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RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:09 am
by OA260
Quoting Rufusisgod (Reply 48):
I'd have 2 questions for MEP Kelly.

Good questions.

Truth most likely . ''Im miffed at LH and will generate as much bad publicity as I can''. Nothing to do with being concerned about ''Us''.

---

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 49):
I am an AAdvantage member but with no status so I'm wondering if this was a factor or just a random selection.

Random when it comes down to non status passengers. Usually airlines look at their Golds/Silvers and then other Alliance member equiv then they go down the line. You could have been the only one left within a group of a number of people who they needed to upgrade.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:49 am
by Eagleboy
Quoting Rufusisgod (Reply 48):
I'd have 2 questions for MEP Kelly.

Spot on, you also forgot, 3. Did you accept the T's& C's which state that "the flight may be overbooked and carriage may be denied"

Quoting OA260 (Reply 50):
Truth most likely . ''Im miffed at LH and will generate as much bad publicity as I can''. Nothing to do with being concerned about ''Us''.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:40 pm
by Cipango
Quoting OA260 (Reply 47):
MEP SEÁN KELLY has vowed to ban airlines from over-booking flights after being left stranded in Dublin Airport yesterday.

Good luck to him. In that case maybe he should ban hotels from doing it too, and ban Irish Rail from selling more tickets than there are seats?

Overbooking is based on trends and data of historic no-shows. Given the cost of payouts, airlines do it when they are quite confident the number of no show passengers will be greater or equal to the number overbooked.

It is an excellent revenue maximising technique when done right - which it usually is. There is always the odd case when more passengers showed up than there are seats.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:02 pm
by hynithuchi
Quoting Cipango (Reply 52):
MEP SEÁN KELLY has vowed to ban airlines from over-booking flights after being left stranded in Dublin Airport yesterday.

And what does he plan to do about noshows who are the reason for overbooking flights ?

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:51 pm
by SuperSix2
Hi all

Nice little video of inaugural flight of EI1AK to LAX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPp3FVUtdTo

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:42 pm
by EIDL
Quoting hynithuchi (Reply 53):
And what does he plan to do about noshows who are the reason for overbooking flights ?


No Shows aren't the reason. They've paid, their right not to turn up.

People turning up when the airline has assumed no shows are the cause - but airlines trying to extract more money in an indirect and unreliable manner is the reason.

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 31):
Rather poor effort really from EI but not surprising.

AG, not EI, are responsible for the provision of the aircraft.

[Edited 2016-05-11 08:45:23]

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:02 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting SuperSix2 (Reply 54):
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 31):
Rather poor effort really from EI but not surprising.

AG, not EI, are responsible for the provision of the aircraft.

I am going to stop you right there on that train of thought. EI is responsible for the provision of the service, end of story. It is the same old BS from them all the time. There is no way that they should not have an aircraft ready for this service given the lead in time.
At least when the DOT gives NAI the permission to start services out of Ireland, then we will see some competition which will either improve EI or finish them on TA services.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:24 pm
by shamrock604
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 56):
At least when the DOT gives NAI the permission to start services out of Ireland, then we will see some competition which will either improve EI or finish them on TA services.

With respect, they already compete with the world's 3 largest airlines in DL, AA and UA.

How do you know what may have occurred technically with the aircraft? Any number of issues can crop up - especially when we're talking about an aircraft type no longer in production.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:29 pm
by 321neo
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 57):
Any number of issues can crop up - especially when we're talking about an aircraft type no longer in production.

Exactly...which is why they have had since November 2015 to resolve any issues and to make sure that the aircraft will be in tip top condition 7 months down the line when the aircraft will be required.

[Edited 2016-05-11 11:30:44]

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:32 pm
by Eagleboy
Quoting EIDL (Reply 55):
AG, not EI, are responsible for the provision of the aircraft.
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 56):
I am going to stop you right there on that train of thought. EI is responsible for the provision of the service, end of story. It is the same old BS from them all the time. There is no way that they should not have an aircraft ready for this service given the lead in time.

