contrast there services. Once upon a time, I was loyal *A. Then I was loyal OW. Now... Little loyalty and I've found the small savings I make on each ticket is worth the lost rewards.

For that 'skipping about alliances,' I've been able to enjoy Westjet. Also, B6, AA, DL, UA, BA, AZ, EI, LH, LZ, AS, HA, HP/US (before they were part of AA), PanAm (yes, I'm old enough to have flown them, but never managed Eastern), Western (yep..    ), NW (pre-DL), WN (but not FL), Aloha, and I'm not done adding airlines to my bucket list and I'm sure I missed a half dozen airlines to add to that list.   

Anyone can pick why or why not an airline could serve them. Do to my good experiences on Westjet, I just wondered why you preferred not to fly them.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 48):
The term direct flight comes up sometimes when, I believe, non-stop should be used.

The most direct flight is a non-stop.    What it comes down to the fewest connections/stops. I put connections/stops in that order as one avoids connections first (highest risk of missing), but stops are also not-desired. The worst is multiple connections (two=bridge hubbing). Why I see you jargon point, it still makes my point.  

Lightsaber
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N1120A
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 7:50 am

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 66):
I honestly have no idea what WS is carrying for cargo either, if any....

Fish and mail?

I'd imagine there is a fair bit of lobster during that season.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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longhauler
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 12:19 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 66):
No I don't have access to all that info, I was just going by the pax loads for those flights. I know cargo is a huge revenue earner......but you didn't mention you were including that earlier....

It is all a part of the equation. That's why I don't look at just how many passengers are on an aircraft.

AC has shown that it's yield management is very well tuned. That is how they are able to achieve the revenue per seat mile they do. Note I said revenue per seat mile, not passenger revenue per seat mile. While "seat mile" is the guage, it is not the only source of income.

When you see a Triple going with say, 100 open seats in an airline that has aircraft that carry 100 less people, and doesn't mind moving aircraft around ... the answer to why lies below the floor. Remember, the Triples were bought to replace the Combi B747s and the decision to decline the B777F lies in it's versatility. 400 passengers, and 15000 kgs of freight .... or 300 passengers and 50,000 kgs of freight.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
bmacleod
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 1:56 pm

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 52):

Nothing against Internet Trolls but I find it annoying when they twist around the discussion just to ruffle a few feathers...   

I'd let airline facts and figures speak for themselves.

[Edited 2016-05-09 07:02:52]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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AC_B777
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 70):
Internet Trolls

I'm going to assume you weren't calling me an "internet troll". I certainly hope not as I have been an active member of this website as well as the forums here since 1999. I have seen many members "predict" that by the early 2000's, "AC will no longer exist". Yet, in recent years, it has grown and made record profits and is alive and kicking despite what some might say.
I am also very happy the WS is doing well. Both airlines keep competition alive in this country and that makes flying that much better for everyone who lives here.
In the end, the AC naysayers and bashers will always have their negative opinions about AC, both on a.net as well as other social sites and I can't change that. To each their own i guess.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
haggisman
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Mon May 09, 2016 5:16 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 63):

Quoting haggisman (Reply 61):
I really don't care if people rave about ACs "great service" - all AC flights I've been on have been overwhemingly mediocre - professional service, but nary a smile. Westjet on the other hand, are just as professional but at least you come away feeling you were dealing with employees who do care.

WS is also buy-on-board on their transatlantic flights, unlike AC. And alcoholic drinks are free on AC in Y class on longhaul international flights. On WS a beer is $6.49.

I hardly think free booze and buy-onboard is a game changer for passengers looking for low fares. I never eat on a plane. The "pizza" thingy I attempted to eat on an AC flight once saw to that. Have a light meal before you depart and you'll be fine.
e pluribus Scotsman
 
bmacleod
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 12:17 pm

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 71):
I'm going to assume you weren't calling me an "internet troll". I certainly hope not as I have been an active member of this website as well as the forums here since 1999. I have seen many members "predict" that by the early 2000's, "AC will no longer exist". Yet, in recent years, it has grown and made record profits and is alive and kicking despite what some might say.
I am also very happy the WS is doing well. Both airlines keep competition alive in this country and that makes flying that much better for everyone who lives here.
In the end, the AC naysayers and bashers will always have their negative opinions about AC, both on a.net as well as other social sites and I can't change that. To each their own i guess.

Sorry, I was referring to someone else in reply52.

[Edited 2016-05-10 05:37:35]
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longhauler
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 1:00 pm

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 71):
I am also very happy the WS is doing well. Both airlines keep competition alive in this country and that makes flying that much better for everyone who lives here.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. AC, is the most efficient it has ever been in it's almost 80 years of existence. When looking for a reason, I think WS is pretty high on the list.

It reminds me of the days of AC/CP/WD. The competition was fierce ... but the result was in-flight service we will likely never see again!

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 71):
In the end, the AC naysayers and bashers will always have their negative opinions about AC, both on a.net as well as other social sites and I can't change that.

You would be wasting your time trying. If one tries to refute a simple misconception using basic fact ... the trolls usually go scurrying back under their rocks.

But much like most Britons love to knock BA, likewise Australians knocking QF, it is a Canadian passtime to knock AC.