Im with EIBoston here, while it might be a problem with the older airframe or an issue with AG operaton....at the end of the day the aircraft is painted green and white with Aer Lingus written on it. The fault is with EI, they should have had this aircraft in place before it was actually needed (maybe 7-10 days lead in time) if this time was eaten into with unforeseen technical problems then they should have made a disruption plan with hire-ins.
Airline all over the world plan for and deal with disruptions all the time, no reason (except for penny pinching) that this shouldn't have been done in this situation.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:52 pm
by shamrock604
Quoting 321neo (Reply 58):
Exactly...which is why they have had since November 2015 to resolve any issues and to make sure that the aircraft will be in tip top condition 7 months down the line when the aircraft will be required.

Whoa whoa whoa...... they've had it since November??

I take it back - there's no excuse for that.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:30 pm
by 321neo
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 60):
Whoa whoa whoa...... they've had it since November??

I take it back - there's no excuse for that.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shanair/22478649750/

The above photo shows N135CA landing at SNN on the morning of November 1st 2015. Upon landing the aircraft went straight to the ASL hangar. The aircraft has remained at SNN ever since. It has yet to make even a test flight.

[Edited 2016-05-11 12:33:12]

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:54 pm
by EIDL
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 56):
I am going to stop you right there on that train of thought. EI is responsible for the provision of the service, end of story. It is the same old BS from them all the time. There is no way that they should not have an aircraft ready for this service given the lead in time.

No, you aren't - because you clearly don't understand the situation at all.

Its not their aircraft. Its AGs aircraft.

AG are responsible for providing it and I'm sure they are suffering contract penalties for non-provision. EI are not going to be able to go in to the AG hangar and take it out now are they?

[Edited 2016-05-11 13:55:17]

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:59 pm
by BrianDromey
I got my first glance at the new FR uniform this week one of the four crew were wearing it. It looks smart and decently tailored. I'm not a massive fan of the scarf, the pattern doesn't seem quite right, but overall it's a vast improvement.
Seeing as we're now sticklers for consistency on theses boards FR must be amongst the lest consistent airline out there. There are at least three logo typefaces, crews are in a mix of uniforms, there are the old seats, the new seats and the new seats with SkyInterior. There are new bulkheads with colourful pictures of children splashing in pools, etc. It's all more mixed than ever!

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 56):

Same could be said of QR who are reducing schedules and delaying route launches due to aircraft delays. It's not uncommon. Again, the issue is with cabin vendors. There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns, as the saying goes.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:56 pm
by OA260
Ryanair and Aer Lingus likely to agree passenger deal ‘within the year’
Low-cost carrier also close to agreement with Norwegian airline

Rivals Aer Lingus and Ryanair could agree a passenger sharing deal “within the year”, according to one of the low-cost carrier’s executives.
The pair have been in talks since last year about the possibility of Ryanair feeding passengers from its network to Aer Lingus’s long-haul flights.
An agreement would allow customers to fly the European leg of their journey with Ryanair and the long-haul element with Aer Lingus on one ticket.
On Wednesday, Ryanair’s chief marketing officer, Kenny Jacobs, said that it was likely the two would agree a deal within the year.
He also confirmed that the Irish airline was close to doing a similar deal with Norwegian Air International, which has plans to launch low-cost flights to the US and far east from Europe.
He added that those talks were closer to a conclusion than the negotiations with Aer Lingus.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...ger-deal-within-the-year-1.2644207

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:49 am
by EIBoston
Quoting EIDL (Reply 62):

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 56):
I am going to stop you right there on that train of thought. EI is responsible for the provision of the service, end of story. It is the same old BS from them all the time. There is no way that they should not have an aircraft ready for this service given the lead in time.

No, you aren't - because you clearly don't understand the situation at all.

Its not their aircraft. Its AGs aircraft.

AG are responsible for providing it and I'm sure they are suffering contract penalties for non-provision. EI are not going to be able to go in to the AG hangar and take it out now are they?

I understand the situation very well thank you. The service is provided by Aer Lingus and that is where the buck stops on this one. There are the ones who market, sell and make/lose money on the route(s). Of course they can't go into the hanger and take a plane but what have they done to fix the situation, seeing as they must have known for some time that the 757 was not ready for them? They did nothing but cancel flights(EI145 today as an example)I know the Irish threads have a very soft spot for EI but that should not mask the fact that they have made a complete mess of this. They are already stretched to capacity on TA routes and being down an aircraft at the start of Summer season is only magnified when another plane goes tech like EI-LBS did last night in IAD.(resulting in EI135 being cancelled today too)

This is not the first time that EI have messed up the start of the summer schedule for T/A flights. Their winter maintenance program of 2014/2015 overran and they ended up canceling flights again. And please don't tell me that is the fault of the people in Bordeaux.

Bottom line here is that the general public don't know or care about who provides EI with aircraft or maintenance. They only see the cancelled flights and inconvenience for them. When you go to a supermarket for milk and they have none, do you leave there with a bad feeling towards the supermarket or the supplier? It ain' t the supplier...

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:23 am
by Eagleboy
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 65):
They did nothing but cancel flights(EI145 today as an example

I didnt know about that...a week to the day after the return of the route and they cancel a rotation......as 2/4 of their B757's were not serviceable......tthats not good at all.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:01 am
by RRTrent
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 65):
Bottom line here is that the general public don't know or care about who provides EI with aircraft or maintenance. They only see the cancelled flights and inconvenience for them. When you go to a supermarket for milk and they have none, do you leave there with a bad feeling towards the supermarket or the supplier? It ain' t the supplier...

Cancelling flights and inconveniencing a small number of passengers can often cost less than hiring in adhoc services when a new arrival should be imminent, infact it might point to the issues in SNN being unforseen and plan to have the 757 in service asap . I think both EI and AG are equally responsible simply because.

- AG were contracted to provide an aircraft for EI by x date. They didn't.

- EI were contracted to carry people using the plane to be provided by AG. They didn't.

At the end of the day, people will blame EI, because that's the logo they see.... but that doesn't free AG of responsibility. You give an analogy of milk and the supermarket... and yes, your feelings are towards to supermarket... but that doesn't free the supplier from blame, and no doubt AG have been hit financially because of this.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:46 am
by EIDL
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 65):
I understand the situation very well thank you. The service is provided by Aer Lingus and that is where the buck stops on this one. There are the ones who market, sell and make/lose money on the route(s). Of course they can't go into the hanger and take a plane but what have they done to fix the situation, seeing as they must have known for some time that the 757 was not ready for them? They did nothing but cancel flights(EI145 today as an example)I know the Irish threads have a very soft spot for EI but that should not mask the fact that they have made a complete mess of this. They are already stretched to capacity on TA routes and being down an aircraft at the start of Summer season is only magnified when another plane goes tech like EI-LBS did last night in IAD.(resulting in EI135 being cancelled today too)

This is not the first time that EI have messed up the start of the summer schedule for T/A flights. Their winter maintenance program of 2014/2015 overran and they ended up canceling flights again. And please don't tell me that is the fault of the people in Bordeaux.

Bottom line here is that the general public don't know or care about who provides EI with aircraft or maintenance. They only see the cancelled flights and inconvenience for them. When you go to a supermarket for milk and they have none, do you leave there with a bad feeling towards the supermarket or the supplier? It ain' t the supplier...

I'm able to apply perspective - it appears you aren't. So no, I don't get annoyed at the supermarket for a supplier cockup and I know that there realistically is no fix for it - they aren't going to change supplier for one issue nor do I expect them to go milk the cows themselves.

The problems last year were caused by seat supplier issues - issues affecting the entire industry, airlines all over the globe and impacting delivery from both major OEMs

The issues this time are the fault of AG.