In the past week, AC flew the equivilent of over 20 B777s in extra sections moving Fort Mac evacuees across the country, flown by volunteer AC employees (moi included). Everything from pets riding in the cabins of our aircraft, to moving supplies for free around for the Canadian Red Cross, to AC matching employees donations to the tune of almost $1M, to AC employees opening their homes, cottages, trailers etc. to people needing shelter ... none of it made the news!

Maybe a mistake, but it is AC corporate policy to NOT make charity actions public.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Aircellist
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 74):
In the past week, AC flew the equivilent of over 20 B777s in extra sections moving Fort Mac evacuees across the country, flown by volunteer AC employees (moi included). Everything from pets riding in the cabins of our aircraft, to moving supplies for free around for the Canadian Red Cross, to AC matching employees donations to the tune of almost $1M, to AC employees opening their homes, cottages, trailers etc. to people needing shelter ... none of it made the news!

Maybe a mistake, but it is AC corporate policy to NOT make charity actions public.

WS having pets flown with refugees is on my FB

Thanks for your volunteering.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Whiteguy
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 4:00 pm

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 75):

Quoting longhauler (Reply 74):
In the past week, AC flew the equivilent of over 20 B777s in extra sections moving Fort Mac evacuees across the country, flown by volunteer AC employees (moi included). Everything from pets riding in the cabins of our aircraft, to moving supplies for free around for the Canadian Red Cross, to AC matching employees donations to the tune of almost $1M, to AC employees opening their homes, cottages, trailers etc. to people needing shelter ... none of it made the news!

Maybe a mistake, but it is AC corporate policy to NOT make charity actions public.

WS having pets flown with refugees is on my FB

Thanks for your volunteering.

As were North Cariboo, Canadian North, Air North, Encore, Suncor, Flair, and many others! Fantastic job by all crews for all these airlines and the many crews working on the ground. And especially the Oil Sands companies that did the bulk of the organizing and taking in the thousands of evacuees.
 
jimbo737
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RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 4:14 pm

...and yet the national media continue to focus on AC's role as follows:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fair-shake-neil-macdonald-1.3574375

Air Canada backtrack

Air Canada, which has made a science out of extracting fees and nickel-and-diming travellers with charges for everything from blankets to leg room to ticket changes, produced a remarkable piece of doubletalk over the weekend, even by its standards.

After reports that it had been gouging passengers fleeing Fort McMurray for Edmonton when the rest of the world was trying to help them, the airline issued an indignant response.

"It is not correct that we raised fares in response to this devastating situation," Air Canada said. "In some cases, customers booking last minute on May 3 and 4 on flights from Fort McMurray and Edmonton paid premium fares.

"This was a result of Air Canada's computerized revenue management system, which automatically manages fares."

In other words, yes, we charged them higher prices, but we couldn't help it. We automatically charge as much as we can.

The airline did do some damage control, adjusting prices and refunding charges after angry passengers took to social media, but whoever wrote that communiqué deserves some sort of PR anti-trophy.
-------------------------

For most people, perception is reality.

Tens of thousands of people were evacuated from YMM ultimately to locations from coast to coast. Each and everyone of those people has a story to tell at the bar, the dining room table, at the supermarket checkout, at the nail salon, in the ball dugout, around the office cooler etc etc. Take 70,000 people, multiply that by, conservatively, the 10 people who will hear the tale and it becomes clear that the story of AC "gouging" at a time of need is going to take a long time to disappear from the annals of conventional wisdom. The story even made the international media.

Every airline has an RMS system that does exactly what AC's does. The difference is the other airlines were smart enough to defeat the algorithms immediately. For some reason, no one at Air Canada apparently was in a position to, or was afraid of doing the "right thing".

That is a spectacular example of the difference in corporate culture between the two companies. No amount of top down pronouncements of " a change in culture has occurred" will alter the average Canadian's impression of AC anytime soon. Or at least till the next seat sale.

This event is a good example of the saying that "tigers don't change their stripes".
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6250
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 77):
Or at least till the next seat sale.

I know you would like to pretend that what you wrote was worthwhile ... but it comes down to that line.

Bottom line is that AC carried almost 10 times as many evacuees out of Alberta to the Maritimes and Newfoundland as Westjet. And all of those thousands of passengers were pretty damned happy about it.

Does it matter 3 months from now when anyone is buying a seat .... umm, nope!

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 77):
This event is a good example of the saying that "tigers don't change their stripes".

Yes, that is what all of the Westjet fanboys are (incorrectly) hoping. But for every one example that the "Westjet Social Media Team" were able to dig up, then exploit ... there are thousands and thousands of people that got to where they wanted to be.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: And Another ‘737 Across The Pond!

Tue May 10, 2016 6:56 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 78):
Bottom line is that AC carried almost 10 times as many evacuees out of Alberta to the Maritimes and Newfoundland as Westjet. And all of those thousands of passengers were pretty damned happy about it.

Does it matter 3 months from now when anyone is buying a seat .... umm, nope!


And WS moved the majority of those same passengers out of the fire zone to YEG and YYC....roughly 8000 people on 100+ flights out of the oil sands from Wednesday to Saturday.

But like you say, 3 months from now they'll be booking with who ever is $20 cheaper

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