Airlines hire in when unable to reaccommodate passengers - they're clearly able to reaccommodate them them currently

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:13 am
by OA260
Stobart Air boss resigns after bid rejected
Airline board’s rejection of buyout leads to second senior departure

Stobart Air chief executive Seán Brogan is leaving the company following the board’s rejection of his management buyout bid for the carrier, which operates the Aer Lingus Regional franchise.
The move comes in the wake of the sudden departure of the airline’s chairman, Tim Jeans, who was replaced by Andrew Tinkler, chief executive of the company’s biggest shareholder, the listed Stobart Group.
The carrier confirmed yesterday that Mr Brogan and the board have agreed that he will leave the company, which will now begin seeking a replacement.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...signs-after-bid-rejected-1.2644407

---


Ryanair personalised digital platform set for take-off
Airline seeking to become Amazon for travel with MyRyanair service

Ryanair is beginning a major push into digital with its new MyRyanair platform, seeking to become the Amazon for travel with the service.
The platform works as a personalisation engine for Ryanair customers, offering them the chance to create a personal profile with the site and app, storing payment and passport details securely, and getting suggestions from travel tips to hotel suggestions.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...latform-set-for-take-off-1.2644028

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:27 am
by 321neo
Quoting EIDL (Reply 68):
The issues this time are the fault of AG.

Is there any available evidence to support this statement?

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:14 pm
by 321neo
An Irish Examiner journalist is reporting that WX is cancelling ORK-LCY effective June 26th.

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/730745445929091073

Statement from ORK Management here: http://www.corkairport.com/news/deta...-decision-to-end-london-city-route

What went wrong here?
_____________________________

Chief executive Brogan to depart from Stobart Air
The chief executive of Stobart Air, Sean Brogan, is to leave the airline, ending his efforts to acquire the carrier through a €65m management buyout plan.

Stobart Air has been up for sale since last year, after shareholder Invesco signalled it wanted to exit.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...art-from-stobart-air-34706221.html



Interesting times ahead for both WX and RE.

[Edited 2016-05-12 06:16:51]

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:15 pm
by OA260
Quoting 321neo (Reply 71):
An Irish Examiner journalist is reporting that WX is cancelling ORK-LCY effective June 26th.

Yes its true there were rumors the other day but people were hoping it was just that.  

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:19 pm
by OA260
CityJet to axe Cork to London City route

CityJet is to discontinue its service from Cork to London City Airport from June 26.

The airline said that there was not enough demand for the service to make it commercially viable.

Pat Byrne, CityJet’s Executive Chairman said: "All the indicators suggested there would be strong support from both business and leisure communities, especially in view of the very significant convenience of City Airport due to its close proximity to the City of London and indeed the West End.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/...k-to-london-city-route-734997.html


So they could not generate the passenger numbers. Loads were often well under for such a route and they just could not break the cycle. Lots of reports of people loving it because there was loads of space ( empty seats ) which of course was a sign that all was not well.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:36 pm
by shamrock350
Quoting OA260 (Reply 73):

CityJet to axe Cork to London City route

Very disappointing, it was obvious after a few months that it wasn't going to get the support it needed. CityJet had a decent amount of marketing and fares were hardly astronomical so it was probably a combination of poor demand and the difficulty of tapping into the market against Aer Lingus and Ryanair.

How will Dusseldorf do for Aer Lingus I wonder?

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:46 pm
by OA260
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 74):
CityJet had a decent amount of marketing and fares

Indeed it must be said that WX did all they could to make it work. I was always seeing banners on websites and adverts for it so it was not due to lack of effort. Kudos to them for giving it a go. You never know what might happen in future so would not rule out coming back or different routes from ORK.

Another issue which keeps coming up is the tech issues on the WX fleet. I keep hearing about delays and in some instances cancellations. They are far from being in the same league as BE but the public do notice these things with social media these days.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:52 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting EIDL (Reply 68):
The problems last year were caused by seat supplier issues - issues affecting the entire industry, airlines all over the globe and impacting delivery from both major OEMs

The issues this time are the fault of AG.

Airlines hire in when unable to reaccommodate passengers - they're clearly able to reaccommodate them them currently

You are missing the point here. Nobody cares about AG or seat supply issues. I totally appreciate that some people (like the folks on here) will have knowledge of such issues and have interest in them. I am one of these people. However, in terms of providing a service to the consumer the fault is 100% with EI. They are accountable for this problem. This is the world we live in. If you order something online off Amazon, do you care who delivers it to your door? Not really. But it fails to get delivered are you going to hold Amazon or the courier service accountable? The responsibility would be on Amazon. Exact same for EI. Their service, their responsibility!

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:01 pm
by shamrock350
Quoting OA260 (Reply 75):
Another issue which keeps coming up is the tech issues on the WX fleet. I keep hearing about delays and in some instances cancellations.

Another minor issue has been a recent change in approach patterns to LCY, it appears to send aircraft on a tour around the Kent coast before heading back over Central London for that classic approach we all know and love. Some recent flight paths have sent aircraft from Cork as far south as Eastbourne and Hastings, then north towards Southend and finally down the Thames to LCY, adds on average about 20-30 minutes flying time on what should be a short hop!

Right now WX118 from DUB is on final approach has been in the air for an hour and a half, an Aer Lingus flight from DUB to LHR can be in the air for just 55 minutes usually, even with holds it very rarely reaches much more than an hour.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 75):
You never know what might happen in future so would not rule out coming back or different routes from ORK.

Well the summer charter services are still going ahead as planned so they'll be around ORK for a bit longer at least!

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:11 pm
by jrfspa320
I wonder if BA would consider ORK-LCY now with E-jets, with an EI codeshare, or even EIR with the ATR 72 and BA codeshare

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:17 pm
by EIDL
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 76):
You are missing the point here.

I'm really not. This is an avgeek forum and yet you're attempting to apportion blame without caring for the cause the way an angry customer at a checkin desk does.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:21 pm
by OA260
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 77):
then north towards Southend and finally down the Thames to LCY, adds on average about 20-30 minutes flying time on what should be a short hop!

Yes that happened to me actually the last time I flew them into LCY. I did not mind so much as was a nice clear day and some good views  

On another note it seems that some of the SK A321 are being changed to A319 over the Summer on the DUB-CPH route. I dont think we need to read too much into that but still thought I would highlight the change.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:33 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting EIDL (Reply 79):

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 76):
You are missing the point here.

I'm really not. This is an avgeek forum and yet you're attempting to apportion blame without caring for the cause the way an angry customer at a checkin desk does.

You are completely missing that point if you think that this being an avgeek forum shifts the blame away from EI. Seriously? Avgeek forums don't run airline businesses thankfully. Again the cause is not important to the majority of commercial flyers. In the real world, EI are 100% to blame. If in the avgeek world they are not, then that is fine by me too. I have no issue with that and I appreciate your point of view. However given that I spent at least 2 days a week in a plane, I like to deal with the real world when faced with such incompetence from an airline.(not just EI btw)

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:38 pm
by 321neo
Quoting EIDL (Reply 79):
I'm really not. This is an avgeek forum and yet you're attempting to apportion blame without caring for the cause the way an angry customer at a checkin desk does.

And you are apportioning the blame on AG without reference to any evidence indicating that that is the case.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 68):
The issues this time are the fault of AG.

For the second time, is there any available evidence to support this statement?

[Edited 2016-05-12 07:41:38]

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:54 pm
by RRTrent
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 81):
In the real world, EI are 100% to blame.

In the world of the angry customer EI are 100% to blame.

However; In the real world, as the service provider EI shoulders the blame, although is not fully responsible.

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 81):
I spent at least 2 days a week in a plane, I like to deal with the real world when faced with such incompetence from an airline.(

This may be so, but I dont know how it's make you any more qualified to place blame?

Fact is we don't actually know who's at fault. Your saying its all EI's fault, which is likely not the case. Some say its AG's fault, which is more likely. In reality, we don't know and are purely speculating.... unknowing passengers in T2 will blame EI yes, but remember the difference between who gets blames, who takes the blame and who actually is to blame. its called root cause.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:12 pm
by shamrock350
Quoting 321neo (Reply 82):
For the second time, is there any available evidence to support this statement?

Who else has had the aircraft since November?

The delay doesn't surprise me, the aircraft is an oddball compared to the current 757 fleet as it's a RR powered frame and didn't have any winglets. Within a few weeks of it's arrival at SNN it received a new coat of paint, winglets and had its engines removed but they weren't refitted until about a month ago and a lack of any test flights is worrying at this stage.

Here's the latest photo, engines fitted by mid April but still a lot of work to do.

http://flic.kr/p/GhzXGq

I can understand some posters blame on Aer Lingus, in the eyes of the customer it's their fault and that is of course true but anyone with a tiny bit of knowledge will know it goes a lot deeper than that. It's obvious Aer Lingus could have hired in a last minute aircraft to operate the routes and avoid any disruption but cost is a huge factor, management would have to weigh up the options, and despite what a few posters on here would like us to believe, these people aren't amateurs!

Aer Lingus may have never recovered the cost of hiring in an aircraft for an indefinite amount of time for what is a very small transatlantic business at Shannon. Yes we all obsess about brand damage and it does play a part but the general public have very short memories and in the long run it's a safer option than incurring massive cost that could result in the entire summer operation at Shannon being loss making. It's apparently now affected DUB too with LAX cancelled on one day, if it continues to impact higher yielding DUB operations the hiring of an aircraft may be revisited but until then Aer Lingus will be able to live with minimal brand damage from the minuscule amount of passengers affected.

It's not personal, it's business.  

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:10 pm
by irishair98
Sad to see Cityjet discontinue after only 8 months of service, the airline stated its because the demand they expected did not materialise

http://theliberal.ie/cityjet-announc...fter-only-eight-months-of-service/

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:22 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting RRTrent (Reply 83):
This may be so, but I dont know how it's make you any more qualified to place blame?

Fact is we don't actually know who's at fault. Your saying its all EI's fault, which is likely not the case. Some say its AG's fault, which is more likely. In reality, we don't know and are purely speculating.... unknowing passengers in T2 will blame EI yes, but remember the difference between who gets blames, who takes the blame and who actually is to blame. its called root cause.

Never said it made me more qualified. What I said is that I deal in the real world and not in the avgeek world with regards to such matters. As I said earlier, the buck stops with EI on this. Nothing is going to change that. Not suppliers, not aircraft companies and certainly not the opinion of people on A.net.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:23 pm
by dstc47
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 84):
these people aren't amateurs!

True, and anyone can be unlucky.
However there have been previous incidents of stretching the transatlantic fleet a bit too thin in past years which might have been factored in.

Regarding Cityjet, it is rather hard to see any outsider making ORK a successful base other than tweedldum and tweeldee.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:26 pm
by tonystan
Shame about the WX ORK flights.

It's does make me wonder however if BA Cityflyer launched on the route with perhaps 2-3 flights a day operated in conjunction with EI would it fair better? Economies of scale etc?

What does one think?

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:32 pm
by teahan
Quoting irishair98 (Reply 85):
Sad to see Cityjet discontinue after only 8 months of service, the airline stated its because the demand they expected did not materialise

Sad news but not a surprise.  

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:45 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 84):
I can understand some posters blame on Aer Lingus, in the eyes of the customer it's their fault and that is of course true but anyone with a tiny bit of knowledge will know it goes a lot deeper than that. It's obvious Aer Lingus could have hired in a last minute aircraft to operate the routes and avoid any disruption but cost is a huge factor, management would have to weigh up the options, and despite what a few posters on here would like us to believe, these people aren't amateurs!

Aren't amateurs? Very debatable at times to be fair  

I agree hiring in last minute is most likely too costly but in fairness their planning is off as they have known for some time the aircraft would not be ready.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:47 pm
by tonystan
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 90):

Aren't amateurs? Very debatable at times to be fair

I agree hiring in last minute is most likely too costly but in fairness their planning is off as they have known for some time the aircraft would not be ready.

Have they though? When was it announced officially that the aircraft would be unavailable? Have the airline been preplanning a scheduled cancellation of the service and rebooking customers in advance onto other flights?

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:53 pm
by VFRonTop
Quoting teahan (Reply 89):

Real shame. I'll miss these flights, very convenient for me when visiting my family.  

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:05 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting tonystan (Reply 91):

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 90):

Aren't amateurs? Very debatable at times to be fair

I agree hiring in last minute is most likely too costly but in fairness their planning is off as they have known for some time the aircraft would not be ready.

Have they though? When was it announced officially that the aircraft would be unavailable? Have the airline been preplanning a scheduled cancellation of the service and rebooking customers in advance onto other flights?

Not sure how long they have known it. However I knew a month ago it wasn't going to be ready. EI engineer at SNN told me on one of my trips home in late March.(he is married to my next door neighbor and I think he hates when I ping him for info   )
Funny enough EI hired in a Titan aircraft today to operate 135/134.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:16 pm
by tonystan
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 93):

LOL Sadly I always think the Dublin operation will receive better treatment in the event of a cancellation than the SNN one.
Poor cousin and all of that.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:45 pm
by Eagleboy
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 90):
I agree hiring in last minute is most likely too costly but in fairness their planning is off as they have known for some time the aircraft would not be ready.
Quoting EIBoston (Reply 93):
However I knew a month ago it wasn't going to be ready. EI engineer at SNN told me on one of my trips home in late March.

If this is correct then I would have expected a hire-in plan to have been in place. I can undersatnd the disruption EI were informed of its lack of serviceability in the days leading up to its introduction to the operation.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 94):
LOL Sadly I always think the Dublin operation will receive better treatment in the event of a cancellation than the SNN one.

Its the nature of being the higher revenue earner.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:49 pm
by EIBoston
Quoting tonystan (Reply 94):
LOL Sadly I always think the Dublin operation will receive better treatment in the event of a cancellation than the SNN one.
Poor cousin and all of that.

$$$$

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:46 pm
by Eirules
With the restart of the AA service from ORD & the introduction of the A330 on the route this year, it appears the aircraft is flying a W pattern CLT-DUB-ORD-DUB-CLT. I wonder once EI are part of oneworld & the j/v will ORD be dropped by AA or more likely will they go year round & EI drop a rotation in winter

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:20 pm
by BrianDromey
Quoting tonystan (Reply 88):
It's does make me wonder however if BA Cityflyer launched on the route with perhaps 2-3 flights a day operated in conjunction with EI would it fair better? Economies of scale etc?

I don't know. I think the with the EI brand or even the BA brand it would probably do better, but the issue is that it would probably dilute yields significantly at LHR. EI (BACityflyer) and FR want to keep the cozy duoploy to themselves. The last challengers on the London routes was easyJet. That didn't last long either.

RE: Irish Aviation Thread 7/16

Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:39 pm
by OA260
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 98):
I don't know. I think the with the EI brand or even the BA brand it would probably do better, but the issue is that it would probably dilute yields significantly at LHR

I feel it would do a lot better and a big part of why is the OW Alliance and the FF membership base that BA have. Also once EI launch Aer Club with partner deals within IAG and selected OW carriers this loyalty and business will only increase. Then in 2017 when full OW integration is achieved then it will add even more benefits. Sadly WX has a certain corporate following but lacks any alliance or FF although I am told this is on the cards.

With regards dilute of yields we have seen this at DUB on the LHR route as many business travellers switch to LCY. One just has to fly on the DUB-LCY routes morning back evening to see the type of business they are getting. Of course LHR gets alot of business too and most of the transit traffic so was easier to adjust but ORK being much smaller might not sustain both.

Just like we have not seen a ME3 opt to BFS due to fears of the effect on DUB yields some cities have their limits and airlines will protect their key operations.